MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2436 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds by "Rebecca McAllister" 2) Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds by Kenneth Allen Hyde 3) RE: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds by Lisa Whitman 4) Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds by "Li'nia Stormdancer" 5) Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds by Julia Gray 6) Elspeth & Gwena / and a Firesong question by Lisa Whitman 7) Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds by Elindreada-+AT+-aol.com 8) Gala (LHM Spoilers) by Cariad 9) Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds by "Ashes Dust" 10) Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds by Renee 11) Van's story as in AotQ by Kate Tyler 12) Re: Elspeth & Gwena / and a Firesong question by "kristy hibbitt" 13) Re: Gala (LHM Spoilers) by "kristy hibbitt" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:22:55 GMT From: "Rebecca McAllister" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds Message-ID: Heyla Listsibs, > > I think we can safely say that the MOC is a special > > case. Other Heralds do tend to lose it when their > > Companion dies, though (i.e. Tylendel and Lavan). I > > don't think the MOC/MO bond is any weaker, but the MOC > > is a rather special Companion. Maybe being Grove-born > > has something to do with it? Who knows? If that were the case, What would happen if Elspeth died? Would Gwenna, just Move on or would she go nuts? It poses an interesting topic though. Does the not going nuts thing apply to all grove born, or just the MOC? Lots of cute fuzzy pettable sheep to all. Becca _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:01:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Rebecca McAllister wrote: > If that were the case, What would happen if Elspeth died? Would > Gwenna, just Move on or would she go nuts? It poses an interesting > topic though. Does the not going nuts thing apply to all grove born, > or just the MOC? Good question. Let's kill the Brat and find out ! Mwaahahaha! Sorry, it was irresistable. Seriously, since Gwena is not the Monarch's Own's Companion, I would assume that she would have the same reaction as any other Companion. After all, Gwena doesn't seem to have any of the other characteristics of the MOC (no extra-ordinary wisdom, for example). Actually, I don't think that Gwena was terribly well thought-out. After all, why is it necessary to have an inexperienced Companion for Elspeth? Because she can channel mage-energy? I think it might have been a better idea to have a reincarnated Herald-Mage who had some clue about how the world works...(Savil!)...whether or not the Companion could channel energy. BTW, does the text ever say that only Grove-Born Companions can channel mage energy for their Heralds? It's been so long that I've forgotten. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:55:15 -0700 From: Lisa Whitman To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Oct 2000, Rebecca McAllister wrote: > If that were the case, What would happen if Elspeth died? Would > Gwenna, just Move on or would she go nuts? It poses an interesting > topic though. Does the not going nuts thing apply to all grove born, > or just the MOC? It would probably be that Gwena died, because she would be protecting Elspeth in some spectacular fashion. *shrug* Although, in the grand scheme of things, I think that Elspeth has reached the point of "safety" in the Misty world. Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:30:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Li'nia Stormdancer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds Message-ID: <20001026163055.1908.qmail-+AT+-web1205.mail.yahoo.com> Heyla List-Sibs! ======================================================= --- Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: Seriously, since Gwena is not the Monarch's > Own's Companion, I would assume that she would have > the same reaction as any other Companion. After all, Gwena doesn't seem to have any of the > other characteristics of the MOC (no extra-ordinary > wisdom, for example). Actually, I don't think that Gwena was terribly well thought-out. After > all, why is it necessary to have an inexperienced > Companion for Elspeth? Because she can channel mage-energy? I think it might have been a better > idea to have a reincarnated Herald-Mage who had some > clue about how the world works...(Savil!)