MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2534 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Who is Mornelithe? by "Robert Martin" 2) RE: Who is Mornelithe? by Kenneth Allen Hyde 3) RE: Who is Mornelithe? by "Rebecca McAllister" 4) Re: Who is Mornelithe? by "Lorna Appleby" 5) RE: Who is Mornelithe? by "Robert Martin" 6) RE: Who is Mornelithe? by david Goodwin 7) RE: Mage Wars by "Robert Martin" 8) Re: Who is Mornelithe? by Julia Gray 9) RE: Who is Mornelithe? by david Goodwin 10) Re: Who is Mornelithe? by david Goodwin 11) RE: Who is Mornelithe? by MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com 12) Re: Mage Wars by troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk 13) Other Mercedes Lackey groups by "Robert Martin" 14) Re: Mage Wars by "Li'nia Stormdancer" 15) Re: Mage Wars by "Molly McAllister" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:25:36 -0500 From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: RE: Who is Mornelithe? Message-ID: <000a01c0a70a$18b21750$7201a8c0-+AT+-rmartin1> > Me being a new member and all i hate to point this out, but > Ma'ar's descendants weren't talented mages, they all had the > mage gift in potential, he set the trigger so that when one > of his descendants tried to call fire it would alert him and > allow him to take over the body, The fire spell was used > because it's generally the first spell that a mage talented > person tries to cast, espcially if they are in danger, > scared. eg The body that ma'ar was usin in the mage storms > trilogy eg fury/change/fate or whatever he took over when the > original owner of the body ran away from home was scared and > tried to call fire to warm himself. It mentions somewhere > that ma'ar might have set his trigger to the fire spell > because it was the first spell someone might cast, hence > someone who would be easy to defeat, unlike an accomplished > mage who would have shields up and be able to fight back. Btw > hi everyone:) Nice catch! I had forgotten that even Andesha was just mage potential until Ma'ar's spirit took over and forced the mage talent on him (or am I remembering incorrectly). I think we had a discussion on ABML (that's alt.books.m-lackey) a while ago on the other potential Ma'ar reincarnations. I think Laerth (Vanyel's final opponent in LHM) was one. Anyone know of any others? Tristaan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:23:06 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: RE: Who is Mornelithe? Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Robert Martin wrote: > Nice catch! I had forgotten that even Andesha was just mage potential until > Ma'ar's spirit took over and forced the mage talent on him (or am I > remembering incorrectly). Well, if Andesha was using a fire-spell (however low-level), he was clearly not just a potential mage, but rather an actual mage...just not a very good or practiced one. This is confirmed by the fact that he was exiled or ran away from the Plains of Dhorisha because he was a mage. Like David, I seem to remember some speculation in one of the books on the subject of Ma'ar's spell and the idea that he chose the fire-spell because it was one of the first spells a new mage would use, and the person in question would probably not be able to fight back. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:10:06 From: "Rebecca McAllister" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Who is Mornelithe? Message-ID: Heyla list sibs, >Me being a new member and all i hate to point this out, but Ma'ar's >descendants weren't talented mages, they all had the mage gift in >potential> > They also had to be of adept potential, otherwise he a.) Wouldn't be strong enoough to complete his master plan, and b.) would have to pop in and out of body's alot before he found a good one. Sorry for the short post, Many snow blower shaped sheep to all, Becca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:35:58 -0800 From: "Lorna Appleby" To: Subject: Re: Who is Mornelithe? Message-ID: <02f001c0a71c$4e51cb00$f240a8c0-+AT+-backtalk.org> I do believe the requirements for the possession were .. 1) Mage talented 2) Adept Potential Those he possessed cast a firespell when alone and he fled in, ripped their personalities to shreds and took up shop. -Lorna -------------------------------- If you can't join 'em, beat 'em. Shadowydreamer's Crossroads http://shadowydreamer.com Why Women Watch Anime http://shadowydreamer.com/Anime Blue Horizon Simming Group http://www.bhsims.