MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2358 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Empathy, Mindspeech, and Truth Spell, Oh My! by Reanna Laury 2) Re: Empathy, Mindspeech, and Truth Spell, Oh My! by kat1-+AT+-austin.rr.com 3) Re: Empathy, Mindspeech, and Truth Spell, Oh My! by winged_wolf-+AT+-juno.com 4) Sheesh! by Reanna Laury 5) Re: Sheesh! by winged_wolf-+AT+-juno.com 6) Re: Empathy, Mindspeech, and Truth Spell, Oh My! by kat1-+AT+-austin.rr.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 06:38:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Reanna Laury To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Empathy, Mindspeech, and Truth Spell, Oh My! Message-ID: <20000720133841.7612.qmail-+AT+-web1611.mail.yahoo.com> I'm not saying that it would be a utopia! This would not just be looking at someone and thinking that you don't like their personality; it would be looking at their morals in a sense. If you could look at someone and tell that they were a highly disturbed individual, crazy even, you could get them help before things turned negative. You could tell who was innocent and who was guilty in trials (like Talia did when she helped that dye merchant who was accused of killing that girl in "Arrow's Flight") You could tell the scumbags from the not-scumbags. You could tell who was going to steal from your business before employing that person. You could tell which businesses are working for a darker purpose. And as for shutting people out of valuable oppurtunities before proving themselves, if that person *could* work beyond those differences, wouldn't other people be able to See that? And take that into account? Maybe some people wouldn't but some people would. It's no different from today when people discriminate against others for petty reasons or refuse to see further than certain facts. Except, these reasons might not be so petty. 'Course, I could easily imagine in our society people inventing devices which would scramble people's Empathy or Mindspeech. Eh, well. Or, what about the Truth Spell? Being able to *make* a person tell the truth? What's wrong with making someone speak the truth? Isn't the truth something to be sought for? Perhaps it could be misused, but I strongly believe the pros outweigh the cons. Yes, Empathy, Mindspeech, and the Truth Spell would leave you open to judgement, but wouldn't it be a correct judgement? People judge each other on looks alone, all the time. Wouldn't it be better to base your judgement on something a bit more substantial? Yeah, things wouldn't be private anymore. You've definitely got a point there. I am NOT a proponent of "Big Brother" and think it would lead to the eventual breakdown of society. People need privacy in order to stay sane. But I hope we would treat our "powers" more like how they do in Valdemar. Maybe we shouldn't have Empathy or Mindspeech, it could be misused maybe too mcuh. But I fail to see how the truth spell could be misused enough to outweigh all the positive things that could happen. Hmmm, how about just *me* having empathy then? I could become a Super Hero! I've always dreamed of becoming an X-Men with the powers of Empathy. To defeat bad guys, I could project fear into them, making them fear lil ole' me! Combative Empathy! I would certainly try to use my powers for good WTTW ~Reanna "Those who have crossed With direct eyes, to death's other Kingdom Remember us - if at all - not as lost Violent souls, but only As the hollow men The stuffed men." - T.S. Eliot --- Yvonne wrote: >> As for Gifts, I'd have to disagree with Reanna about > using Mindspeach or > Empathy to 'read' and judge everyone that you came > across. Not only does > that leave yourself as open to judgement, and > discrimination, as > everyone else around you, but it takes the fun out > of getting to know > someone intimatly; learning all about their little > quirks and flaws that > make them unique and interesting. Everyone has flaws > to some degree or > another, and the problem with a society that judged > it's members on some > sort of hidden scale by reading their thoughts and > emotions is that > there would be nothing private; all your innermost > thoughts, dreams, > emotions, and whatnot would be dragged forward and > picked apart and > judged by your peers. And not everyone likes you -- > lets face it, > everyone has met people they can't stand! Those that > don't like you > could cry 'Personality Problem!' and shut you out of > valuable > oppertunities before you even had a chance to prove > yourself, and prove > that you can work beyond differences. I dunno. Maybe > I'm just against > the idea of 'utopia' ... a place where everything is > perfect would have > very little to stimulate and challenge the mind. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:40:52 -0500 From: kat1-+AT+-austin.rr.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Empathy, Mindspeech, and Truth Spell, Oh My! Message-ID: <04ea35547141470SM1-+AT+-mail.austin.rr.com> Heyla! Just had to get in this discussion to state my view, but it seems like somebody else beat me to it ;) Reanna said something about only her having Empathy. One of my fantasies for years has been ability to read peoples minds and see what they really feel about things (I'm exceedingly poor at reading faces). The only bad thing about only one person, or a small minority, having mindspeech or empathy, etc. is that they would be treated with revulsion, fear, or anger; especially by people who have something to hide. Most likely they would be sought out by mobs and killed because people are afraid of losing their privacy and someone having the ability to know everything about them. It seems like the people of Velgarth are more accepting than people of Earth are; or maybe it's just because they've lived with it so long. I'm sure in Valdemar they trust the Collegium to train Heralds, but what about the people who have gifts but aren't chosen? Or people in places other than Valdemar? Why are the people so accepting of the "uncontrolled" gifts? (It's not wrong; it's just very unusual/unlikely). Cinnamon sugar sheep to all! :) Elhith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:15:34 -0600 From: winged_wolf-+AT+-juno.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Empathy, Mindspeech, and Truth Spell, Oh My! Message-ID: <20000720.091820.-506811.30.Winged_Wolf-+AT+-juno.com> On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:13:45 +0100 (BST) kat1-+AT+-austin.rr.com writes: > > Heyla! Just had to get in this discussion to state my view, but it > seems like somebody else beat me to it ;) > > Reanna said something about only her having Empathy. One of my > fantasies for years has been ability to read peoples minds and see > what they really feel about things (I'm exceedingly poor at reading > faces). I have it on good authority that it is not at all fun, and no one I know of who can do this enjoys it one bit. Might seem nice at first, until you start adding more than one person to the mix--imagine that input from 5 people--or 10--or a huge crowd.... Do you really want to feel another person's emotional pain as if it were your own? Consider what goes on in your own head every day--everyone else's is pretty much like that--do you need an extra line of babble going on along with your own? I agree, it seems odd that people would be so accepting of mind-gifts that way. There isn't really any precedent for it. Then again, Valdemar is supposed to be somewhat idealized, and those with mind-gifts aren't necessarily treated well outside of it. --Winged Wolf http://www.crosswinds.net/~wingedwolf/index.html "Pardon me while I burst into flames...I've had enough of the world and its' peoples' mindless games. So pardon me while I burn, and rise above the flame, pardon me, pardon me...don't ever be the same..." --Incubus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:40:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Reanna Laury To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Sheesh! Message-ID: <20000720184041.9267.qmail-+AT+-web1610.mail.yahoo.com> I was kidding! Apparently my "wicked grin's" didn't convey that. I am *fully* well-aware of all the problems with being the only one with empathy. I was just kidding around. I don't need lectures! Although, if we are going to drag the real world kicking and screaming in, I *imagine* that if you have empathy of mindspeech, you would also have a way to shield yourself. If there was no way to shield...well, I don't know. I imagine one would get used to it. I was only responding to the question as what I thought would be neat to bring from Valdemar into this world. I imagine that having a companion bond isn't entirely all it's cracked up to be in the real world. And certainly not lifebonds. The same with other mind-gifts. mmmm, what a second...Winged Wolf, you know someone with empathy? Real empathy? ~Reanna (who apologizes for her strong opinions, she's in college and sometimes feels that she is always right, and sometimes has to be hit on the head to believe otherwise! ) --- winged_wolf-+AT+-juno.com wrote: > On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:13:45 +0100 (BST) > kat1-+AT+-austin.rr.com writes: > > > > Heyla! Just had to get in this discussion to state > my view, but it > > seems like somebody else beat me to it ;) > > > > Reanna said something about only her having > Empathy. One of my > > fantasies for years has