MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2696 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) RE: trying to relate to Misty's fiction by "Terri Carter" 2) Re: trying to relate to Misty's fiction by "Li'nia Stormdancer" 3) Warning: this is Off Topic & long. by "Misty's Secretary" 4) Misty's Comments on the attack. by "Misty's Secretary" 5) Re: OT: Prayers by "Rachel Hawkins" 6) Re: OT : World Events. by Paustinnew-+AT+-aol.com 7) Re: OT : World Events. by "Lorna Appleby" 8) RE: Petition Alert from Clair by "Morrigan Moon" 9) Re: OT: prayers by "Morrigan Moon" 10) Re: OT: Prayers by "Barbara Slater" 11) Re: OT: prayers by "Lorna Appleby" 12) RE: OT: prayers by "Howell, Tommy" 13) MIST: Giving blood by Kenneth Allen Hyde 14) Re: OT : World Events. by "Terri Carter" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:39:43 -0700 From: "Terri Carter" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: trying to relate to Misty's fiction Message-ID: <4120019413183943890-+AT+-earthlink.net> >how do you think (absolute pure speculation here) some of Misty's characters would react to a situation like this [and use like in a very very general way]? Selenay? Kerowyn? Karal? The emperor? Who's reactions do you think would be closest to what your reactions are?< Greetings everyone, Finally slept last night and I trying to return as much as possible to normalcy(or a close approximation). Let me focus on this question. If you look at Winds of Fury when Ancar attacks Elspeth says "Valdemar is not grainfeilds or roads or cattle, it is not cities and it is not even the land itself. It is people. Grain will grow again, herds can be bred, houses can be rebuilt.It is the lives of our people that are at stake here, and we must preserve them. That is what we must fight for every precious life! There is no book which cannot be rewritten, no temple which cannot be rebuilt, SO LONG AS THOSE LIVES ARE PRESERVED! SO LONG AS THE PEOPLE LIVE, SO DOES VALDEMAR!" This is where those who did this awful thing went wrong-they equated America with money and military-and those are part of us....BUT we are so much more. While we live and are united, so to is America. As for Kerowyn's response-that lady should be in charge of the CIA..if you remember it was she who sent Elspeth, Darkwind and the others as an assination team into Hardorn to get the real persons responsible for the carnage, so the Hardornen people would not have to suffer more. And in Winds of Change, even Gwena agrees that you do not give the same consideration to people like Ancar when she says "The man is a mad dog, you don't give a mad dog a chance to bite you and you don't try and cure it. You get rid of it before it destroys something you love." Gaia --- gaia717-+AT+-earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:35:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Li'nia Stormdancer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: trying to relate to Misty's fiction Message-ID: <20010913183557.62473.qmail-+AT+-web13801.mail.yahoo.com> Heyla List-Sibs! --- Julia Gray wrote: > I was wondering how to bring some of the list back > to Misty, so -- how do you > think (absolute pure speculation here) some of > Misty's characters would react > to a situation like this [and use like in a very > very general way]? Selenay? > Kerowyn? Karal? The emperor? Who's reactions do you > think would be closest to > what your reactions are? I think the Emporer would probably go ahead and destroy the whole area around where he thought the threat was. He was going to destroy all of Valdemar (and the rest of the world, as well) at one point. And Valdemar hadn't done anything to his specifically; all he had was conjecture at this point, and the perceived threat out of Valdemar. So, he would take his revenge by destroying EVERYTHING. Granted, he was insane and knew he was going to die (some of it had to do with the thought of "if I can't live, neither will anyone else".), but he thought he had an enemy out there, and wanted to retaliate with everything he had. This coincides with many views in our country today. Kerowyn, Selenay, and the other Heralds would probably opt for a political assassination, if possible. They wouldn't want to harm any innocents if they could avoid it. And Karal... well... I love Karal, but he would be the one to say that we shouldn't really do anything on a large scale. He wasn't out to kill anyone, even after his mentor had been killed right before his eyes, and he himself was attacked. He found it in his heart/soul to forgive those who'd attacked him. Now, what he'd do with so many innocents as victims, I'm not sure... He's probably the one that most people in the USA will relate to the least right now. Personally, I'd go with what I said about Kero and Selenay; I would prefer to retaliate with as few innocent victims as possible, but I want to get the people that did this very much... Judith wrote: >Too bad that we don't have telepathy. I really like >the justice system on Babylon 5; complete brain wipe, >and then their life in service to the community they >hurt. Oh, well. While I do love "Babylon 5" (and something along those same lines was also in an episode of "FarScape"), that works for some crimes, but not all. I