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:12:14 -0500 From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: RE: Who is Mornelithe? Message-ID: <000c01c0a721$5fe7f3d0$7201a8c0-+AT+-rmartin1> > Well, if Andesha was using a fire-spell (however low-level), he was > clearly not just a potential mage, but rather an actual > mage...just not a > very good or practiced one. This is confirmed by the fact that he was > exiled or ran away from the Plains of Dhorisha because he was a mage. DOH! You're right again...sheesh, I guess having a 9 month daughter has scrambled my brains... However, I think it was also speculated that even someone of Mage Potential could be possessed by Ma'ar. Anyone know for sure? Tristaan ------------------------------ Date: 7 Mar 2001 08:45:46 -0800 From: david Goodwin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Who is Mornelithe? Message-ID: <20010307164546.1077.cpmta-+AT+-c005.sfo.cp.net> On Wed, 07 March 2001, "Robert Martin" wrote: > > Nice catch! I had forgotten that even Andesha was just mage potential until > Ma'ar's spirit took over and forced the mage talent on him (or am I > remembering incorrectly). > > I think we had a discussion on ABML (that's alt.books.m-lackey) a while ago > on the other potential Ma'ar reincarnations. I think Laerth (Vanyel's final > opponent in LHM) was one. Anyone know of any others? > > Tristaan I believe it was leareth or something but yes he was one of ma'ars' reincarnations also it's mentioned in storm rising i think that there was a sar'terixa the mad who was ma'ar's reincarnation, he caused the deaths of half the warriors of a clan dave ------------------------------------------------------------- Sign up for ICQmail at http://www.icq.com/icqmail/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:12:58 -0500 From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: RE: Mage Wars Message-ID: <000f01c0a729$dc095230$7201a8c0-+AT+-rmartin1> > The_Silver_Gryphon has no use except as a > door-stopper. The_Black_Gryphon is quite good, except > that the second chapter plunges into Amberdrake too > quickly - we're not properly introduced to the > character before we're in the depths of his fear and > vulnerability, which unfortunately has the opposite > effect of distancing us from him. The opening chapter I don't know...I kinda liked that representation because it was a continuation of the opening chapter. Amberdrake was introduced midway through the storyline, waiting for Skan's return from behind enemy lines. The only way we could be introducted to 'Drake some other way would be: a) Start the story line from sometime before Skan's trip which, IMO, would introduce unnecessary text to the story. b) Show us Amberdrake after Skan has returned from his trip which gives the reader whiplash trying to catch-up with the story. I think Misty did the best thing at that point. There are a number of stories out there that start "halfway" through that I think are EXCELLENT stories. This is just another example. > The_White_Gryphon is middling. I like it because > I really like Skan and Amberdrake. I'm not quite sure > I like the portrayal of the Haighlei (sp?): it seems > as if it's 'exoticising the other,' at least in part. > Correct me if I'm wrong. It probably was but, you know, when written from the viewpoint of the inhabitants of White Gryphon, that's the way it needed to be written. Think about it. Here they are, used to a particular society when these ships with people from a radically different culture show up. Wouldn't you view them as exotic? I think by the end of the book, they do become more down to earth...we see the dark side of the society. Tristaan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 11:20:55 -0600 From: Julia Gray To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Who is Mornelithe? Message-ID: <3AA66DF7.2B660707-+AT+-oakton.edu> Rebecca McAllister wrote: > They also had to be of adept potential, otherwise he a.) Wouldn't be strong > enoough to complete his master plan, and b.) would have to pop in and out of > body's alot before he found a good one. and Lorna wrote: > I do believe the requirements for the possession were .. > > 1) Mage talented > 2) Adept Potential > Okay, I seem to remember that he had a few bodies that were journeymen, not adept (no textevd, books at home). Anyone else recall this, or am I all scrambled up as well? I thought there was only one requirement - Mage talent. Betha'lis (re-reading the arrows trilogy right now ... next going to the Vanyel series) ------------------------------ Date: 7 Mar 2001 08:51:48 -0800 From: david Goodwin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Who is Mornelithe? Message-ID: <20010307165148.1356.cpmta-+AT+-c005.sfo.cp.net> On Wed, 07 March 2001, Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: > > On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Robert Martin wrote: > > > Nice catch! I had forgotten that even Andesha was just mage potential until > > Ma'ar's spirit took over and forced the mage talent on him (or am I > > remembering incorrectly). > > Well, if Andesha was using a fire-spell (however low-level), he was > clearly not just a potential mage, but rather an actual mage...just not a > very good or practiced one. This is confirmed by the fact that he was > exiled or ran away from the Plains of Dhorisha because he was a mage. > > Like David, I seem to remember some speculation in one of the books on the > subject of Ma'ar's spell and the idea that he chose the fire-spell because > it was one of the first spells a new mage would use, and the person in > question would probably not be able to fight back. > > May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, > > Cennydd > Councilor of Mist > > He ran away to learn the use of magic among the tale'edras because he didn't want to become a shaman, The fire spell was the first time he'd tried to cast magic, he speculates in one of the MS books that ma'ar might have had a way to force his offspring who had mage potential to try to call fire as well dave ------------------------------------------------------------- Sign up for ICQmail at http://www.icq.com/icqmail/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: 7 Mar 2001 08:55:56 -0800 From: david Goodwin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Who is Mornelithe? Message-ID: <20010307165556.28752.cpmta-+AT+-c005.sfo.cp.net> On Wed, 07 March 2001, "Lorna Appleby" wrote: > > I do believe the requirements for the possession were .. > > 1) Mage talented > 2) Adept Potential > > Those he possessed cast a firespell when alone and he fled in, ripped their > personalities to shreds and took up shop. > > -Lorna > -------------------------------- > If you can't join 'em, beat 'em. > also speculates that a solitary personality was needed hence the callin fire spell while alone, quite possible if someone had a magic teacher the shields they are taught to erect would have kept ma'ar out > Shadowydreamer's Crossroads > http://shadowydreamer.com > > Why Women Watch Anime > http://shadowydreamer.com/Anime > > Blue Horizon Simming Group > http://www.bhsims.com ------------------------------------------------------------- Sign up for ICQmail at http://www.icq.com/icqmail/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:00:14 EST From: MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com To: Subject: RE: Who is Mornelithe? Message-ID: <62.c848d1a.27d7fb5e-+AT+-aol.com> what is the alt. books list m. lackey list? somehow i've not heard of this one. how can one subscribe? thank you! In a message dated Wed, 7 Mar 2001 1:29:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, david Goodwin writes: << On Wed, 07 March 2001, "Robert Martin" wrote: > > Nice catch! I had forgotten that even Andesha was just mage potential until > Ma'ar's spirit took over and forced the mage talent on him (or am I > remembering incorrectly). > > I think we had a discussion on ABML (that's alt.books.m-lackey) a while ago > on the other potential Ma'ar reincarnations. I think Laerth (Vanyel's final > opponent in LHM) was one. Anyone know of any others? > > Tristaan I believe it was leareth or something but yes he was one of ma'ars' reincarnations also it's mentioned in storm rising i think that there was a sar'terixa the mad who was ma'ar's reincarnation, he caused the deaths of half the warriors of a clan dave ------------------------------------------------------------- Sign up for ICQmail at http://www.icq.com/icqmail/signup.html >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 22:13:21 GMT From: troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mage Wars Message-ID: <200137221715441-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk> On 03/07/01 05:08:11 Ambermoon wrote: > The_Silver_Gryphon has no use except as a >door-stopper. Or a charm to keep mutant wyrsa away from your door? :P The_Black_Gryphon is quite good IMO the best of the three, yep. Personally I thought it was far too short... would've liked to see a LOT more about Urtho and from Urtho's and other sympathetic chars' POV. But then, I'm a Robert Jordan fan ;) > The_White_Gryphon is middling. I like it because >I really like Skan and Amberdrake. I'm not quite sure >I like the portrayal of the Haighlei (sp?): it seems >as if it's 'exoticising the