LOIS-BUJOLD Digest 4271 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: OT: USAian??? by Margaret Dean 2) Re: OT: Which side are you on, boys (and grrls) by Mark Atwood 3) Re: OT: Elective franchise by James and Mary Burbidge 4) Re: OT: Welcome by "Edana ni Emer" 5) Re: OT: USAian??? by lesley k 6) Re: FILK: Bujold songs on CD by "Rob 'Autographed Cat' Wynne" 7) Re: collateral damage by Julia Blackshear Kosatka 8) Re: OT: Which side are you on, boys (and grrls) by David Samson 9) Re: OT: Elective franchise by TheOTThug-+AT+-aol.com 10) Re: collateral damage by Mark Atwood 11) Re: OT: Hugo Noms by Ase 12) Re: OT: Which side are you on, boys (and grrls) by TheOTThug-+AT+-aol.com 13) Re: collateral damage by "D Echelbarger" 14) Re: Which side are you on, boys (and grrls) by "Maxim Poddoubnyi" 15) Re: OT: random celebratory post by Kevin Kennedy 16) Re: Selling Narnia by "Ello" 17) Re: OT: medical economics by Peter Newman 18) Re: OT: USAian??? by Jafath2-+AT+-aol.com 19) Re: Alys' job by Jafath2-+AT+-aol.com 20) Re: OT: breeding elephants, was, animals on Barrayar by Kevin Kennedy 21) Re: Miles v. lucky characters [OT:] by Peter Newman 22) Re: That little syllable by Peter Newman 23) OT: Converts quote by House of Unruly Fish 24) Re: collateral damage by Peter Newman 25) Re: OT: Which side are you on, boys (and grrls) by Mark Atwood 26) Re: OT: Elective franchise by Marci DeLeon 27) Re: That little syllable by "Eric Oppen" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 21:40:25 -0400 From: Margaret Dean To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: USAian??? Message-ID: <3B1EDB89.6D4B0342-+AT+-erols.com> "Peter H. Granzeau" wrote: > As for me, I am a currently citizen of Virginia, although I am by birth a > New Yorker, and have been a voting citizen of Wisconsin, North Carolina, > and Pennsylvania. > > By the way, two of those named places in the preceding paragraph are not > states. Do you know which ones? I know that Pennsylvania is a "Commonwealth" because I used to live there. You have me stumped on the other one. --Margaret Dean ------------------------------ Date: 06 Jun 2001 19:32:20 -0700 From: Mark Atwood To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Cc: mra-+AT+-pobox.com Subject: Re: OT: Which side are you on, boys (and grrls) Message-ID: Marna Nightingale writes: > As long as politics keep coming up... > > http://www.politicalcompass.org/ I'm impressed. Someone's actually come up with a set of questions that are *more* leading then those of an "active pollster" or of HCI! -- Mark Atwood | I'm wearing black only until I find something darker. mra-+AT+-pobox.com | http://www.pobox.com/~mra ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 22:08:14 -0400 From: James and Mary Burbidge To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: Elective franchise Message-ID: <3B1EE20E.FC556D54-+AT+-sympatico.ca> Evian Delacourt wrote: > > Well, OK, as far as that particular phrase is concerned, you're probably correct. But IIRC from my Old English classes (that's Beowulf Anglo-Saxon English, mind, not the Middle English of Chaucer's day or the Early Modern English of Shakespeare), the word "man" originally meant [hu]man, just as Pete (?--I think?) said earlier. "Woman" was the "wif-man", and there was a similar term (which I've unfortunately forgotten) for a male man. (Heaven only knows what they called the mailman. ) I don't have my textbooks handy, but I'd be glad to dig them up and hunt for that male equivalent, if/when time permits, if anyone is interested. (Or I could just take the lazy way out and call my professor. ;-D) So it's a case of the interpretation of the word changing over time, not a case of the word "man" being non-inclusive of women in and of itself, since originally it *was* the inclusive form. > > And in my mind it would be *so* much easier and more sensible if we could go back to using "man" as the inclusive form, and "woman" and "?