MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 3 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Where to next for Valdemar by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 2) re: McKinley, Dean, and Goddesses by "Otavia M. Propper" 3) Re: Vanyel's children by afinney-+AT+-ozonline.com.au (Alan Finney) 4) Re: Where to next for Valdemar by afinney-+AT+-ozonline.com.au (Alan Finney) 5) New subscriber by Astatine 6) Re: McKinley, Dean, and Goddesses by marina-+AT+-singnet.com.sg (Marina S Y Chong) 7) Re: McKinley, Dean, and Goddesses by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 8) Re: Tannim's fave music choices by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 9) RE: HELP!?! by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 10) Re: Tannim's fave music choices by Mat Timmerman 11) ADMIN: nearly there by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 12) RE: HELP!?! by heb4-+AT+-cornell.edu (Heather Blatt) 13) Re: HELP!?! by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 14) RE: HELP!?! by Kris 15) RE: HELP!?! by Sunfalcon 16) by Elise Packee 17) Re: New subscriber by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 18) How do I get the Firebird catalog? by Sea Witch 19) RE: HELP!?! by Thean Yoon Fui 20) Re: address test - don't read by JimVowles-+AT+-aol.com 21) Re: ADMIN: nearly there by "Tarja Rainio" 22) Re: Tannim's fave music choices by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 11:07:11 BST From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Where to next for Valdemar Message-ID: Catherine Osborne asked: Has anyone else thought about a (relatively, I think) recent trend among fantasy writers to make each book *really* long...? I think it might be the increasing interest in fantasy books. It's been dawning on publishers that there is a market for prolonged, more complex plots. When I was a kid, fantasy was lumped in with scifi and kind of laughed at as unimportant reading material, not even part of literature; it didn't take up much room in a bookstore. No litcrit to speak of. I think one of the big reasons that changed was JRR Tolkien's *Lord of the Rings* trilogy. Here was a distinguished Oxford (and Cambridge) don, writing about a brilliantly created secondary world, with its own languages, cultures, etc. And his equally distinguished friend, another Oxford and Cambridge don, CS Lewis, not only praised it highly publicly, but also was the author of a very fine scifi trilogy (the *Ransome* trilogy) which also had Arthurian elements. To get back to Tolkien, he always felt that *LOTR* was wrongly chopped up by the publisher--he wanted more emphasis put on the "books" within the 3 volumes. And the change of attitude towards this kind of book since his writing this also points out the kind of mawkish first couple of chapters of *Fellowship of the Ring* and the uneven tone and voice of *The Hobbit*, regarded at first as a children's book. I think another milestone in this change of attitude came from Mary Stewart's *Merlin* trilogy (+ *The Wicked Day*)--when *The Crystal Cave* first came out, it was a novel...today you'll often find it on the scifi/fantasy shelves. David Eddings and Robert Jordan in particular, IMHO, are able to take advantage of this trend, because they are able to sustain more complicated plots and use a bigger canvas. (Yes, I know a lot of people have found it hard to get into Jordan's novels. I keep imagining him surrounded by walls of timelines, genalogy charts, and all sorts of aids to keep it all straight, but then I have a simpler, more straightforward mind. It's why I can't write a decent mystery to save my life.) Anne McCafferty's been around a good while, and I'll bet she's glad of the opportunity to expand the length of her books and make them fuller. It's fine with me! Partly because, I guess, of my background in all those Victorian triple-decker novels I waded through, and also because when it's a writer I like, I like a *lot* of his/her stuff to read. Haven't you regretted a favorite author's death, knowing that it means no more of a particular special character(s)? Normally I don't read romance novels, but recently one of my closest friends published her first book, which is a romance set in Scotland in 1715 (if you do like this kind of book, let me know, and I'll be glad to tell you more; it's excellent) so I wandered over to that section of the local Barnes & Noble. Aren't some of the romances getting thicker/longer too? I notice that some of the mysteries are, for example Anne Perry's. Hmmm, maybe people are really reading more. Happy thought! --Barra Jacob-McDowell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 11:07:22 BST From: "Otavia M. Propper" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: McKinley, Dean, and Goddesses Message-ID: McKinley has a new book out, uhmmm...the name eludes me, but it is a collection of short stories. If I think of the name I'll tell you. She