other,' at least in part. Hmm, I didn't think Misty did any more to "exoticise" the Haighlei than she did the Shin'a'in or the Tayledras when she first introduced them. Guess it's a matter of interpretation... >Are there any other New Englanders having problems with >all this snow? Don't know about New Englanders, but this Old Englander has had enough snow lately - two inches here in Kent again this last weekend. Making three weekends in a row now. With rain in between...oh joy :P Trollhugs and warm dry sheep to all, Muranog Shadowbane Troll Battle Adept of Earth and Fire Member of the Circle of Stone ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:13:12 -0500 From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: Other Mercedes Lackey groups Message-ID: <000001c0a753$cd5ca960$7201a8c0-+AT+-rmartin1> > what is the alt. books list m. lackey list? somehow i've not > heard of this one. how can one subscribe? > > thank you! alt.books.m-lackey is a usenet newsgroup. You need a newsreader like Microsoft Outlook or Forte Free Agent to download and read the messages. I guess it's similar to an e-mail list like this one only rather than being sent to your e-mail account, you download the list of posted messages from the news server. That group is an un-moderated group so we don't _always_ discuss Misty's works up there. There are a lot of regulars that have been there a while (like me) who fill the gaps between Misty discussions with what you would term "fluff" here. It's worth a look see if for no other reason than to meet other people who enjoy Misty's works. Look me up there. I run this tavern called the Ogre and the Elf. I'm also the local God of Grilled SPAM as well as a God of Summer (we have our own pantheon). SPAM flavored sheep to all. Tristaan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:54:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Li'nia Stormdancer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mage Wars Message-ID: <20010308025425.1243.qmail-+AT+-web1202.mail.yahoo.com> Heyla List-Sibs! > > The_White_Gryphon is middling. I like it >> because I really like Skan and Amberdrake. I'm not >>quite sure I like the portrayal of the Haighlei >>(sp?): it seems as if it's 'exoticising the other,' >>at least in part. > > Hmm, I didn't think Misty did any more to > "exoticise" the Haighlei than she > did the Shin'a'in or the Tayledras when she first > introduced them. Guess it's > a matter of interpretation... I have to agree here. In her Oath books, she made the Tayledras seem very exotic and mysterious to people who'd never encountered them before (when Tarma and Kethry were traveling together through the Pelagirs for the first time). And she made them seem pretty strange when Elspeth first encountered them, and then when they all traveled back to Valdemar. Karal thinks they are very strange and exotic when he first sees them in Court. I don't think she'd done as much with the Shin'a'in, although she did make them sound exotic to outsiders. Maybe she didn't go to the extemes with them because they'd had more contact with the rest of Velgarth. So I think she stayed true to form and didn't go too far when she was introducing us and her chars to the Haighlei. But, then again, I'm a sucker for descriptive writing... lol ===== ---<---<---<----+AT+- Li'nia Stormdancer -+AT+---->--->--->--- Peon to the Powers That Be, Goddess of All Things Possessed, & Caretaker of the Arena of Discussion and Dissention __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 05:12:31 -0000 From: "Molly McAllister" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mage Wars Message-ID: Heyla List-sibs, As far as the Mage Wars Books, I loved the Black Gryphon, liked the White Gryphon, and had to shove my way through The Silver Gryphon. It took me two weeks to read that book, I just kept on avoiding it. I must say that I think that it would have been much better if it were a short story. I was also a little annoyed at the way that it had practically nothing to do with the first two books. I must say that it definately had the feel of a "Must fill in the third book for a trilogy" book. I was very dissappointed with it. I have a little question. Okay, so we know that Tannim shows up in Jinx High, right. My question is, how many cross-series cameos has Misty done. This is the only one I can think of right now. Can anyone else think of any others? Well, special "mid-term passing" sheep to all. WTTW Starshadow* She'enedra to Lightsong Royal Defender of the Brat _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2534 **********************************