MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2689 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: kethry by Matt Neimeyer 2) Re: Half Blood Chronicles (yet again) by "** MidnightRider **" 3) Re: Valdemaran Bill of Rights - Privacy of the mind by "Layla Voll" 4) Re: Valdemaran Bill of Rights - Privacy of the mind by DWBAHRKE-+AT+-aol.com 5) Re: kethry by TrinityWch-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: kethry by "** MidnightRider **" 7) E-mail? by "James D. Barnes" 8) Re: E-mail? by "mark the tax zombie" 9) Re: E-mail? by "tntgray" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 14:07:32 -0400 From: Matt Neimeyer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: kethry Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010906140233.00a93098-+AT+-ambriel.youth-guard.org> >And kethry does the spell to let her become an adapt while she is in >valdemaar. Now I know that she does comment (I can't remember if it is in >oathbreakers or By the sword) on the feeling of a mage being watched in >valdemar, and I also remember her saying that 'it >gets worse when you try to cast magic' (or words to that affect). In that >case, seing as the valdemar magic guard was obviously working then, >wouldn't she have had huge problems casting her adept spell? And they >didn't seem to have that much trouble talking to herald roald about magic >either. Or did I miss something. Somewhere else it's mentioned (I'm guessing Mage Storms, because I think Vanyel's ghost is the one that says it... could be wrong that as far as that spell is concerned that the borders of Valdemar are roughly the same as where heralds actively patrol / have circuits. The reason, I assume is that the vrondi / watchers are tied to the net that makes up all the heralds. So where they go the net goes. Where they don't go the net doesn't either. So when Kethry and crew are that far out from the center of Valdemar I would guess that they don't have regular circuits there and thus that could explain why she wasn't bothered by the vrondi watchers. I also seem to remember (and again I could be wrong) that someone who wasn't a Herald Mage figured out what they were and ignored them thereafter. Matt Half Forgotten Sheep for everyone I remember ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 13:42:11 -0500 From: "** MidnightRider **" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Half Blood Chronicles (yet again) Message-ID: >From: Ryoko >Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >To: greathousec-+AT+-hotmail.com >Subject: Half Blood Chronicles (yet again) >Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 13:59:16 +0100 (BST) > >I hate to beat a dead horse, but what ever happened to the last two books >of the Half Blood Chronicles series? Last I heard, Elvenbred was supposed >to be coming out at the end of 2000 (which it never did) and not sure >about Elvenborn. Does anyone know if they're put on halt indefinitely, or >if there is any plan to go through with them in the near future? > >(I'm having a lot of trouble navigating firebirdart's website, so if the >answer is there, I couldn't find it.) > >Hopeful sheep to all. If I am thinking about the same series as you (I am at work right now with no way to check my personal library) the second book is out. I recieved it as a gift when my mother found it at a garage sale early this year. I went looking and found the first one at Barnes & Noble but have yet to find the third. Good luck to your search. Chris _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 18:45:24 From: "Layla Voll" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Valdemaran Bill of Rights - Privacy of the mind Message-ID: --- Peter Allen wrote: >>what does everyone think about a Herald's ability >>to "search and seize" based off of thoughts alone? Li'nia responds: >I think it's a good idea in theory, but there's many >problems inherent with that method. Is it based off >of what one Herald "hears", or must it be verified by >another Herald first before they can move forward with >the procedure? There seems to be a fairly strict ethical code, although I don't think it’s been formalized into a legal code. The US Bill of Rights was in large part designed to protect individuals against the excesses of the state: Valdemar can and does rely on the fact that all of the state "weapons" are solely in the hands of Heralds, who are presumed to be held to a higher moral standard by their own character, the Companions, and the Heraldic Circle. That said: I don't remember Heralds ever fishing around in people's minds unasked. Even Eldan, when he's doing vital spy work in Karse in "By the Sword," doesn’t delve into people's minds: Kerowyn at first frowns on what she thinks he's doing (she *thinks* he's actively searching people's minds for information), but then realizes that he is instead simply being more open to leaking surface thoughts. I forget how she puts it, exactly, but the difference seems to be that Heralds are allowed to be passively open to what people may be broadcasting (similar in US law to the ruling that cell phone conversations are deemed open broadcasts, and thus admissible evidence in court) versus actively rooting around in someone's mind without permission (which, to really strain the metaphor, would be equivalent to wiretapping). Use of the Truth Spell seems to be very specifically proscribed, or at least it is in the Arrows books: it seems to be strictly limited only to use at formal court trials, and then only for certain kinds of cases, possibly only for murder or attempted murder, or maybe also at the discretion of the Monarch. In "Arrows of the Queen," Keren tells Talia that they weren't allowed to use the Truth Spell on her Blue attackers because she hadn't died. Talia says that one of them told her to "give their love to Talamir," and Keren says she wishes they'd known that earlier. Presumably they could