...whether or not the Companion could channel energy. BTW, does the text ever say that only Grove-Born Companions can > channel mage energy for their Heralds? It's been so > long that I've forgotten. ======================================================= I wholeheartedly agree on this input on Gwena. I also think she'd react the way other Companions would. There should be only one Companion with the same traits as the MOC going at one time, and that should BE the MOC (Rolan, in this case). I don't know why it was necessary that she be Grove-born, either. Although I don't know if putting someone like Savil in her place... Could you imagine the arguments that would have occured?!? lol Maybe they wanted someone who really had no memories of times without the Herald-Mages (except, of course, for the brief time she's had growing up with Elspeth)??? And I don't recall reading anywhere that only the Grove-born Companions could channel energy... but I could be wrong. I'd be more than happy if someone could point out my error there, though! ===== ---<---<---<----+AT+- Li'nia Stormdancer -+AT+---->--->--->--- Peon to the Powers That Be, (Hopeful)Goddess of All Things Possessed, & Caretaker of the Arena of Discussion and Dissention __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:50:57 -0500 From: Julia Gray To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds Message-ID: <39F860F0.50D1C440-+AT+-oakton.edu> I'm going to jump in the fray a little here ... Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: Actually, I don't think that Gwena was terribly well thought-out. After > all, why is it necessary to have an inexperienced > Companion for Elspeth? Because she can channel mage-energy? Li'nia Stormdancer wrote: > > I wholeheartedly agree on this input on Gwena. . . . I don't know why it > was necessary that she be Grove-born, either. > . . . . Maybe they wanted someone > who really had no memories of times without the > Herald-Mages (except, of course, for the brief time > she's had growing up with Elspeth)??? Well, this could either be a misty-ake .... OR ... well, dieties are fallible, aren't they? maybe (and this is quite a leap of reasoning), the deity/deities that foresaw Elspeth foresaw a possible future where a grove born would be needed - ie no human experience to bias her (if Elspeth went to the hawkbrothers), or elspeth turning brattier (i don't think she really ever truly left off being a brat) and needing specific strong mage energies to dampen her or ... they *gasp* could have erred in her need for a grove born. just throwing this out for thought. I hope I didn't quote too much. and I have to admit that i accidently typed groove born (which was a funny mistake) but caught it :-) betha'lis, who now wanders back to lurkdom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:33:53 -0700 From: Lisa Whitman To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: Elspeth & Gwena / and a Firesong question Message-ID: I should have answered this part in my last post, and for that I apologize. I believe that Elspeth needed a GB companion because their power is so much stonger. For instance, Gwena is the only companion that could have possibly communicated with Rolan while Elspeth was training in the Vale. Even if she hadn't gone with her "pre-determined destiny" she still would have been very far away and being unable to communicate would have been rather bad. Also, having a former herlad-mage as a Companion... the Companions still don't seem to want to have their former state as a Herald known to thier chosen... so it might not have been a good idea overall. And a question about Firesong and the Owl series... did it strike anyone as supremely odd and wrong that Firesong was the son of the Iceshadow (sorry.. I don't have the book with me... the vale elder)? That seemed _way_ to contrived for me. Lisa Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: Actually, I don't think that Gwena was terribly well thought-out. After > all, why is it necessary to have an inexperienced > Companion for Elspeth? Because she can channel mage-energy? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:54:27 EDT From: Elindreada-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds Message-ID: <5e.2700744.2729f403-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 10/26/00 9:28:39 AM Central Daylight Time, kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu writes: > > If that were the case, What would happen if Elspeth died? Would > > Gwenna, just Move on or would she go nuts? It poses an interesting > > topic though. Does the not going nuts thing apply to all grove born, > > or just the MOC? > > Actually, I'm of the oppinion the Rolan might not survive Talia, whatever the usual traditions. Rolan and Talia have already shattered quite a few of those. For example, in AotQ, when Talia was thrown into the river by the Blues, Talia was told that her bond with Rolan shouldn't have been strong enough for her to call him yet, but she did and it was. And in either AotQ or AFlight there was the maze test. Keren flat out said that there has never been a bond as strong as the one that Rolan and Talia share. In AFlight, Rolan and Tantris both got into the act of training Talia with her gift, that might have been out of self preservation, but