MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2314 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Darkwind being chosen by Mar243-+AT+-aol.com 2) ADMIN: not all she seems by Melanie Dymond Harper 3) Re: Darkwind being chosen by kat1-+AT+-austin.rr.com 4) Re: Firecats by XShadowXBladeIX-+AT+-aol.com 5) Monarch's Own by Mar243-+AT+-aol.com 6) Repudiation of a Companion (was: Darkwind being Chosen) by "John Anthony Kazos Jr." 7) I'M BACK!!!!!!!!! by Abby Normal 8) Re: Monarch's Own by "John Anthony Kazos Jr." 9) Companion-Chosen Bond (was: Darkwind being chosen) by "John Anthony Kazos Jr." 10) Re: Companions to Choose and Not to Choose - BURNING SPOILERS by "John Anthony Kazos Jr." 11) Re: ML: Misty's names by "John Anthony Kazos Jr." 12) Re: Vkandis and Companions by "John Anthony Kazos Jr." 13) RE: Genetics and Magic WARNING STORMS AND MAGIC'S PRICE SPOILERS by "John Anthony Kazos Jr." 14) Re: A new side to: The question of genetics by "John Anthony Kazos Jr." 15) Re: I'M BACK!!!!!!!!! by Amy Trujillo 16) Re: Monarchs Own by moonshadow-+AT+-startrekmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:55:55 EDT From: Mar243-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Darkwind being chosen Message-ID: <6f.5c1444b.26694f2b-+AT+-aol.com> On if a companion could repudiate his Chosen if he had chosen wrong...wouldn't that give the Chosen the right to repudiate his Companion? If a Herald, or would be Herald, really did not want to be a Herald and realized the the Companion made a mistake or whatever wouldn't that be good enough cause for a Herald to repudiate his Companion? As far as the books go its never happened, but everyone makes mistakes, even Gaurdian Spirit types. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:17:05 +0100 (BST) From: Melanie Dymond Harper To: mercedes-lackey Subject: ADMIN: not all she seems Message-ID: <200006021817.TAA21589-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Hi folks, Not entirely on-topic, for which I abase myself, but the person who passed this along figured that Misty and Tanya Huff share a lot of readers and wanted to get the word out as widely as possible: "it seems she has an imposter online, who has been posing as her in chat rooms, and even agreed to a convention appearance in Japan! The way to recognize this woman (?) {Who knows, it might not even be a woman, only claims to be} is that "she" says that she lives in New York City, has children and "writes under the name of Tanya Huff". None of these are true of the real Tanya Huff, who writes under her own name, thank you. As importantly, Tanya NEVER uses chat rooms, so anyone you find in there using that name can't be her." So should you hear of anyone who thinks they've been in a chat room talking to Tanya Huff, please feel free to disabuse them. Cheers Mel, auntie to all she surveys ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:55:01 -0500 From: kat1-+AT+-austin.rr.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Darkwind being chosen Message-ID: <0c4244447180260SM2-+AT+-Mail.austin.rr.com> Found this yesterday... Page 216-17 of Winds of Fate: "And she [Elspeth] wondered also what happened to a Herald who murdered his Companion....Once in a while, she wished there was such a thing as repudiation by the Herald...." Apparently it's not possible; though that might be thought only because it hasn't happened before. Elhith (post #3!) > On if a companion could repudiate his Chosen if he had chosen > wrong...wouldn't that give the Chosen the right to repudiate his > Companion? If a Herald, or would be Herald, really did not want to be a > Herald and realized the the Companion made a mistake or whatever wouldn't > that be good enough cause for a Herald to repudiate his Companion? As far > as the books go its never happened, but everyone makes mistakes, even > Gaurdian Spirit types. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:37:45 EDT From: XShadowXBladeIX-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: <79.4e17d9d.26698329-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 6/2/00 8:24:46 AM Central Daylight Time, lbelzer-+AT+-cosentini.com writes: << My apologies for my imprecise language. That is what my then-mush-like brains were trying to express, but couldn't quite find the right terminology for. And I think there *is* textev for Firecats using nodes, but I don't have any of my books at work, drat it... -Icewolf >> in sSB they tell about the two firecats that jumped to praty to the tower? Is that not magic>? