MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2632 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) The multiple men in Talia's life by "Layla Voll" 2) RE: Skif by "Rebecca McAllister" 3) More about Kris by "Layla Voll" 4) Re: More about Kris by Ilaria1431-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 16:54:53 From: "Layla Voll" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: The multiple men in Talia's life Message-ID: Wow -- for someone who starts off not trusting men, she certainly has a lot of close male friends. I mean, even her Companion is male. Anyway... Re: Kris I do think Kris would have backed off and absolutely tried not to insinuate himself into Dirk's lifebond, precisely for all the reasons we've been discussing. After all, Kris probably knows him better than we do :) On the other hand, Kris' big speech about there not being enough room in a Herald's life for duty, one's Companion, *and* marriage comes at the beginning of Arrow's Flight. I think he matures a fair amount during Flight as well -- there's a song in that set of songs at the end of Arrow's Fall that's supposed to be from Kris about a little bird teaching him the importance of love. So I imagine that there would always be something wistful about his carefully not involving himself, and I think that Dirk would, eventually, see this and pull him in closer, the same way Dirk saw that Kris envied his big, cheerful family and brought him in. But I think it would have to come from Dirk and not Talia, and I doubt they would ever all sleep together. Re: Griffon: I very much liked Griffon, and I was sorry not to see more of him later. It does seem as if he worked quite hard to win Talia's trust, particularly in overcoming her automatic distrust of men. And the Heralds always talk about having a rather special bond with their year-mates (like Teren thinking of Keren when Beltran died in Arrows), so there ought to be more to that relationship there than just the normal trust in another Herald. I don’t think there was a hidden crush going on there, though: there's a comment in Arrows that Griffon would tease her in a totally natural, friendly, big-brotherish way that Skif, who *did* have a crush on her, wasn't able to pull off. Skif: Lightsong writes: >The one I always wondered about was Skif. I mean, he and Talia were >blood-sibs, and then he just dissapeared, and was never mentioned again, in >conjunction with Talia. He was in the Winds books, but they never menioned >his relationship with Talia. What happened there? I was kinda sad about >that. Right: it seems as if he just transfers his crush to Elspeth, and then you don’t hear much about his relationship with Talia -- or with Dirk, with whom he was very close as well. It occurred to me that Skif has almost as much right to Special Uncle status as Kris: he was Dirk's protégé (same as Talia was Kris'), as well as being Talia's blood-sib, and it's Skif who goes back to Dirk's family with him while Talia recovers. Which reminds me of something I've never quite understood: in Arrow's Flight, Skif tells Talia about how he and Cymry were badly injured when a riverbank collapsed under them, and how Dirk kept looking for them long after other people would have given up hope, so he feels like he owes Dirk a lot. Except that Dirk would have *known* that Skif wasn't dead, because he would have felt it if he had died via the Herald bond, right? And it seems to me that if you *know* the person is still alive, you wouldn't have to be someone as selfless as a Herald to keep looking. Judi writes: >What I would like to see is some short stories of adventures in Talia and >Dirk's life with their kid, like Misty did with Kethry and Tarma in the S&S >books. I've actually been quite curious about their son. I suppose all we know is that he's the same age as the twins, and his name is Jemmie. If ML is planning on writing a book about the twins (which I think someone said she was), he ought to have a decent role. I imagine he'd be pretty good friends with the twins; probably a Herald, although I think Healing runs in Dirk's family; and just his name alone sounds to me like a good, solid, down-to-earth person. Sherrill/Keren (ooh, not men, although lots about Rolan) Lightsong writes: >IIRC, the reason that she thought of Sherri after Ylsa died was becuase of >Rolan. I'm sorry I don't have the text ev, but I >believe she says that the thought "sprung unbidden into her mind", or >something to that effect. She ways later that she figured out that Rolan >is where she got all of her sudden flashes of intuition. Anyway, maybe I'm >crazy, but that's what I thought. *grins* I like that explanation a lot! I mean, it makes sense, because Rolan spent a lot of time with Keren (since she was the equitation teacher), and he was a lot more aware of his surroundings when Sherrill and Keren rescued Talia from the river, which is the image that occurs to Talia when she has her flash of insight. I wouldn't be surprised if that's when Rolan figured out what was going on, or at least when his suscpicions are confirmed. layla _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 19:36:04 From: "Rebecca McAllister" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Skif Message-ID: First things first WELCOME BACK LI'NIA!!! Becca tosses the aforementioned sheep, which is neatly dodged by years of practice. Fiddlestix, I missed. Oh well. Ciocia wrote: Skif and Talia's friendship stayed out of the >"limelight" because it wasn't important to any of the following stories. It may not have been important, but it still should have existed. It was kind of dusted under the rug and forgotten. >Skif was an important