I tend to think it had to do with Rolan helping his chosen. And then, the biggest break in tradition yet, Rolan saving Talia in AFall. The Companions don't interfeer in the affairs of thier chosen, and if it had been any other than Rolan and Talia, that herald would have been deader than dead in that cell. But Rolan stepped in and offered the strenght of the Companions to pull her out. Their bond is obviously different and rather special. Not the normal herald-companion bond, let alone a typical one for the MOC. And as for the other part of the question, I also think Gwena would die if Elspeth died, she certainly made sure Anacar would never, ever be able to bother her chosen ever again. Elin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:34:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Cariad To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Gala (LHM Spoilers) Message-ID: <380852062.972596081481.JavaMail.root-+AT+-web168-ec.mail.com> Heyla all! I've been wondering this since I read the LHM series, and I was prompted by all the recent discussion about souls and lifebonds and such to ask it. We all know that Van, 'Lendel/Stefan, and Yfandes got to stay together and eventually all go to Bermuda. :) But what happened to Gala? I think it would be very unfair for her to have to spend eternity apart from her beloved 'Lendel -- even considering the fact that she repudiated him, you would think she would get the chance to apologise, or something. What do y'all think? wind to thy wings, Cariad ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address -+AT+-email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:14:49 CDT From: "Ashes Dust" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds Message-ID: >From: Julia Gray >Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >To: banshee_ashes-+AT+-hotmail.com >Subject: Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds >Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:04:16 +0100 (BST) > >I'm going to jump in the fray a little here ... > > Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: > >Actually, I don't think that >Gwena was terribly well thought-out. After > > all, why is it necessary to have an inexperienced > > Companion for Elspeth? Because she can channel >mage-energy? > >Li'nia Stormdancer wrote: > > > > > I wholeheartedly agree on this input on Gwena. . . . I don't know why >it > > was necessary that she be Grove-born, either. > > . . . . Maybe they wanted someone > > who really had no memories of times without the > > Herald-Mages (except, of course, for the brief time > > she's had growing up with Elspeth)??? > >Well, this could either be a misty-ake .... OR ... >well, dieties are fallible, aren't they? maybe (and this is quite a leap >of >reasoning), the deity/deities that foresaw Elspeth foresaw a possible >future >where a grove born would be needed - ie no human experience to bias her (if >Elspeth went to the hawkbrothers), or elspeth turning brattier (i don't >think >she really ever truly left off being a brat) and needing specific strong >mage >energies to dampen her or ... they *gasp* could have erred in her need for >a >grove born. > >just throwing this out for thought. I hope I didn't quote too much. and I >have >to admit that i accidently typed groove born (which was a funny mistake) >but >caught it :-) > >betha'lis, who now wanders back to lurkdom > =========================== I don't think so, but it's possible. My opinion is that Gwena was chosen to not have old memories apurpose. Think, a knowledge base, or old memories might have made her bias to old way of working magic and old ettiquette. Look how Sayvil kept on speaking in other peoples heads--NOT HOW THINGS ARE DONE. I do agree that sometimes you have to go against the way things are done --The brat for instance--but it would be TOO rough for a person to come back with previous experiences blocking present experiments. -Ashes ~*~*~Shadow-Lover give me a kiss,~*~*~ ~*~*~so I can join you in the dark abyss.~*~*~ (URL: http://www.geocities.com/banshee_ashes ) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:43:04 -0700 From: Renee To: Subject: Re: Braid: BB Shielding/ Life-Bonds Message-ID: on 10/26/00 9:39 AM, Li'nia Stormdancer at lady_stormdancer-+AT+-yahoo.com wrote: > Heyla List-Sibs! > ======================================================= > --- Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: > Seriously, since Gwena is not the Monarch's >> Own's Companion, I would assume that she would have >> the same reaction as any other Companion. After > all, Gwena doesn't seem to have any of the >> other characteristics of the MOC (no extra-ordinary >> wisdom, for example). Actually, I don't think that > Gwena was terribly well thought-out. After >> all, why is it necessary to have an inexperienced >> Companion for Elspeth? Because she can channel > mage-energy? I think it might have been a better >> idea to have a reincarnated Herald-Mage who had some >> clue about how the world works...