MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2613 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) languages by "Hill, Susan" 2) C. S. Lewis by "Abigail Laughlin" 3) RE: C. S. Lewis by "Robert Martin" 4) Re: Books of Three or More... by troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk 5) Books of Three & Tolkein's Languages by Kasebones-+AT+-cs.com 6) RE: C. S. Lewis by "Layla Voll" 7) Re: Tashir/Tylendal and Books of Three by "Layla Voll" 8) Re: Books of Three & Hobb by "Sanne Hoogerwerf" 9) Re: Books of Three or More... by =?iso-8859-1?q?Sheridan=20Hoy?= 10) RE: C. S. Lewis by "Robert Martin" 11) languages by Abby Normal ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:18:02 -0700 From: "Hill, Susan" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: languages Message-ID: <872A9D7CC09CD11188CE00805FBB042E05C0089A-+AT+-emswwc7.weyer.com> I had a thought... just read the Lord of the Rings trilogy - and there's a Lake on the map - Called Lake Evendim Same as in Western Valdemar... Anyone know if this is a nod to Tolkien?? (PAUL - are you still out there? Can you ask her??) -S ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 18:24:11 -0000 From: "Abigail Laughlin" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: C. S. Lewis Message-ID: <> ...Well, I don't know for absolutely certain, but I strongly doubt that was the case. From what I know of Lewis, he was already strongly Christian by the time he started writing the Chronicles. There are certainly a great number of Christian elements in The Lion, The Witch, And The Wardrobe, which was the first book he wrote in the series. The Chronicles of Narnia have been a close family friend for a looong time, so I'm very familiar with them and some of the stuff behind them. :) Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade and Mor the raven, Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves, Member of the Mistic Circle, Webmaster of the Circle of Stone, Knight and Founding Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes; http://www.angelfire.com/ky/Ashke/ - The Labyrinth _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 17:07:37 -0400 From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: RE: C. S. Lewis Message-ID: <000001c0f516$0b4c9db0$ca01a8c0-+AT+-rmartin1> > ..Well, I don't know for absolutely certain, but I strongly > doubt that was > the case. From what I know of Lewis, he was already strongly > Christian by > the time he started writing the Chronicles. There are > certainly a great > number of Christian elements in The Lion, The Witch, And The > Wardrobe, which > was the first book he wrote in the series. > > The Chronicles of Narnia have been a close family friend for > a looong time, > so I'm very familiar with them and some of the stuff behind them. :) IIRC, C.S. Lewis was strongly NON Christian until he did some intellectual research into the religion. He wrote the chronicles as children's books using the Christian mythos after he converted. Tristaan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:59:33 +0100 From: troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Books of Three or More... Message-ID: <20016150340641-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk> On 06/14/01 11:05:18 Sheridan Hoy wrote: >track down the second in the set! Like Li'nia I >enjoyed the Belgariad and the Mallorean - he also >wrote a stand alone book called The Taming of Athlaus >(?sp), which was brillant! The Redemption of Althalus - and the Belgariad and Malloreon - were David Eddings, not Terry Goodkind. This is probably what you meant but your post was worded a little confusingly in that regard ;) >Quite sorry to hear that The Captal's Tower is on >delay. Still? Sheesh. Mageborn Traitor's been out for 2-3 years now. I really wish Rawn would write the last book of the trilogy already. I can see why authors would like a change, but >it is very frustrating. Agreed. I am currently awaiting the release of the 5th book by Janny Wurts in The War of >Light and Shadow series, although I think the second >set of three have been called The Alliance of Light. 5th book, Grand Conspiracy, has been out over here for about 18 months now. Maybe hasn't reached New Zealand yet though. I'm waiting on the 6th book. >I can think of heaps of other great sets too - I can't recommend Patricia Kennealy-Morrison's Keltiad series strongly enough. (Celts in space!) Also Kristine Kathryn Rusch's ongoing Fey series (6 books and counting), Raymond Feist's Midkemia/Kelewan series (Janny Wurts was involved with those too), and of course Terry Pratchett's Discworld. Along with dozens of others... :) Trollhugs and chocolate sheep to all, Muranog Shadowbane ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 20:05:24 EDT From: Kasebones-+AT+-cs.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Books of Three & Tolkein's Languages Message-ID: <6d.156db3fa.285aab44-+AT+-cs.com> In a message dated 6/13/01 3:30:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, layla_voll-+AT+-hotmail.com writes: > I was pretty set with this theory, until I went to my bookshelf and did some > actual empirical research: a quick survey of the trilogies that were there > (and by trilogy I meant something that was actually conceived of as a > three-part series, not a book that happened to be popular enough to spawn > two sequels -- the difference between "Star Wars" and "Indiana Jones"). Another exmple of a trilogy that DIDN'T work was the "Assasin" trilogy by Robin Hobb. Excellent books all together, but the second and third books just didn't seem to measure up to the first one. However, Robin Hobb's "Liveship" trilogy seemed to follow the Star Wars theory: 1st and 3rd books were great, absolutely fantastic, but the second book just seemed a way to get from the first to the third. Nothing actually important happened. Otheres may disagree w/ me. Oh well. :) *By the way, does anyone know if Robin Hobb has any new books coming out?