MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2380 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Fanfic and copywrite issues. by Kenneth Allen Hyde 2) Re: ADMIN: Re: A Poem Of Valdemar by XShadowXBladeIX-+AT+-aol.com 3) Re: Fanfic and copywrite issues. by winged_wolf-+AT+-juno.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 13:41:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Fanfic and copywrite issues. Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Aug 2000, Dan Halford wrote: > A character in a story is not something you can claim ownership of. The work > itself is copyrighted, which means no-one can use it verbatim. However, you > cannot claim ownership of thought process and mental image. In the US, one of the copyrights that an author owns is the right to create derivative works based on an original work. This means that fan-fic is definitely an illegal violation of the author's copyrights. > Copyright laws here are strict-ish, but I very much doubt that Misty could > ever take legal action against a private individual for copyright theft for > creating a work based upon her ideas, provided the work was indeed original. Actually, I don't think that this is true. Great Britain is one of the signers of the Berne Convention, which is an international treaty guaranteeing that the copyrights of authors in one country will be protected in other countries. So, if someone violates an American author's copyrights in Great Britain, they can still be sued and vice versus. The terms of the treaty also mean that Misty's copyrights, even in other countries, are determined by US legislation whether the infringment took place in the US or not. Of course, some countries are not signatory to the convention, and therefore do not protect copyrights originating from other countries (Don't get me started about Korea; it's a very sore subject in Linguistics). Obviously, international law is a specialized field and there's probably a lot of haggling that would go on and it would probably be much more difficult to pursue legal action across borders, but maybe not. BTW, Dan is using the term correctly, but a lot of people keep writing "copywrites." The term is "copyright" and literally means "right to make copies." As in, a legal right. Despite the sound of the word, it doesn't actually have anything to do with "writing." =) And to correct an error in my previous post. I had not had time to review the actual USC text and was confusing two terms: "publish" and "create." A work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy (i.e., when you write a paper and save it on disk or print it out). It is published when you make a copy or copies (including the original document) available to the public either by selling it or otherwise transferring ownership of the copy or by lending or leasing. In other words, when you post a copy to a mailing list (because you are distributing copies of the work to the public as a free gift). I suppose that, in this case, if you showed the original copy of a work to someone without letting it leave your possession, it would not count as "publishing" the work. And yes, I agree with everyone else that Misty's wishes are at least as important as any legal statute. She has stated many times that she doesn't like un-authorized fan-fic and other derivative works, and I agree that that should be enough. Misty may not be a personal friend, but it still seems really rude to do something that she has specifically asked everyone not to do, when she has given us so much enjoyment. Speaking as someone who has done a little bit of character-creation and world- building, I can sympathize. It's a rather nasty feeling when someone steals your works and does something with them that you may not want done. And that is exactly what it can feel like: stealing. One final note, there is a reason that I responded to the original posting of the poem in the public list. There are certain rules on the list which have no leeway. The "no fan-fic" rule is one of them. Fan-fic puts Mel and the list in jeopardy. Therefore, when someone violates this rule, one of the list councilors needs to make it clear, in public, that there has been no change in policy and that other list members should not take the first violation as license to post their own fan-fic. Back home, we call it "nipping it in the bud." =) I'd rather seem a little harsh towards one person than have a lot of people post their poems and songs and stories and suddenly have the list shut down completely. I hope that this is an understandable motive. =) May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 19:51:53 EDT From: XShadowXBladeIX-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ADMIN: Re: A Poem Of Valdemar Message-ID: ::whispers:: I think the poem was good ::smiles and wonders off:: ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 23:32:44 -0600 From: winged_wolf-+AT+-juno.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fanfic and copywrite issues. Message-ID: <20000813.103401.-261265.16.Winged_Wolf-+AT+-juno.com> On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 00:36:44 +0100 (BST) "Rhianna Lynn" writes: >But what about other > authors? Anne McCaffery? I wrote a poem for class based on her > Pern books when I was in 6th grade before I knew any of this > legality nonsense. Marion Zimmer Bradley? Anyone else whose > works we read and love, but who hasn't said anything about it > specifically? It all depends on the author. Some authors welcome fan-fic in their universes. Anne McCaffrey allows it with some restrictions, I believe. Jacqueline Lichtenberg allows fan-fic in her Sime~Gen Universe series without restraint, and actively aids posting it on the web. Chelsea Quinn Yarbro is another who, like M. Lackey, does not allow it at all. It's a good idea to find out what an individual author's opinion is on fan-fic before you begin distributing it. No, it is not copyright infringement to write down ANY story on a piece of paper. It IS illegal to then distribute it to others to read. If you want to write fan-fic for your own enjoyment, your creation of a single copy on paper or on your hard drive is not considered publishing or distribution of the work--it IS legal. I personally disapprove of M.Lackey's hard-line attitude toward fan-fic, particularly when it's been proven by other authors that it does not devalue the author's own work, or lose them money. This is a personal decision on the part of the author--don't ever think it is anything else. The author does own the copyright to their own work, and they therefore have the right to allow others to use it--if they wish to do so. --Winged Wolf "Pardon me while I burst into flames, I've had enough of the world and its peoples' mindless games So pardon me while I burn, and rise above the flame. Pardon me, pardon me....don't ever be the same...." --Incubus ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2380 **********************************