MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2651 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Rolan by "Roxanne Nolan" 2) Re: Gwena's return- Companions by "Roxanne Nolan" 3) Re: Gwena's return- Companions by Hank Tiffany 4) Re: Gwena's return- Companions by "Lorna Appleby" 5) Re: paperback date for Beyond World's End by "Barbara Slater" 6) Re: Gwena's return- Companions by Matt Neimeyer 7) Skif Book One- liner by "Rebecca McAllister" 8) Re: Skif's book by "Liz Hoffman" 9) Re: Rolan by "~*~ Ciara ~*~" 10) Re: Gwena's return- Companions by "~*~ Ciara ~*~" 11) Re: Rolan, Reincarnation not a one-liner and not a braid (sorry) by Julia Gray 12) Re: Rolan, Reincarnation not a one-liner and not a braid (sorry) by "Roxanne Nolan" 13) Re: Gwena's return- Companions by "Rebecca McAllister" 14) Re: Gwena's return- Companions by "Molly McAllister" 15) RE: Karal/Di Tregarde by =?iso-8859-1?q?Sheridan=20Hoy?= 16) Karal/Ahrodie by "Li'nia Stormdancer" 17) new topics!! by Silvershadow ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:56:25 -0700 From: "Roxanne Nolan" To: Subject: Re: Rolan Message-ID: <003101c11523$9a0a75e0$0a3427d0-+AT+-unicorn> > >BTW, have there been any female MOC's? This just got me to thinking, when Gwena comes back around I wonder if she will be a new MOC? After all, all the MOC are Grove Born and so was Gwena. It's kind of an interesting theory to think of how Gwena would develop. Ghost Vanyel commented on the fact that she is young, and it would be neat to think this is the start of her education to become MOC. I wonder if the first MOC made as many mistakes as Gwena did? Roxanne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:03:47 -0700 From: "Roxanne Nolan" To: Subject: Re: Gwena's return- Companions Message-ID: <003201c11523$9b61c880$0a3427d0-+AT+-unicorn> In one of the books, they said that for the first little while *all* the Companions were Grove born because there were too few of them. I would think that to keep the secret of what the Companions are they would wait awhile between death and coming back. Another reason for waiting is that the Herald would be too caught up in his old life that it could cause some problems. After all if the King came right back as a Herald, being a good King he would want to make sure things are going the way he saw fit. Even though they were most likely going along wonderfully, there were bound to be some changes he disapproved of, just because of the different style of leadership and he would want to correct that. I would imagine it would be part of being such a good king in the first place. So it seems logical that they would have to have some down time to realize that they are dead and to let go of earthly things or they would be trying to take up where they left off. Roxanne ----- Original Message ----- > >I think that it would be kind of scary to be a herald at the founding if I > >knew that every time a mare got pregnant that a herald had to die. > Someone else pointed out that they didn't know back then but why can't you > take it from the other perspective. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:17:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Hank Tiffany To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gwena's return- Companions Message-ID: 24 Jul 2001, and someone, whose name is lost to the winds of time, wrote: > > >I think that it would be kind of scary to be a herald at the founding if I > >knew that every time a mare got pregnant that a herald had to die. There's a hole in that logic - you're assuming that former Herald is a requirement to become a naturally born companion. It would seem to be perfectly possible for the gods to recruit from the equivalent of the virtuous pagans that Dante met in Limbo[1] thus filling any shortfall in the number of Heraldic souls available for the ensouling of Companions. Hank Tiffany, dodgy TypeR [1] First circle of Hell, only punishment is the absence of God. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:57:48 -0700 From: "Lorna Appleby" To: Subject: Re: Gwena's return- Companions Message-ID: <003401c1152a$ef46d150$f201a8c0-+AT+-backtalk.org> I always wondered if Dirk's companion was Grove Born as well.. Based on the conversation that went something to the effect of.. (I think it was Elspleth in Arrow's Fall talking to Dirk..) "Don't they ever interfere?" "Not in living memory, and then only Grove Born companions, and the only one of those we have is Rolan." ..And it was Rolan, Dirk's companion (whose name I can't look up right now and don't want to mispell) and Gwena who aided them in rescuing Talia. We know Rolan and Gwena are both grove born so what about Dirk's companion..? ^_^ -Lorna (Who realizes this has probably been brought up before, but she hasn't seen it since she joined the list several months ago..) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:02:35 -0400 From: "Barbara Slater" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: paperback date for Beyond World's End Message-ID: Liz - *What* Skif book? Is there a site that has the up-and-coming list of goodies? I can't find it at FireBird Arts anymore... DeepRanger a.k.a. Murphy's Monster >From: "Liz Hoffman" > Got to save my money for the Skif book, >any idea on the UK publication dates for that? **************************************** Bookaholics of the world, UNITE! You have nothing to lose but your ignorance! **************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:00:56 -0400 From: Matt Neimeyer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gwena's return- Companions Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010725135557.00a94500-+AT+-ambriel.youth-guard.org> >"Don't they ever interfere?" >"Not in living memory, and then only Grove Born companions, and the only one >of those we have is Rolan." > >.And it was Rolan, Dirk's companion (whose name I can't look up right now >and don't want to mispell) and Gwena who aided them in rescuing Talia. > >We know Rolan and Gwena are both grove born so what about Dirk's >companion..? ^_^ I'd chalk that up to one (or more) of couple things 1. "I am Grove Born and I outrank you... so do what I tell you" 2. "My Herald is going to be REAL messed up if we don't get her back so let me help" 3. Didn't one of the Companions involved say something about being able to do it (Fetch Talia) with enough energy and love. Or something squishy like that? IOW: They might have needed Dirk's / His Companion's emotion for strength. 3. They needed a "homing" beacon and used Talia and Dirk's Lifebond and they needed a way to tap into that beacon. So Dirk's Companion was there to tie in Dirk somehow. Just a thought... Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 18:28:53 From: "Rebecca McAllister" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Skif Book One- liner Message-ID: > >Liz - > >*What* Skif book? Is there a site that has the >up-and-coming list of goodies? I can't find it >at FireBird Arts anymore... > >DeepRanger >a.k.a. Murphy's Monster > She is referring to Takes a Theif(or a title very similar to that ). It is about Skif and Is suppossedly coming out in the US in October. I am very excited about this. I intend to be in he store when the trck drives up with the first copies.:) I am all giddy. Excited sheep to everyone , Sorry for the one liner. Becca _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:01:59 +0100 From: "Liz Hoffman" To: Subject: Re: Skif's book Message-ID: <002b01c1153c$495df540$46777ad5-+AT+-oemcomputer> DeepRanger a.k.a. Murphy's Monster said > *What* Skif book? Is there a site that has the > up-and-coming list of goodies? I can't find it > at FireBird Arts anymore... > Its the one that comes out in hardback from DAW in October called Take a Thief Could have sworn that Paul (Mistydesk) put a short snippet on to the list the other day found it date was Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:29:51 +0100 from the message header and the web page for the right archive digest is http://ftp.herald.co.uk/pub/lists/lackey-archives/010719-2644 in case you want to read it. Liz H ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 2001 19:22:39 -0000 From: "~*~ Ciara ~*~" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Rolan Message-ID: <20010725192239.8795.qmail-+AT+-musone.chek.com> >>BTW, have there been any female MOC's? I can't >>remember correctly... I know that sounds rather cold, >>but it's the way I see it. They said in Arrow's of the Queen, in Talia's class with Teren that the MOC is ALWAYS a male. . .I can't remember what page that quote is on, and I'm lazy. . .Sorry for the one liner. . . Sleepy sheep to all ________________________________________________________________ Get Free Anime Email, News, Links, Forums and Shopping at http://www.AnimeNation.com ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 2001 19:36:34 -0000 From: "~*~ Ciara ~*~" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gwena's return- Companions Message-ID: <20010725193634.9932.qmail-+AT+-musone.chek.com> Lorna Appleby wrote: >I always wondered if Dirk's companion was Grove Born as well.. >We know Rolan and Gwena are both grove born so what about Dirk's >companion..? ^_^ > I don't think Ahrodie (dirk's Companion) is grove-born, because in Arrows the told Talia's class that only the Queen/King, Heir, and MO get grove born companions, which explains Rolan, and Gwena, and Caryo etc. I think Dirk's companion did it out of love for Dirk. Remember they talked about how dirk was kind of torwn apart by that one women he never really loved him? well maybe Ahrodie knew that Dirk and Talia were lifebonded, and knew he'd died if she did, so she wanted to save him, and this was the only way she could? Confuzzled sheep to all ~*~ Ciara ~*~ ________________________________________________________________ Get Free Anime Email, News, Links, Forums and Shopping at http://www.AnimeNation.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:59:01 -0500 From: Julia Gray To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Rolan, Reincarnation not a one-liner and not a braid (sorry) Message-ID: <3B5F2505.3E02C2C3-+AT+-oakton.edu> Matt Neimeyer wrote: > Good question... It's been bandied about that there are four spirits that > act as MOC. And it seems that two of them are currently unidentified. It > also would seem that in a nice mystically (etc) balanced world you'd have > two males and two females. Or other category pairings. (If they've been > around that long is there such a thing as an "old" spirit and a "young" > spirit?) Perhaps even going so far as to line up with the four elements? Are spirits gender specific? Granted, we know of two incarnations of Rolan as a MALE companion, but .... could that just be chance or perhaps spirit preference? Or is it that when Misty first thought of companions, which aren't horses, she still was thinking some in