MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2695 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: NYC etc by troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk 2) Re: OT: prayers by Kasebones-+AT+-cs.com 3) Re: OT: prayers by "Charlotte DiStefano" 4) Re: OT: prayers by "Lorna Appleby" 5) Re: Petition Alert from Clair by DWBAHRKE-+AT+-aol.com 6) RE: Petition Alert from Clair by "Terri Carter" 7) Re: calm by Heather Lee 8) RE: Petition Alert from Clair by "TPONY WHITEHORSE" 9) Very OT: Calling New York by "Layla Voll" 10) Re: Petition Alert from Clair by "Lorna Appleby" 11) OT : World Events. by "Lorna Appleby" 12) Re: Petition Alert from Clair by Michael C McNeill 13) RE: calm by "Dionne, Judith" 14) All subscribers please read by "Peter Allen" 15) trying to relate to Misty's fiction by Julia Gray 16) Re: Valdemaran Bill of Rights - Privacy of the mind by "Peter Allen" 17) Fw: Legacy of Hate by "Tim & Tiffanie Gray" 18) Re: trying to relate to Misty's fiction by Sisterbluerose 19) Re: Petition Alert from Clair by "mark the tax zombie" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 21:32:48 +0100 From: troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk To: circle_of_stone-+AT+-onelist.com Subject: Re: NYC etc Message-ID: <2001912213653441-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk> Peace to the innocent, justice to the guilty...and wisdom to determine who is who. That is what I seek, for all of us. I too have lost relatives and friends in this horror, and am somewhere on the border between grief and fury...but as Liz said, there is little gain in focusing that fury on the wrong people, and thus escalating the tragedy further. My deepest condolences to anyone else who has lost people dear to them in NY or DC, together with my fervent wish that the true perpetrators are identified - and punished to the fullest extent. Muranog (.sig snipped due to crossposting) P.S. Apologies to those people who're on both lists and will receive this twice, was the easiest way to send it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:25:29 EDT From: Kasebones-+AT+-cs.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: prayers Message-ID: <54.1ac8a924.28d11eb9-+AT+-cs.com> I'm only about 15 minutes away from the Pentegon, and my area is pretty much in shock. Schools have been closed for today and yesterday, as well as all federal and governmant buildings. Pretty scary for all of us. Keep all the victims in your prayers. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 20:43:26 From: "Charlotte DiStefano" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: prayers Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who's replied to my post. I'm doing all right...I can hardly complain, as there are severla thousand people who are a much worse off than I am. I'm getting out of the city for the weekend, which will be really nice. As terrible as this tragedy is, it's nice to see people pulling together. There was so little chaos, I can't hardly even believe it, even though I was standing right in the middle of it. When they evacuated lower Manhattan, everyone just calmly walked north; no problems whatsoever. Everyone is trying to help out in any way that they can. Wealthy people have started buying food, and donating it to the shelters that have been set up around the city. There are placed to give blood all over, and the lines are HUGE...so many people have given blood. A whole bunch of NYU pre-med students (I'm an NYU student) have been volunterring at the hospitals, which is incredible. It's going to take a long time for things to really settle down here, but at least we've got a start. Charlotte (Lightsong) ----Original Message Follows---- From: Li'nia Stormdancer To: talia27-+AT+-hotmail.com Subject: Re: OT: prayers Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 10:54:48 -0700 (PDT) Heyla! I don't know when you're going to get this, but I'll be thinking of you up there in NY and praying for you and yours! I'm glad you were not one of the casualties; I know that you will forever carry the scars of this mentally and emotionally, if not physically as well. But I'm very happy to know that you've survived, and from the sound of your posting, that you're on your way to recovering from this... Becky sans sig. --- Charlotte DiStefano wrote: > Be happy that you're in France. I was only a couple > of blocks from the > towers, and trust me, I would much rather have been > on the other side of the > world. The good wishes are much appreciated...there > are a LOT of people who > need them. I can't even tell you what it was like > to see that happen...I > hope I never see anything so horrible again. I'm > trying to let all of my > family and friends know that I'm okay, but all of > the phone lines are down, > so that makes things rather difficult. Is there > anyone else on the list > from this area? Is everyone okay? I hope that this > horrible event can be > resolved quickly..as vain a hope as that is, I don't > want to think about > what kind of a situation this could turn into... > > Lightsong __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 13:52:28 -0700 From: "Lorna Appleby" To: Subject: Re: OT: prayers Message-ID: <00b101c13bcc$d55e78b0$f201a8c0-+AT+-backtalk.org> >I am from Southern connecticut and everyone is just kinda of in a daze and >in shock it is creepy and scary. I would like to add that even if it is >frustrating because of busy signals lines and overflow at the blood banks >just be patient because they still need as many donors as possible even if >it may not seem so. I know that it has been said many times before but if >you are eligable you have to give blood. It will save a life as cheesy as >that sounds. I'm not eligible to give blood because I have lived in Britain in '82. (I don't recall the actual cut off date, but I know I'm ineligible because of that fact) but however, I volunteered today to go down tomorrow to make coffee, serve cookie and juice and keep an eye on people who are relaxing after giving blood. The Red Cross also will need people to answer phones, organize information and anyone with medical training (First aid tickets in particular) are very welcome right now as they organize for this domestic (Even though I'm in Canada, our division of the Red Cross is considering this a domestic disaster) nightmares. So, even if you can't give blood and can't afford to give money, there's still plenty you can do to help! But, you can still donate to the Red Cross by contacting them either at their website or by toll-free number that takes credit cards. http://www.redcross.org/donate/give 1-800-GIVE-LIFE or in Canada 1-888-2-DONATE -Lorna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 16:49:50 EDT From: DWBAHRKE-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Petition Alert from Clair Message-ID: <155.e1f92b.28d1246e-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 9/12/2001 2:30:18 PM US Eastern Standard Time, eliza77-+AT+-webtv.net writes: > > before anyone jumps on the bandwagon for either peace or all out war, > lets wait and find out who the real perpetrators are, ok? Lets not make > the same mistake our ancestors did during world ward II when they locked > up japanese-americans in internment camps just because they were of > japanese descent. I hearing a lot of anti-arab sentiment today, and I > am hoping that we don't see madness and mayhem in the streets over this. > The man and people who did this are Not an entire nation. You can not > blame an entire nation for the actions of One man, and his military. > Just as you can not blame all americans for the decisions of our > government. > > All I suggest is that we Listen, and Wait and Learn and get the real > facts before we all enlist or what ever we feel prompted to do. Let's > find out who the enemy is before we start shouting "war" ok? > I wanted to say that while I agree that we should not be attacking or harassing our own citizens (or citizens of other countries) just because of their race. I don't think that you can say it is just one man. The governments of the countries that harbor terrorists are just as responsible as the terrorists. If it were not for these governments the terrorists would not have a base of operations to safely conduct "business". Further more once we have established who did this I feel that the United States is completely justified in declaring war on the country and terrorists responsible. David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 19:29:10 -0700 From: "Terri Carter" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Petition Alert from Clair Message-ID: <412001941322910620-+AT+-earthlink.net> Just heard on the news that in all probability the reason the fourth plane did not make it to its target is because the passengers heard what had happened in NY and attacked the hijackers. Thanks to all of you for your replies-I only had two hours of sleep last night and when I saw that petition something just >snapped<. I do not hate Arabs generally-Goddess knows that the Afghan people have suffered horribly under the Taliban regime. I am even one of those who up until yesterday was willing to give the Palistinians the benefit of the doubt/I was not a rabid supporter of Israel. But you can bet that from now on my sentiments lie wholly with our ally who is currently in mourning for us (what a contrast). I do not hate the Arab people, but I can and do hate the regimes which protect madmen in the name of Islam. As far as anti-Arab sentiment in the U.S., You know what? I have not heard one word from the American Arab community of condemnation for the terrorists/act of war perpetrated on the people of the U.S. ARe they Americans or Arabs/muslims first? It is not enough for an American mullah to say "the KOran condemns acts of terror unless it is in a just cause"-because in the 'abode of war' which is the West to those of Islam, any actions/behavior are justified because it is against 'the great satan' the infidels. Additionally, thinking beyond my rage, we as a nation cannot afford not to act. To be seen as 'weak' in the Arab world is a grave mistake. Look at what has happened in Israel lately for an example. I am not saying to go off and attack anything that moves-but to think that finding specific individuals and bringing them to trial(yeah see where that got us last time they tried to blow up the WTC)is going to be enough is unrealistic. I