* ________________ On the subject of languages, I think someone out there asked how they're created; specifically about Tolkein's history w/ languages. I looked around for a bit and found a website describing exactly that. I'm not entirely sure how you put web adresses in here, so all let anyone who wants to, cut and paste. The article is fascinating, and I encourage you to read it. here it is: www.langmaker.com/ml0108.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 04:28:57 From: "Layla Voll" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: C. S. Lewis Message-ID: Tristaan writes: Someone else writes: > > ..Well, I don't know for absolutely certain, but I strongly > > doubt that was > > the case. From what I know of Lewis, he was already strongly > > Christian by > > the time he started writing the Chronicles. There are > > certainly a great > > number of Christian elements in The Lion, The Witch, And The > > Wardrobe, which > > was the first book he wrote in the series.... > >IIRC, C.S. Lewis was strongly NON Christian until he did some intellectual >research into the religion. He wrote the chronicles as children's books >using the Christian mythos after he converted. According to "Into the Wardrobe," a website devoted to CS Lewis at http://cslewis.drzeus.net/ -- with a welcome letter from Lewis' stepson, so I don't think it's totally inaccurate -- Lewis abandoned Christianity at the age of fourteen or fifteen, and came back to it at the age of about thirty-three. I include this quote partly also because of the mention of Tolkein: 1931 (28 Sept) Lewis became a Christian: One evening in September, Lewis had a long talk on Christianity with J.R.R. Tolkien (a devout Roman Catholic) and Hugo Dyson. That evening's discussion was important in bringing about the following day's event that Lewis recorded in Surprised by Joy: "When we [Warnie and Jack] set out [by motorcycle to the Whipsnade Zoo] I did not believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and when we reached the zoo I did." "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" was published in 1950, and the other books in the Narnia series followed at a rate of one per year. My ancient set has them in order of publication, with "The Lion, etc.," first. (Of course, my copy of Lewis' "The Screwtape Letters" says "The author has recently been appointed to a Chair at Cambridge.") The first books he wrote after his conversion are actually the Space Trilogy. Ironically, I liked the first one, "Out of the Silent Planet," a lot, but am kind of stuck getting through the second one. Layla _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 05:46:37 From: "Layla Voll" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tashir/Tylendal and Books of Three Message-ID: Matt Neimeyer writes: > >I think it's because I also have a fetish for quirky sidekicks > >and background characters, and as soon as the hero goes off, as he or she > >must, to learn all those important life lessons *alone*, s/he suddenly >loses > >all the people I really liked reading about (like Alberich and Skif, or >even > >Kyril and Elcarth). > >What will be interesting is to see if your love of "quirky sidekicks" holds >up when they are the central character. From the recent author chat with >Mercedes Lackey we learned that Skif is going to have his own book >eventually (Take a Thief?)... I think Alberich has already been featured in >a short story (about his Choosing IIRC... and I have another book listed >from the chat "Knight's Gambit" that might be about him as well.) Good question. I certainly enjoyed the short story where Alberich gets Chosen, and I suspect that the guy has enough stories in him for a whole book. There are definitely characters that I *don't* think would support a whole book -- the solo adventures of Kris, for instance (although Dirk And Kris, Agents of the Queen would be cool). Or Daren's experience as his brother's Lord Martial. Or Sherrill and Keren doing stuff. I can't even think of anything for Sherrill and Keren to do. Not that any of them are particularly "quirky," which may be the point. I also can't think of any spinoff books featuring sidekicks that I thought failed, although I can think of plenty of television shows that were bad despite the fact that they featured characters I liked in the original (like "AfterM.A.S.H."). Oddly enough, when I tried to think of really dry characters, they ended up sounding really appealing: Elcarth's book could be a very funny academic satire, and Mero's view of the Collegium could be absolutely fascinating. Speaking of Alberich, I went for the longest time with a mental image of him being short and muscular, right up until the tenth or so time I read the scene of Talia's first lesson with him, which describes him as tall, lean, and dark. I suppose it probably described him that way the first ten times, too. Layla _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 07:57:43 -0000 From: "Sanne Hoogerwerf" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Books of Three & Hobb Message-ID: Hello everybody, >From: Kasebones-+AT+-cs.com >Another exmple of a trilogy that DIDN'T work was the "Assasin" trilogy by >Robin Hobb. Excellent books all together, but the second and third books >just didn't seem to measure up to the first one. Hm. I don't agree. I liked the second book best and the first book least. But may be that's just because I read the second book first and the first book second. :-) I haven't read the third liveship-book yet. I'm waiting for the Dutch translation in the library and that usually takes some time. >*By the way, does anyone know if Robin Hobb has any new books coming out?