MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2618 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Vanyel question by "Hill, Susan" 2) Re:Vanyel question by "~*~ Ciara ~*~" 3) Re: languages by "Layla Voll" 4) Re: Vanyel question by Matt Neimeyer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:31:33 -0700 From: "Hill, Susan" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: Vanyel question Message-ID: <872A9D7CC09CD11188CE00805FBB042E05C008DE-+AT+-emswwc7.weyer.com> Okay - I just was curious... Randale's father was killed before he was king, presumably because his father had the mage gift and Leareth/Ma'ar was whacking all the mage heralds... So my question is, Randale didn't have the mage gift, yet he died of a mysterious illness. Was that completely "natural" or was it part of Leareth's plot to destablize Valdemar before he invaded? Any ideas? -Susan ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jun 2001 20:50:13 -0000 From: "~*~ Ciara ~*~" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Vanyel question Message-ID: <20010620205013.19123.qmail-+AT+-fancyfeast.chek.com> VAN SPOILER >So my question is, Randale didn't have the mage gift, yet he died of a >mysterious illness. Was that completely "natural" or was it part of >Leareth's plot to destablize Valdemar before he invaded? > I thought it sounded kind of like cancer, because it wouldn't be Leareth because He was only targetting those who had the mage gift, who could have been or were pontential Hearld mages, and it said that Randale had no gift. . . Although it could have been a cover up for his next target (besides Vanyel) Jisa, because not everyone knew about Vanyel's part in that *so to speak* and maybe he though he could do away with Jisa the same way leaving the throne vunerable? I have too much time on my hands, don't I? Oh well, just a few ideas, I thought it explained that somewhere in the book. . . ~*~ Ciara ~*~ ________________________________________________________________ Get Free Anime Email, News, Links, Forums and Shopping at http://www.AnimeNation.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 21:22:18 From: "Layla Voll" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: languages Message-ID: A couple of people have been talking about how authors come up with languages: There is a very detailed web site discussing some basic rules about the creation of a language, plus potential pitfalls, the challenge of creating an alphabet, and the example of the author's own created languagem, Verdurian: it's a set of web pages called "The Language Construction Kit," and is located at: http://www.zompist.com/kit.html It's a fascinating site, even if you don't plan on creating your own language. I agree with Kenneth when he says, "Most fictional languages are like Shina'a'in and Kaled'a'in: they are fragmentary, not terribly grammaticalized, and not very well-thought-out." Usually what you get are a bunch of loan-words, and it’s nearly impossible to derive a full language, complete with grammar rules. I know this because another list I'm on *is* trying to do exactly that, with about the same number of words and phrases in Elfquest Elven as there are in Shina'a'in or Kaled'a'in. You get to a certain point, mostly after you've created a glossary, and then you start hitting great black holes of ignorance. And, regarding Tolkien, Matt writes: >I seem to remember also hearing that his work on languages created problems >in translation from English because it was difficult to come up with >translations of translations or to find ways to come up with languages that >had the same relationship to the main language. Right -- I read that it was nearly impossible to come up with words and names which would have the same feel to a French speaker as the originals had for a modern English speaker: for instance, I think Rohan was largely based on Old Saxon, and Old French doesn’t feel the same to a French speaker as Old Saxon does to an English speaker, because the history of England and English is very different, what with the Norman Conquest and all. There's no equivalent in French to the different feel between English words derived from Norman French and from the Saxon words. I'm taking this on faith, because I'm not a native French speaker, but an article I read said that in English, the animal is a "sheep" when the Saxon peasant is taking care of it, and "mutton" when the French noble is eating it, and that other languages don’t tend to have that many nuances -- my understanding is that English just has a lot more words than other languages. And this would also translate into the "feel" of a language: Rohan sounds like old Saxon, which also instictively puts it between the rural people (like the hobbits, whose language sounds a lot like the Rohan language) and the far more refined language of Minas Tirith, as well as conjuring up images of a fierce, warrior people with a strong battle ethic, etc., etc. Layla _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 17:27:12 -0400 From: Matt Neimeyer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel question Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010620170833.00b09810-+AT+-ambriel.youth-guard.org> >So my question is, Randale didn't have the mage gift, yet he died of a >mysterious illness. Was that completely "natural" or was it part of >Leareth's plot to destablize Valdemar before he invaded? I think Vanyel and Savil would have picked up on magical types of attacks like that... I always got the feeling it was some sort of "standard" genetic disease like MS... BUT if it has to be treachery then PERHAPS... It was something like heavy metal poisoning: (don't blame me I was just watching one of those Medical Mystery shows ;) I found this reference to mercury poisoning on-line: Acute poisoning results in severe inflammation of the bowel, abdominal cramps, nausea, vomiting, bloody diarrhea etc. Symptoms of chronic poisoning typically include a loss of appetite and weight, a metallic taste in the mouth, excessive saliva production, inflammation of the mucous membranes, and the loosening of teeth, a blueing of the gums along with pain and numbness, tremors in the extremities, psychological depression and withdrawal. As to method, in on of the Vows and Honor books didn't Kethry foil an attempt to poison someone with Arsenic from afar by magic? Someone with a good fetching gift should have been able to do that without raising any magical ire and I don't remember reading anything on the "Official" detectability of mind gifts in action. Considering how many spies turned up in even Valdemar's court at various points I'm sure Leareth (or someone else) could have smuggled someone in. Has any doctor or someone else with a medical background considered Randale's symptoms from a diagnosis standpoint? Matt ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2618 **********************************