never thought that I would agree with our selected President, but I do. These regimes that protect such fanatics, that provide them with training grounds, funds, and bodies must be punished at such a costly level that NO ONE will make these creatures at home on their soil. This must never ever be permitted to happen again!!!!!! I am now going to go rest-and try to stay away from the constant barrage of the media. I am so proud of my fellow NY'ers-now the world can see why we are such arrogant bastards! We can pull together like nobody's business. Also, GO NATO! JUst saw that the seldom (if ever )used clause of the treaty was invoked, meaning that by attacking one member of the Alliance, means you just bought yourself the whole shebang-as if you had attacked every country in NATO. And special thanks to Canada and the U.K. for all your support-Canada always the first to step up-I was telling my daughter today about the Hostage crisis in 79-80 and how you guys where there helping then too. Next time you send that guy from 22minutes down here to 'talk to Americans' send him to me-I'll give him an earful. Goodnight and may all the gods keep us all. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:42:21 -0400 From: Heather Lee To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: calm Message-ID: <3BA01D0C.E3914304-+AT+-clemson.edu> Hey Liz, I'm a member of the Misty list although I'm more of a lurker than anything. I just wanted to thank you for writing the message you did to the list.... It's horrible to hear that British Muslims are being attacked... A lot of people in the US are also lashing out at anything they can blame at the moment and it frightens me. Anyway, I hope your words have done some good. Heather Mills Liz Hoffman wrote: > I know its hard, but can we get a little less personal? The thing that been > keeping the Northern Irish conflict going is letting grief, rage and anger > determine actions. Not that I wouldn't like it if the people responsable > would drop dead. I don't believe in peace at any price, but lets calm down > enough to get the right people, you know theres already (innocent) British > Muslims being attacked. > Liz > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 06:43:05 +0000 From: "TPONY WHITEHORSE" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Petition Alert from Clair Message-ID: And just what do you think is happening? The President has not launched any air strikes, the marines have not embarked landing craft, and there is no military activity at all. So what has given you the impression that the President is NOT acting rationally? My main point is this. Signing 'peace' petitions are a waste of ink. Decisive, acurate research, planning and execution of chosen plan is what will make a difference in this situation. Step back, OBSERVE what is going on and you will see that what that so called peace petition represents is already in action. TONY >From: "Morrigan Moon" >Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >To: burley1-+AT+-hotmail.com >Subject: RE: Petition Alert from Clair >Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:51:37 +0100 (BST) > >Did you read the petition? The petition is not asking you to ignore what's >happened. all it's asking is that Bush thinks about what he does, before >he >does anything, so that when he does retalliate, it is against those who >actually caused this atrocity, and not against more innocent people. > >Clair > >http://www.crystalgrove.co.uk > > > > >From: "Terri Carter" > >Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk > >To: morrigan_moon-+AT+-hotmail.com > >Subject: RE: Petition Alert from Clair > >Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 15:17:37 +0100 (BST) > > > >Peace my ass! Thousands of Americans are DEAD! I am from NY-and what I >want > >to see is a smoking hole where whoever was responsible USED to be! Save > >your peace petition-maybe you can get the Afghani's who torture and > >mutilate their own people (especially women)and supported these >murderers, > >the Palestinians who CELEBRATED these attacks, and the Pakistani's who >have > >supported Osama bin Laden to sign it. UNBELIEVABLE! > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > From: > > > To: > > > Date: 9/12/01 2:36:00 AM > > > Subject: Petition Alert from Clair > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > > > I have just read and signed the petition: > > > > > > CALL FOR PEACE! > > > > > > Please help by signing this petition. It takes 30 seconds and > > > will really help. Please follow this link: > > > > > > http://www.thePetitionSite.com/takeaction/224622495 > > > > > > The system centralizes signature collection to provide consolidated, > > > useful reports for petition authors and targets. > > > > > > Please forward this email to others you believe share your concern. > > > > > > To view additional petitions, please click here: > > > http://www.thePetitionSite.com > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Total Signatures: 4,470 > > > > > > The 25 most recent signatures* as of 1:33 AM PDT Sep 12, 2001 > > > > > > # 4,470 9/12/01 1:33 AM Anonymous, CA, US > > > # 4,469 9/12/01 1:33 AM Jefferson Kyle, WA, US > > > # 4,468 9/12/01 