MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2549 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) MO and other thoughts by "Hill, Susan" 2) Re:MO and other thoughts by "~*~ Ciara ~*~" 3) Reincarnation, Rolan, and You. by "Abigail Laughlin" 4) Re: MO and other thoughts by Ilaria1431-+AT+-aol.com 5) Re: Reincarnation, Rolan, and You. by Ilaria1431-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: MO and other thoughts by MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com 7) RE: other books by "Janos Bornemisza" 8) Re: Reincarnation, Rolan, and You. by Kenneth Allen Hyde 9) Re: MO and other thoughts by LunaDrkwd-+AT+-aol.com 10) Braid: Rolan/Technology/Other Stuff... by "Li'nia Stormdancer" 11) Re: Misty Comp Lit. by "Layla Voll" 12) Re: Reincarnation, Rolan, and You. by =?iso-8859-1?q?Jasmin=20Haviland?= 13) Eclipses and short stories by Julia Gray 14) Rolan (various bits) by "Layla Voll" 15) Re: Rolan (various bits) by "Lorna Appleby" 16) On Rolan re: two different threads by mclouds-+AT+-cc.wwu.edu 17) Re: Rolan (various bits) by "Devin Alicia Harris" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:19:22 -0800 From: "Hill, Susan" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: MO and other thoughts Message-ID: <872A9D7CC09CD11188CE00805FBB042E05C004EE-+AT+-emswwc7.weyer.com> re: rolan and his age... I always assumed that Rolan kinda fuzzed the memory of everyone as he aged - I mean if the companions did that for "magic" and Rolan's life span being a sort of magic, that might account for the fact that no one's running around going "ROLAN's FREAKING OLD" - but instead the only thing they say is "The monarch's own never seems to age...etc.." A rather abstract perspective. They never mention the Queen's own before whats-his-name that Talia replaced. You'd think they would - at least in passing as a reference for Talia while she's a Grey. The other thing (re: Rolan has a complex from all his Heralds dying off) I think I vaguely recall from the Herald Mage series was something along the lines of Fandes saying "I knew it would come to this when I Chose you, and I would do it again." I think its at the end of the Magic's Price. So if, we go with the philosophy so evident in Velgarth, that the deities give you CHOICE in your life, and there's not so much Fate, then perhaps the Companions get the same type of choice - but being divine creatures, they get a chance to see how the world would be with out the pairing, vs. how it would be with it - Like Van saw with the Shadow Lover. I dunno. I have a hard time thinking that Companions and Heralds are fated to pair up the way they do - but maybe they are, after all its a life bond sort of thing, and that doesn't appear to have much in the way of "choice" about it. RE: Other book ideas I personally wanted to figure out what happened to Ghost and Tashir - I mean there's a passing reference to him later on, but I always wondered about Ghost and what kind of Herald Tashir would end up being. Obviously, his "kingdom" is absorbed by Valdemar at some point, but still... I never fully understood the "Ghost as mindhealer" thing. -Susan ------------------------------ Date: 23 Mar 2001 00:37:58 -0000 From: "~*~ Ciara ~*~" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:MO and other thoughts Message-ID: <20010323003758.3641.qmail-+AT+-purina.chek.com> Susan Wrote: They never mention the Queen's own before whats-his-name that Talia replaced. You'd think they would - at least in passing as a reference ~*~ yes they do mention Talmar, at one point talia asks Sherill about Talmar saysing that it's something she needs to know so she can be prepared, this is after the bullying starts. She than asked if they would try to kill her, Sherll says yes, and tells her to stay in groups with other trainees. S P O I L E R "Well, alot of us suspec he was poisoned." p.94 Not to be uppity or anything though (climbs off high horse now) Th queen also mentions stuff about Talmar, about how he was going to send Elsbeth to realitives of his to 'strighten her out'. . . OK then, I'm done *meek now* Sorry if I was snotty!! :) :) ________________________________________________________________ Get Free Anime Email, News, Links, Forums and Shopping at http://www.AnimeNation.