think another idea, this one from the Arrows Trilogy, is what Talia did to that rapist. IIRC, didn't she take the memories and/or emotions of his victim and put them into the head of the perpatrator? And have it in a sort of neverending loop, that would continue until he'd repented (or come to his senses, or died?). Except, in this case, it could go on forever, the person(s) being locked in a prison, or, as suggested earlier, making them help rebuild what they destroyed. I'm just trying to tie this into Misty's books; this obviously isn't an option to us, but I'm taking this as what could be done in Velgarth. Just a thought... As noted earlier, I'm not trying to trivialize the tragedy thrust upon our country, but I am just trying to live up to the spirit of this List... ===== ---<---<---<----+AT+- Li'nia Stormdancer -+AT+---->--->--->--- Peon to the Powers That Be, Goddess of All Things Possessed, & Caretaker of the Arena of Discussion and Dissention __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:28:13 -0600 From: "Misty's Secretary" To: Subject: Warning: this is Off Topic & long. Message-ID: The following was written by myself the day after the attack. This is off the topic of the mailing list, and quite long. Skip if you want to stay to the subject matter. I expect that every last one of you will remember where you were on the morning of the 11th September 2001, when you heard the news that America had been subjected to the worst terrorist attack that man has ever seen. I was between Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona. An hour later, I was on my way back, making a desperate run for home in order to help with the local volunteer fire department wherever I could. As you are probably aware, I am British. I come from England, and have lived in several places within that country. Over the period of my lifetime, Great Britain has been ravaged by terrorist actions on many many occasions. The most common reason for this is the Irish issue. The island of Ireland is a landmass off the west coast of mainland Great Britain. Most of which forms the independent nation of Ireland or Eire. The remaining portion, between 5 and 10 per cent of the mass is under British control, and is the area known as Northern Ireland. Some Irish people believe that Northern Ireland should be part of the Irish nation, and are willing to express their displeasure in rather extreme ways. To give one example of the hundreds of terrorist bombings and shootings that have occurred within Britain and Ireland in the past few decades: On the 8th November, 1987 a bomb exploded in the heart of the town of eniskillen, on remembrance Sunday (a day dedicated to remembering Britain's war dead). 10 people were killed and 63 injured. On April 19th 1995, Timothy McVeigh destroyed the McMurrah federal building in Oklahoma City. For the first time, America had to face the reality of large-scale terrorism within its borders. Within Great Britain, then under attack from the terrorist organisation, the IRA, there was sympathy. We knew what it was like to have people we knew snatched away in a moment of violence. Underlying this though, was the feeling that perhaps, now, the Americans would also know what it feels like. We were no longer so isolated. I say this to explain that terrorism is something that I am familiar with. I had to live with it every day. One day, while I was living in Oxford, I woke up to find that the city had been closed. A bomb had been discovered in a store around 100 yards from where I had been sleeping. I cannot describe how chilling it is to find something so horrific, but each one of us is a potential tourist, and each one of us may have considered visiting New York and perhaps, just perhaps visiting the twin towers of the world trade centre. Some of you may already have been in that situation. I have not, and now never will. I believe that the facts have been available in the media enough that it would be pointless to go over it here. What is clear is that the American response to terrorism echoes the british response. There is shock and anger. Very rapidly this response is put onto the back burner as people move in to deal with the situation. Tuesday 11th September was a day of heroes. I think it far better to remember it as such. There are the heroes that responded to the first call, after what they must have believed was a tragic accident of a plane hitting the world trade centre. Those same heroes became martyrs as 18 minutes after the first explosion, a second one rained debris upon those who were only there to rescue the injured and fight the fire. Despite this loss, more firemen and police rushed to the scene to pick up, knowing full well that they too were at risk. The plane that crashed in Pennsylvania is of note. One news report I heard said that one passenger used a mobile phone to explain that they had been hijacked and were going to rush the hijackers. I imagine that their relatives had explained to them what had happened at the world trade centre; and armed with that knowledge the passengers decided to act. This plane crashed into the ground. Whatever happened on that plane is not at this time clear, but I cannot believe that it was part of the terrorists plan to merely crash the