character in the Winds series (and a very >convenient and fully developed character for Misty to use) so he was >trotted out for that. Yeah , but it seems like if he was fully developed, she shouldn't have just forgotten about his relationship with the other heralds. Maybe it's becuase all feild heralds have to be a little less close to people since they don't really see them often. Maybe this is why the relationship drifted apart. That's just a guess though. >Speaking of "what happened to's", (punct?) I really like the one-liners >in the later books that hint what/where Skif and Nyara, An'desha, and >that priestly kid (Polish Blonde mind drawing a complete blank on that >character's name at the moment.) Karal would be "that priestly kid" Don't worry about it . We all have our blonde moments, and I am not even blonde. >What I would like to see is some short >stories of adventures in Talia and Dirk's life with their kid, like >Misty did with Kethry and Tarma in the S&S books. > Oh I would like to see that too, It would be very interesting, bt I tink that at somepiont, Misty has to put old characters to rest. Sigh. Becca -Lady of all titleless entities (see now I have a title) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 05:35:24 From: "Layla Voll" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: More about Kris Message-ID: Since I actually went back and just re-read the end of Arrow's Fall, I thought I'd share.... At the very end, after the wedding ceremony, Dirk and Talia are talking about Kris, and Talia comments how they haven't really talked about him until then. Dirk admits that he was afraid to ask her how she really felt about him, and she empathically projects exactly how she feels, "no more, no less." It's only *then* that Dirk accepts that Talia was never in love with Kris -- he even says "that's what he was trying to tell me, but I wouldn't listen." Which strikes me as amazing: that after Talia empathically projects her love for Dirk, after it's obvious that she's madly in love with him, even after they're married, he's still nervous about asking Talia how she felt about Kris. And I suspect it would have taken him a long, long time to ask her so directly without the impetus of Kris's death. So I suspect any three-bond would have taken a long time before Dirk was willing to entertain the idea. On the other hand, immediately after that exchange, Dirk says how much he misses Kris, and Talia says that she does, too. Her exact words are "I think we lost more than a friend -- we lost a part of ourselves." Which would seem to indicate that, if Talia is right, there might in fact have been a three way bond there. It just probably would have taken a while to develop. The more I picture it, the more I see Kris as Sherrill, standing on the outside wistfully looking in but terrified to disturb anything (and, of course, with better reason than Sherrill had to be wary). Layla _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:27:16 EDT From: Ilaria1431-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: More about Kris Message-ID: <117.150f121.28786834-+AT+-aol.com> --part1_117.150f121.28786834_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Layla writes, >>>>On the other hand, immediately after that exchange, Dirk says how much he misses Kris, and Talia says that she does, too. Her exact words are "I think we lost more than a friend -- we lost a part of ourselves." <<<< Personally, I don't see this as an indication of a potential three-way bond. There can be deep relationships between people without any type of romantic attraction, and if you look at the very nature of the Heraldic Circle and how they are all bound to each other so deeply (e.g.: what Keren says to Talia after her near drowning, and how the whole Collegium reacted to that; how the Heralds reacted to Dirk's treatment by that woman, etc., etc.), it does not seem at all unreasonable for Talia and Dirk, who were Kris' best friends, to feel that they lost a part of themselves when he died. I know that if my best friend died, I would feel that way, too. Even Selenay must have felt something strong for Kris, since she named her only son after him! Herald Jacquelle "Why do some people think that if you talk to God, you're praying, but if God talks to you, you're nuts?" Monica, Touched by an Angel --part1_117.150f121.28786834_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Layla writes,

>>>>On the other hand, immediately after that exchange, Dirk says how much he
misses Kris, and Talia says that she does, too.  Her exact words are "I
think we lost more than a friend -- we lost a part of ourselves."  <<<<


Personally, I don't see this as an indication of a potential three-way bond.  
There can be deep relationships between people without any type of romantic
attraction, and if you look at the very nature of the Heraldic Circle and how
they are all bound to each other so deeply (e.g.: what Keren says to Talia
after her near drowning, and how the whole Collegium reacted to that; how the
Heralds reacted to Dirk's treatment by that woman, etc., etc.), it does not
seem at all unreasonable for Talia and Dirk, who were Kris' best friends, to
feel that they lost a part of themselves when he died.  I know that if my
best friend died, I would feel that way, too.  Even Selenay must have felt
something strong for Kris, since she named her only son after him!

Herald Jacquelle

"Why do some people think that if you talk to God, you're praying, but if God
talks to you, you're nuts?"  Monica, Touched by an Angel --part1_117.150f121.28786834_boundary-- ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2632 **********************************