MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2371 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: List down; Mage Wars by "Robert Martin" 2) RE: List down; Mage Wars by "Rhianna Lynn" 3) Misborn by "Abigail Laughlin" 4) RE: List down; Mage Wars by "Robert Martin" 5) RE: Misborn by "Robert Martin" 6) Re: List down; Mage Wars by Sara Peek 7) Re: List down; Mage Wars by CmdrDTroi-+AT+-aol.com 8) Re: List down; Mage Wars by CmdrDTroi-+AT+-aol.com 9) Re: Misborn by CmdrDTroi-+AT+-aol.com 10) Re: List down; Mage Wars by CmdrDTroi-+AT+-aol.com 11) RE: Misborn by "Robert Martin" 12) Mage Wars; Favorite non-human characters by "Robert Martin" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:29:51 -0400 From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: RE: List down; Mage Wars Message-ID: <002101bffd5f$aacd1270$5001a8c0-+AT+-rmartin1> > In case someone would like a spoiler space, here is one for a question > about someone in > this triology: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kechara - i couldn't tell if she was a "misborn" as in live from a > mating, or created by > Urtho ... I re-read it a couple of times. If she was ... > well, abnormal > is the only > word I can think of, why don't we see other "abnormal" gryphons from > time to time? I think she was "miscreated" not exactly misborn. Although, I'm not certain how a mage construct is done. Were the gryphons made out of whole-cloth or were they magically merged from several other animals? If the first, then it casts some doubt on Urtho's ability as a mage - he made a mistake. If the second, then I'd suspect then that something went wrong in the magical merge and her genetic code was somehow mixed up. Tristaan > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 12:54:39 -0400 From: "Rhianna Lynn" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: List down; Mage Wars Message-ID: <200008031655.MAA05886-+AT+-core.greenapple.com> Heyla! Apparently we're still giving Mage Wars spoiler space, so here's that... Chocolate sheep to anyone who stops here! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now here's my response. (: > I think she was "miscreated" not exactly misborn. Although, I'm not > certain how a mage construct is done. Were the gryphons made out of > whole-cloth or were they magically merged from several other animals? > If the first, then it casts some doubt on Urtho's ability as a mage - > he made a mistake. If the second, then I'd suspect then that > something went wrong in the magical merge and her genetic code was > somehow mixed up. For all that the gryphons deny it, I think they were made from parts of other animals. I think this mainly because of the song and dance routine that they have to go through to reproduce. From some raptor they get that the female has to go hungry and then gorge herself to simulate the end of the lean season, from a snow leapord (I think) they get that the male has to spend so long being cold to get everything at a low enough temperature to be fertile, and so on. I know there are more, but I can't remember them offhand. That should restore faith in Urtho's abilities. (; Wind to thy wings, Rhianna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 17:34:43 GMT From: "Abigail Laughlin" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Misborn Message-ID: <> Obviously there were some--Zhaneel thought she was one. As for why we don't see them... a few reasons leap to mind. 1) Regardless of the frequency or infrequency of Misbirth, much was made of the fact that Misborn just don't live very long. It's hinted, re Kechara, that they have problems with their immune systems. Therefore, any Misborn that turned up would probably only last a few years, and probably would not be leading an active and outgoing life during those years. 2) There's a stigma against them. Zhaneel got picked on, and she was fairly normal; it would only be worse for a real Misborn, so, again, they wouldn't be out visibly in public a great deal. 3) It doesn't fit the storyline. The Mage Wars trilogy never followed a lot of daily gryphon life--The Black Gryphon was set in wartime, so we didn't see any gryphlets or sick gryphons (aside from wounded). It stands to reason that aside from the one with an impact on the storyline, we wouldn't see any Misborn either. The other two books were mostly set a thousand miles from White Gryphon or any other gryphonic settlement, so the only gryphons we saw then were the ones who'd traveled out there. By the next appearance of gryphons (Winds), a lot of time had gone by with no Urtho tweaking gryphon genetics... essentially, the genotype settled down, reducing the chances of Misbirth, possibly eradicating them altogether. Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade and Mor the raven, Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves, Member of the Mistic Circle, Webmaster of the Circle of Stone, Knight and Founding Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes; http://www.angelfire.com/ky/Ashke/ - The Labyrinth ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:40:05 -0400 From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: RE: List down; Mage Wars Message-ID: <002801bffd71$dd08b390$5001a8c0-+AT+-rmartin1> > > Heyla! > Apparently we're still giving Mage Wars spoiler space, so > here's that... > > Chocolate sheep to anyone who stops here! I see your chocolate sheep and I'll raise you a herd of shoo-fly pie flavored sheep. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For all that the gryphons deny it, I think they were made from > parts of other animals. I think this mainly because of the song and > dance routine that they have to go through to reproduce. From > some raptor they get that the female has to go hungry and then > gorge herself to simulate the end of the lean season, from a snow > leapord (I think) they get that the male has to spend so long being > cold to get everything at a low enough temperature to be fertile, and > so on. I know there are more, but I can't remember them offhand. > That should restore faith in Urtho's abilities. (; That it does. So Kechara may have resulted from using an animal part or two that wasn't exactly the perfect specimen, yielding a rather misformed creature. Or, Urtho, in his early experiments with...shoot....what's her name...starts with a Z....well, with her type of gryphon, he didn't get the proportions right the first time. Anything is possible. Tristaan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:12:28 -0400 From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: RE: Misborn Message-ID: <002901bffd7e$c6ce51e0$5001a8c0-+AT+-rmartin1> > Obviously there were some--Zhaneel thought she was one. As > for why we don't > see them... a few reasons leap to mind. > > 1) Regardless of the frequency or infrequency of Misbirth, > much was made of > the fact that Misborn just don't live very long. It's hinted, > re Kechara, > that they have problems with their immune systems. Therefore, > any Misborn > that turned up would probably only last a few years, and > probably would not > be leading an active and outgoing life during those years. > > 2) There's a stigma against them. Zhaneel got picked on, and > she was fairly > normal; it would only be worse for a real Misborn, so, again, > they wouldn't > be out visibly in public a great deal. For both these two reasonse,considering Urtho's treatment of Kechara, it wouldn't be surprising if she wasn't the first one that he kept secluded and content until it lived out its years. We don't know of any others but that doesn't mean there weren't. Tristaan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:38:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Sara Peek To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: List down; Mage Wars Message-ID: <20000803203859.26869.qmail-+AT+-web4605.mail.yahoo.com> --- Julia Gray wrote: > Kechara - i couldn't tell if she was a "misborn" as > in live from a > mating, or created by > Urtho ... I re-read it a couple of times. If she > was ... well, abnormal > is the only > word I can think of, why don't we see other > "abnormal" gryphons from > time to time? I tend to think he created her, since no gryphons knew about a misborn with a powerful mind-gift. Misty could have brought in recaltrant (sp? Is this the word I'm looking for?)gryphon parents who had tried to do her in, but didn't. Also, misborns tend not to live very long, and Urtho was a brilliant mage. He wouldn't have very many. And from mating gryphons, I'd expect about the same rate as humans, if anything. And, some would be born, but not nessisarily featured in stories. Come to think of it, there are few if any disabled humans in Misty's books. One story in SoI comes to mind, but just one. Gee, am I long-winded! Also, on the list being down, I am gettirng ready for school (August 9, darn it!)to start again, and don't have time like I did! :( Cloud-coated sunshine sheep to all! Sara Herald-Mage Rini Chosen by Cinna __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 19:05:13 EDT From: CmdrDTroi-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: List down; Mage Wars Message-ID: <20.99b8dfb.26bb54a9-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 8/3/00 9:29:43 AM Central Daylight Time, jgray-+AT+-oakton.edu writes: Spoiler space << Kechara - i couldn't tell if she was a "misborn" as in live from a mating, or created by Urtho ... I re-read it a couple of times. If she was ... well, abnormal is the only word I can think of, why don't we see other "abnormal" gryphons from time to time? >> I got the imprerssion that Kechara was...well, to put it bluntly, one of Urtho's few....well, mishaps. He knew what he was going for, and it truly would have been a great and powerful being - but he missed his mark. Even if her intelligence did fall way short, her powers were phenomenal, and her body structure, if I remember correctly was perfect for a "Spy Griffon"; had it worked out, Kechara would have been able to fly in, give whatever commander she was working under real time information and get out quickly if need be. As it was, she didn't have the inteligence to deal with the real world alone, let alone make snap tactical decisions. As it stood, she was a sweet, peaceful, loving child....and would be for the rest of her life