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:56:17 -0000 From: "Abigail Laughlin" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Reincarnation, Rolan, and You. Message-ID: <> <> Let's not forget one key fact--the MOC never ages, though since he can be killed he's not exactly immortal. Also, though a normal Companion doesn't usually outlive his/her Chosen, there is no indication that this is true of MOCs; not only does Rolan survive Talamir, but Taver, the MOC in Vanyel's time, first outlives Lancir and then is expected to Choose Jisa once Shavri has died. This seems to imply that the MOC does not usually follow any of his Chosen into death, but simply Chooses a new MO to fill the space. Therefore, it's not really necessary for Rolan to have been reincarnated at all--he will simply live until something kills him, at which point a new MOC will emerge from the Grove and take his place. I suppose we could speculate, not for the first time, as to whether or not it's the *same* spirit coming out of the Grove each time a new MOC emerges, but wouldn't that get awfully tiring for the spirit in question? I mean, if that's the case, then his retirement prospects really suck. You'd think they'd let him have a rest eventually, especially if, on average, a MOC lives several hundred years. Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade and Mor the raven, Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves, Member of the Mistic Circle, Webmaster of the Circle of Stone, Knight and Founding Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes; http://www.angelfire.com/ky/Ashke/ - The Labyrinth _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:25:50 EST From: Ilaria1431-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MO and other thoughts Message-ID: <82.884eafe.27ec0e2e-+AT+-aol.com> --part1_82.884eafe.27ec0e2e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, they do mention the man Talamir replaced....his name was Kegveighn (okay, so it's spelled wrong), and Rolan was his Companion, but it is only mentioned in passing in one place in one of the Arrows books, and it never says how he died, or anything about him. Of course, he would have been King's Own for Selenay's father, like Talamir was (or, at least, from the way I read the text, I *assume* he was already MO when Selenay became Queen). Herald Jacquelle "Why is that when you talk to God, you're praying, but when God talks to you, you're nuts?" Monica, Touched by an Angel --part1_82.884eafe.27ec0e2e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, they do mention the man Talamir replaced....his name was Kegveighn (okay,
so it's spelled wrong), and Rolan was his Companion, but it is only mentioned
in passing in one place in one of the Arrows books, and it never says how he
died, or anything about him.  Of course, he would have been King's Own for
Selenay's father, like Talamir was (or, at least, from the way I read the
text, I *assume* he was already MO when Selenay became Queen).


Herald Jacquelle

"Why is that when you talk to God, you're praying, but when God talks to you,
you're nuts?"  Monica, Touched by an Angel --part1_82.884eafe.27ec0e2e_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:36:25 EST From: Ilaria1431-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reincarnation, Rolan, and You. Message-ID: <27.12c68992.27ec10a9-+AT+-aol.com> --part1_27.12c68992.27ec10a9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Raven commented about whether the MO was the same spirit continuously reincarnated..... Personally, I would guess no, it isn't. As Raven commented, the retirement benefits of that job would be nil. Also, we KNOW that there have been more than one Groveborn spirit in existence at one time....first at the original incarnations of Companions when they were ALL Groveborn, and then with Gwena being "born"....so it's not like there's some rule against there being more than one GB spirit in Companion form. But don't you suppose Rolan would be tired by now of living so long in such a difficult job? Herald Jacquelle "Why is that when you talk to God, you're praying, but when God talks to you, you're nuts?" Monica, Touched by an Angel --part1_27.12c68992.27ec10a9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Raven commented about whether the MO was the same spirit continuously
reincarnated.....

Personally, I would guess no, it isn't.  As Raven commented, the retirement
benefits of that job would be nil.  Also, we KNOW that there have been more
than one Groveborn spirit in existence at one time....first at the original
incarnations of Companions when they were ALL Groveborn, and then with Gwena
being "born"....so it's not like there's some rule against there being more
than one GB spirit in Companion form.  But don't you suppose Rolan would be
tired by now of living so long in such a difficult job?