has in fact written a book entitle _Beauty_. I love it. Otavia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 11:11:30 BST From: afinney-+AT+-ozonline.com.au (Alan Finney) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel's children Message-ID: <199505030734.RAA11474-+AT+-budapest.ozonline.com.au> >I was re-reading the Last Herald-Mage books this weekend, and >found that: Vanyel had four kids: > >Jisa >Brightstar (adopted by Moondance and what's his name, darn!) >Featherfire (Brightstar's sister) >one more, adopted by Lissa's Shaych soldiers, who's name I >didn't see mentioned anywhere. > >Anyone ever find the fourth child's name? Was it a boy or a >girl? What happened to that line of descendants? > >Iris Hi. I have joined this mailing list (my first one, actually), so bear with me. Presumably this fourth child's decendants, if he/she had any, would be Valdemarans. It would be very interesting if a decendant of this person was someone we knew, for example Skif or Dirk, etc. I don't think Misty ever mentioned the name of this fourth child, and perhaps it was only created to emphasise Vanyel's role as a 'stud', because here was a child he would never see, given to people he didn't really know and never saw again...and he didn't even know the child's name! Zhai'helleva, Tim (Brightsun) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 11:11:43 BST From: afinney-+AT+-ozonline.com.au (Alan Finney) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Where to next for Valdemar Message-ID: <199505030734.RAA11480-+AT+-budapest.ozonline.com.au> >Does anybody have an idea/opinion on where the Valdemar series will head >next? The Gryphon storyline is giving us a history of the mage wars and >the Storm trilogy is dealing with magic coming back and the Eastern Empire. > >What then? Hi, I'm completly new to this, but I may as well throw in my $0.02. I frequent the SFLIT forum on Compuserve, and it is believed over there that the next trilogy will involve Iftel, because of all the references being made (unless Iftel is developed in Storm Rising and Storm Breaking, which is possible) about the shield, the powerful god, the closed-mouthed traders, the absent ambassador rooms etc. Alternatively, I have noticed a pattern in Valdemar books like this: Time------------------------> VaH HoV I I I--------------------I Mage Wars I I TLHM I--BTS I I I I I I I I I I I------------------------------------I I I I I-- ----Mage Winds I-----------------------------------------------------------------------I I------------------Mage Storms This may all look confusing, but what I am trying to convey is that each book 'combines' with a book of earlier time to make the chronologically next book. By The Sword was kinda like a mixture of HoV and VaH, while Mage Winds is like a mixture of BTS and TLHM, and Mage Storms seems to be a mixture of Mage Winds and Mage Wars. See what I mean? If not, don't worry. Anyway, if Mercedes Lackey writes another history, the books chronologically after Mage Storms must be connected to that history in some way. Forgive my ramblings.... Zhai'helleva, Brightsun (Tim) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 95 11:03:22 +0100 From: Astatine To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: New subscriber Message-ID: <9505031004.AA26875-+AT+-herald.co.uk> Hi folks, Just to let you folks know that I'm a new subscriber. Thanks, Colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 18:54:48 +0800 From: marina-+AT+-singnet.com.sg (Marina S Y Chong) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: McKinley, Dean, and Goddesses Message-ID: <199505031054.SAA08174-+AT+-merlion.singnet.com.sg> [chomp] > >BTW, question: I know Mercedes Lackey collaborated on _The Dragonsbane_ >with Andre Norton -- does anyone have any idea if there are plans for a >sequel? It certainly seemed like one was possible. > >Going back to lurking, > thia > >Cynthia E. Odiorne codiorne-+AT+-wellesley.edu >Meddle not in the affairs of bards, FDC Walkaround Mrs. Potts >for your name is silly and scans to 'Greensleeves' FDC Luke Skywalker >Opinions by CEO SCA Judith Hosford > > ML and Andre Norton collaborated on a book called "The Elvenbane". A sequel, called "Elvenblood" is planned. regards -- #=======================#=======================================# # Marina S Y Chong # "Think of it as evolution in action." # # marina-+AT+-singnet.com.sg # -- Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle # # # OATH OF FEALTY # #=======================#=======================================# ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 11:57:42 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: McKinley, Dean, and Goddesses Message-ID: <9505031057.AA02802-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > ML and Andre Norton collaborated on a book called "The Elvenbane". > A sequel, called "Elvenblood" is planned. > I believe it's out in June in the UK. If they reprint "Elvenbane", so much the better ... Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 12:20:35 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tannim's fave music choices Message-ID: <9505031220.AA11954-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > While I'm on the subject of music, what do you think should be my first > Firebird filk purchase? I'm leaning towards the Vanyel tape, but want some > more input first. Thanks in advance for your help! I'd put the Vanyel CD/tape first, and _Oathbound_ second - I really like the shin'a'in songs on that, but the Vanyel one edges it out. -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 6:52:35 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Cc: mujat12-+AT+-uxa.ecn.bgu.edu Subject: RE: HELP!?! Message-ID: <950503065235.22606003-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> >I have to write a short paper for my religion class, and I want to use a >quote from _Storm Warning_, but I don't have my copy here at school with >me. You know the part where Ulrich and Karal are with An'desha, and >Ulrich is trying to help An'desha understand some things about himself. >Somewhere in that part, Ulrich quotes from an old text, something like >"Good done in the name of Evil is still Good, Evil done in the name of >Good is still Evil...(something I don't remember)...and dispense with the >Naming of Names.." Could someone copy that whole quote down for me, and >also tell me what page it is on? I need this by Weds night, because the >paper is due Thursday morning. Thanx! > Jen Tisler (Jarana) > Desperately hoping that someone gets this, you know how > the list has been lately.... Okay here's what I found: "It is a man's deeds that define him," he [Ulrich] said earnestly. "As I believe Karal has told you - Vkandis Himself has passes that stricture to us, that a good deed done in the name of the Dark is still done for the Light, but an evil done in the name of the Light is still quite evil, and a sould could be condemned to Darkness for it." That's it. Hope it helps. I would say that I've heard this expressed slightly better, but since I don't remember where, I won't try and quote it directly. More along the lines of (as spoken by (a) God): "Know that evil done in the My Name is still evil, but good done in the name of Evil is done in My Name" or something to that effect. I know it says the same thing, but for some reason I like it better that way. Go figure. Iris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 1995 11:34:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tannim's fave music choices Message-ID: <01HQ2CIX4ND499KN72-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> > > > While I'm on the subject of music, what do you think should be my first > > Firebird filk purchase? I'm leaning towards the Vanyel tape, but want some > > more input first. Thanks in advance for your help! > > > I'd put the Vanyel CD/tape first, and _Oathbound_ second - I really like the > shin'a'in songs on that, but the Vanyel one edges it out. So how is the one from the Heralds of Valdemar trilogy ( I think it's called _Heralds, Harpers, & Havok) ? Mat T. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 16:59:10 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey Subject: ADMIN: nearly there Message-ID: <9505031559.AA08488-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Apart from a few dud addresses which I'm still trying to track down, I think we're just about there. Phew, what a relief. You may now cheer and open the bottle of sparkling-beverage-of-your-choice to celebrate our new home. :) Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 12:15:32 -0400 From: heb4-+AT+-cornell.edu (Heather Blatt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: HELP!?! Message-ID: >>I have to write a short paper for my religion class, and I want to use a >>quote from _Storm Warning_, but I don't have my copy here at school with >>me. You know the part where Ulrich and Karal are with An'desha, and >>Ulrich is trying to help An'desha understand some things about himself. >>Somewhere in that part, Ulrich quotes from an old text, something like >>"Good done in the name of Evil is still Good, Evil done in the name of >>Good is still Evil...(something I don't remember)...and dispense with the >>Naming of Names.." Could someone copy that whole quote down for me, and >>also tell me what page it is on? I need this by Weds night, because the >>paper is due Thursday morning. Thanx! > >> Jen Tisler (Jarana) >> Desperately hoping that someone gets this, you know how >> the list has been lately.... > > >That's it. Hope it helps. I would say that I've heard this expressed >slightly better, but since I don't remember where, I won't try and >quote it directly. More along the lines of (as spoken by (a) God): >"Know that evil done in the My Name is still evil, but good done >in the name of Evil is done in My Name" or something to that >effect. I know it says the same thing, but for some reason I like >it better that way. Go figure. > >Iris The quote both of you seem to be thinking of--or at least, that's where I first read a very close copy of this--is in one of C.S. Lewis' Narnia books--in _The Last Battle_ I believe, after everything has passed through the Door. Aslan says this to a man from Tashban, E-something-or-other. Elizabeth. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 12:38:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: HELP!?! Message-ID: Iris, in providing the quotation that Jen needs, remarked that she'd heard it expressed otherwise, but couldnt' remember where. If you've ever read *The Last Battle*, the last Chronicle of Narnia book by CS Lewis, it is paraphrased there too, by Aslan to the young soldier who alone of his group was brave enough to enter the stable. I'm at work, so I can't look up the exact wording. --Barra Jacob-McDowell Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb Harpers have pluck--but don't get strung out.--Barra the Bard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 14:31:13 -0230 From: Kris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: HELP!?! Message-ID: On Wed, 3 May 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: > Okay here's what I found: > > "It is a man's deeds that define him," he [Ulrich] said earnestly. > "As I believe Karal has told you - Vkandis Himself has passes that > stricture to us, that a good deed done in the name of the Dark is > still done for the Light, but an evil done in the name of the Light > is still quite evil, and a sould could be condemned to Darkness for > it." > > That's it. Hope it helps. I would say that I've heard this expressed > slightly better, but since I don't remember where, I won't try and > quote it directly. More along the lines of (as spoken by (a) God): > "Know that evil done in the My Name is still evil, but good done > in the name of Evil is done in My Name" or something to that > effect. I know it says the same thing, but for some reason I like > it better that way. Go figure. That sounds like something Aslan said in "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe". If you've read that, it might be what you're thinking of. (Actually, it also might be in C.S. Lewis' Cosmic Trilogy - he expresses that believe a fair amount!) Kris ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Krista Babstock "May the roads rise with you, Electrical Engineering And the wind be always at your back krista-+AT+-engr.mun.ca And the Good Lord hold you http://www.engr.mun.ca/~krista/ In the hollow of His hand." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 13:27:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Sunfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: HELP!?! Message-ID: > Okay here's what I found: > > "It is a man's deeds that define him," he [Ulrich] said earnestly. > "As I believe Karal has told you - Vkandis Himself has passes that > stricture to us, that a good deed done in the name of the Dark is > still done for the Light, but an evil done in the name of the Light > is still quite evil, and a sould could be condemned to Darkness for > it." > > That's it. Hope it helps. I would say that I've heard this expressed > slightly better, but since I don't remember where, I won't try and > quote it directly. More along the lines of (as spoken by (a) God): > "Know that evil done in the My Name is still evil, but good done > in the name of Evil is done in My Name" or something to that > effect. I know it says the same thing, but for some reason I like > it better that way. Go figure. > > Iris > --Hey all, how are ye? I'm almost positive that the re-phrasing mentioned above is in one of two places: either in Tarma's and Roald's meeting with the Star-Eyed in (Oathbreakers? Oathbound?), or when Gwena has a private chat with Treyvan and Darkwind shortly after their meeting (everyone's trying to nerve themselves up to trust everyone else, and I distinctly remember Gwena stamping her hoof in irritation and saying. . ..). If it's not there, I'm out of suggestions. I was feeling reticent during the round of introductions, so I'll offer a (very) belated one now. I'm Brad Greenberg, a second year student at Harvard University. I'm majoring in English, unlike what appears to be the vast majority of list members. Then again, when I look closely at a lot of the fiction and poetry being written nowadays, Science begins to look very attractive. Hmm. . . What else? My hobbies include reading (High Fantasy/Science Fiction/Romantic Poetry), writing of same (cheap publicity stunt: finger me at brgreenb-+AT+-fas.harvard.edu for a sample), and surfing the Internet. Clear skies, The Wordsmith of Irymar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 16:30:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Elise Packee To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Message-ID: just got the new addy... here is something i tried to send on sunday... 