* Yes, I know she does. On www.robinhobb.com they say: "The Tawny Man, the current work in progress, picks up Fitz’s voice and tale some fifteen years after the end of the Red Ship wars. Book One, Fool’s Errand is scheduled to be published by HarperCollins/ Voyager in Sept/Oct. of 2001 in the United Kingdom and Australia. Bantam Books will bring it out in Jan/Feb. of 2002 in the United States. The HarperCollins cover will be by John Howe and the US cover by Stephen Youll. You can view an excerpt from the first chapter here now." Looks like there's another Fitz-trilogy coming. Does anybody know how many people subscribed to this mailinglist? Are there more non-native-english listsibs? Wind to thy wings, Sanne. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:14:53 +1200 (NZST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Sheridan=20Hoy?= To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Books of Three or More... Message-ID: <20010615081453.71461.qmail-+AT+-web11006.mail.yahoo.com> Heyla listsibs, Opps, sorry Muranog Shadowbane, I meant the 6th Janyy Wurts book. It is out here in (I am currently living and working in the UK on my big OE - Overseas Experience) early next month - I have requested it from the library! I think it doesn't come out in the USA till January, is that right? SPOILERS FOR BOOK 5 FOLLOWING! S P O I L E R S Just have to ask if you think their will come a time when Lysaer's son (I have forgotten his name - I think it begins with a K) will realize that his father is not seeking true justice. I mean, won't he have the gift too? I wonder why the Fellowship haven't tested him? Just wondering what you think - most of my friends haven't read book 5 so I am dying to talk about it to someone. OB Misty. I know she is planning to go online - I am hoping to be there, but for those that can't make it (or get on), will there be a transcript? Also, does anyone know what she is currently working on now? The second Eric Banyon book perhaps? (I am waiting for the first to come out in paperback - or the library - my budget can't stretch to hardbacks, and can you imagine how overweight I would be (baggage wise) when I finally go home :) Wind to thy Wings, tamlin _____________________________________________________________________________ http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger - Voice chat, mail alerts, stock quotes and favourite news and lots more! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:13:32 -0400 From: "Robert Martin" To: Subject: RE: C. S. Lewis Message-ID: <000601c0f594$99302c90$ca01a8c0-+AT+-rmartin1> > According to "Into the Wardrobe," a website devoted to CS Lewis at > http://cslewis.drzeus.net/ -- with a welcome letter from > Lewis' stepson, so > I don't think it's totally inaccurate -- Lewis abandoned > Christianity at the > age of fourteen or fifteen, and came back to it at the age of about > thirty-three. I include this quote partly also because of > the mention of > Tolkein: > > 1931 (28 Sept) > Lewis became a Christian: One evening in September, Lewis had > a long talk on > Christianity with J.R.R. Tolkien (a devout Roman Catholic) I knew C.S. Lewis was a member of a group of writers called "Inklings" of which Tolkien was also a member. I kinda like the idea of Tolkien and him having such a discussion. > the first one, "Out of the Silent Planet," a lot, but am kind > of stuck > getting through the second one. I personally preferred Perelandra for two reasons. 1) It was an interesting "What if" concerning the garden of eden. 2) Interesting philosophy in that book, too. I almost felt like I was reading something on the lines of Faust with the Devil and the Angel sitting on Eve's shoulder. Tristaan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:23:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Abby Normal To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: languages Message-ID: <20010615172310.78606.qmail-+AT+-web11504.mail.yahoo.com> Heyla List-sibs, I don't know of any official confirmation from Misty, but it seems pretty certain that she based the Tayledras, Shin'a'in, and Kaled'a'in languages on Romany (which I believe is the fifth Romance tongue). About a year or two ago someone posted this site on the list: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/3698/rom.htm I was once convulsed by laughter in a bookstore after catching sight of a copy of _Hamlet_ translated into Klingon. Does anyone know of any sites dedicated to Tolkien's languages? (I love etymology and am annoyed that my school has not a linguistics department.) On series': I must argue against the charge that The_Two_Towers is weak. Sam and Frodo don't simply 'slog along'; their trek illustrates the Ring's growing influence on Frodo, and his gradual unraveling. For Star_Wars, most people I've talked to generally consider Empire_Strikes_Back to be the strongest of the trilogy (although _Jedi_ will always be my sentimental favourite). I love David Eddings' Belgariad and Mallorean, but I don't overly care for the Elenium and Tamuli - they seem poor copies of the others. I agree that Fionavar_Tapestry is strong throughout. Thank you to those who replied to my query on The_Captal's_Tower; I regret that it will be so long in the coming, but I'm thankful that she at least has definite plans to write it! Ambermoon Singer of Fire Royal Defender of the Brat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Spot the hottest trends in music, movies, and more. http://buzz.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2613 **********************************