notwithstanding her abilities. But, andyway, I've babbled on long enough TAZ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 19:18:27 EDT From: CmdrDTroi-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: List down; Mage Wars Message-ID: <64.5471bfc.26bb57c3-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 8/3/00 1:44:43 PM Central Daylight Time, rmartin-+AT+-gatewayticketing.com writes: Spoiler for "Gryphon Series" Z I P P E D E E D O D A H .. .. .. .. .. << That it does. So Kechara may have resulted from using an animal part or two that wasn't exactly the perfect specimen, yielding a rather misformed creature. Or, Urtho, in his early experiments with...shoot....what's her name...starts with a Z....well, with her type of gryphon, he didn't get the proportions right the first time. Anything is possible. >> Especially when you consider the fact that, regardless of his powers, Urtho was human, and as such suseptible to human error. Regardless of how he contrived the species, he goofed occasionally, but the end result, with the exception of the misborn, was well worth it. Personally, I couldn't live without the Gryphons now, from Skan on down, even if we don't see them often, they somehow seem to weave themselves into the saga as if they were a part of the original wool, y'know? TAZ Who can't believe she spelled "Gryphon" Girffon in her last post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OY! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 19:21:02 EDT From: CmdrDTroi-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misborn Message-ID: <50.90bb8fc.26bb585e-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 8/3/00 2:32:47 PM Central Daylight Time, rmartin-+AT+-gatewayticketing.com writes: << For both these two reasonse,considering Urtho's treatment of Kechara, it wouldn't be surprising if she wasn't the first one that he kept secluded and content until it lived out its years. We don't know of any others but that doesn't me >> This is why I'm thinking she was a created being. Why else would Urtho even know of her existence with a war on? And, why didn't he give Zhaneel special guidance? Just a few thoughts. TAZ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 19:26:43 EDT From: CmdrDTroi-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: List down; Mage Wars Message-ID: In a message dated 8/3/00 4:03:13 PM Central Daylight Time, saddlefan-+AT+-yahoo.com writes: << I tend to think he created her, since no gryphons knew about a misborn with a powerful mind-gift. Misty could have brought in recaltrant (sp? Is this the word I'm looking for?)gryphon parents who had tried to do her in, but didn't. Also, misborns tend not to live very long, and Urtho was a brilliant mage. He wouldn't have very many. And from mating gryphons, I'd expect about the same rate as humans, if anything. And, some would be born, but not nessisarily featured in stories. Come to think of it, there are few if any disabled humans in Misty's books. One story in SoI comes to mind, but just one. >> I agree, and one other thought comes to mind...In that room that Skn saw all of the "Models", wasn't there a model of what Kechara was supposed to look like? I don't recall off hand, but it seems to me that Skan realizes, as he's leaving that one of the looked awfully similar to Kechara.....I could be wrong - it's happened before, but I seem to recall that. Just a thought. TAZ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:55:38 -0400 From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: RE: Misborn Message-ID: <003101bffe13$4ac213d0$5001a8c0-+AT+-rmartin1> > This is why I'm thinking she was a created being. Why else > would Urtho even > know of her existence with a war on? And, why didn't he give > Zhaneel special > guidance? Just a few thoughts. This is true. However, why would Urtho, a finite human with the weight of the world resting on his shoulders, give Zhaneel any special guidance? Wasn't she exactly what he had planned for her genome? He did come and meet with her personally to find out about her bravery first hand. Tristaan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:57:12 -0400 From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: Mage Wars; Favorite non-human characters Message-ID: <003201bffe13$82991f10$5001a8c0-+AT+-rmartin1> > Spoiler for "Gryphon Series" > Z > I > P > P > E > D > E > E > D > O > D > A > H > . > . > . > . > . > Especially when you consider the fact that, regardless of his > powers, Urtho > was human, and as such suseptible to human error. Regardless > of how he > contrived the species, he goofed occasionally, but the end > result, with the > exception of the misborn, was well worth it. Personally, I > couldn't live > without the Gryphons now, from Skan on down, even if we don't > see them often, > they somehow seem to weave themselves into the saga as if > they were a part of > the original wool, y'know? Agreed! I think, by far, my favorite non-human character in all of Misty's books would be Skandranon. Followed closely by Gesten, Amberdrake's little lizard guy. Tristaan ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2371 **********************************