MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2576 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: Bardic gift? by "Robert Martin" 2) Bardic Gift, Karal by Abby Normal 3) Re: Bardic gift? by "M'lady Silver" 4) Re: Bardic Gift, Karal by Veronica M Maddox 5) Re: Bardic Gift, Karal by Heather Lee 6) roll call by david Goodwin 7) Re: Bardic gift? by Scott 8) Re: Bardic gift? by MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com 9) Re: Bardic Gift, Karal by "Lorna Appleby" 10) Re: Bardic gift? by Kenneth Allen Hyde 11) Re: Bardic Gift, Karal by "Runewind" 12) RE: roll call by "David Mark Nelson" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:44:59 -0400 From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: RE: Bardic gift? Message-ID: <000101c0cb64$b7faa9c0$7201a8c0-+AT+-rmartin1> > Heyla list-sibs! > Delurking to ask a question that's been in the back of my > mind for a while, and I don't think I've ever posted it to > the list. What would happen if someone was Gifted with the > Bardic Gift, but they had no musical performing talent? If, > for example, they were tone-deaf and couldn't carry a tune in > a paper bag? I first thought of this situation while > re-reading MPawn, where Van applies to Bardic, and they tell > him you must have two of three: Bardic Gift, performing > talent, and composition. So what happens if you have the > Bardic Gift without the other two, what happens then? Do they > let you stumble around on your own, or do they admit you for > training because uncontrolled gifts are dangerous even though > you don't meet all the criteria? > Just a little something to ponder. : ) And a good thing to ponder it is. However, I think we can get our answer from Pern. In the Harper Halls on Pern, a Harper (that world's equivalent of a Bard) doesn't have to play a tuned instrument. A rhythm instrument such as a drum or such is just as valid. I would think that someone with a Bardic gift would find some outlet for his gift. Drumming and rythmic composition is just as moving as a tune. Get a nice good drum rif going and people's feet will begin tapping. Tristaan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 13:10:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Abby Normal To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Bardic Gift, Karal Message-ID: <20010422201006.14686.qmail-+AT+-web11501.mail.yahoo.com> Heyla Listsibs, Cariad wrote: > What would happen if someone was Gifted with the > Bardic Gift, but they had no musical performing > talent? I don't think this would be possible. The Bardic Gift is an empathic ability to touch people through music, so I don't think it could appear without the music also being there. I think the 'two out of three' rule comes from it being quite possible to have either performing or composing skill on their own. (However, having both cancels out not having the Gift.) On that note, it's interesting that both Healer's and Bardic Gifts are empathic, but still the Heralds have no idea what to do with Talia. On Karal (sorry, I forget who said this), he's not quite ordinary, even withstanding the firecat. He's also a Channel: he himself is not a mage, but he can be used in magical feats. It's spoken of as a rare ability (sorry not textevd, books not here). Just an addition to the roll call: 'Abby Normal' is not my actual name. Toffee sheep to all who get the reference. Ambermoon Singer of Fire Royal Defender of the Brat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 16:13:28 -0400 From: "M'lady Silver" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bardic gift? Message-ID: <3AE33B66.2F3E6664-+AT+-uninet.net> Cariad wrote: > Heyla list-sibs! > Delurking to ask a question that's been in the back of my mind for a while, and I don't think I've ever posted it to the list. What would happen if someone was Gifted with the Bardic Gift, but they had no musical performing talent? If, for example, they were tone-deaf and couldn't carry a tune in a paper bag? I first thought of this situation while re-reading MPawn, where Van applies to Bardic, and they tell him you must have two of three: Bardic Gift, performing talent, and composition. So what happens if you have the Bardic Gift without the other two, what happens then? Do they let you stumble around on your own, or do they admit you for training because uncontrolled gifts are dangerous even though you don't meet all the criteria? If you didn't sing and you didn't compose, how would you know you had the Gift in the first place? You'd have to have someone with the Gift identify you. Or would you capture people with your speaking voice alone? -Kenzie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:56:23 -0500 (EST) From: Veronica M Maddox To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bardic Gift, Karal Message-ID: Hello peoples! Cariad wrote: > > What would happen if someone was Gifted with the > > Bardic Gift, but they had no musical performing > > talent? >Ambermoon aka "Abby Normal" wrote: > I don't think this would be possible. The Bardic > Gift is an empathic ability to touch people through > music, so I don't think it could appear without the > music also being there. I think the 'two out of three' > rule comes from it being quite possible to have either > performing or composing skill on their own. (However, > having both cancels out not having the Gift.) The more I think about the Bardic gifts the more I see how it CAN be a problem. Assume you have the gift...well, what if you also have sociophobia? That rules out performance. And what if your composition was just BAD? Is it possible to have bad music? Sure, it wouldn't touch the people in a very good way...but it could still touch them. Has anybody heard of something