(Savil!)...whether > or not the Companion could channel energy. BTW, does > the text ever say that only Grove-Born Companions can >> channel mage energy for their Heralds? It's been so >> long that I've forgotten. > ======================================================= > I wholeheartedly agree on this input on Gwena. I also > think she'd react the way other Companions would. > There should be only one Companion with the same > traits as the MOC going at one time, and that should > BE the MOC (Rolan, in this case). I don't know why it > was necessary that she be Grove-born, either. > Although I don't know if putting someone like Savil in > her place... Could you imagine the arguments that > would have occured?!? lol Maybe they wanted someone > who really had no memories of times without the > Herald-Mages (except, of course, for the brief time > she's had growing up with Elspeth)??? And I don't > recall reading anywhere that only the Grove-born > Companions could channel energy... but I could be > wrong. I'd be more than happy if someone could point > out my error there, though! > > ===== > ---<---<---<----+AT+- Li'nia Stormdancer -+AT+---->--->--->--- > Peon to the Powers That Be, > (Hopeful)Goddess of All Things Possessed, & > Caretaker of the Arena of Discussion and Dissention > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > I think that Gwena was grove born to give her more power to help Elspeth on the quest to find a teacher. When Quentin first sees Gwena and Skif's companion, he remarks that Gwena is miles more powerful than Skif's. Renee ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:48:00 +1300 From: Kate Tyler To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Van's story as in AotQ Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001027174725.00b9f750-+AT+-pop3.paradise.net.nz> De-lurking to ask a question. What do others think about the deference between Van's story proper and the one at the start of AotQ ? As you're all aware in AotQ at the beginning there is a section Talia reads about the prelude to the battle at the (presently named) Forest of Sorrows. Included of course are Van, Stef, a woman herald and two companions. As we all know this is altered Magics Price. No woman herald and only Stef to ride away on Vans companion for help. (If the actual Misty songs covering this event are to be included, there also was no woman herald present.) I've seen this before in the Dragonrider series with inconsistent references to "The Ballad of Moretas Ride" and the actual novel "Moretas Story." Anyone have some plausible, (or completely non-plausible) ideas or explanations about this? Kate ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:15:40 WST From: "kristy hibbitt" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elspeth & Gwena / and a Firesong question Message-ID: >>Lisa Whitman wrote: >> >And a question about Firesong and the Owl series... did it strike anyone as >supremely odd and wrong that Firesong was the son of the Iceshadow (sorry.. >I don't have the book with me... the vale elder)? That seemed _way_ to >contrived for me. > >> I think that the vale elder name was Starshadow or Starsong. I think it was Star something. In a way, it had to be contrived because they needed a plausible excuse to have Firesong come and teach Darion. If that connection wasn't there, ie father and son, it would have been harder to find an excuse to have Firesong teach Darion. nerika _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:20:02 WST From: "kristy hibbitt" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gala (LHM Spoilers) Message-ID: >Cariad wrote: >We all know that Van, 'Lendel/Stefan, and Yfandes got to stay together and >eventually all go to Bermuda. :) But what happened to Gala? I think it >would be very unfair for her to have to spend eternity apart from her >beloved 'Lendel -- even considering the fact that she repudiated him, you >would think she would get the chance to apologise, or something. > >Sorry, I should have sent this in my last mailing. I think that in the >moment that Lendel broke all the rules, her resepect and love for him would >have disappeared for him too. I think that the deeds he did, in her eyes, >were too unforgiveable, even for a Herald and a Companion. It's also a bit of a hairy subject anyway because Lendel actually came back as Stefen and he didn't have a Companion. It would have seemed strange for him to have a companion by the name of Gala because Van might have caught on who he was. nerika >----------------------------------------------- >FREE! The World's Best Email Address -+AT+-email.com >Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com > > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2436 **********************************