1:32 AM Anonymous, WA, US > > > # 4,467 9/12/01 1:32 AM Anonymous, SG > > > # 4,466 9/12/01 1:32 AM D. Charles, VA, US > > > # 4,465 9/12/01 1:32 AM Scott Robb, CA > > > # 4,464 9/12/01 1:32 AM C. G. Owens, SC, US > > > # 4,463 9/12/01 1:32 AM Elaine Murray, NZ > > > # 4,462 9/12/01 1:31 AM Simon Edwards, ZA > > > # 4,461 9/12/01 1:31 AM Billie Barnick, CA, US > > > # 4,460 9/12/01 1:31 AM G Childz, US > > > # 4,459 9/12/01 1:31 AM Kyaw Moe Aung, BN > > > # 4,458 9/12/01 1:31 AM Emma Gallie, GB > > > # 4,457 9/12/01 1:31 AM Angel Velichkov, BG > > > # 4,456 9/12/01 1:31 AM Anonymous, IE > > > # 4,455 9/12/01 1:31 AM Lukas Bures, CZ > > > # 4,454 9/12/01 1:31 AM Phoebe Barnard, NA > > > # 4,453 9/12/01 1:31 AM Anonymous, MY > > > # 4,452 9/12/01 1:31 AM Anonymous, BE > > > # 4,451 9/12/01 1:30 AM Anonymous, CO > > > # 4,450 9/12/01 1:30 AM Anonymous, TZ > > > # 4,449 9/12/01 1:30 AM Anonymous, ES > > > # 4,448 9/12/01 1:30 AM Nina Nina, NO > > > # 4,447 9/12/01 1:30 AM Anonymous, > > > # 4,446 9/12/01 1:30 AM Louisa Boogaard, NL > > > > > > To add your name you MUST use the PetitionSite.com web form located > >here: > > > > > > http://www.thePetitionSite.com/takeaction/224622495 > > > > > > *Signers may choose to hide their identity to the public. Such names > > > will appear as "Anonymous" on the PetitionSite.com and advocacy emails > > > similar to this. > > > > > > To view additional petitions, please click here: > > > http://www.thePetitionSite.com > > > > > > > > > >--- gaia717-+AT+-earthlink.net > >--- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 07:24:16 From: "Layla Voll" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Very OT: Calling New York Message-ID: I know it's been very difficult to call into New York. (Many people have told me this.) Calling *within* New York has been much easier, and my e-mail connections have actually been pretty good. So, if you have a phone number for someone in the 212 area code that you haven't been able to get through to, feel free to email me off-list at layla_voll-+AT+-hotmail.com. I'll try it from here, and e-mail you back. layla _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 03:10:52 -0700 From: "Lorna Appleby" To: Subject: Re: Petition Alert from Clair Message-ID: <003e01c13c3c$5e7b0770$f201a8c0-+AT+-backtalk.org> > The ONLY proper response to the heinous acts that took place is the >complete and total destruction of those who had any part in its inception. I >include in that group any government and or nation >that gave aid and comfort to our enemies. > This is war, nothing less. They have shown by their acts that there are >no rules. So be it. Once we know where the enemy is, and we WILL find that >out, then I say it's time for an ultimatum, give use the people who plotted >these acts, give us the people in your government who supported those who >plotted these acts or prepare to be annihilated. [Snipped the rest] So what you're saying is you want to attack innocent civilians for the actions of their leaders? ..Sounds familiar, doesn't it? I agree that the people who organized the acts of terrorism should be found and punished, but I think that excalating the crimes of harm to civilians will be an even bigger crime than the original acts of terrorism because these things rapidly get out of hand. Cry for justice against the guilt, not for revenge against the innocent. -Lorna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 03:32:28 -0700 From: "Lorna Appleby" To: Subject: OT : World Events. Message-ID: <005401c13c3f$62d70730$f201a8c0-+AT+-backtalk.org> [Warning : Contains subject matter that would be considered adult material] I'm surprised and dismayed by those who are calling for war. The people who are crying for innocent blood to bath the hands of the American troops in retaliation. We don't know for sure who planned and carried out the horrific attack, so why are you crying for blood of people who may not even be responsible? Yes, there are a couple of *very likely* suspects, but none confirmed. Why do you ask for the deaths of innocent civilians of a country? Have you seen the remains of the Americans? Is that why you cry so loudly for more violence? Look upon those remains (They can't be called bodies) again and realize that's what you're asking to be done to people who are in no way related to the attack. (Innocent citizens who live in the countries who have probably never even seen an American, for example) Have you ever even seen a dead body? Have you ever seen a body ripped apart by shrapnel, bullets or falling debris outside of television? Have you ever smelt fields of blood, burnt bodies and released bowels? Have you ever experienced the horrors of violent death? Can you even claim you have an inkling of what you're asking to be done? Are you a member of the military? Or will you be an arm-chair warrior like so many were during the Gulf War? Will you be the one dropping bombs on these people or on the ground shooting bullets into people? Remember Vietnam, women, children, farmers and innocents were killed because they couldn't tell good from bad. You want to call war, you are going to kill people who had nothing to do with the deaths of the people of your nation. Why are