plane. Whatever the passengers and crew did, it prevented that plane from being used as a bomb in a highly populated place. Whoever took that action sacrificed themselves in order to save others. They are heroes. These heroes are what we should be thinking of. Our rage must be controlled until a time when it can be directed against a sure target. Until then, rather than think of only the loss, remember that it was also a day of heroes, and be proud. Speaking for my fellow countrymen, I have no doubt that their thoughts and prayers are with those who suffered loss. It is time for the world to stand united. In June 1963 John F Kennedy stood in Berlin to give a speech that underscored the determination of the western world to stand by the people of Berlin, newly isolated by troops and walls. He stated "Ich Bin Ein Berliner" in an attempt to show how he wished to stand united with the people of berlin. It was a good speech. I feel I ought to say that on that fateful day, I felt something that I never thought I would. I was proud to count myself as an American. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:30:16 -0600 From: "Misty's Secretary" To: Subject: Misty's Comments on the attack. Message-ID: Teri Lee has asked me to write something about the events of September 11th. [Paul's Note: The text here is thus almost certainly posted on www.firebirdarts.com] I'm not a military expert, nor an authority on terrorism. I'm not a psychiatrist or a socialogist. I'm not any kind of an expert; I'm just someone who writes books. But amid all the grief, all the anger, all the desire---the need---for some way to strike back at those who have perpetrated this evil, I am seeing, and feeling in myself, the proliferation of the same evil, creeping into the way Americans are thinking, and tainting what we are. I see and hear threats against all Moslems, or even people that just LOOK like Moslems. Before there is even evidence about who is responsible, I am seeing people advocating turning entire countries into radioactive waste. "Kill them all and let God sort them out," seems to be the prevalent opinion. This would make us no better than the ones who massacred all those helpless souls. In fact, it would make us worse. The fanatics of the Moslem world claim that WE are the barbarians, that WE are the ones who slaughter women and children in order to prove a point, that WE are the ones who brought this on ourselves. So in the coming days, ask yourself: are you going to live down to that estimation? Are you going to prove that you are just as ignorant, just as barbaric, just as self-centered as they claim you are? Or, when you hear someone spouting off, venting his or her rage, against perfectly innocent people of good will, are you going to do the right, the brave, the AMERICAN thing? Are you going to stand up to the bigots? Are you going to come to the defense of those of good will, the Moslems and those of Middle Eastern lineage in this country who had NOTHING to do with this atrocity? Are you willing to be called a traitor and worse, in order to defend them and the principles of justice and tolerance that are what is best about this country? The right thing, the brave thing, the hardest thing to be done is to wait---wait until there is proof, wait until we KNOW who is responsible for this. Then, when we know, only then can we allow our rage free rein, against the appropriate target. If you must do something, do something positive. Stand up for tolerance, stand against the bigots, stand up for reason and justice. Raise money for the families of the victims. Give blood. There are people who lost, not family, but homes and possessions. Find ways to help them. Be there to comfort those who have lost someone---be there for your local police and firemen. Bake a cake or make a casserole and take it to the fire station. Hundreds of firemen lost their lives in this tragedy, and firemen everywhere call each other brother and sister---the men and women of YOUR fire companies feel this loss as surely as one of blood. And because they are who and what they are, their feeling of helpless frustration, of being ineffective, is exponentially worse than it is for any of us. Be there for them. But above all, extend the hand of American brotherhood to those who don't look like 'us', who don't worship like 'us,' who have strange accents and strange clothing, and customs we don't quite understand, but who, nevertheless, are as appalled by all of this as any of 'us.' They came here because we are supposed to be tolerant, accepting, generous. Don't prove that our enemies are right about us. Misty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:43:17 -0500 From: "Rachel Hawkins" To: Subject: Re: OT: Prayers Message-ID: <000c01c13c94$b9402660$0100a8c0-+AT+-hawkinsr> Just thought I might add a quick note. Even if you don't get a chance to donate blood this week, the shelf life of blood is only 42 days, so they'll need people to donate well after this week too. Rachel _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:53:15 EDT From: Paustinnew-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT : World Events. Message-ID: <11d.478e989.28d2a0eb-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 9/13/01 