Herald Jacquelle

"Why is that when you talk to God, you're praying, but when God talks to you,
you're nuts?"  Monica, Touched by an Angel --part1_27.12c68992.27ec10a9_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:59:14 EST From: MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MO and other thoughts Message-ID: <9a.11d27308.27ec1602-+AT+-aol.com> --part1_9a.11d27308.27ec1602_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wasn't the name of talia's predecessor talamir? --part1_9a.11d27308.27ec1602_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wasn't the name of talia's predecessor talamir? --part1_9a.11d27308.27ec1602_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 03:01:30 From: "Janos Bornemisza" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: other books Message-ID: Hi to all those on the list, Just wanted to drop in a thought on the 'if you like Misty you might like...' front: Robin Hobb - I've read the 'Farseer Trilogy' (Assasins Apprentice, Royal Assassin and one whose name escapes me - curses, books in wrong house) but the friend who introduced me to Hobb also highly recommends the next trilogy in that world. I think the books are brilliant - a little darker then a lot of Mistys works but with a similar attention to world building and outstanding depth of character. Hobb is one of the few authors other then Misty that seems to be able to invoke real emotional connections to the characters. You really _care_ about what happens to them. Damn - I hope someone else whose read them can present a more coherent argument. They are exceptionally well written, subtle and deep and I would recommend them to anyone - what else can I say. .. .. .. And as to a series following life in the collegium, that's been on my wish list ever since Arrows finished! Anyone else who really likes this idea or is everyone waiting for the books that were supposed to be out next? Peaceful sheep to all, JB _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:12:25 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Reincarnation, Rolan, and You. Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Abigail Laughlin wrote: > I suppose we could speculate, not for the first time, as to whether or > not it's the *same* spirit coming out of the Grove each time a new MOC > emerges, but wouldn't that get awfully tiring for the spirit in > question? I mean, if that's the case, then his retirement prospects > really suck. You'd think they'd let him have a rest eventually, > especially if, on average, a MOC lives several hundred years. Yes, but don't forget that Grove-Born Companions (which obviously includes the Monarch's Own's Companion) are not human spirits. (This also addresses a comment someone--I forget who exactly--made earlier on the list.) There is no reason to assume that they have the same needs and goals as other Companions, whose needs/personality are still essentially human, or at least mortal. Perhaps the reason that Rolan (or any other MOC) doesn't seem to repine and/or die when his Chosen dies is that he doesn't have the same kind of bond with them. This might also offer another explanation of the puzzle of why Van thought Taver would Choose him when Lancir died. Maybe the MOC's bond can subsume any existing Companion/Herald bond because it is fundamentally different. I have to admit that after 5 years of seeing this topic come up again and again, I'm happy to have been brought to a new idea. =) It just goes to show that even "done to death" topics can be discussed anew. =) May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:31:06 EST From: LunaDrkwd-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MO and other thoughts Message-ID: ::briefly stepping out from behind her tree:: personally that is one I have alswys wondered about too, I would also like to know what happened to the heartstone in his new country during the mage storms. I dont remember it ever being mentioned in any of the books. I was re-reading Owlknight yesterday and Firesong asked Darian to touch ALL the heartstones, and the book mentioned all the ones in the various Vales and the one in Haven but not that one...any ideas anyone?? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 06:56:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Li'nia Stormdancer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid: Rolan/Technology/Other Stuff... Message-ID: <20010323145604.8154.qmail-+AT+-web1202.mail.yahoo.com> Heyla List-Sibs! --- Kasebones-+AT+-cs.com wrote: > Ok, I'm a bit confused. If Rolan was the King's > Own's Companion, 200 years ago, why is he still >around? Is there a continuous reincarnation of > "Rolans"? I think it said somewhere that the Herald > doesn't survive long w/o the Companion, (or maybe it >was the other way around Magic's Pawn, perhaps?) > Anyways, After all of these Monarch's Own's, > wouldn't Rolan be a little upset that his Heralds >kept dying off? ( A little morbid, maybe?) I don't believe that there's been a "continuous reincarnation of Rolans". IIRC, the MOC doesn't age like normal Companions. However, the MOC can be killed like anyone else. Maybe Rolan has just been lucky?!? lol And, unlike other bondings between Heralds and Companions, where one won't out-live the other, the MOC will choose another Herald as the MO to replace his last Herald (i.e. Talia was Chosen to replace Talamir (sp?)) He's definetely an old spirit, though. I think his bondings are a little different than other Companions, something that lets him live on even when his Herald is dead. Which makes me curious: Were all the Grove-Born like that? Will Gwena be like that? Is it something that is specific to the MOC, or does/did it apply to them all? And if so, can he just choose to die? Like it's been said, he must get tired of seeing his Chosen age and die, and he continues on... Although, from a practical point of view, it's very handy to have a set of eyes that's as old as his, so he can help guide his Chosen. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Moonstalker wrote: >I was re-reading magic's promise for the thousandth >time last night and was reading about how Stef's >abilities are being copied by the healers although >both parties have to be in trance. what i was >wondering is that over time and through the novels >the healing has advanced enough so that the healers >who are speed healing talia can do it while she is >consious. this brings up quite an advancement in the >healers' work etc. but i can't see any other >major advancements that have really happened between >van's time and the arrows/winds/storms/owls. has >anyone else noticed this (or am i going insane) or >has anyone got any examples of techological >advancement in the books. don't get me wrong i love >all the books how they are and wouldn't want someone >inventing something as world-destroying as >electricity but shouldn't something have advanced? >even a little bit? I've wondered about that a bit myself, at least for the technological part. The Healers do seem to have advanced a little bit, although I must argue that Stef's abilities had more to do with pain-blocking than Healing. But, the Healer's do seem to have figured out a way to do that without the music, since they use it on Talia. However, doesn't the person still lose some consiousness with the pain-blocks? Doesn't Talia refuse them for a little while as she's trying to tell everyone what happened? As for the technology, while I am glad that things like electricity and gunpowder (for weapons) haven't been discovered yet, I think it would be only a matter of time. The people like Natoli have made great strides in trying to figure out things like steam-powered devices; they even talk about trains! So, the ideas are there now. Maybe they just didn't have the right people working together to come up with these ideas prior to this? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And on another note, the issue with the one-liners... While I am lucky enough to not have to pay based on the number of emails I get, some our List-Sibs must. Hence, the issue with the one-liners. Sometimes even I'm bad about this, but I generally try to braid my letters together. Or ramble on so much that it can't be considered a 'one-liner'... Nah... lol But, seriously, our Councilors aren't trying to be nit-picky, but trying to be considerate to everyone... Oh, and on the subject of the hopefully-upcoming Collegium series... Is it going to be just about the Herald Trainees, or will it contain stuff about the Bardic and Healing Trainees? I'd like to see some of their viewpoints on life at the Collegium as well. Or, perhaps, a POV of a Companion Choosing one of those Herald Trainees. (I know, we've seen some of the actual Choosing (Is that right? lol) before, but I'd like to see how a Companion feels when he/she knows they have to find their Chosen, but doesn't know exactly who yet? Or do they know the name and face of their Chosen before they meet)? Gah... Sorry for the rambling! Whatever-you-desire sheep to everyone! ===== ---<---<---<----+AT+- Li'nia Stormdancer -+AT+---->--->--->--- Peon to the Powers That Be, Goddess of All Things Possessed, & Caretaker of the Arena of Discussion and Dissention __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:52:36 From: "Layla Voll" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty Comp Lit. Message-ID: Cennydd, Councilor of Mist writes: > > Interesting. "Not liking the future set out for you" appears to be > a >common theme for ML heroes and heroines, and fantasy/adventure > heroes in >general > >I think it would probably be more accurate to say that the theme is "not >fitting in." The classic "I am a stranger in a strange land" sort of >feeling that impels the character out of their initial place in the >narrative world and into the mainstream of the narration. This is one of >the most common strategies in narration for initiating the plot. True. I suppose the opposite is the "reluctant hero," people who are also unhappy with the future set out for them, but eventually stick with it and rise to their heroic future. (Odysseus, I suppose, and all those other Greeks who tried to avoid Fate.) I can't think of any ML heroes who fit, although I have seen fantasy books who might (Simon Green's "Blue Moon Rising," for instance). > > Elspeth seems to be the only one not labeled an outcast for it. > >True, although I seem to remember that *she* felt out of place and a >misfit in her world. Right, and she does get some grief for her decisions, but all in all, she also gets a lot of support. None of this "Selanay has no daughter Elspeth" stuff. >Boy, talking about this stuff makes me want to get out my comp lit paper on >strategies of narration and start working on that again. Who knows, I >might get a couple of publishable