you so gung-ho for revenge? Are you listening to media that's pumping out propaganda about how outraged you should be? Do you feel it's expected of you as an American? Do you really want innocent human beings who have caused no crime but living in a country to die? Yes, I agree that those responsible should be brought to justice. But I disagree that innocent people should suffer. That more tens of thousands of people should die because of the actions of a few. We're all human. That should mean something beyond blind cries for blood and revenge. Many of the things you cry to be done to the others is what was just done to you. Two wrongs sure as hell don't make a right. -Lorna ------------------------------------------------- I believe in Truth, Justice and the Canadian way. Shadowydreamer's Crossroads http://shadowydreamer.com Why Women Watch Anime http://shadowydreamer.com/Anime Blue Horizon Simming Group http://www.bhsims.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 06:49:15 -0400 From: Michael C McNeill To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Petition Alert from Clair Message-ID: <20010913.070641.-389585.2.firewing-+AT+-juno.com> On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:56:21 +0100 (BST) Paustinnew-+AT+-aol.com writes: > I am a member of the US military. I am sworn to defend my country. Good luck and God bless. Semper Fi --M, who refuses to sign most petitions ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 07:38:42 -0400 From: "Dionne, Judith" To: Subject: RE: calm Message-ID: <2CCA5938BD61874BBDFD97AA9B6DAF5CB49196-+AT+-scheexc01.FHS.COM> I agree. We have to make sure we get the correct carbon based life forms responsible for this mess. Then we can make them stand on the top of that rubble, right under One Liberty Plaza, and clean up the mess they created by hand, completely naked, 24 hours a day, until it is all gone. Then make them dig ALL the graves for those lives they took.... naked, by hand. Too bad that we don't have telepathy. I really like the justice system on Babylon 5; complete brain wipe, and then their life in service to the community they hurt. Oh, well. For all Americans: Tomorrow is Flags Across America day. Please join us in displaying the American Flag in your car, in your home, place of business, anywhere you can. We also encourage you to wear red, white and blue tomorrow. Judi -----Original Message----- From: Liz Hoffman [mailto:savil1-+AT+-yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 3:26 PM To: Dionne, Judith Subject: calm I know its hard, but can we get a little less personal? The thing that been keeping the Northern Irish conflict going is letting grief, rage and anger determine actions. Not that I wouldn't like it if the people responsable would drop dead. I don't believe in peace at any price, but lets calm down enough to get the right people, you know theres already (innocent) British Muslims being attacked. Liz _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 09:37:24 -0400 From: "Peter Allen" To: Subject: All subscribers please read Message-ID: <001601c13c59$39f1fa40$3e693942-+AT+-triad.rr.com> To all that are involved in the Misty reading list, I am sure that there is a heart-felt sorrow within you over the tragedies which occurred in the NY region. Myself a native of the state, perhaps I can feel the pains more than I would like to admit to. One must remember, however, not to lose the decency which makes us who we are, and what this list is. While I do understand the amount of emotion which each person wishes to convey in regards to what to do next, this is not the place. I repeat, this is not the place. I will take the heat on this one if I must, but I will also not let the list become a spot where people fear opening a post to hear someone else's angered vent. If you must vent, please do so in private. Do not bring it to the open forum. Many people in the world are seeking answers. Many are also seeking peace. Let the ML list be a source of peace amongst the confusion that has set in around us. Should anyone wish to discuss this matter further, I will suggest that you e-mail myself or another Councillor privately. Gentle be thy night under the stars and sky, Wintershard Councilor of Mist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 08:53:41 -0500 From: Julia Gray To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: trying to relate to Misty's fiction Message-ID: <3BA0BA65.1847891F-+AT+-oakton.edu> I was wondering how to bring some of the list back to Misty, so -- how do you think (absolute pure speculation here) some of Misty's characters would react to a situation like this [and use like in a very very general way]? Selenay? Kerowyn? Karal? The emperor? Who's reactions do you think would be closest to what your reactions are? I don't mean to in anyway minimize or "ficitionalize" what happened, so if you think this is inappropriate, please accept my apologies. Betha'lis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:41:41 -0400 From: "Peter Allen" To: Subject: Re: Valdemaran Bill of Rights - Privacy of the mind Message-ID: <013a01c13c62$357053a0$3e693942-+AT+-triad.rr.com> True wrote: > As long as the Herald's abilities are true to form and