1:01:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Lorna-+AT+-shadowydreamer.com writes: << Are you a member of the military? Or will you be an arm-chair warrior like so many were during the Gulf War? Will you be the one dropping bombs on these people or on the ground shooting bullets into people? Remember Vietnam, women, children, farmers and innocents were killed because they couldn't tell good from bad. You want to call war, you are going to kill people who had nothing to do with the deaths of the people of your nation. >> As a member of the American military, I don't plan on murdering anyone who's innocent. I hope that our leaders have enough sense to determine who is innocent and who is guilty and act accordingly. It's up to all of us in the world to demand this of them. Otherwise, we would be in danger of slipping to the same level as that of the terrorists. Please turn the emotional volume down a tad. Read Misty's statement and know that most people (yes, even us military types) believe in sparing innocent people. Just wish to hell the terrorists had thought the same way. Pam, who goes by Map ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:21:19 -0700 From: "Lorna Appleby" To: Subject: Re: OT : World Events. Message-ID: <00cb01c13ccc$5255e380$f201a8c0-+AT+-backtalk.org> >As a member of the American military, I don't plan on murdering anyone who's >innocent. I hope that our leaders have enough sense to determine who is >innocent and who is guilty and act accordingly. It's up to all of us in the >world to demand this of them. Otherwise, we would be in danger of slipping to >the same level as that of the terrorists. I don't think any member of any military ever plans to murder the innocent. But talk to veterens on Vietnam and the Gulf War. However, I'm not saying that the military will go forth with intentions, I'm saying the people calling for the blood of innocent people should think about what they were asking for. That's what my entire message was about. >Please turn the emotional volume down a tad. Read Misty's statement and know >that most people (yes, even us military types) believe in sparing innocent >people. Just wish to hell the terrorists had thought the same way. My email was in response to the person who posted about how the American Military should go invade the countries responsible and show them the might of the American machine. I, personally, don't think 99% of the military want to go out and kill people, all the people I know in various militaries signed up to defend their country, not attack otehrs. Yes, they realize (and so do I) that sometimes you have to attack to defend, but I don't think any of you want to go out and harm men, women, and children who had *nothing* to do with the attack of the WTC other than live in the wrong country. Personally, I think my questioning the motivations of the person(s) demanding such action was on the same level of emotion as their's. Yes, my was more gruesome, but that's why I put the warning at the top of it. I'm not apologetic. As I've said several times already, I don't believe innocent people should pay for the crimes of their leaders. I believe the guilty should be punished, but I don't think any countries should be carpet bombed, nuked or whatever other drastic actions some of the mood blood thirsty are asking for. I'm sorry if you felt I was attacking you, Map, or any of your military brethren. I was poking at those who are screaming for war against a country instead of demanding justice against those responsible for the thousands of deaths of innocents on American soil and meant no attack against any others, military or otherwise. -Lorna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:06:06 +0000 From: "Morrigan Moon" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Petition Alert from Clair Message-ID: >From: Paustinnew-+AT+-aol.com > >Agreed that we should not target innocent people. I just have an issue with >someone who thinks that "peace at any price" is a legitimate course of >action. No one wants war, but the idea of letting a terrorist dictate to me >where I can go and how I live my life is anathema. Terrorists are the scum >of the galaxy, to my way of thinking. Cowardly attacks on innocent people >are not acceptable by any side of a battle. >I also agree wholeheartedly that we must not target members of ethnic >groups. I agree completely. Peace at ANY price, won't lead to peace. What we need now is justice, not revenge. Keep Smiling Clair http://www.crystalgrove.co.uk _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:15:39 +0000 From: "Morrigan Moon" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: prayers Message-ID: >From: "Lorna Appleby" >I'm not eligible to give blood because I have lived in Britain in '82. (I >don't recall the actual cut off date, but I know I'm ineligible because of >that fact) Why does that mean you are not allowed to give blood? Clair http://www.crystalgrove.co.uk _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:28:08 -0400 From: "Barbara Slater" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT: Prayers Message-ID: Gave my pint yesterday, & already have Nov 8th marked in the planner to give again. It's a good habit to get into... Barbara >From: "Rachel