-man" as the gender-specific forms, rather than having to use the very unwieldy "men and women" each and every time we want to specifically include both genders. *sigh* Lost battle. I'm more than sympathetic to the retention of the early (Old Germanic) use of "man" -- its original use etymologically; the root meaning seems to be something like "a thinking being" -- which was retained into the early twentieth century. But the fact that English discarded the other native alternatives for "human male" (wer, guma (whence brida-guma, wedding-man -> bridegroom), etc.) in the mediaeval period has made the assimilation to the (also pre-OE) secondary meaning of "human male" almost inescapable. I am in favour of retaining it it texts where it was originally used, if necessary clarifying where the meaning is or has become unclear. For new compositions, it is usually better to avoid it. (There are better ways of avoiding it than just substituting "person", though. The very old method of metonymy for certain positions means that we can use "chair" rather than the misbegotten cross-breed (Germanic-Latin) "chairperson"; we can say "maker and judge of all" rather than "maker of all things, judge of all people" (which ruins the rhythm). I tend as a whole to support the idea that where people will mistake uses that they should be taught the proper use to improve the range of their discrimination rather than cravenly caving in to the LCD; and thus, for example, will explain to anyone who needs it, at length, the roots of "history" (Greek _histemi_). But the "man" vs. "human" or "person" is a fully lost battle, too clouded with emotion now for a purely philological (in both senses) fervour to prevail. -- James Burbidge jamesandmary.burbidge-+AT+-sympatico.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:30:12 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Edana ni Emer" To: Subject: Re: OT: Welcome Message-ID: <3B1EE734.000005.13895-+AT+-6pd1601> --------------Boundary-00=_CAGJ6RO0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -------Original Message------- From: Christine L. Forber Date: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 09:23:57 PM To: edana_ni_emer-+AT+-yahoo.com Subject: OT: Welcome >Edana ni Emer >(who is getting her feet wet on the list for the first time) Welcome. And many more postings to come I hope. Thank you. I was starting to wonder if anyone had *read* what I poste= d. It seemed to have been met by an echoing silence.... :-) Love, Luck, and Laughter Edana ni Emer --------------Boundary-00=_CAGJ6RO0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: Christine L. Forber
Date: Wednes= day, June=20 06, 2001 09:23:57 PM
To: edana_ni_emer-+AT+-yahoo.com=
Subject: OT:= =20 Welcome
 

>Edana ni Emer
>(who is getting her feet wet on the lis= t for=20 the first time)

Welcome. And many more postings to come I ho= pe.

 

Thank you. <G> I was starting to wonder if anyone had *rea= d* what=20 I posted. It seemed to have been met by an echoing silence.... :-)<= /P>

Love, Luck, and Laughter

Edana ni Emer

=09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09 =09
_________________________________________________
IncrediMail - Email has finally= =20 evolved -
Click=20 Here
--------------Boundary-00=_CAGJ6RO0000000000000-- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 19:32:55 -0700 (PDT) From: lesley k To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: USAian??? Message-ID: <20010607023255.35032.qmail-+AT+-web14501.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Peter H. Granzeau" wrote: > > As for me, I am a currently citizen of > Virginia, although I am by birth a > New Yorker, and have been a voting citizen of > Wisconsin, North Carolina, > and Pennsylvania. > > By the way, two of those named places in the > preceding paragraph are not > states. Do you know which ones? > -- Well, Virginia is a commonwealth. Is Penn the other? ===== -- lesley knieriem "Our universe is simply one of those things which happen from time to time." -- Edward Tryon, quoted by Martin Gardnerin DID ADAM AND EVE HAVE NAVELS? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 22:34:11 -0400 From: "Rob 'Autographed Cat' Wynne" To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: FILK: Bujold songs on CD Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010606223250.03c09790-+AT+-america.net> Well, while we're doing shameless plugs: Echo's Children will be the Guests of Honor at GaFilk 2002, January 11-13, 2002 in Atlanta, GA. See http://www.gafilk.org/ for more details. Rob At 03:57 AM 6/6/01, you wrote: >/Begin Shameless Plug >For those of you in the Portland Oregon area, the Portland Science Fiction >Society is hosting a CD Release party for Echo's Children's new CD :) If >you haven't already bought one, or have, but want it signed or something, >come on over :) > >It's Room 329, Smith Hall, PSU (Portland State University--downtown >Portland) at 2pm Saturday, June 