like this? I haven't read the Bard books yet (I know, I'm slow...I actually have trouble finding them during the summer, which is the only time I have to read them!) Ambermoon aka "Abby Normal" also wrote: > Just an addition to the roll call: 'Abby Normal' > is not my actual name. Toffee sheep to all who get the > reference. > Yay, I get toffee sheep! Mmmmmm...sugar.... Goodluck to all college students on this "dead week" that is all too lively!, -Veronica- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 17:48:41 -0400 From: Heather Lee To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bardic Gift, Karal Message-ID: <3AE351B9.12694B3D-+AT+-clemson.edu> Veronica M Maddox wrote: > > Hello peoples! > > Cariad wrote: > > > What would happen if someone was Gifted with the > > > Bardic Gift, but they had no musical performing > > > talent? > > >Ambermoon aka "Abby Normal" wrote: > > > I don't think this would be possible. The Bardic > > Gift is an empathic ability to touch people through > > music, so I don't think it could appear without the > > music also being there. I think the 'two out of three' > > rule comes from it being quite possible to have either > > performing or composing skill on their own. (However, > > having both cancels out not having the Gift.) > > The more I think about the Bardic gifts the more I see how it CAN > be a problem. Assume you have the gift...well, what if you also have > sociophobia? That rules out performance. And what if your composition > was just BAD? Is it possible to have bad music? Sure, it wouldn't touch > the people in a very good way...but it could still touch them. Has > anybody heard of something like this? I haven't read the Bard books yet > (I know, I'm slow...I actually have trouble finding them during the > summer, which is the only time I have to read them!) > The only thing I can really think of is from Asimov's Foundation trilogy with a character called the Mule, who at one scene plays an instrument which ends up killing people... I'd guess that'd be classified as "bad music" that touched someone. Heather Lee ------------------------------ Date: 22 Apr 2001 15:02:39 -0700 From: david Goodwin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: roll call Message-ID: <20010422220239.29672.cpmta-+AT+-c005.sfo.cp.net> Just joinin the roll call is all dave 24, soon to be father , i work in a casino in the uk, oh what fun *grin* I have no idea when i first read lackey, tho i think it's something like 8 or 9 years ago when the talia books were the only ones based in that world, i think:) not sure on the date and all. ------------------------------------------------------------- Sign up for ICQmail at http://www.icq.com/icqmail/signup.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 15:37:15 -0700 From: Scott To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bardic gift? Message-ID: <3AE35D1B.1C7C4F5D-+AT+-cc.wwu.edu> Cariad wrote: > Heyla list-sibs! > Delurking to ask a question that's been in the back of my mind for a while, and I don't think I've ever posted it to the list. What would happen if someone was Gifted with the Bardic Gift, but they had no musical performing talent? If, for example, they were tone-deaf and couldn't carry a tune in a paper bag? I first thought of this situation while re-reading MPawn, where Van applies to Bardic, and they tell him you must have two of three: Bardic Gift, performing talent, and composition. So what happens if you have the Bardic Gift without the other two, what happens then? Do they let you stumble around on your own, or do they admit you for training because uncontrolled gifts are dangerous even though you don't meet all the criteria? > Just a little something to ponder. : ) > Wind to thy wings, > *Cariad* > > ----------------------------------------------- > FREE! The World's Best Email Address -+AT+-email.com > Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com I suppose that would explain Emenem. (ho-ho) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 19:53:27 EDT From: MDennis460-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bardic gift? Message-ID: --part1_d2.56c8fde.2814c8f7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit isn't this similar to what kerowyn in by the sword goes through? she is not a performer, but has perfect pitch, and has to endure interminable renditions of "kerowyn's ride"? the description is in by the sword...don't have my book here. but remember it made me laugh out loud! In a message dated 4/22/2001 6:31:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time, mclouds-+AT+-cc.wwu.edu writes: > > Delurking to ask a question that's been in the back of my mind for a > while, and I don't think I've ever posted it to the list. What would happen > if someone was Gifted with the Bardic Gift, but they had no musical > performing talent? If, for example, they were tone-deaf and couldn't carry > a tune in a paper bag? I first thought of this situation while re-reading > MPawn, where Van applies to Bardic, and they tell him you must have two of > three: Bardic Gift, performing talent, and composition. So what happens if > you have the Bardic Gift without the other two, what happens then? Do they > let you stumble around on your own, or do they admit you for training > because uncontrolled gifts are dangerous even though you don't meet all the > criteria? > --part1_d2.56c8fde.2814c8f7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit isn't this similar to what kerowyn in by the sword goes through?  she is not
a performer, but has perfect pitch, and has to endure interminable renditions
of "kerowyn's ride"?  the description is in by the sword...don't have my book
here.  but remember it made me laugh out loud!