1). the reason why it seems "everybody is lifebonded" is that it seems lifebonded couples lead extrodinary lives, and they are the type of lives that people write about. that is my opinion, but now i will shut up... Okay the reason I wrote this message is to inquire...enquire....ask...if anyone on this list is currently living in Missoula, MT. Going to school, raising sheep, working a Mcdonalds (ick)...whatever. I am going to be transferring to the University next fall, and would like to know a few people (or even a native ameoba) who would like to share a little about what is up in MT. Please e-mail me at (epackee-+AT+-calvin.linfield.edu) ELise ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 19:42:21 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: New subscriber Message-ID: <950503194209_105812624-+AT+-aol.com> Hi Colin! Welcome to a rather chatty, VERY nice group of folk! Want some virtual tea and cookies? I've just finished boiling the water! Welcome to the mailing list! Anne annes3832-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 21:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Sea Witch To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: How do I get the Firebird catalog? Message-ID: I have seen this mentioned on the list several times, but I have not seen anyone mention how to go about getting the catalog to begin with. I haven't gotten inserts in any of ML's books... can someone give me an address or something? Thanks!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Melyssa Childs | | FDC Slimearound Ursula **** VP Bad Guys Coalition | | First Chair Clarinet - FDC Orchestra **** Lyric Soprano - FDC Chorus | | mlchilds-+AT+-orion.naz.edu | |----------------------------------------------------------------------| | RAD Host(ess): If you have any questions just e-mail me! :-) | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 14:05:06 +0800 From: Thean Yoon Fui To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: HELP!?! Message-ID: Hi All, My first post here. (Should I be excited?) So please excuse me if I make any mistakes. On Wed, 3 May 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: > "It is a man's deeds that define him," he [Ulrich] said earnestly. > "As I believe Karal has told you - Vkandis Himself has passes that > stricture to us, that a good deed done in the name of the Dark is > still done for the Light, but an evil done in the name of the Light > is still quite evil, and a sould could be condemned to Darkness for > it." I think Gwena (Elspeth's Companion) said something similar to Darkwind in Wind of Fate. It is near the end of the book, where she asked Darkwind and the gryphons for their help. Since I don't have the book with me now, I won't quote it. Cheers, Yoon Fui. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Thean Yoon Fui e-mail: STHEANYF-+AT+-cc.curtin.edu.au Electrical Engineering, Curtin University of Technology, Perth, Western Australia, Australia. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 02:37:50 -0400 From: JimVowles-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: address test - don't read Message-ID: <950503224655_106077343-+AT+-aol.com> I would dearly love to continue with this mailing list, but I'm on through AOL and I can't afford THAT, much less the extra time online to get this mail... Please Cancel My Subscription to this mailing list (for now). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 10:31:13 EET DST From: "Tarja Rainio" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ADMIN: nearly there Message-ID: <40115607319-+AT+-katk.helsinki.fi> On Wed, 3 May 1995 Mel wrote: >Apart from a few dud addresses which I'm still trying to track down, I >think we're just about there. Phew, what a relief. You may now cheer and >open the bottle of sparkling-beverage-of-your-choice to celebrate our >new home. :) Consider a bottle of sparkling wine opened :). Tarja ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 08:54:34 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tannim's fave music choices Message-ID: <9505040854.AA24769-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > > So how is the one from the Heralds of Valdemar trilogy ( I think it's > called _Heralds, Harpers, & Havok) ? > All the tapes are pretty good; _Shadowstalker_ and _Oathbound_ are my personal favourites, but the rest (including HH&H) are fairly close. _By The Sword_ is a non-Misty-written one, I think - a nice sound FX swordfight on the front, but the songs have a different feel - Misty's tend to be more structured, and go somewhere, these seem (to me anyway) to be more fade in/ romp along/fade out. The only one where Misty herself sings is _Mercedes Lackey Live_. I liked the non-valdemar songs, too - though (as always) it helps if you've read the works they're based around. -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 3 *******************************