have charged the Blues with attempted murder in a court of law, and possibly used the Truth Spell, if they had evidence of an actual, premeditated threat to Talia's life. The only times I remember seeing the Truth Spell used, outside of Collegium practice, is in Evan Trader's murder trial (Arrow's Flight), and when Elspeth (acting as Heir on behalf of the Queen) has Kyril and Elcarth Truth Spell the Council after Orthallen's treachery is revealed. Any others? Thus, the Truth Spell is essentially a way of binding people to tell the truth in situations where, at the least in the US, one would be legally bound to tell the truth anyway (when swearing an oath of allegiance, or when giving testimony in a court of law). What I don’t remember is whether you have the right to refuse the Truth Spell, which would get back to the question of whether Valdemareans have the equivalent of Fifth Amendment protection (the right not to be forced to incriminate yourself in a court of law). I do remember that Orthallen's henchperson on the Council was allowed to resign rather than submit to the Truth Spell, which meant he was never formally accused of treason. Lady True writes: > The point is that we are led to believe that that Truth Spell is >infaliable. If this is indeed true then I believe it is a "fair" thing to >do by the appropriate ppl (i.e. law enforcement type >ppl...i.e...Heralds). Of course there can be limits on it's uses and it >would need to be supervised properly in order to not have it abused. The >"accused" would still need some sort of checks and balances against those >that might abuse the Truth Spell for revenge or something akin to that. The point is also made (at least in Arrows) that the Truth Spell only tells you whether the person is telling the truth, not whether the content of what he is saying is accurate. Recent criminology studies have shown that eyewitness testimony is about the lousiest and least accurate evidence you can get. (Actually, I guess people have been pointing that out since the days of Sir Walter Raleigh.) So the Truth Spell doesn’t really provide you with infallible testimony -- it only allows you to bind witnesses to unperjured testimony. Michael McNeill writes: >That said, does the compulsion of truth by the Heralds convey the nuances >of the thoughts? That is, can a Herald differentiate between someone (for >example) who owns a warship and dislikes the govt but tolerates it over >anarchy as opposed to someone who owns a warship and is intent on >disrupting the govt? The Truth Spell is only able to compel the speaker to speak the truth in the most direct way possible: Talia notes in practicing it that she is unable even to fudge her answers in that not-actively-telling-a-lie kind of way. It's, again, more of a passive thing than an active thing, and its use is not dependent on the interpretation of the Herald. I think, if I read Last Herald Mage correctly, it’s actually dependent on the interpretation of the vrondi (little blue spirits), who are supposedly attracted to people who are lying. It probably acts more like a lie detector than anything else -- I don't know what it is about lying people that attracts the vrondi, but it could certainly be the racing heartbeat, etc, etc, that a lie detector picks up. Layla _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 15:57:09 EDT From: DWBAHRKE-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Valdemaran Bill of Rights - Privacy of the mind Message-ID: In a message dated 9/6/2001 2:43:49 PM US Eastern Standard Time, layla_voll-+AT+-hotmail.com writes: > > I think, if I read Last Herald Mage correctly, it’s actually dependent on > the interpretation of the vrondi (little blue spirits), who are supposedly > attracted to people who are lying. It probably acts more like a lie > detector than anything else -- I don't know what it is about lying people > that attracts the vrondi, but it could certainly be the racing heartbeat, > etc, etc, that a lie detector picks up. > I just reread that and you have it just the opposite. When Vanyel used it on Tashir he explained that the vrondi are repelled when someone lies not attracted. It was also stated that regular heralds (non-herald-mages) can only call a first stage truth spell which only tells you if someone is lying not compel them to tell the truth. David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:29:27 EDT From: TrinityWch-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: kethry Message-ID: --part1_a4.195c34a0.28c944b7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/6/2001 1:48:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, morrigan_moon-+AT+-hotmail.com writes: > In that > case, seing as the valdemar magic guard was obviously working then, > wouldn't > she have had huge problems casting her adept spell? And they didn't seem > to > have that much trouble talking to herald roald about magic either. Or did > I > miss something. > > I hope even some of the above made sense to someone. > Umm... I believe the way it *works* is that someone that has bad intentions will feel so uncomfortable by the feeling of being watched that their paranoia and natural suspicion of everyone else would eventually drive them out of Valdemar. And Heralds eventually remember magic if someone is talking about it enough, but will *forget* about it when not exposed to it. The vrondi don't stop magic, they just act as annoying as knats. --part1_a4.195c34a0.28c944b7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/6/2001 1:48:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
morrigan_moon-+AT+-hotmail.com writes:


In that
case, seing as the valdemar magic guard was obviously working then,
wouldn't
she have had huge problems casting her adept spell?  And they didn't seem
to
have that much trouble talking to herald roald about magic either.  Or did
I
miss something.

I hope even some of the above made sense to someone.


