MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2308 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Darkwind by "Barbara Martin" 2) Re: Darkwind by PunkadeIik-+AT+-aol.com 3) DARKWIND by Songjewel 4) Re: Darkwind by winged_wolf-+AT+-juno.com 5) Re: Darkwind by Songjewel 6) ML: Religion in Velgarth by moonshadow-+AT+-startrekmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:45:21 +0100 From: "Barbara Martin" To: Subject: Re: Darkwind Message-ID: <00c701bfc800$72c60b00$98db2cc3-+AT+-master> > >From: "Barbara Martin" > > How come Darkwind never got Chosen? > Ellevaranachai Shay'Nara'Val wrote: > I think it had something to do with the fact that he was already bonded to > Vree. Ah, but wasn't he considering bonding to another bird at one point? Or am I confused? I mean as well as Vree, not instead. Must read books again (damn, what a shame...;-) ) No, I don't see why having a bondbird precludes bonding to a Companion. I've always perceived the bondbirds as less intelligent than Companions. While Firecats and Companions are reincarnated humans (is that generally accepted now?), the bondbirds are simply raptors and owls or enhanced intelligence. Yes, I would love one. No, I don't believe that Darkwind would ever consult Vree for advice if he wanted a deep and meaningful conversation. > There have been quite a few honorable Tal'eydras (as well as others > i.e Karel,) to show up in Haven and none of them were chosen either. Did any of the other Tayledras actually stay in Haven though? The only other one I recall is Firesong, and he's far too selfish to make a good Herald {{{ducks flames from Firelovers! No offence, really...}}} > --Winged Wolf wrote: > He has a bondbird, and he's devoted to the Star-Eyed. Probably the > latter more than the former is the reason. They've also never chosen any > other Tayledras or Shin'a'in. The Star-Eyed is a factor I hadn't considered. But in what way would this prevent him being Chosen? There are no religious prejudices in Valdemar - 'There is no one, true way'. And as for 'never happened before', I always considered that to be a challenge, but I'm just pigheaded :-) TrinityWch-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > When you think of the greater > picture, Companions rarely ever choose anyone that has any obligations that > would cause conflicts. Darkwind on the other hand has an obligation, not only for himself, but the > land that he has sworn to heal. I think it was WofC when Elspeth and Skif swore their oaths as Wingsibs - there was something there about the fact that those oaths did not conflict in any way with the vows they had made as heralds. > His presence in Valdemar is of an official capacity as Ambassador of sorts and as > a teacher to mages that are "coming out of the woodwork". Now the ambassador thing could create conflict, I see that. 'Hey let's send an ambassador to Valdemar. Whoops, he got Chosen, so his allegiance is now to them first. Let's send another one and hope it doesn't happen again'... Songjewel wrote: >remember, Companions > don't Choose those with other obligations, such as > being the heir, even if they are Valdemaran. But they do - when Elspeth is Chosen, Talia has to petition the Collegium for entrance, and there is something mentioned there about any candidate who would have to give up rights to land or holdings must petition for entrance, so that suggests that it does happen. Phew! What a long post! Thanks to everyone who responded - I take it you noticed that I'm rather a Darkwind fan? Apologies for the lack of textevd, but my books are all downstairs and I'm up here in the study, worn out but happy to have finally finished my degree - my last exam was today. treacle sponge pud sheep to everyone, Babs PS - Sheep helped my revision - the virelai was for pastoral subjects and my housemate instantly connects sheep with anything pastoral, so it stuck in my mind! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 14:15:21 EDT From: PunkadeIik-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Darkwind Message-ID: <4a.5f3c7df.26616ab9-+AT+-aol.com> Bright the day, list-sibs! In a message dated 05/27/2000 12:28:19 PM EST, Barbara-+AT+-joymartin.freeserve.co.uk writes: << I think it was WofC when Elspeth and Skif swore their oaths as Wingsibs - there was something there about the fact that those oaths did not conflict in any way with the vows they had made as heralds. >> But there is a difference from being a Wing-sib and being an actual part and member of the Clan. The Wing-sib's pledge's are very generic and vague, allowing for multiple allegiances, as Elspeth mentioned. Being a Clan *member* however, is pretty specific, they have to cleanse the land, after all, and are under fairly direct orders from the Star-Eyed. Think of the differences of how Darian/Moonwind led their lives after being adopted into the Clan as compared to Vanyel/Savil/Elspeth/Skif. Vanyel and Savil seldom even *saw* the Tayledras after, they were living so far away. Whereas with Darian and Moonwind, the Clan's life was their life. <> I believe that it's not the belief in another God/dess that is the problem (ie: Kerowyn, Alberich), but the fact that the Star-Eyed had given Darkwind a 'job' already. He was already in her service. It was said in the LHM and Arrows books that Heralds don't find partners very often, and generally the ones that do last are life-bonds, because the allegiance first to Valdemar, then to his/her Companion, takes up so much time and emotion that it's hard to find enough for a partner as well. Imagine Darkwind having to balance the loyalties of Valdemar, a Companion, Elspeth, the Tayledras- with k'Vala in particular, the Star-Eyed, and Vree. Whew! He'd probably combust under the strain! Zhai'helleva, ¤Silve¤ Knight of the OAM • Member of the CfWD, Albertan division • Co-ruler of the Great Spork Empire • Demon of Page-flipping • (Hopeful) Lady-o of the OoUH, Champion of Skif and Eric • ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 