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:44:02 EDT From: Mar243-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Monarch's Own Message-ID: <98.5c59dd4.2669aed2-+AT+-aol.com> Okay I have a question about something said in Queen's Own. Aparently whomever Rolan chose would have been the Monarch's Own but it also said that the person was usually someone who was allready chosen or someone at court (or something, cant remember exact phrasing dont have the book with me) But the question is, how could Rolan Choose someone who was already Chosen? Thats something that has been bugging me forever and Ive been dying to finally ask someone. Or maybe is it a typo of a sort? Reana ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:28:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "John Anthony Kazos Jr." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Repudiation of a Companion (was: Darkwind being Chosen) Message-ID: I think that, in context, that quotation neither confirms nor invalidates the premise that it is possible for a Herald to repudiate their companion. The phrase "such a thing as" seems to imply "unvoiced taboo" rather than "voiced prohibition", as in "a thing unheard of" just as it was a thing unheard of for a Companion to repudiate her Chosen (Tylendel). On Fri, 2 Jun 2000 kat1-+AT+-austin.rr.com wrote: > Found this yesterday... > > Page 216-17 of Winds of Fate: > "And she [Elspeth] wondered also what happened to a Herald > who murdered his Companion....Once in a while, she wished there > was such a thing as repudiation by the Herald...." > > Apparently it's not possible; though that might be thought only > because it hasn't happened before. > > Elhith (post #3!) > > > On if a companion could repudiate his Chosen if he had chosen > > wrong...wouldn't that give the Chosen the right to repudiate his > > Companion? If a Herald, or would be Herald, really did not want to be a > > Herald and realized the the Companion made a mistake or whatever wouldn't > > that be good enough cause for a Herald to repudiate his Companion? As far > > as the books go its never happened, but everyone makes mistakes, even > > Gaurdian Spirit types. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:34:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Abby Normal To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: I'M BACK!!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <20000603033408.22572.qmail-+AT+-web4702.mail.yahoo.com> Heyla everybody! I have given up on hotmail. Of course, any sensible person would have given up on it months ago when it first kicked me off the list, but sensible has not really been a word to describe me recently. But I finally got a new address and I'm back on-list! This makes me so incredibly happy! Hello all the oldbies, I hope someone remembers me, and all newbies (meaning anyone who joined since I got kicked off) are now very wet! Mark the Tax Zombie, if you're still around: to continue a mini-argument interrupted months ago, yes I have had a *very* bad time, however I do not feel like talking about it, and it basically boils down to the fact that rl holds very little appeal for me now and I'm glad to be back in the Halls of Mist. Counselors of Mist: How do I put this into digest format again? I can't quite remember what the body text should be, just something about mail digest. Thank you. ObMisty: I read Black_Swan a few days ago, and was not impressed. I'm not the first to make this observation, but her later books are just falling and falling. Something along the lines of LHM would be exceedingly appreciated about now. I've noticed Brightly_Burning in bookstores. Is it any good? marzipan sheep to all, Ambermoon Singer of Fire Royal Defender of the Brat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:34:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "John Anthony Kazos Jr." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Monarch's Own Message-ID: I remember that passage, and I believe I would have noticed if there was such a typo. But since I'm about to go to bed, I'll just make a guess: The passage probably states that Rolan would Choose someone of the kinds who are most commonly chosen, especially those already in Haven, and among those, especially the undiscovered peasant, endangered street-dweller, and misunderstood highborn. On Sat, 3 Jun 2000 Mar243-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Okay I have a question about something said in Queen's Own. Aparently > whomever Rolan chose would have been the Monarch's Own but it also said that > the person was usually someone who was allready chosen or someone at court > (or something, cant remember exact phrasing dont have the book with me) But > the question is, how could Rolan Choose someone who was already Chosen? Thats > something that has been bugging me forever and Ive been dying to finally ask > someone. Or maybe is it a typo of a sort? > Reana > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:41:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "John Anthony Kazos Jr." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Companion-Chosen Bond (was: Darkwind being chosen) Message-ID: I believe that a repudiation between Companion and Chosen, as in the case of Tylendel, is not a breaking of the bond (which from reading Kethry/Tarma stories requires the power of an archpriest) but an act. Had she (the Companion) survived, both of them would likely be in emotional stress to the point of breakdown; therefore, a Herald would have to be insane or suicidal to repudiate their Companion, or likely they would *become* insane or suicidal. But it wouldn't be inconceivable. On Fri, 2 Jun 2000 Mar243-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > On if a companion could repudiate his Chosen if he had chosen > wrong...wouldn't that give the Chosen the right to repudiate his Companion? > If a Herald, or would be Herald, really did not want to be a Herald and > realized the the Companion made a mistake or whatever wouldn't that be good > enough cause for a Herald to repudiate his Companion? As far as the books go > its never happened, but everyone makes mistakes, even Gaurdian Spirit types. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:51:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "John Anthony Kazos Jr." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions to Choose and Not to Choose - BURNING SPOILERS Message-ID: I hold two theories, but I'm more in favor of the second. First theory: the Lady somewhat directly controlls the genetics involved with the gifts, and they are only given to those who will (or should) become Heralds. This allows the Companion to "sniff out" their Chosen once they're in the general area they were directed to by a very gentle nudge by the Lady (who is, of course, rightfully hesitant to directly meddle so often). Second theory: rarely, there are Gifted non-Heralds and un-Gifted Heralds. The former is noticed even more rarely, since most Gifts are latent. The latter likely remain members of the Court, thus riding only a token First Circuit and none further, or are more "ordinary" and are somewhat un-noteworthy for Valdemaran (or nearby) chroniclers. On Thu, 1 Jun 2000 XShadowXBladeIX-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/1/00 6:58:02 AM Central Daylight Time, > WINTERSONG-+AT+-prodigy.net writes: > > << > >>>>So the question becomes - does having a non-Healing, non-Bardic gift in > significant measure guarantee a Companion in one's future? > >> > > > I was allso going to say, wouldn't it make seans if some was going to be more > good not being choosen then not why, choosen them and maybe miss things all > up? > > Shadow > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:52:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "John Anthony Kazos Jr." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ML: Misty's names Message-ID: Isn't "Elspeth" a very common Elizabethean name? I've seen it in at least four places, but fleetingly enough that I only subconsciously noted it and can't remember where I saw it. On Fri, 2 Jun 2000 moonshadow-+AT+-startrekmail.com wrote: > >This isn't a very technical question, but where do you > >think Misty gets her names? I've come up with some > >pretty good names playing Scrabble. I doubt she has a > >list of usable names, though, because been rereading > >some of my books and I've found a couple namses and > >words used more than once. > > > As far as the Arrow's books go, most of her names are > historical, which I have at one time or another encountered > in my reading. Case in point, I am in the middle of a > trilogy by Sharon Kay Penman, historical fiction set > in the time of King John, and the word "Cymry" appears. > It is a Welsh word meaning "countrymen" or "brotherhood" > or something similiar...I'll have to check the book > to be sure. But I thought that was very interesting. > I've also found Elspeth, and even Selenay (IIRC). > > Herald Jacquelle > > > > ------------------------------- > Beam to http://www.StarTrek.com > The official site of the Star Trek universe > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 00:00:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "John Anthony Kazos Jr." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vkandis and Companions Message-ID: Measurement of the degree of cooperation between the spirits is subjective, and I refer you to the Kethry/Tarma stories. The Star-Eyed (as Warrior) jokingly asks a companion if she should create black spirit horses to complement the Companions as the Kal'enedral complemented the Heralds. (The Companion gave her a withering look.) And as far as noticing that they were sprits instead of simply smart horses/cats, it's been a running joke that the Tale'edras, Quenten, Karal, and others have noticed and commented on the fact that the Companions are spirit animals so that the Heralds are pretty much the only ones on Velgarth that don't realize it. (Which seems to suit the Lady.) So I believe that there is simply a tendency for a god to have spirit-avatars amongst those who need them: leshya'e Kal'enedral, Companions, Firecats, the Sword that Sings (in a very limited sense, as it Chooses but does nothing else, and is not embodied), and so on. On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Lyn Belzer wrote: > Winged Wolf wrote: > > > Actually, this is yet another bit of evidence for the idea > > that Vkandis > > is the god that created the Companions in the first place. > > It seemed to > > me that the Companions knew far more about the Firecats, and > > were willing > > to work with them far more closely, than they were with any > > follower of > > the Star-Eyed, or Her avatars. > > Hrm. Not sure I can agree with that. I think he's just "the god next > door." He's far too insular and particular to be quite that wide ranging. > Now, the gods seem to have many of the same devices--Kal'enal, the ghost > Swordsworn [blanking again, damn getting old sucks rocks]; the unnamed Lord > and Lady of Valdemar, the Companions; and Vkandis, the Firecats. But the > cats are white with blue eyes for the same reason as the Companions (and the > Tayledras too, for that matter)--because they use magic. It doesn't > necessarily follow that they have the same creator. > > Again, merely my 2 silvers on the subject, your mileage may vary. > > -Icewolf > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 00:11:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "John Anthony Kazos Jr." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Genetics and Magic WARNING STORMS AND MAGIC'S PRICE SPOILERS Message-ID: I believe this will be easy to resolve, if I remember correctly. (And I swear upon a $100 bill that I read this, it's so strong in my mind. (Not that I've never been wrong before.)) When An'desha was sifting through his memories somewhere between Winds of Fury and Storm Warning, I remember him mentioning that one of Ma'ar's incarnations was Leareth. If I remember this correctly, then Vanyel couldn't possibly have been a descendant. On a side note, wouldn't it be horrid (for someone *not* like Falconsbane, of course) to outlive your children by millennia? On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Lyn Belzer wrote: > I seem to remember hearing that a few folks around here haven't read all the > books yet, and I'd hate to spoil them for them, hence the warning. > > Elhith wrote: > > >> Nicole wrote: > > > >>Sorry, I just find it > >> kind of hard to believe that Vanyel could be one of > >> Ma'ar's descendants. Sorry it's just the whole 'The sins of > >> the fathers will be taken up by their sons' thing that > >> makes it kind of > >> hard to believe. Besides that, I think Vanyel was too just plain > >> good to be descended from a scum bag like Ma'ar. > > Um, just because one's parents (or progenitors) are scum, it doesn't mean > that the one is destined to scumdom as well. I mean, as Elhith said, look > at Andesha! Sure he was wimpy to begin with, but he turned out quite nicely > in the end. I also think the idea that Leareth and Van may be two sides of > the same gene rather intriguing. Adds the good vs. evil within the self > symbolism quite nicely. :) (So sue me, I was an English major.) > > > There's been a few comments that > > people close to Urtho could have been Van's ancestor, though, > > which is more likely than Ma'ar. > > With all due respect, I think this is more due to Misty's tendency to > slightly recycle characters, rather than any actual blood relationship. I > thought Amberdrake bore a very close resemblance to Vanyel, myself. > > Speaking to Elhith's point, though, there probably is a technical blood > relationship between followers of Urtho and the Ashkevron line at Forst > Reach. However, remember that Urtho's people (save Amberdrake, Cinnabar, et > al) escaped to the east *along with Ma'ar's* to found the Eastern Empire > (this is discussed in length in one of the Storms books, IIRC). And the > folks from the Eastern Empire went on to found Valdemar. So there's > probably a mixture of both sides of the Mage Wars running through Valdemaran > veins. However, that relationship is probably quite diluted by now. > > > Btw, what nationality(?) was Ma'ar? > > I think there's textual evidence in one of the Winds or one of the Storms > books that Ma'ar was something of a mongrel, perhaps even a bastard, thus > beginning his sense of inferiority, thus beginning his lust for conquest. > > -Icewolf, thinking that all the sheep being tossed about might make nice > clothing > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 00:16:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "John Anthony Kazos Jr." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A new side to: The question of genetics Message-ID: I believe he meant that they would likely use their Channeling and Magery before they were trained (thus doing it wrong) or simply not realizing the delicate three- or even four-way balance that must be maintained within themselves and with the power and the Void (thus overdoing it). I think it would be equally likely that death, madness, or burn-out (such as happened to Karal) would occur with such an overdoing, in order from most to least severe. (But not just dependant upon the amount of power, but how it passes, at what rate, and its form (unchanneled, channeled, shaped, rogue, etc.) when the burn-out occurred.) On Wed, 31 May 2000, Sara Peek wrote: > > --- Peter Allen wrote: > > Great replies from everyone :). I'm basically > > playing 's advocate > > here to provoke discussion, sooo without further ado > > :) > > > ok, Peter, here's some discussion. No one has > mentioned the Karsites in all of this. In Storms, > Karal talks about the burnings and how his parents > were afraid he would go to the fires because each of > them had a sibling burned. Also, he talked to > Firesong (I think it was Firesong)how and why he > couldn't use the power he could channel. Firesong > sid that you would need channeling and mage-gift, of > which Karal had very little. If someone with both > tried to use all that power, they would die, he said, > and if they died, they wouldn't have children with > that combination, therefore making it very rare. > > Wind to thy wings, and genetically-improved sheep to > everyone! > Herald-Mage Rini > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 00:37:35 -0500 From: Amy Trujillo To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I'M BACK!!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <3938999F.9FBFDA58-+AT+-southwind.net> Abby Normal wrote:. > ObMisty: I read Black_Swan a few days ago, and > was not impressed. I'm not the first to make this > observation, but her later books are just falling and > falling. Something along the lines of LHM would be > exceedingly appreciated about now. > I've noticed Brightly_Burning in bookstores. Is > it any good? First off welcome back...de lurking a bit here been busy getting engaged, going to be married Oct 20 :) and trying to finish up my school work for my Masters degree. On Brightly Burning: I don't think this needs a spoiler since I'm not going to get into any specifics. I thought it was much more like her older books. The character developement of Lan and the rest could have been a bit better but dealing with a single book in a very short amount of time didn't allow for as much as a trilogy. I really liked the story and the twists she put in it, its very LHMish in its tone just because of how you know its going to end and Lan is very similar to Van in more than one way. I agree that Black Swan has to be one of Misty's weakest books it just didn't get me at all, one of the few books of hers I've read only once. I did like the last two Owl books though, they were more lightweight but they were fun reads. Oh and Congrats Paige! I noticed that you had your daughter!!! Chocolate chip ice cream sheep to everyone Brat Ferret Friend Lady of All Things Missing, Especially Socks Happily engaged to the most wonderful man in the world and soon to be an English citizen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 08:00:21 -0400 (EDT) From: moonshadow-+AT+-startrekmail.com To: Misty List Subject: Re: Monarchs Own Message-ID: <00060308002142.23187-+AT+-weba3.iname.net> Reana wrote: >But >the question is, how could Rolan Choose someone who >was already Chosen? Thats >something that has been bugging me forever and Ive >been dying to finally ask >someone. Or maybe is it a typo of a sort? IIRC, Misty answered this (I think it's on the Firebird website) by saying that the Herald who is Chosen by the MO Companion never really had a real Bond with his first Companion. Of course, he could never know this, b/c Bonds are such subjective things. He would never know that he hadn't had a real Bond until he Bonded with the MO Companion and had a comparison. Does that make sense?? Herald Jacquelle "There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." _The Last Unicorn_ ------------------------------- Beam to http://www.StarTrek.com The official site of the Star Trek universe ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2314 **********************************