been ability to read > peoples minds and see > > what they really feel about things (I'm > exceedingly poor at reading > > faces). > > I have it on good authority that it is not at all > fun, and no one I know > of who can do this enjoys it one bit. Might seem > nice at first, until > you start adding more than one person to the > mix--imagine that input from > 5 people--or 10--or a huge crowd.... > Do you really want to feel another person's > emotional pain as if it were > your own? Consider what goes on in your own head > every day--everyone > else's is pretty much like that--do you need an > extra line of babble > going on along with your own? > I agree, it seems odd that people would be so > accepting of mind-gifts > that way. There isn't really any precedent for it. > Then again, Valdemar > is supposed to be somewhat idealized, and those with > mind-gifts aren't > necessarily treated well outside of it. > > --Winged Wolf > http://www.crosswinds.net/~wingedwolf/index.html > "Pardon me while I burst into flames...I've had > enough of the world and > its' peoples' mindless games. > So pardon me while I burn, and rise above the flame, > pardon me, pardon > me...don't ever be the same..." > --Incubus __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 13:40:50 -0600 From: winged_wolf-+AT+-juno.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sheesh! Message-ID: <20000720.140725.-506811.38.Winged_Wolf-+AT+-juno.com> On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:22:28 +0100 (BST) Reanna Laury writes: > > Although, if we are going to drag the real world > kicking and screaming in, I *imagine* that if you have > empathy of mindspeech, you would also have a way to > shield yourself. If there was no way to shield...well, > I don't know. I imagine one would get used to it. Yes, except unless they learn that, they do not get used to it, they usually end up on drugs or dead. (reality sucks) > I was only responding to the question as what I > thought would be neat to bring from Valdemar into this > world. I imagine that having a companion bond isn't > entirely all it's cracked up to be in the real world. > And certainly not lifebonds. The same with other > mind-gifts. > mmmm, what a second...Winged Wolf, you know someone > with empathy? Real empathy? > > ~Reanna That is my "other hobby" . Actually, M. Lackey has done a reasonably good job of presenting some "gifts" though she has a Wiccan perspective on it. --Winged Wolf http://www.crosswinds.net/~wingedwolf/index.html "Pardon me while I burst into flames...I've had enough of the world and its' peoples' mindless games. So pardon me while I burn, and rise above the flame, pardon me, pardon me...don't ever be the same..." --Incubus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:18:06 -0500 From: kat1-+AT+-austin.rr.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Empathy, Mindspeech, and Truth Spell, Oh My! Message-ID: <078ac2024211470SM2-+AT+-Mail.austin.rr.com> > I have it on good authority that it is not at all fun, and no one I know > of who can do this enjoys it one bit. Might seem nice at first, until you > start adding more than one person to the mix--imagine that input from 5 > people--or 10--or a huge crowd.... Do you really want to feel another > person's emotional pain as if it were your own? Consider what goes on in > your own head every day--everyone else's is pretty much like that--do you > need an extra line of babble going on along with your own? I guess I forgot to expand on my idea... I fully understand the implications of having empathy/mind gifts, and I imagined little restrictions on it (like having to concentrate in order to use the gift); but since I'll never have it, it doesn't really matter. And truly told, I wouldn't want it; it's one of those things you think you would love to have but if you actually had it you'd be miserable because you're not yourself. (wow, if you can understand that I'll give you a brownie! :) What I mean is, everyone (it seems) wishes they were something else; could change something about them; even though they wouldn't really be happy with those changes. And I certainly would not need an extra line of babble in my head; it's hard enough to think with outside noise! There. I'm sorry for victims of my absentmindness; I always seem to forget everyone doesn't think the way I do *grin* I'm still curious as to how mages are treated by "normal folk." It's been a while since I read the Owl books (first two anyhow) so I can't remember if the townsfolk treated the non-Heralds who had Gifts differently, or even if it came up. Cheesecake sheep as apologies! (yum.) Elhith ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2358 **********************************