MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2363 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) The Great Companion Debate by "Abigail Laughlin" 2) Wicca and Marian by "Hill, Susan" 3) Libraries and Books/Brightly Burning Spoiler by ShadowDreamer 4) Lifebonds by Tessa Raethen 5) Re: Wicca and Marian by MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com 6) Companions/foresight/lifebonds by Eeyore9051-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:39:29 GMT From: "Abigail Laughlin" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: The Great Companion Debate Message-ID: <> Hm. I don't agree with this; I think the relationship between Herald and Companion has less to do with friendship than it does compatibility. Friends can be of all persuasions--a Companion is his/her Herald's close partner, guide, and protector, and in many cases the bolster of his/her Chosen's sanity and stability, in addition to being a friend. I'm sure we all have friends who we like and care about and enjoy, but who we can never really predict, or help when they have problems. <> Well, for starters they'd have to be reborn as Companions in the same time period. It's not a guarantee; by all accounts, they aren't automatically reborn. Too--and this is something people seem to forget--lifebonds are supposed to be rare. No matter what, there just aren't going to be loads of lifebonded Herald couples, so regardless of what they choose when they die, the question isn't going to come up all that often. Even less so when you consider that a Herald is as likely--if not more so--to lifebond with a non-Herald as with another Herald, and that non-Herald may not get the option of coming back as a Companion straight off. But this is all getting rather brain-fry complicated, don't you think? <> Hm... 'Darvena' sounds like a female name, though, and I can't imagine that he'd switch genders when he came back... Remember, Misty re-uses names all the time, so similar names don't mean it's the same character reborn. <> Has it ever been established that all Grove-Born are ageless? The Monarch's Own Companion is, but I don't recall that being a direct result of his being Grove-Born. All of the first Companions were Grove-Born as well, but it was never said that any of them were ageless in the same way; I think it's a trait unique to the MOC, who is an exception to the usual in many ways. This is a subject that's been discussed before; I think it was agreed that the MOC lives agelessly in order to accumulate as much experience as possible to aid the Monarch's Own. It was suggested that the reason he's always a stallion and always Grove-Born is that it's the same soul, coming back again and again... though you'd think that would get exceedingly tiring after the first few times around. I imagine the MOC does have 'who wants to live forever' moments... but he's got a Higher Purpose, and quite possibly some direct divine guidance to keep him going. It probably helps. <> No, I don't think so. The major difference between Grove-Born Companions and regular ones is the way they came into the world--normal Companions are born; Grove-Born simply appear. The implication is that their arrivals are different because their origins are different. Also, the Grove-Born are a higher order of Guardian Spirit (Quenten's observation in WoFate), and Gwena, at least, had "no real, human experience" (Vanyel to Elspeth in WoFury). <> This isn't necessarily an argument towards the Grove-Born being past Heralds, not in a world where there are so many different races and even those from other planes (coughThalkarshcough) have their share of personality flaws, bad judgment, and general shortcomings. In Velgarth, at least, mistakes do not a human soul make (though granted, with all the reincarnation going on, it's hard to tell the difference). Better to say the Grove-Born have *mortal* shortcomings--and mortal they are, even the MOC to the extent that he can be killed. <> Vanyel answers this one in MPrice when he tells Stefen that Heralds are given a choice--they can go to the Havens, or they can come back. It's not a matter of being chosen, it's just a matter of what they want to do. It's basically said outright in Storms as well that Heralds have the option of coming back as Companions; Karal was rather surprised that most of the Heralds he talked to didn't know. This whole discussion has left me with Indigo Girls on the brain... "And then you had to bring up reincarnation Over a couple of beers the other night And now my soul is doing time for the mistakes Made by another in another lifetime How long 'til my soul gets it right? Can any human being ever reach that kind of light? I call upon the resting soul Of Galileo King of night vision King of insight..." Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade, Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves, Card-Carrying Heartless Bitch, Knight and Founding Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes, Advocator of Eldan, Champion of Kethra and Hyllarr, Devotee of Maclyn, and Worshipper of Tal Rufen; and Mor the raven, her familiar. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 07:31:01 -0700 From: "Hill, Susan" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: Wicca and Marian Message-ID: <872A9D7CC09CD11188CE00805FBB042E05BFFE20-+AT+-emswwc7.weyer.com> > From: MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com > > wiccan.... perhaps. I know that Marion zimmer Bradley was a wiccan, saw > her > picture in a book sometime ago that showed mzb in a wiccan ceremony. > Misty > lackey was one of those writers that MZB helped get a start in publishing. > I > think she bought some of misty's first stories for publication in MZB's > fantasy magazine. I wonder if that is where she got some of her > information > .. that is mentioned in some of these emails messages. > WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. Marion was a devout Christian - an Episcopalian/Church of England follower, if I do believe. Its one of her EXPRESSLY stated opinions - she apparently was very tired of people assuming she had some sort of funky, cult-type, possibly Wiccan faith. You might be thinking of Patricia Kennelly Morrison - who was Jim Morrison's wife. She played the part of a HPriestess in the Doors movie, and thats one of the photo's that's floating around the net. She is a "pagan" - I believe a follower mainly of the old Celtic faiths, but definitely a High Priestess. Suzi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:54:14 -0600 From: ShadowDreamer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Libraries and Books/Brightly Burning Spoiler Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000725095414.01398a4c-+AT+-mail> Laura writes: >Here's the situation: I really can't afford to buy any books right now >b/c I need to save money to buy a bed and other apartment stuff. I >really don't want to stop reading. So that leaves me with the library. >While my old home library had a really good Misty stock, my new >town....well it just doesn't. It specializes in having only one or two >books from a trilogy. So I have the 2nd bardic voices book (blanking on >the name) sitting at home and I'd like to read it but I have no clue >what happened or even what the first book was about. Can anyone help me >by filling in details? You don't have to reply to the whole list that >way people who read the book don't have to re-read it each email. ;-) Well... it's a bit more complicated than I'd care to attempt to describe in an e-mail. But I would like to suggeest to you that you ask at your local library if you can get Interlibrary Loans. It may be that for a SMALL charge, or none at all, your library can get the books that you want from another library district. I work in my local library and know that at least all the libraries in this area participate in the system, I would find it strange if your local library couldn't do so as well. G R E A T B I G SP O IL ER S P A C E ! >Just one question I have is are there lifebonded Companions. I would think >so because if two lifebonded Heralds are both reborn as Companions they would >still be lifebonded, but I was just wondering what you all thought 'cause >Mercedes never mentions it. Well, Companions CAN have lifebonds, because in Brightly Burning, Kalira is lifebonded to Lavan. So I would assume they can have lifebonds between Companions as well. Known to one and all as ShadowDreamer, formerly MorningStar Mindmate to the tawny eagle Ryia! Original Member of the Order of Unsung Heros (http://www.angelfire.com/ok2/oouh/) shadskitty-+AT+-home.com morningstar-+AT+-poetic.com Web page is moving...watch this spot for updates! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:47:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Tessa Raethen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Lifebonds Message-ID: <23674638.964568860401.JavaMail.imail-+AT+-digger.excite.com> Bright the day, everyone (now that my midterm is over!) There were some comments circulating in the Companions thread about lifebonded Companions. That got me thinking about a question I have about lifebonds (though not about Companions; 'fraid I'm starting a new thread). All the lifebonds that Misty has written about have been between either Heralds, Bards, Healers or Tayledras (at least as far as I remember), all of whom are Gifted in one way or another. Does this imply that lifebonds are only possible between two Gifted partners? It seems kind of unlikely to me, since lifebonds are a bond based on unconditional love, which is a different kind of magic altogether :). Maybe unGifted people do lifebond, but just don't recognize it for what it is? Part of the lifebond is a deep connection between the two partners; maybe this is augmented by a mind-magic Gift, and can be felt more deeply by Gifted than not. Then unGifted could lifebond, but just wouldn't feel the bond on the same level as a Gifted pair would, so maybe they wouldn't give it the name. Any thoughts? Julia _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:25:52 EDT From: MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk, susan.hill-+AT+-weyerhaeuser.com Subject: Re: Wicca and Marian Message-ID: <4a.8a7ed91.26af8a10-+AT+-aol.com> OK. I will tell you my source of this piece of seemingly erroneous information. the picture of MZB was in a time life series book about witchcraft. The caption said MZB's name and showed her taking part in a Wiccan ritual I am literate, and know the difference between MZB's name in print and Patricia Kennelly Morrison's. I remember the incident because I was so surprised at the picture... Now I've named my source of information. What is yours? I welcome the opportunity to politely discuss this. Thank you. In a message dated 7/25/00 10:25:50 AM US Eastern Standard Time, susan.hill-+AT+-weyerhaeuser.com writes: << Subj: Wicca and