horse terms - remember when Talia mentioned something to the effect that Rolan was the premiere (don't have book, forgive me if I use the wrong horse terms) stallion of the companions - so that by necessity the MOC would be male the herd leader? (okay, this may make NO sense). And who is to say that Gwena couldn't come back as a herald (or other person - remember Tylendel did not come back as a herald - although I think there may a valid argument that there was a specific reason he didn't)? I mean, if you could have some heralds come back as companions, some grove-born could come back as heralds (or others), couldn't they? I've been wondering what Karal will come back as ... And if you've actually read enough of the divine comedy to get to the stuff about the first circle of Hell, more power to you. Betha'lis who reads, lurks, and ocassionally posts ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 14:21:37 -0700 From: "Roxanne Nolan" To: Subject: Re: Rolan, Reincarnation not a one-liner and not a braid (sorry) Message-ID: <006b01c11550$1a9f50a0$0a3427d0-+AT+-unicorn> > I've been wondering what Karal will come back as ... I personally think that Karal would make a great Son of the Sun to succeed Solaris. Of course that all depends on how old he is and how old Solaris is when she passes on. I think somewhere it said that only the Son of the Sun gets a Firecat. I know Karal was a special case, but maybe it is also a little bit of foreshadowing as well?? Roxanne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:29:51 From: "Rebecca McAllister" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gwena's return- Companions Message-ID: >From: "~*~ Ciara ~*~" > >I don't think Ahrodie (dirk's Companion) is grove-born, because in Arrows >the told Talia's class that only the Queen/King, Heir, and MO get grove >born companions, which explains Rolan, and Gwena, and Caryo etc. Actually , Only the Monarchs Own Companion is Grove born. This is also mentioned in Talia's orientation class on page 124 of Arrows of the queen. " '...now all companions, with a single exception are born right here at the collegium. That exception is the Companion to the Monarch's own Herald.' His glance flickered from Edrik to Talia and back again,so quickly she couldn't be certain she'd seen his eyes move.'That companion appears from the Grove just as the origanals did. He is always a Stallion, and he never seems to age. He always gives his name to his Herald; the others may or may not do so, and may allow their Heralds to pick a name for them." Elpseth's Companion is grove born, but now becuase she is the heir. It is assumed to be becuase she is the first of the new Herald mages and will need the extra support. Cairyo is not grove born. Nor is any other Companion. I hope this clears things up for some people. Sheep shaped popsicles for everyone, newbie or not. Becca


-Lady of all titleless entities (see, now I have a title) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:45:08 +0000 From: "Molly McAllister" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gwena's return- Companions Message-ID: Heyla list-sibs, Long time, no write ;-) I just wanted to delurk for just a second. >From: "~*~ Ciara ~*~" > >I don't think Ahrodie (dirk's Companion) is grove-born, because in Arrows >the told Talia's class that only the Queen/King, Heir, and MO >get grove >born companions, which explains Rolan, and Gwena, and Caryo Actually, it says in Arrows that ONLY the MOC is grove born, and no other. Not the Monarchs, and not the heirs (except for the very first ones) Caryo isn't grove born. THe only reason that Gwena is Grove born isn't because Elspeth was heir, but because she was set to be the very first new Herald Mage. Sorry for the really short message. But I would ad, that I also don't believe that Arhodie is grove born. I am a firm believer that the only current Grove Born Companions are Gwena and Rolan. That is what makes them so special...otherwise, what is the point if everyones companions were grove born.... Oh well, sorry about the rambling. Strawberry shortcake sheep to anyone who can read this ;-) Zhai'hellava, Starshadow* She'enedra to Lightsong, Royal Defender of the Brat _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 20:02:06 +1200 (NZST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Sheridan=20Hoy?= To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Karal/Di Tregarde Message-ID: <20010726080206.86746.qmail-+AT+-web11004.mail.yahoo.com> Heyla listsibs, Someone mentioned Karal and the fact that he would make a good Son of the Sun (is that the right way round?). I always thought that Karal would make a good Herald, and he had a lot of qualities that Heralds do. However, I suppose he was needed more where he was, and could accomplish as much without a Companion as with - same goes for Naritali (?spelling) I suppose? Out of interest, what does everyone else think? Also, I have finished reading Children of the Night and have started in Jinx High! They are great books, and remind me a lot of the Serrated Edge (which were written after the Di books I believe?). I believe the whole discussion about Ahrodie (Dirk's Companion) has been covered, but someone mentioned asked whether the Companions were gender specific? "Are spirits gender specific? Granted, we know of two incarnations of Rolan as a MALE companion, but .... could that just be chance or perhaps spirit preference?" Of all the Heralds that we know have come back as Companions - Savyil, Jaysen, Tantris to name but 3 - they seem to come back as the gender they were, which I think fits in to whole concept of them retaining memories. I mean, you would get pretty confused if you had all the memories of your past life but came back as a different gender, wouldn't you? Not sure how well I explained that tenuous thread - hope I didn't lose anyone on the way :) Bright the Day, tamlin _____________________________________________________________________________ http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger - Voice chat, mail alerts, stock quotes and favourite news and lots more! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 03:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Li'nia Stormdancer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Karal/Ahrodie Message-ID: <20010726100241.3981.qmail-+AT+-web13804.mail.yahoo.com> Heyla List-Sibs! First off, thanks everyone for refreshing my memory on something that I REALLY should have remembered (ref: male MOCs). I'm just a bit forgetful sometimes... lol --- Sheridan Hoy wrote: > Someone mentioned Karal and the fact that he would > make a good Son of the Sun (is that the right way > round?). I always thought that Karal would make a > good Herald, and he had a lot of qualities that >Heralds do. However, I suppose he was needed more >where he was, and could accomplish as much without a >Companion as with - same goes for Naritali (?>spelling) I suppose? I have to agree with you on this one, Tamlin. Karal really didn't need a Companion to accomplish what he did. Yes, he did have Florian with him, but he wasn't Chosen, and Florian was pretty much just there to act as the representative of Valdemar in what needed to be done, and to act as a spirit or anchor... Karal would make a good Son of the Sun, though. He would have also made a good Herald, because he had the right characteristics, but he's too stable to need to be one (I believe it's been discussed that Heralds tended to need their Companions, to help balance them out in some way). And Natoli is the same way; very independent, and very balanced (very passionate about her work, too! lol). And back to Karal... I don't think Vkandis (sp?) would have let him go!! Someone else wrote (sorry, missed the name!): >I always wondered if Dirk's companion was Grove Born >as well.. >Based on the conversation that went something to the >effect of.. (I think it was Elspleth in Arrow's Fall >talking to Dirk..) >"Don't they ever interfere?" >"Not in living memory, and then only Grove Born >companions, and the only one of those we have is >Rolan." I don't think that Ahrodie is Grove-born; I think she just lended her strength when Rolan asked for it. Rolan asked Dirk to help him, since he knew there was a strong tie between him and Talia, and also that his Gift was Fetching, which is what was needed at the time. I believe that Ahrodie was just helping her Chosen out, and adding to what Rolan was already giving Dirk in the way of augmenting his Gift... Companions don't interfere unless they are asked to do so, and even then, they won't give any more that is necessary. (Okay, Gwena's meddling with Elspeth was kind of a special case. But even then, she really didn't give advice to Elspeth unless it was asked for. i.e. Elspeth fooling around with that boy when she was younger.) So far as I know, the MOC is the only Grove-born Companion at any given time; Gwena is a special case, as she's Chosen the first of the new Herald-Mages, and I believe the God of Valdemar knew what he was doing with that one... (She pretty much had to be a "new" spirit, so she wouldn't have any preconceptions or memories about the last of the old Herald-Mages...) But, that's just my two-cents-worth! Death-by-chocolate sheep to everyone! ===== ---<---<---<----+AT+- Li'nia Stormdancer -+AT+---->--->--->--- Peon to the Powers That Be, Goddess of All Things Possessed, & Caretaker of the Arena of Discussion and Dissention __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:28:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Silvershadow To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: new topics!! Message-ID: <20010726152800.29453.qmail-+AT+-web4501.mail.yahoo.com> Heyla all! Yes. New topics, mainly cause i was wondering about them. First: I was stareing fondly at a book of ML's today anf noticed in te inside jacket, no just a referance to the book called 'Knights Gambit'. Does anyone know anything about that book??? Second: This has ben bugging me for a while. In the Vows and Honour duology I'd assume that Tarma and Kethry are between the ages of about 19 - 25 and these books take place in the year 1270AF. Now they are 'obviously' mentioned in the book, 'By the sword' which takes place 'around' 1376AF. Now that is a diffrence of 106 years, plys their prospective ages. Now. I can accept Kethry, being a mage, can prolong her life. And I can accept it of Warral being able to live this long mainly because I don't, that I can remember, think ML has said what the average lifespan of a Kree is. But what about Tarma?? Is Kethry extending her life somehow? That must be a majorly draining spell to cast of her AND Tarma. Or is the fact that she's Kel'enedral?? Thoughts anyone...?? ===== Zhai'hellava ~Silvershadow~ Chocobo of Legend Wielder of the Sacred SPOON __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2651 **********************************