In a message dated 4/22/2001 6:31:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
mclouds-+AT+-cc.wwu.edu writes:


> Delurking to ask a question that's been in the back of my mind for a
while, and I don't think I've ever posted it to the list. What would happen
if someone was Gifted with the Bardic Gift, but they had no musical
performing talent? If, for example, they were tone-deaf and couldn't carry
a tune in a paper bag? I first thought of this situation while re-reading
MPawn, where Van applies to Bardic, and they tell him you must have two of
three: Bardic Gift, performing talent, and composition. So what happens if
you have the Bardic Gift without the other two, what happens then? Do they
let you stumble around on your own, or do they admit you for training
because uncontrolled gifts are dangerous even though you don't meet all the
criteria?


--part1_d2.56c8fde.2814c8f7_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 17:47:21 -0700 From: "Lorna Appleby" To: Subject: Re: Bardic Gift, Karal Message-ID: <005801c0cb8e$f4b08ea0$f240a8c0-+AT+-backtalk.org> >The more I think about the Bardic gifts the more I see how it CAN >be a problem. Assume you have the gift...well, what if you also have >sociophobia? That rules out performance. And what if your composition >was just BAD? Is it possible to have bad music? Sure, I'd call it N'Sync.. (Ducks and runs) >Sure, it wouldn't touch >the people in a very good way...but it could still touch them. Has >anybody heard of something like this? I haven't read the Bard books yet Actually, I think that the people would just be storytellers.. Your spoken voice can capture as well as any singer.. (Henry Rollins, anyway? His spoken word is a lot more enrapturing than his songs..) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 00:44:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Bardic gift? Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, Cariad wrote: > What would happen if someone was Gifted with the Bardic Gift, but they > had no musical performing talent? Would their talent be considered "Bardic" in that case? I'd be inclined to think that it would just be classified as a Mind Gift without be definitely viewed as Bardic in nature. > So what happens if you have the Bardic Gift without the other two, > what happens then? Do they let you stumble around on your own, or do > they admit you for training because uncontrolled gifts are dangerous > even though you don't meet all the criteria? They probably let you fall through the cracks of the education and training system until you become a menace, and the Heralds "deal" with you. Even the Heralds don't have a good track record for their handling of people with unclassified gifts *coughtaliacough*. As for the issue of Pern's Harpers, I don't think that it is germaine. After all, the systems and Secondary Worlds are completely different (there is no Bardic Gift in Pern's universe, for example). Besides, if someone has absolutely no musicality at all, they wouldn't be able to play even simple drums. Trust me, I have tried to teach people with no rhythm; they do exist. Oh, and to the person who asked if there was such a thing as bad music: yes, there is. Have you tried listening to Bob Dylan? He clearly has been coasting through on only one of the two real-world Bardic gifts (he's a reasonably gifted compose, but the man sings like a barrel full of drowning cats). May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:33:55 +0800 From: "Runewind" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bardic Gift, Karal Message-ID: <3AE42F43.10564.7D8B99-+AT+-localhost> > >Sure, it wouldn't touch > >the people in a very good way...but it could still touch them. Has > >anybody heard of something like this? I haven't read the Bard books > >yet > > Actually, I think that the people would just be storytellers.. Your > spoken voice can capture as well as any singer.. (Henry Rollins, > anyway? His spoken word is a lot more enrapturing than his songs..) Not only would you have storytelling as an outlet for the Bardic Gift, there is also poetry. But would the performance requirement allow for spoken instead of played or sung, and would the composition requirement allow for words alone instead of music? If not, that could make for a very interesting book. Would Bardic be flexible enough to let someone in who has the gift, but cannot use it in the traditional manner? Runewind ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:28:33 -0700 From: "David Mark Nelson" To: Subject: RE: roll call Message-ID: <6605DE4621E5934593474F620A14D7002702A5-+AT+-red-msg-07.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Thought I'd de-lurk for a moment and mention my first & my favorite ML book... "Born to Run" (a novel of the SERRAted Edge), co-written with Larry Dixon... After reading that book, I was drawn to find more of ML's books. Oh, I'm 36yrs old, and I live in Seattle WA, USA.. Back to lurk mode... Dave ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2576 **********************************