9th. Parking's a bit tricky as it's the >same day as the Grand Floral Parade, but I hope as many of you as can, >come! > >Arlene 'Callie' Hills wrote: > > > For those of you who may be interested, I wanted to let you know > > that Echo's Children's new CD, "A Dancing World", which contains > > 72 minutes of music including 3 songs set in the Vorkosiverse (and, > > for the Weber-philes on the list, three songs set in the Honorverse > > as well), is now available. Information on obtaining the CD can > > be had via email to me (callie-+AT+-twig.com) or by checking out our > > website, which has a picture of the cover art, as well as the list > > of tracks. > > > > The Bujold songs are: > > Alys' Lullabye > > How It Is Applied (a song from Taura's POV) > > Butterbug Blues (contains minor spoilers for A Civil Campaign) > > > > Thanks again to Herself (and Baen Books) for their gracious permission > > in allowing us to publish these songs. > > > > Callie Hills, for Echo's Children > > website: http://www.teleport.com/~cat/EC_Home_Page.html > > > > (now, back to lurking...) -- Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / doc-+AT+-america.net The best original science-fiction and fantasy on the web: Aphelion Webzine: http://www.aphelion-webzine.com/ Gafilk 2002: Jan 11-13, 2002, Atlanta, GA -- http://www.gafilk.org "I've often said that the difference between British and American SF TV series is that the British ones have three-dimensional characters and cardboard spaceships, while the Americans do it the other way around." --Ross Smith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:40:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Julia Blackshear Kosatka To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: collateral damage Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, Lois McMaster Bujold wrote: > > I'd start it with Sergeant Bothari, myself. Major Daum... the > unnamed fellow who shields Miles's body with his own in _The Vor > Game_... etc. etc. There's the tortured jump pilot in WA. For that matter, everyone who died in the various battles in WA could be considered Miles' doing. It's been a while, but didn't he feel that Tien's death was his fault? -- Julia Blackshear Kosatka -- www.io.com/~julia "Bones of the Dead" - Coming in June 2001 in BLACK GATE BLACK GATE: Adventures in Fantasy - www.blackgate.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 19:41:21 -0700 From: David Samson To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: Which side are you on, boys (and grrls) Message-ID: <3B1EE9D1.9037804A-+AT+-worldnet.att.net> > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Marna Nightingale wrote: > > > As long as politics keep coming up... > > > > http://www.politicalcompass.org/ > > I'm a Libertarian Leftist. :-) > > > Economic Left/Right: -2.04 > Authoritarian/Libertarian: -4.08 David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:49:11 EDT From: TheOTThug-+AT+-aol.com To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: Elective franchise Message-ID: <50.16cf1238.285045a7-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 6/6/01 4:41:41 PM Central Daylight Time, altpouncer-+AT+-yahoo.com writes: << If you take a hungry dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. That is the principle difference between a dog and an adult human. >> Ttch, no. If you take a hungry animal of genus canus and make IT prosperous, IT will not bite you. That is the principal difference between a canid and an adult human. Jeff Parker ------------------------------ Date: 06 Jun 2001 19:59:48 -0700 From: Mark Atwood To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Cc: mra-+AT+-pobox.com Subject: Re: collateral damage Message-ID: "Lois McMaster Bujold" writes: > > Somewhere upthread, when I mentioned the high costs of Miles's ambitions > to the people around him, the only character Mark Atwood could think of was > Sgt. Beatrice from "The Borders of Infinity". > > I think the list is a *lot* longer than that. ("Butchered, to make a > fannish holiday...") Given his performance numbers, his "body count" is amazingly *low*. Bothari, I'll grant. Grudgingly, because he was basically already a walking dead man. Pretty much everyone else who died in his vicinity, would be dead *ANYWAY*, and many more people would besides as well, if it was anybody else with a lower or less energetic "drive for perfection". I was under the impression that the DFM had no