MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2448 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) non-heralds by "Hill, Susan" 2) Re: Important Non-Heralds by Lish Monahan 3) Picking and Choosing by "Abigail Laughlin" 4) Re: Important Non-Heralds by "Lisa T" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:59:06 -0800 From: "Hill, Susan" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: non-heralds Message-ID: <872A9D7CC09CD11188CE00805FBB042E05C00154-+AT+-emswwc7.weyer.com> > 1) Important Non-Heralds > by "Layla Voll" > I think this is covered in Elspeth's speech in the Storm series to Natoli - something about there still important jobs to be done that CAN'T be done by Heralds "otherwise the country would be hip deep in Companions.", and those jobs are just as important as the Herald job is - So yes, given Natoli's attitude, I would agree that that there is this "why not me?" feeling for some people (especially non-herald offspring of heralds?) and certainly the Blues have jobs to do (the education driven ones) and you've got good people who are required to over-see the guard, the taxes, the Guilds, and so forth - all these people CAN'T have companions, and they all may have talents that would serve the country better elsewhere, which is why they aren't chosen. just my 1/50th of a dollar. Susan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 19:02:20 -0500 (EST) From: Lish Monahan To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Important Non-Heralds Message-ID: > I'm just curious: what important positions in Valdemar are *not* held by > Heralds? Partly, I'm curious: if you're not hereditary nobility, and don't > have a Healer's Gift, what options other than Herald are open to you? The seneschal is clearly not a herald, since he has his own. The advisors, military leaders, and assorted nobility aren't heralds either. And of course the healers and the bards aren't heralds, and they've got major clout, too. > > I know Healers are not Heralds, and there seems to be an understanding that > Healers are actually needed more than Heralds (or that the Gift is rarer), > so that someone capable of being both a Healer and a Herald would be pushed > towards being a Herald. Ummm.... well, if you're Chosen, you're a Herald, end of story. And obviously having "healer" gifts doesn't mean that you'll be excluded from being a Herald. Talia's gifts are mostly what one would expect of a Mind-healer, not a Herald, but she was Chosen. I suspect being a Herald with the Healing gift would just make you twice as valuable and you'd spend most of your (probably short) career on the front lines of various battles. The various Lords/Ladies aren't Heralds, and I > think that you're required to fulfill your hereditary duties as Lord of > Wassnut, rather than become a Herald, if you're the sole heir to the > Baronacy of Wassnut, for instance. As I said if you're Chosen, you're Chosen, and there is presumably a reason you've been Chosen. I know (Someone help me here, I don't remember the exact reference) that there has been a discussion in at least one of the books about a Herald who was also stuck running his family holdings, but I don't remember what they ended up doing. For the most part, though, if you're the heir and you're Chosen, say good-bye to nobility. Most Heralds of noble rank seem to foist their title and holdings off on the enxt in line in the family. Are the Lord Martial and the Senechal > Heralds? Or do they just have Heralds attached to them? Are they appointed > positions or hereditary? Appointed positions. Don't have to be a Herald, have their own Heralds assigned to them. > I know that Bards aren't Heralds, but I think the implication (from Jadus, > for instance), is that Heralds are more needed than Bards, so that someone > with Talent who was Herald material would be Chosen as a Herald. Just as with the Healers. Heralds can have just about any combination of gifts, but it seems to me that they're only Chosen if someone (the Companions?)) decide that those gifts will be useful. Likewise, > the artisans of the Guilds aren't Heralds, but I think, again, that any > Guild member who *could* be Chosen as a Herald *would* be Chosen. Ditto for > the Guard. Similarly, there are mayors, judges, priests, and other > important people, but, again, if those people were Herald material, I think > they would have been Chosen. They'd be Chosen, but they'd give up whatever their previous job had been. Because of their previosu experience, though, they'd probably be assigned to work with those groups, since clearly they would now how to interact with them and best use their talents and resources. > I guess what I've also been wondering is this: is there a stigma about not > being Chosen? Let's say you're the Mayor of Pleasantville, you've been > elected to multiple consecutive terms in office by unanimous vote, under > your administration Pleasantville has gone from being a decrepit, filthy > slum to a vibrant, bustling town, etc., etc. There is no doubt that you > have touched thousands of lives in a positive way and made your corner of > the world a much better place. Would there still always be a question in > the back of your mind of why you hadn't been Chosen? That's sort of a weird question... I think most people in Valdemar realize just how hard and horrible a life most Herald's have. They respect them, but certainly wouldn't want to be one of them. If you're mayor of a bustling town and everyone loves you, why would you want to give up most of your earthly posessions to go live in a tiny room at the capitol an spend most of your time on the road, getting dirt in your hair, not getting enough sleep (and then half the time on the ground or in the cold). And the populace seems pretty understanding of Gifts, but theyre also still pretty in awe of them. You wouldn't wonder why you hadn't been Chosen unless you had exhibited some sort of ability, seeing stuff, or hearing stuff, or setting stuff on fire... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 00:26:37 GMT From: "Abigail Laughlin" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Picking and Choosing Message-ID: <> This is touched on a bit, I think, in Magic's Promise and Magic's Price... the Healing Gift seems to be among the rarer of the Gifts, and those with that particular Gift are more useful as Healers than as Heralds... the only Herald-Healer documented is Shavri, Chosen, we know, because of Randale's illness. I'll come back to the last comment in a bit, but first... <> This one is touched upon in LHM (despite being the sole heir to the thrones of both Lineas and Baires, Tashir becomes a Herald, but does not go to Haven for training) and in some other books as well. Again, more on this in a bit. <> Kyril in Arrows is the Seneschal's Herald; neither the Seneschal nor the Lord Martial are Heralds (though the Weaponsmaster is). I think traditionally these are appointed positions. <> Well, Heralds die with considerably more frequency than any of these except perhaps Guards... and those involving skill can be taught. :) But now for the Great Big Point of this message... <> Storms covers this question fairly well, and the answer is this: Being a good person does not mean you'll be Chosen. There's not something in your personality that makes you 'capable' of being a Herald. There's not some special attribute that makes you "herald material". You can't be pushed towards being either a Herald or a Healer if you have the Healing Gift. A given person is Chosen to be a Herald because there is something that *particular* person will be able to do, as a Herald, to help the kingdom. Shavri is a stellar example of this: she was Chosen *specifically* because, being lifebonded to Randale and being a Healer, she would be the *only* person capable of extending Randale's life, and being Chosen as King's Own Herald assisted her in that, even though she wasn't really much good for the traditional duties of the King's Own. Similarly, Kerowyn was Chosen because Valdemar needed a new line of defense against its enemies. Yes, they're all good people, but that's not why they were Chosen--it almost seems to be something that inevitably develops as a *result* of being Chosen (Vanyel stands as a decent example of this). The flip side of this is of course that if someone will be able to help Valdemar in a capacity other than that of a Herald, they will not be Chosen, no matter how good a person they are. Stefen and Natoli are examples of this; they're stellar people, but had they been Chosen, they wouldn't have been put into the positions that enabled them to be a help to Valdemar--Stefen, as a Bard, did more towards removing the stigma against "just plain Heralds" than Vanyel, a Herald-Mage, ever did; Natoli fell in with the artificers specifically because she had not been Chosen, and became the link between them and the Heralds (through Karal) that enambled them to help devise a solution to the Mage Storms. So, say, the sole heir to a noble House probably wouldn't get Chosen in the first place--he's of more use as Lord of his House than he is as a Herald. Natoli's particular situation reveals that there is a certain stigma against people who aren't Chosen, but that seems to hinge on whether or not they are in positions that the average person might think would make them more likely to be Chosen (Natoli for instance was the daughter of a Herald). An average person, successful in their chosen profession, probably wouldn't be looked down upon much for not being Chosen. Basically, it's not that a person *can* be Chosen... it's whether or not they *should* be that makes the difference. And, incidentally, the amount of planning and plotting this sort of system would require on the parts of the Powers That Be boggles the mind, truly it does. Incidentally, ever notice that, thus far, no Tayledras or Shin'a'in has ever been Chosen? Not even Darkwind, who's in Valdemar for the duration. I have a couple of theories on this, the first of which being that until recently both cultures had prior commitments to their Goddess and to the land. Such commitments don't conflict with those of being a Herald, but they do supercede them. It will be interesting to see if the neutralizing of Urtho's last remaining magic weapons and of the magical structures of the Pelagirs has any effect on that in the future. Right now, of course, the Tayledras are busy making sure that the re-emerging magical flows don't develop in any harmful ways. The second theory is that, quite simply, being both Tayledras and a Herald would be more coolth than any one person can support. Either one's quite sufficient. :) Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade and Mor the raven, Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves, Member of the Mistic Circle, Webmaster of the Circle of Stone, Knight and Founding Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes; http://www.angelfire.com/ky/Ashke/ - The Labyrinth _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:33:08 EST From: "Lisa T" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Important Non-Heralds Message-ID: Layal said >Would there still always be a question in >the back of your mind of why you hadn't been Chosen? This question was asked in a short story in Sword of Ice. Now while this is not Misty - she approved it so it'll do as an answear until we get one from her *s* Basically - waht was said was that you are choosen if it is felt that you will not make a difference without being choosen. So there ARE good people out there, who don't need to be choosen, who are Herald material. BTW - has it ever crossed peoples minds that there are good people out here who may not want to be choosen - Keisha as an e.g. as they feel hey could do better by being where they currently are? Wind to thy wings Lisa _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2448 **********************************