Marian Date: 7/25/00 10:25:50 AM US Eastern Standard Time From: susan.hill-+AT+-weyerhaeuser.com (Hill, Susan) Sender: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-hera ld.co.uk To: mdennis460-+AT+-aol.com > From: MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com > > wiccan.... perhaps. I know that Marion zimmer Bradley was a wiccan, saw > her > picture in a book sometime ago that showed mzb in a wiccan ceremony. > Misty > lackey was one of those writers that MZB helped get a start in publishing. > I > think she bought some of misty's first stories for publication in MZB's > fantasy magazine. I wonder if that is where she got some of her > information > .. that is mentioned in some of these emails messages. > WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. Marion was a devout Christian - an Episcopalian/Church of England follower, if I do believe. Its one of her EXPRESSLY stated opinions - she apparently was very tired of people assuming she had some sort of funky, cult-type, possibly Wiccan faith. You might be thinking of Patricia Kennelly Morrison - who was Jim Morrison's wife. She played the part of a HPriestess in the Doors movie, and thats one of the photo's that's floating around the net. She is a "pagan" - I believe a follower mainly of the old Celtic faiths, but definitely a High Priestess. Suzi ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <.mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk> Received: from rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (rly-yg04.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.4]) by air-yg03.mail.aol.com (v75_b1.4) with ESMTP; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:25:50 -0400 Received: from vanyel.herald.co.uk (vanyel.herald.co.uk [213.38.80.6]) by rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (v75.18) with ESMTP; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:25:39 -0400 Received: from vanyel (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vanyel.herald.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA06444 for <.mdennis460-+AT+-aol.com>; Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:33:05 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:33:05 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <872A9D7CC09CD11188CE00805FBB042E05BFFE20-+AT+-emswwc7.weyer.com> Errors-To: lackey-owner-+AT+-herald.co.uk Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Originator: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Sender: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Precedence: bulk From: "Hill, Susan" <.susan.hill-+AT+-weyerhaeuser.com> To: mdennis460-+AT+-aol.com Subject: Wicca and Marian X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) MIME-Version: 1.0 >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 23:36:45 EDT From: Eeyore9051-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Companions/foresight/lifebonds Message-ID: Few comments and questions Do companions have Foresight and maybe even know their own fate/death. Yfandes at the end of Magic's Price says to Vanyel "I told you I would never leave you when I Chose you. I knew what our bond would come to then, when I first Chose you-and I don't regret my choice." page 326. And when Florian firsts enters Urtho's fortress the other three Companions seem to look at him like they know what's going to happen to him. As to the lifebonds among the ungifted I think it is more unlikely than among the gifted. I don't think it has to do with the fact that they're ungifted....just the fact that many people never leave their intial home. There is no reason for it. Shin'a'in gifted or not rarely leave their own clans let alone the plains.....if their lifebond isn't born to their clan it is unlikely that they'll meet. The same is true of the Tayledras. The other people from other lands (farmers and such) rarely visit other towns let alone move to others...their life is to difficult as it is. The reason that the Heralds bards and such have so many lifebonds is because they are all gathered together. As SIlverfox says to Firesong during Firesong's obsession with finding a lifebond the Herelds collegium is a consintration of all of similar people.....as Silverfox points out if they created other such groups there would be more lifebonds. Someone once asked who the Valdemars worshiped as a God/Goddess/which God/Goddess gave them companions. I don't know anything about that but at some point Karal mentions Vkandis had a female counterpart. The only other female Godess mentions who seems to play a active role in the lives of mortals (one similar to the one that Vkandis plays) is the Star Eyed. I was wondering if the Star Eyed could have been the female counterpart? I was wondering what you lal thought. And on a lighter note...... Florian implied that he would be reborn almost immeaditly....that could be true of Vanyel Stef and Yfandes too. That would make Vanyel reborn (most likely as a companion) at the same time that Savil (his aunt reborn). I think the two of them could cause some trouble...they did when they were alive at least. And with Karal being so close to the artificers you would think they could make a substance like white out for him....as a secretary he seemed to spend a lot of time rewiting things to make them perfect....it would have been easier if they could be erased :) Amada ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2363 **********************************