papers out of it. And that couldn't hurt >when I'm out on the job market. =) Naaaaaah. I've got too much to do as >it is. I'll just throw out off-the-cuff remarks on the list until someone >hits me over the head with a semiotic sheep. =) But doesn’t this count as refereed, online publishing? oh, and -- >At 20:44 21/03/2001 +0000, you [that would be me] wrote: > > I always had the sense that it [Sun and Shadow] was a tragic > > story, with the lovers always doomed to be separated, throughout a > >series of multiple lives. > > Layla > >I don't know about a series of multiple lives, what I am sure of is that at >the end of there life they got to be together even if only for a short >time. If I am remembering things right. Don't they get to be together at >don and dusk. Which is how they meat then, after at some time there was an >eclipse, which set them free at least for the time of the eclipse. > >Kate You’re right – I reread the bit in Arrow's Flight where Dirk and Talia are singing "Sun and Shadow," and it’s described as a song about two of the first Heralds who lived through a terrible curse until it was finally sorted out. Maybe some day I'll figure out where I got the idea that they were actually reincarnated into the same curse over and over again. But – an eclipse?? I hate convenient total solar eclipses. There are far too many of them in literature for my tastes. (The eclipses in "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" and "King Solomon's Mines" spring immediately to mind, in case there are any list-sibs who don't happen to share my bizarre anti-eclipse pet peeve.) Layla _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:19:45 -0800 (PST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jasmin=20Haviland?= To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reincarnation, Rolan, and You. Message-ID: <20010323161945.93679.qmail-+AT+-web11606.mail.yahoo.com> --- Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: > Perhaps the reason that Rolan (or any other > MOC) doesn't seem to repine and/or die when his Chosen dies is that he > doesn't have the same kind of bond with them. This might also offer > another explanation of the puzzle of why Van thought Taver would Choose > him when Lancir died. Maybe the MOC's bond can subsume any existing > Companion/Herald bond because it is fundamentally different. That is a lot like what I always thought. The MOC can outlive their herald because it's not as deep a bond. On the flip side, I seriously doubt that Rolan is going to survive Talia's death. The depth of their bond continually surprises everyone... including Rolan if I remember right. Remember how surprised he was to find Talia in his head? And the way that he co-ordinated Talia's rescue doesn't seem like something the MOC normally does. Or is it just me? Anywho, I second the lovely person in wishing luck to us poor fools who are in the middle of mid-terms! Jessie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:40:24 -0600 From: Julia Gray To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Eclipses and short stories Message-ID: <3ABB7C78.3713DBC4-+AT+-oakton.edu> Layla Voll wrote: > But – an eclipse?? I hate convenient total solar eclipses. There are far > too many of them in literature for my tastes. (The eclipses in "A > Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" and "King Solomon's Mines" spring > immediately to mind, in case there are any list-sibs who don't happen to > share my bizarre anti-eclipse pet peeve.) I always thought of them as a variant of the deus ex machina tradition (btw, if anyone saw the US televised special "Olive the Other Reindeer, that was probably my favorite moment). Now for an obmisty: I was wondering what people's favorite short stories by Misty were - either in one of her own collections, or in someone elses (and please tell us where!). I think I've read most of her short stories, but ... well, you can't be sure and this might be a way to find a new one. Now I'll have to go home and refresh my memory on them so I can offer an opinion. Julia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:00:00 From: "Layla Voll" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Rolan (various bits) Message-ID: Sara Peek writes: >It's interesting to see the different views people >(including Companions) have of Rolan. In BB you get >the impression of leader/father, big imposing guy and >all, and then in Arrows, still someone confident, but >also much more familiar and less held in awe, by >everyone, not just Talia. This is pretty loose >reasoning, but could he have been "new" then? Not >have... um... existed very long? Interesting idea: it does seem that the humans in Talia's time regard Rolan with a little more affection, although still with a lot of respect. On the other hand, the other *Companions* still seem to hold him in a great deal of awe: I seem to remember that part of the reason Tantris didn’t give Kris even a hint that Talia was not in control of her Gift was because Rolan didn’t want it known, and Rolan was senior to Tantris, so regardless of what she may have thought privately, she wasn't going to go against him. As for the way the humans regard Rolan: the MOC does need to adapt to the varying needs of the different MOs. Perhaps Talia needed a much more approachable MOC than the MO in BB did. For one thing, one of her most important early tasks is de-Bratting