there is a check and > balance on said abilities I don't have a problem with it. I also think it > works well in Misty's world. The number of times where the fail-safe of "Herald's judgement" has come into play in Misty's books generally astounds me, at times. Even if Heralds and Valdemarans are thought to have little divine intervention from the god/desses which they worship, if their judgement is so tightly-knit as it seems to be, then divine intervention happens on a near-constant basis. > If there were a way for ppl to do that in our society I would be all for it > regardless of the 5th amendment. The point is that we are led to believe > that that Truth Spell is infaliable. If this is indeed true then I believe > it is a "fair" thing to do by the appropriate ppl (i.e. law enforcement type > ppl...i.e...Heralds). Of course there can be limits on it's uses and it > would need to be supervised properly in order to not have it abused. The > "accused" would still need some sort of checks and balances against those > that might abuse the Truth Spell for revenge or something akin to that. Can you give an example of when this might actually occur? I'm curious to see it applied. _.-~-._.-~-._ Michael wrote: > Not having read the Valdemar books (heresy, I know), I unfortunately > can't directly address this. I *can* talk about it in broader terms. Oh, not heresay, just unfortunate ;). Does this mean that you might pick the books up at any point soon? *grin* > Sure, it can be fair - if that is how the govt was originally structured. > Under a monarchial system where the Crown is the absolute soverign, then > such compulsion is to be expected. One of Machiavelli's (paraphrased) > ideas is that you do everything you have to in order to hold on to the > power you have. > > That said, does the compulsion of truth by the Heralds convey the nuances > of the thoughts? That is, can a Herald differentiate between someone > (for example) who owns a warship and dislikes the govt but tolerates it > over anarchy as opposed to someone who owns a warship and is intent on > disrupting the govt? I believe that it is something which is out of the hands of the Heralds, as they are governed by strict guidelines, enforced by not only their contemporaries but also their Companions. However, the Companions themselves are governed by far fewer guidelines, and they are whom I would suspect would notice such thoughts amongst other people before their human counterparts would. After noticing such, they would most likely make subtle nudges towards their Herald in regard to that person or entity. This is also to mention that there is probably some Sight equivalent or perhaps Empathy towards where a trained observer would be able to tell the degrees of someone's distaste: brown for distaste, black for murderous tendencies. This is conjecture, though. Bright be thy day in the sun Wintershard Councilor of Mist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:24:06 -0500 From: "Tim & Tiffanie Gray" To: Subject: Fw: Legacy of Hate Message-ID: <00c501c13c78$e68b1060$8fd8193f-+AT+-TNTGRAY> The following is from the Baen site and is by Misty herself. I think it shows her attitudes on the situation, and we should follow her example. We know that she feels strongly on many subjects and her writing reflects her feelings, they also give her thoughts on what solutions may be to some of those problems. Let's find the literary answers and add them in as on topic/Misty related along with our other prayers and venting. Hugs to all who are hurting, Dax the Eternal, Councilor of Mist ********************************** > From: "Mercedes Lackey" > I woke up Monday morning and turned on the television to something I thought was the special-effects for a disaster movie. > > For about thirty seconds. > > My initial reaction was the same as virtually anyone who saw the video---turn the country of whoever did this into a parking-lot. > > But it was NOT this: lynch the rag-heads, burn a mosque, send 'em all back and kill the ones that won't go. > > You see, that would make me no better than the terrorists. It would make me WORSE than the terrorists. It would make me exactly what the terrorists claim that I am---a stupid, barbaric American, unwilling and unable to understand anything other than my own parochial, fat little world, willing and able only to act in order to protect what I perceive as my own privileges. > > John Ringo says he knows Moslems. Bullshit. I have WORKED with Moslems, lived alongside Moslems, gone to their parties, traded music with their kids. And you can no more lump all 'Moslems' under a single stereotype than you can lump Americans. I've gotten more than a few horrified emails from Arabic, Lebanese and Pakistani friends about this abomination. Until we KNOW who did this, rage in private if you want, but KEEP it private. The lynch-mob attitude that is building in here makes me want to vomit. > > Want someone to blame? Want to vent your anger on a couple of LEGITIMATE targets? Go after United Airlines and American Airlines. This is something I know about; intimately. I WORKED for American Airlines; their security is a joke, they've been fined over 50 times for violating the already lax security