trouble finding recruits, in part because their "active personnel loss rate per action" was lower than the competion's. Miles is not Saint Honor Harrington. (And I begrudge HH's "body count" detractors as well, as they were all situations where if she hadn't been there, *EVERYBODY* would be dead, instead of "almost everybody"). -- Mark Atwood | I'm wearing black only until I find something darker. mra-+AT+-pobox.com | http://www.pobox.com/~mra ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 23:03:31 -0400 From: Ase To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: Hugo Noms Message-ID: <3B1EEF02.4FD9FBBF-+AT+-wdn.com> Mary Louise Klecha wrote: > Hugo Nominations are up at www.milphil.org > > Novels nominated are: I've only read two of the novels nominated this year- *A Storm of Swords* and the Harry Potter book. ASoS was pretty good, but I got annoyed with the number of times George Martin pulled the "they're dead- not!" trick. Offhand, I can recall three times that it happened in ASoS. Grrr. Interesting worldbuilding, and potential plotlines for everyone except Jon Snow continue to intrigue me. (Though I do wish Sansa would stop being such a pawn. I guess my problem is that I'm expecting her to grow up to be Ari Emory, which probably won't happen. *Sigh*.) The Harry Potter book was bulky, but perhaps my favorite in the series to date. There were parts that were *dark*. And it doesn't feel *nearly* as Dahl-esqe as the first book does. To me, at least. As always, YMMV. The other three- well, I've got some time. And I hear Ken McLeod is supposed to be doing some interesting stuff... Ase(Recently read: Tales From Earthsea, all four of Kage Baker's Company novels, with a little Patrick O'Brian on the side, as well as The Wizard's Dilemma. Yum. *S*) <*> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 23:06:19 EDT From: TheOTThug-+AT+-aol.com To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: Which side are you on, boys (and grrls) Message-ID: In a message dated 6/6/01 5:10:11 PM Central Daylight Time, marna-+AT+-sympatico.ca writes: << http://www.politicalcompass.org/ >> Well, I am slightly right and libertarian, but I objected to a large number of those questions. For example, "If globalisation is inevitable, it should serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations." If globalisation is inevitable, it should serve globalization. It is not a human rights thing or a corporate thing. Or "Class background determines peoples' consciousness more than their membership of a particular nation." What is people's consciousness? This is a null statement. Grumph. Jeff Parker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:17:16 -0500 From: "D Echelbarger" To: Subject: Re: collateral damage Message-ID: <002a01c0ef00$5b3f7de0$d7c1cfa9-+AT+-lordpeter> Lois said: > I'd start it with Sergeant Bothari, myself. Major Daum... the unnamed > fellow who shields Miles's body with his own in _The Vor Game_... etc. etc. I'd say the *first* documented person to die for Miles' ambition is the nameless jump-pilot Bothari killed in WA. Then there's Sgt. Murta and all the other Dendarii casualties from the Dagoola affair, the ones who died stopping the assassins the Cetas sent after "Admiral Naismith", and basically every Dendarii who died on a Barrayaran-funded mission. I'd guess that'd put his tally in the high-double-digits right there.... Diane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 23:05:23 -0400 From: "Maxim Poddoubnyi" To: Subject: Re: Which side are you on, boys (and grrls) Message-ID: <011201c0eefe$b2752760$dd67c040-+AT+-oemcomputer> Interesting... Economic Left/Right: -0.82 Authoritarian/Libertarian: -4.92 But who on Earth is Simon Hughes? And I though I knew British politics.... Max - the former UK resident > As long as politics keep coming up... > > http://www.politicalcompass.org/ > > Marna. > -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 22:11:12 -0500 From: Kevin Kennedy To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: random celebratory post Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010606220937.0222f4e0-+AT+-mail.winstarmail.com> At 07:32 PM 6/6/01 +0100, you wrote: >Ireland is leading Estonia by 1. > >If you have to ask at what, you probably don't care :-) > >Marna. > >Quidditch? Can you tell I'm not a sports fan? Kevin K. So Many Books, So Little Time ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 22:30:52 -0500 From: "Ello" To: Subject: Re: Selling Narnia Message-ID: <002e01c0ef02$43922c40$258a80d1-+AT+-oemcomputer> Catherine O'Shea says > I find this profoundly disturbing. > > http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/2001/06/06/FFX8LAZJKNC.html > OK, plush toys are really not that bad an idea. Let it be known that we had a stuffed lion around the house when I was a kid called Aslon. And as fans we know that there are always corners in a universe that can be brought to light with a little judicial fanfic. After all, _The Horse and His Boy_ falls in this catagory - the story of a peripheral character in a peripheral action that is still a joy to read. HarperCollins is just going to do this professionally, as has been done in Star Trek and Star Wars. It's beside the point that I enjoy most fan fanfic more than most professional (except Diane Duane's, of course). What _is_ disturbing is the hint that HarperCollins will phase out a cornerstone of the Narnia universe. We can discuss whether it is explicitely Christian or a variation on _The Golden Bough_ mythos, but symbolism is the organizing principle of all 7 books. Taking that out will be like having soda without the carbination - and warm soda at that. Ello, who is now inspired to pull out her set, for refreshment of the soul. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 19:30:11 -0800 From: Peter Newman To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: medical economics Message-ID: <3B1EF542.1248B646-+AT+-gci.net> Marna Nightingale wrote > And, unfortunately, reparation in this case doesn't work as well as prevention. > Nor is it as cheap; here in Ottawa, we're looking at several million dollars to > clean up LeBreton Flats, which was an industrial site 50 years ago. We can't > charge the companies at this point; most of them are gone. > Ditto with waterways; I don't forsee ever being able to drink untreated water > from a river again, anywhere around here, and the smaller lakes are dead or > dying. > We need A Better Idea. What it is, I know not. How about familial personal responsibility? You are financially responsible for the actions of your ancestors. If you are ever a stockholder in a corporation you are responsible (proportionate to your ownership) to whatever they did then. Thus if Count Piotr's guerilla forces used some fetaine to kill Cetagandans eighty years ago than Aral has to pay for the Superfund cleanup of the area. However since Piotr was acting for his Emperor than Aral's off the hook and Gregor is on the hook for the debt. If you can inherit wealth from an ancestor why can't [1] you inherit debts from an ancestor. If you lived in a house paid for by pollution do you have a obligation to fix that pollution? [1] Morally, not legally, I'm sure this would probably be considered a bill of attainder and would thus be unconstitutional in the USA. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 23:33:05 EDT From: Jafath2-+AT+-aol.com To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: USAian??? Message-ID: In a message dated 01-06-06 21:54:01 EDT, you write: << By the way, two of those named places in the preceding paragraph are not states. Do you know which ones? >> I believe New York and Pennsylvania are "Commonwealths". But then, I had the idea that Virginia was one, too, so maybe that's not what you meant. Jo Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 23:33:04 EDT From: Jafath2-+AT+-aol.com To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alys' job Message-ID: <41.c62faff.28504ff0-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 01-06-05 22:45:26 EDT, you write: << It would be interesting to know how she actually got the job in the first place, perhaps as a natural flow-on from being Gregor's official hostess. >> I always assumed that (a) When Gregor grew up enough to need an official hostess, the natural candidate was Cordelia; who (b) flatly refused. She would then (c) recommend a replacement, who but Alys who (if she could get even Cordelia properly groomed and placed for official functions) obviously had a gift for such things (and all of the Vorkosigans have this gift for choosing people . . .) . (d) As Gregor outgrew the need for a social nanny, at the same time he'd start to need a social secretary-type-person. (e) And there she was. Jo Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 22:33:39 -0500 From: Kevin Kennedy To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: breeding elephants, was, animals on Barrayar Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010606222901.0225a1b0-+AT+-mail.winstarmail.com> > > >>snip > >> > >>According to _Guns Germs and Steel,_ elephants are not truly domesticable, > >>as in "breed in captivity," but must be captured from the wild. > > > >It's being worked on. The Indianapolis Zoo has two yearling elephants that > >are the result of artificial insemination. One female, one male. > >Cute, too. You should see the giraffes next door, as well. Born on >the same day to a mother and daughter. They had thought that new, >young male wasn't old enough, but apparently, he was. Yep. I remember hearing what a surprise this was to the zoo staff. Apparently, papa giraffe had been a busy four year old, and they weren't expecting him to notice girls until he was eight. Kevin K. So Many Books, So Little Time ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 19:45:31 -0800 From: Peter Newman To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Miles v. lucky characters [OT:] Message-ID: <3B1EF8D9.2F5CFDD2-+AT+-gci.net> Christine L. Forber" wrote > I find it hard to believe that you could find any book that somebody on this > list hasn't read!! Define 'book', please. I'm quite certain that none of you have read, or will ever read, the 00-01 Anchorage Alaska phone book that came out last week. If you mean 'real' books, how about 'Elements of Internal-Combustion Engines', Rogowski, 1953, McGraw Hill or 'Bamaland and other paranoid fantasies' Guthrie, 1987, Walt Guthrie or 'Uniform Rules Alaska State legislature, Legislative Affairs Agency, 1989, Alaska Legislative Affairs Agency Anyone read any of these? To name three books I grabbed in less than one minute, only one of which I've read myself. I'm sure there are many other books none of has read, even if we limit the list to books in English. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 19:52:35 -0800 From: Peter Newman To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: That little syllable Message-ID: <3B1EFA81.82EBF3EE-+AT+-gci.net> Julia Blackshear Kosatka wrote > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Pat wrote: > > The problem comes in if & when Barrayar goes over to listing & > > registration alphabetically by last name. IMO they can either (1) strip > > off the "Vor" and list them by true last name (Barra, Kosigan, Patril) or > Remember, at the beginning of WA, Miles gets called 'Kosigan' because they > don't use the honorific in the academy. Yes, they do use the honorific at the academy. Test evidence: The Warriors Apprentice Epilog [Young Miles p 258] [Miles is in the middle of saving himself and Kostolitz from a simulated death.] "Thank you, Cadet Vorkosigan," said the instructor [as Miles passes him an IV full of air] They don't use the honorific during the _entrance_exam_, but they do use it at the academy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 22:11:22 -0600 From: House of Unruly Fish To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: OT: Converts quote Message-ID: <3.0.32.20010606221118.006d3504-+AT+-mail.so.centurytel.net> Saw this and had to share! * People have a peculiar pleasure in making converts, that is, in causing others to enjoy what they enjoy, thus finding their own likeness represented and reflected back to them. --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832) * Fwd by Susan the Neon Nurse ++++++++++++++++++++++carosue-+AT+-centurytel.net+++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 20:34:42 -0800 From: Peter Newman To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: collateral damage Message-ID: <3B1F045E.E5B4E657-+AT+-gci.net> "Lois McMaster Bujold" wrote >Somewhere upthread, when I mentioned the high costs of Miles's ambitions > to the people around him, the only character Mark Atwood could think of was > Sgt. Beatrice from "The Borders of Infinity". > > I think the list is a *lot* longer than that. > I'd start it with Sergeant Bothari, myself. Major Daum... the unnamed > fellow who shields Miles's body with his own in _The Vor Game_... etc. etc. > > As an idle group-mind activity, anyone want to join in totting up > Miles's body count? By book, or in alphabetical or numerical order, or > whatever, I leave it to you. Do fetal 'ambitions' of being alive one day count? If so the list should probably start with Vordarian, or even the Vorhalos boy. ------------------------------ Date: 06 Jun 2001 21:43:00 -0700 From: Mark Atwood To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Cc: mra-+AT+-pobox.com Subject: Re: OT: Which side are you on, boys (and grrls) Message-ID: David Samson writes: > > On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Marna Nightingale wrote: > > > > > As long as politics keep coming up... > > > > > > http://www.politicalcompass.org/ > > > > I'm a Libertarian Leftist. :-) > > > > > Economic Left/Right: -2.04 > > Authoritarian/Libertarian: -4.08 Economic Left/Right: 3.06 Authoritarian/Libertarian: -1.52 I suspect that the designers of the test had a different working definition of a libertarian outlook than I do. The phrase "ultimate free marketeer, General Pinochet" made me choke. Chile under him was moved towards free markets yes, until it was just left of, say, contemporary Germany. And what the h*ll kind of statement is "Wars and social chaos may well be ended by a catastrophic flood or earthquake."? And how does my opinion of astrology have anything to do with my political leanings. Is this some wierd UK thing that I've never heard of before? And are their any people remaining (I almost said "left") who would push "agree" or "strongly agree" for the "one-party state" question? -- Mark Atwood | I'm wearing black only until I find something darker. mra-+AT+-pobox.com | http://www.pobox.com/~mra ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:42:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Marci DeLeon To: lois-bujold-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: Elective franchise Message-ID: <20010607044249.9858.qmail-+AT+-web13308.mail.yahoo.com> --- POUNCER wrote: > Lois McMaster Bujold wrote: It's a small correction, compared to the scope of the problem. But it's one everyone can easily participate in. > And Pouncer, ever the emailer writes: Just a usage question, then... As Marna sugests, when she means compentent mature persons of our species she says so... So when we refer to an established phrase from a sexist place and time, should we correct it? Frex: Adult humans are born to trouble, as the sparks fly upwards. ...etc. I mean, that's what I usually _mean_. Is this correction the best way to convey that? Or are we stuck with no best way? > IMHO, repalce "adult humans" with people/person. Simpler and just as correct. -Marci, on the soapbox again. WLW! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 00:00:06 -0500 From: "Eric Oppen" To: Subject: Re: That little syllable Message-ID: <00f601c0ef0e$b8e26800$8ac71bce-+AT+-hppav> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:44 PM Subject: That little syllable > > Whatever Lois was thinking to name all the aristocrats - sorry, warrior > caste - with a single syllable at the front of their names, it has long, > deep roots in European history. Gavin de Becker. Lancelot du Lac. > Rembrandt van Rijn. Slight correction...I was reading about the early days of American colonization (here in the US) and came across an interesting tidbit. The "van" that a lot of Knickerbocker (Dutch New Yorker) aristocrats were so proud of in their names was actually a sign of _lower-class_ origins in the Netherlands themselves. If you were Somebody, you had a _real_ surname. If you were Joe Wooden-Shoed Peasant, you were Jan van Somewhere. Nasty nineteenth-century joke: The "van" was on the highest and lowest levels of the American social scale. At the top, it was _before_ the name, as in Van Renneslaer...at the bottom, it was at the _end_ of the name, as in Sullivan, Donovan et al. > The problem comes in if & when Barrayar goes over to listing & > registration alphabetically by last name. IMO they can either (1) strip > off the "Vor" and list them by true last name (Barra, Kosigan, Patril) or > (2) make a separate category for names beginning in "Vor" just as America > does for "Mc" (not that many des, dus, vans, and vons in America, but Mcs, > Macs, and O's we have.) or (3) not list people alphabetically by last name > at all, but go to some other method. The second method sounds likeliest to me. I could see the Vorbarr Sultana equivalent of the phone book having separate listings for the Vor and the proles, if only to make it easier to find, say, Raphael Vorheavensake without having to wade through the other "V" listings. It might also be a slight sign of social cachet. ------------------------------ End of LOIS-BUJOLD Digest 4271 ******************************