Umm... I believe the way it *works* is that someone that has bad intentions
will feel so uncomfortable by the feeling of being watched that their
paranoia and natural suspicion of everyone else would eventually drive them
out of Valdemar.  And Heralds eventually remember magic if someone is talking
about it enough, but will *forget* about it when not exposed to it.  The
vrondi <sp?> don't stop magic, they just act as annoying as knats.

--part1_a4.195c34a0.28c944b7_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 22:53:54 -0500 From: "** MidnightRider **" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: kethry Message-ID: In the book by the sword, didn't the Skybolts Mages, atleast one of whom was a White Winds Mage, feel "watched" even when they were perorming the simplest and defintely harmless magics? And the farther into Valdemar they went the stronger the sensation? So much so that they turned back due to stress and frustration. They were defintly on Valdemars side but seemed to have problems with the Vrondi. Maybe this is a Mistyake? Just thinking about it........ Peace. >From: TrinityWch-+AT+-aol.com >Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >To: greathousec-+AT+-hotmail.com >Subject: Re: kethry >Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 22:43:47 +0100 (BST) > >--part1_a4.195c34a0.28c944b7_boundary >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >In a message dated 9/6/2001 1:48:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >morrigan_moon-+AT+-hotmail.com writes: > > > > In that > > case, seing as the valdemar magic guard was obviously working then, > > wouldn't > > she have had huge problems casting her adept spell? And they didn't >seem > > to > > have that much trouble talking to herald roald about magic either. Or >did > > I > > miss something. > > > > I hope even some of the above made sense to someone. > > > >Umm... I believe the way it *works* is that someone that has bad intentions >will feel so uncomfortable by the feeling of being watched that their >paranoia and natural suspicion of everyone else would eventually drive them >out of Valdemar. And Heralds eventually remember magic if someone is >talking >about it enough, but will *forget* about it when not exposed to it. The >vrondi don't stop magic, they just act as annoying as knats. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 23:07:48 -0500 From: "James D. Barnes" To: Subject: E-mail? Message-ID: Anyone know of a way to send fanmail or something to Heather Alexander? I'm from New Orleans and have been listening to her day and night. I've been Following Misty and all her books since I was, I think 6. I was just wondering if I could send a letter to Alexander and tell her that even in New Orleans her voice is loud and clear? I haven't been here all my life, but I was born here, and it's where I ended back up. I've been to the far east, but never the west. And can someone fill me in on what originally inspired Misty to start writing, or if there is an article somewhere? I'd appreciate it. I apologize for not being that active, I've had a lot going on in my life and haven't had much time, but I'm still in the the crowd and staying put. James of NOLA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 08:23:57 -0500 From: "mark the tax zombie" To: Subject: Re: E-mail? Message-ID: <008901c137a0$5b1ce580$47c6e4d8-+AT+-MarkSeverson> Here's the address for Heathers site. Sea Fire Productions URL: http://www.heatherlands.com/ enjoy! mttz ----- Original Message ----- From: James D. Barnes To: Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:31 PM Subject: E-mail? > Anyone know of a way to send fanmail or something to Heather Alexander? I'm > from New Orleans and have been listening to her day and night. I've been > Following Misty and all her books since I was, I think 6. I was just > wondering if I could send a letter to Alexander and tell her that even in > New Orleans her voice is loud and clear? I haven't been here all my life, > but I was born here, and it's where I ended back up. I've been to the far > east, but never the west. And can someone fill me in on what originally > inspired Misty to start writing, or if there is an article somewhere? I'd > appreciate it. > > I apologize for not being that active, I've had a lot going on in my life > and haven't had much time, but I'm still in the the crowd and staying put. > > James of NOLA > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 10:57:42 -0500 From: "tntgray" To: Subject: Re: E-mail? Message-ID: <002a01c137b5$d676c240$6f111b3f-+AT+-pavilion> Heyla, >James of NOLA wanted to know, >Anyone know of a way to send fanmail or something to Heather Alexander? I'm > from New Orleans and have been listening to her day and night. Why don't you try www.firebirdarts.com ? Much of her music can be purchased there, and They may have a way to contact her. You can also search for her web site, I don't remember what it is called, sorry. He continues: > I apologize for not being that active, I've had a lot going on in my life > and haven't had much time, but I'm still in the the crowd and staying put. Well, welcome to the light! Please do stay and participate when you can. Dax the Eternal, Goddess of Elves and Unicorns, Councilor of Mist, Knight of Fluff Evangelist of Low Humor, Mistic Watcher of Continuity NewbieFest: http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/misty/newbiefest.html Zone: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/zone47/artists/tiffanie2/tiffanie2.html Loth: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/lothlorien/artists/tiffanie/tiffanie.html Library: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/library/writers/tiff/tiff.html "Artists are the people among us who realize creation didn't stop on the sixth day." (Joel Witkin) ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2689 **********************************