proceedures, and that was only the times they've been caught. It is the airlines who handle the security at airports; they don't bother to do background checks and pay them less than a fast-food employee. They have in the past hired convicted drug-dealers, robbers, and rapists to man so-called security checkpoints. I could at any point up until today have gotten a howitzer on an airline, and that was without using my employee ID. > > So go after the airlines. Make them hire real security firms to do real security checks. Insist they tighten their perimeters. Demand that the SkyMarshal program go back into effect. > > While you're doing that, try doing something positive. Do something to prove that Americans are not racist bigots. When others start spouting off about the ragheads, show some spine and stand up against them. Stand up FOR something, FOR tolerance, FOR freedom, FOR what's good about this country. Stop trying to push conditions back into the fifteenth century. We don't need a Fifth Crusade, thank you. What we need is real information and real justice. > > Do something to aid the victims---raise money for the families. Comfort the grieving. Support the rescuers. Heap praise on the brave instead of racist insults. Think about the passengers on Flight 93, who said that 'they were going to do something'---and apparantly did, since 93 crashed in a field, and not on the White House. > > Stop spreading napalm on an already inflammatory situation. It's that kind of hate that caused the horror in the first place. Hate only begets more hate. > > Waiting for real information is the hardest thing in the world to do, but it's the RIGHT thing, the BRAVE thing, and the SMART thing to do. Only then, when we know and can prove who is behind this, should you call for action. And I'll be right there with you, gleefully advocating turning their hideouts into vitreous glass. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:52:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Sisterbluerose To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: trying to relate to Misty's fiction Message-ID: <20010913175207.75881.qmail-+AT+-web13504.mail.yahoo.com> All like "By the Sword" where they all are fighting for their lives, and the enemy mages were willing to destroy their own country to "get back" at Valdemar. I sure wish our government was chosen for us by someone totally good and infallible. I have cast spells, but I wish mine were as powerful as fictional ones. Even if it were a "Brightly Burning" scenario. ===== What's the difference between genius and stupidity? There is an end to genius, there is no end to stupidity. My Mom Sister Blue Rose Lucinda-June Chapman http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PagansforHarryPotter/join http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/NYunschoolPagans http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/uuhomeschooling School takes 13 years, because that is how long it takes to break a child's spirit. ML King http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/OzSalon http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/Womanspirit __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:42:39 -0500 From: "mark the tax zombie" To: Subject: Re: Petition Alert from Clair Message-ID: <000f01c13c73$1b682440$40c6e4d8-+AT+-MarkSeverson> ----- Original Message ----- From: Lorna Appleby To: Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Petition Alert from Clair > > The ONLY proper response to the heinous acts that took place is the complete and total destruction of those who had any part in its inception. > I include in that group any government and or nation > >that gave aid and comfort to our enemies. > > > This is war, nothing less. They have shown by their acts that there are no rules. So be it. Once we know where the enemy is, and we WILL find that out, then I say it's time for an ultimatum, give use the people who plotted these acts, give us the people in your government who supported those who plotted these acts or prepare to be annihilated. > > [Snipped the rest] > > So what you're saying is you want to attack innocent civilians for the actions of their leaders? > I made no mention of attacking innocent civilians. Once we learn whodid this when we demand that the government of the nation that is harboring them to turn them over if they refuse to do so then I say go after those who refused to turn over the beasts that planned this act. Hit them and hit them and hit them again until they sue for peace and beg our forgiveness. If on the other hand you think that this is going to be a nice clean operation where NO innocents are going to injured or killed then all I can say is you are living in a fantasy world. No, what happened did not cause me to hate all people of the near east, nor did it cause me to hate anyone of a selected religion. That said it DID ignite a hatered of those who had any part in this act and I hope they end up burning in the deepest pits of hell. What happened was an act of war. The response must be such that no one will ever contemplate such an act again. mttz ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2695 **********************************