11:17:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Songjewel To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: DARKWIND Message-ID: <20000527181751.20632.qmail-+AT+-web1006.mail.yahoo.com> I think the discussion about Tayledras becoming Heralds is great and everything, but it's getting so that I've read eight posts with the same subject matter; This e-mail is to re-cap soething that has been said in -EACH- of the messages I read, as well as some new good points that were made. 1) Darkwind has prior responsibilities to the Star-Eyed (Yes, okay...he does!) 2) Darkwind has his bond to Vree already (Although some of us may believe this to be non-influential on the Herald-Companion bond, it is a valid point; one which has been brought up several times) ----- New points that have been brought up: 1) "Whenever a Herald becomes a Wingsib, they make a point of mentioning that the duties of a Herald would not conflict with the duties of a Tayledras, so presumably if it were only his vows to the Goddess, he could probably get Chosen." I'd like to make a small correction on this; I believe thay say that the duties of a Herald would come first if ever there were a conflict, and that the duties of Wingsib came after. Also, please note that this is with Wingsibs, an not born-in members of the clan, and the traditions may vary between the two. 2)"...'[H]e is certainly doing a lot to help Valdemar.' What more would he accomplish by being Chosen? It would, in fact, only get in his way, because he'd have to go to at least a few classes, and unless they worked out something special for him he'd have to go on Circuit." Quotes from Raven Darkblade ===== (a.k.a. Nuri-chan, Nuriko's Miko, like I have time to be anything else???) ~Fuu, Nuriko, Mercury, Aya __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:58:04 -0600 From: winged_wolf-+AT+-juno.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Darkwind Message-ID: <20000527.181548.-855143.7.Winged_Wolf-+AT+-juno.com> On Sat, 27 May 2000 18:34:44 +0100 (BST) "Barbara Martin" writes: > > The Star-Eyed is a factor I hadn't considered. But in what way would > this > prevent him being Chosen? There are no religious prejudices in > Valdemar - > 'There is no one, true way'. And as for 'never happened before', I > always > considered that to be a challenge, but I'm just pigheaded :-) Nope, there are no religious prejudices--but the Companions came at the bequest of King Valdemar when he PRAYED for a way to protect his people. Some deity answered that prayer, though they have never been clear on which one it was. However, they WERE clear that one deity may not interfere on the turf of enough--thus the Star-Eyed does not poach in Vkandis' territory. The Companions made it clear in the books that they did not KNOW the Star-Eyed very well--that they didn't know what to expect from her. Therefore, for a Companion to choose someone who is devoted to her would mean that they were poaching in the Star-Eyed's territory. Whichever deity created the Companions, it was definitely not the Star-Eyed. While Vanyel was accepted into the Tayledras Clan, he took their oath to defend the Veil, but he did not devote himself to the service of the Star-Eyed. The Tayledras assume that as a matter of course for themselves, so it is not part of the oath they require to swear a Wingsib into the clan. It is possible that the deity that created the Companions was actually Vkandis--they seem more comfortable with Karal and the Firecat than they do with the Star-Eyed and her avatars, or the Leshya 'a Kalenedral. But it might be neither the Star-Eyed or Vkandis who created them. All of the Shin'a'in and Tayledras are devoted to the Star-Eyed--she interferes on their behalf, and they have a direct obligation to her. The Companions cannot create an obligation to something other than what the Star-Eyed wishes specifically in one of Her people. --Winged Wolf http://www.crosswinds.net/~wingedwolf/index.html "Pardon me while I burst into flames...I've had enough of the world and its' peoples' mindless games. So pardon me while I burn, and rise above the flame, pardon me, pardon me...don't ever be the same..." --Incubus ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 19:16:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Songjewel To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Darkwind Message-ID: <20000528021601.28339.qmail-+AT+-web1002.mail.yahoo.com> Babs wrote: But they do - when Elspeth is Chosen, Talia has to petition the Collegium for entrance, and there is something mentioned there about any candidate who would have to give up rights to land or holdings must petition for entrance, so that suggests that it does happen. Elspeth is an exception to the heir thing; she had to BE Chosen in order to become heir. I believe it said any Chosen of Noble birth had to be petitioned...I COULD be wrong on that, b/c it's been a while and I'm going on a faint memory. On the other hand, Van wasn't Chosen until he got sent to court and had his channels blasted open...even though he was a good person, he hadn't been Chosen before then b/c he was heir. The Companions obviously knew about him, b/c of Gala. ~Song. ===== (a.k.a. Nuri-chan, Nuriko's Miko, like I have time to be anything else???) ~Fuu, Nuriko, Mercury, Aya __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 00:33:37 -0400 (EDT) From: moonshadow-+AT+-startrekmail.com To: Misty List Subject: ML: Religion in Velgarth Message-ID: <000528003337DV.17950-+AT+-weba3.iname.net> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Talia made a priestess of the Karsite religion? I'm sure that that has some kind of significance to the discussion, but it's after midnight, and I just can't think right now! *S* WTTW, Herald Jacquelle ------------------------------- Beam to http://www.StarTrek.com The official site of the Star Trek universe ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2308 **********************************