Hawkins" >Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:08:16 +0100 (BST) > >Just thought I might add a quick note. Even if you don't >get a chance to donate blood this week, the shelf life of >blood is only 42 days, so they'll need people to donate well after this >week too. **************************************** Bookaholics of the world, UNITE! You have nothing to lose but your ignorance! **************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 04:58:45 -0700 From: "Lorna Appleby" To: Subject: Re: OT: prayers Message-ID: <000501c13d14$9b6f08b0$f201a8c0-+AT+-backtalk.org> >>I'm not eligible to give blood because I have lived in Britain in '82. (I >>don't recall the actual cut off date, but I know I'm ineligible because of >>that fact) > >Why does that mean you are not allowed to give blood? Don't know about the rules in the States, but I'm pretty sure the same rules are in place.. Anyone who lived in Britain in the last 20 years is a potential carrier of the human version of Mad Cow disease. (Do not look at me like that, I'm just quoting what I'm told by the Red Cross) So, for the sake of safety, the Canadian Red Cross doesn't accept blood from those who have lived in Britain in the last 20 years. I think it's all rather silly, but I guess they'd rather be safe than sorry. -Lorna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:08:46 -0500 From: "Howell, Tommy" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: OT: prayers Message-ID: <5BA8DB8D54C4D3119956009027DE50C603FE359B-+AT+-tdmnmail.tdmn.belo.com> Also, gay men (any man that has had sex with another man since 1977 or so) are not allowed to give blood either since HIV can remain undetected in blood for several months after the initial infection. -----Original Message----- >Why does that mean you are not allowed to give blood? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:19:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: MIST: Giving blood Message-ID: Heyla, everyone. While it's great that so many people are giving blood to help the victims of the NYC and Pentagon disasters, I don't think that it is necessary for each person to announce the fact. If you must announce that you have given blood, please observe the guidelines for the Misty List concerning snipping and off-topic posting. I.e., don't just send a one or two line announcement with a longer quoted message attached; snip everything unnecessary from the quoted message until it is at least half the length of your own message. Also, since giving blood is an off-topic subject, please combine your announcement with some valid Misty content (i.e., an ObMisty). I know that we are all affected by the death and destruction on Tuesday and will probably continue to be affected by the aftermath of recriminations, calls for retaliation, and whatever else may come. However, let's remember that this is a list with a purpose: the discussion of a writer who many admire for her work's idealism as for any other reason. Let's try to keep the Misty List a sane, happy, and generally calm haven. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:38:50 -0700 From: "Terri Carter" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: OT : World Events. Message-ID: <412001951418385060-+AT+-earthlink.net> I am confused...is there another list which people are responding to here? Or am I not getting all my listmail? I haven't seen any posts that call for wholesale destruction-just those about getting the ones responsible. I am all about a selective response-and I have said that numerous times. the people of Afghanistan have suffered horribly under the Taliban-how could anyone hold them responsible? People are in shock (i know i was) and angry (definetly)and sometimes venting verbally can help a little. But after the initial gut reaction(seek and destroy anything) the brain starts to function again and you realize that acting in such a way would make you no better than the perpetrators of these heinous acts. This does not mean that action must not be taken, but it needs to be pinpoint selective and utterly devestating TO THOSE RESPONSIBLE. As far as Muslims in this country, we are Americans, not morons, lets act with intelligence and realize that not everyone who shares a religion is the same (look at the Christians-and for that matter the Pagans)-and anybody who calls people by the derogatory names Misty quoted was probably a moron to start with. Remind me NEVER to move to Oklahoma! I do however feel that it is very important for the American Muslim communities to make it very plain that they in no way condone, approve or support these actions. After the Oklahoma bombing, didn't most Christian groups denounce the actions of the terrorists? Even right wing religious groups did so. This way there will (hopefully) be a clear demarkation between those who supported this atrocity and those who did not. I am trying to focus on what may come out of this tragedy-for instance the fact that Cuba, who has had nothing but conflict with us for the last 40 years, opened its airspace to American planes and offered landing areas if needed. Perhaps this will bring the rest of the sane world together. Gaia ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 2696 **********************************