Elspeth, and part of that is getting her comfortable again around Companions, to the point where she even rides Rolan. KC writes: >Anyways, After all of these Monarch's Own's, wouldn't Rolan be a little >upset that his Heralds kept dying off? ( A little morbid, maybe?) Yes, but he does expect it – I mean, he knows that he's probably going to outlive his Chosen. And he knows that this is necessary, because losing both the Monarch Own and the Monarch's Own Companion at the same time would probably be immensely destabilizing. His experience is certainly incredibly necessary for the success of the new Monarch's Own. I mean, I don’t think he LIKES having his Chosen die, but I imagine he feels somewhat the same way that Alberich does when his students are killed: he hates it, and it probably rips out his heart each time, but he still continues because the rest of the Collegium and Valdemar itself need him. And I really liked Julia's comment – that he must be somewhat comforted in knowing that they will find complete happiness after death. (Rolan, that is -- I have no idea what Alberich's views on life after death are.) I know that there's also been lot of discussion as to whether or not the Herald/Companion is preordained or not, and whether it's really like a lifebond or not, but I like Cennydd's comment that, regardless of what is true for regular Heralds and Companions, the MOC/MO may be different. I'm curious – in most cases, is the Monarch's Own usually someone with some experience? Someone who was already a Herald? It seems to me that people were surprised at how young Talia was, although they saw the logic behind Choosing such a young Queen's Own. But I'm wondering if that might partially account for why Rolan's bond with Talia is so strong – that perhaps he doesn't usually Choose someone whose never Chosen before, so that, as her first and only Companion, her bond with him is automatically stronger than it is normally. Layla _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:54:33 -0800 From: "Lorna Appleby" To: Subject: Re: Rolan (various bits) Message-ID: <02c301c0b3d3$149bf390$f240a8c0-+AT+-backtalk.org> All this talk of MOC choosing existing Heralds makes me wonder.. What happens to the Herald's first companion? Does he/she die? Do they go off and find another chosen? Do they wander around the Companion's field until they pass on from old age? As to whether the Companion *knows* .. I think they'd have a vague idea and go forth and look for what they want.. In the first Owl book it was looking like Shandi's (sp?) companion was going to choose Keisha until she "protested" .. Of course, that could be a flight of fancy on Keisha's part.. but it leads *me* to believe a companion goes forth to find a certain type of person who can serve in a certain way.. -Lorna ------------------------------------- I'll be nicer, if you'll be smarter. Shadowydreamer's Crossroads http://shadowydreamer.com Why Women Watch Anime http://shadowydreamer.com/Anime Blue Horizon Simming Group http://www.bhsims.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:47:36 -0800 From: mclouds-+AT+-cc.wwu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: On Rolan re: two different threads Message-ID: <3ABBB668.3449331-+AT+-cc.wwu.edu> Ifen it's OK, I'd like to start with a "Well said!" Just got Jasmin and Layla's last communications. I agree that Rolan will undoubtably pass on with Talia and that Layla's comparison with Alberich is likely apt. (I'll tell the bartender at your favorite pub to buy you both your favorites) Anyway, so this isn't just a glorified "me too", the question of what happens to Rolan after death is an interesting one. Heralds, of course, have choices, but where do you go when you've been top of the chart. To use Christian imagery, if Herald's are saints and Companions are cherubim, the MOC is seraphim. You've got nowhere further to go but reunion with the Godhead (Magic's Price). Then again, Grove-born are "new" spirits and might enjoy life back down on the bottom. Hmmm. Cheers! Scott McLoud, Man of Mystery (as in "what did he do that for?") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:11:05 -0800 From: "Devin Alicia Harris" To: Subject: Re: Rolan (various bits) Message-ID: <000701c0b3e6$29528de0$2d861c0c-+AT+-computer> I have a vague recollection of Misty saying that the Herald's first Companion is free to re-Choose if their Herald is Chosen by the MOC...I think, perhaps, I read it on the Firebird Q&A site? And I *think* she said something about the first Companion not *really* Choosing that person (although neither Companion or Herald knows it), which is why the bond can be replaced. Does anyone else remember hearing/reading this? If it's true, and not just something my subconscious dreamed about reading on the Web (hey, that happens to me!), I'm not entirely sure I'm happy with it; it smacks too much of complete predestiny. Dev http://greendragon.fanspace.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Lorna Appleby To: Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Rolan (various bits) > All this talk of MOC choosing existing Heralds makes me wonder.. What > happens to the Herald's first companion? Does he/she die? Do they go off and > find another chosen? Do they wander around the Companion's field until they > pass on from old age? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2549 **********************************