MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 4 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Tannim's fave music choices by CptHawk-+AT+-aol.com 2) Everybody cross your fingers for me.... by "Aphrael" 3) Re: Everybody cross your fingers for me.... by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 4) Test message. by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 5) Another test by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 6) "Tiger Burning "Bright" due out September by Bruce Hart Tamra Hart 7) Re: Tannim's fave music choices by Jennifer A Tisler 8) Re: Everybody cross your fingers for me.... by Jennifer A Tisler 9) Re: english majors... by "Jay Morrison" 10) Re: english majors... by The Lemming 11) Re: english majors... by j hewitt 12) Re: english majors... by Jean Morrill 13) Re: english majors... by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 14) Religion in ML by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 15) Jennie Talldeer / Di Tregarde by "Jean Valentine-Gaddis" 16) good and evil in the god's name by Jassenta-+AT+-aol.com 17) Re: Test message. by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 18) Re: How do I get the Firebird catalog? by TSRadon-+AT+-aol.com 19) Re: New subscriber by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 20) Re: No Subject by DATIN4-+AT+-aol.com 21) Re: english majors... by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 22) Re: Jennie Talldeer / Di Tregarde by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 23) Re: Jennie Talldeer / Di Tregarde by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 10:03:43 -0400 From: CptHawk-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tannim's fave music choices Message-ID: <950504100156_106517792-+AT+-aol.com> >While I'm on the subject of music, what do you think should be my first >Firebird filk purchase? I'm leaning towards the Vanyel tape, but want some >more input first. Thanks in advance for your help! Joan, If you haven't heard her before, Meg Davis is probably the best-produced filker out there. She did one called "By the Sword" (yes, for the ML book) & though it has a few things on it that don't really track with the book, the music and production is excellent. I bought the CD on that one. Most other filk is so poorly produced, it isn't really worth getting the CD, but that one is a keeper. She also has a few other that are filk classics -- "Captain Jack and the Mermaid" & "Swing the Cat" are the two I remember off-hand. She also has a collection of traditional stuff called "The Claddah Walk" which is really nice. I HIGHLY recommend her! All of the stuff written by Misty is amazing, though sometimes the recording quality leaves something to be desired. If you're a perfectionist (& a musician) like me, you'll get the Misty tapes, learn all the songs & play them yourself rather than listen to the tapes! Well, it works for me! Go figure. BTW, there are some filk parodies of some of Misty's songs (such as "Threes") that are pretty funny. I may be able to find them, given a little time... Glad to be a new subscriber, Cris. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 11:34:22 EST From: "Aphrael" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Everybody cross your fingers for me.... Message-ID: Yesterday marked week two for my fourth story submitted to Marion Zimmer Bradley for S&S XIII! Has anyone else here ever submitted stories to Mrs. Bradley? Lyn /> Lynore M. Belzer /< 716/379-3060 lbelzer-+AT+-sbu.edu *}XXXXX(*):::<=======================- \< St. Bonaventure University \> Allegany, New York; USA "...My dear, dear Friend...in thy voice I catch [t]he language of my former heart, and read [m]y former pleasures in the shooting lights [o]f thy wild eyes...." - William Wordsworth, from "Lines composed a few miles above Tintern Abbey" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 16:42:44 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Everybody cross your fingers for me.... Message-ID: <9505041542.AA03198-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > Yesterday marked week two for my fourth story submitted to Marion > Zimmer Bradley for S&S XIII! > Good grief, are they up to that many? I must buy them more often. > Has anyone else here ever submitted stories to Mrs. Bradley? > No, but I'll be very interested to hear how you get on. I will get back to writing sometime ... in my CopiousFreeTime(TM).... Mel. (feeling a little irrelevant today) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 17:04:00 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey Subject: Test message. Message-ID: <9505041604.AA00351-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Sorry folks, I need to send out a couple of test messages. -- Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 17:16:00 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey Subject: Another test Message-ID: <9505041616.AA00252-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Only one more after this, honest. -- M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 11:01:18 -0700 From: Bruce Hart Tamra Hart To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: "Tiger Burning "Bright" due out September Message-ID: <199505041801.LAA10771-+AT+-shell1.best.com> Heya fellow listers! Good news! I just got the new issue of _Locus: The magazine of the Science Fiction Field_ and there's an advertisement from Avon (AvoNova) for "Tiger Burning Bright" by Andre Norton, Marion Zimmer Bradley, and Mercedes Lackey. "Coming in September 1995" it says. I hadn't heard of this book before -- anyone out there know this one was coming? The blurb says: "This epic collaboration from three of the brightest lights in fantasy shows powerful women using magic, deception and misdirection to fight an all-conquering Emperor." The tiny illustration of the cover shows three women, one on a throne, one in fancy dress, and one in pants holding a sword. Looks like this could be another "Trillium" type of story, where each person gets one of the three characters to tell the story of. I wonder which one of the character's is Misty's? I wonder if this is a new world we're talking about (probably) and if the Emperor bears any resemblance to a certain evil Emperor/Empire in a certain series of books written by someone who's initials are ML? Gaaah...my list of "books I must own" is getting far too long. I think I'm going to have to learn to speed read -- or at the very least to speed-earn the money I need to buy them all! --Tamra the book addict (who just bought 6 used paperbacks and can't decide which one to read first!) hart-+AT+-best.com http://www.best.com/~hart/ Hart Consulting: World Wide Web Design Services Technical Writing and Editing Mtn. View, CA 415-966-8924 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 14:02:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Jennifer A Tisler To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tannim's fave music choices Message-ID: On Thu, 4 May 1995, Jerry Cullingford wrote: > The only one where Misty herself sings is _Mercedes Lackey Live_. I > liked the non-valdemar songs, too - though (as always) it > helps if you've read the works they're based around. Misty also sings in _Heralds, Harpers, & Havoc_. She sings the part of Queen Selenay in "Her Father's Eyes" and "Musings" (I think that's what it's called, anyway). Jen Tisler (Jarana) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 14:04:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Jennifer A Tisler To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Everybody cross your fingers for me.... Message-ID: On Thu, 4 May 1995, Aphrael wrote: > Yesterday marked week two for my fourth story submitted to Marion > Zimmer Bradley for S&S XIII! > > Has anyone else here ever submitted stories to Mrs. Bradley? > > Lyn I haven't, and probably never will, but I wish you the best of luck with yours. Jen Tisler (Jarana) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 15:41:17 EDT From: "Jay Morrison" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: english majors... Message-ID: <28CE2F14FD1-+AT+-pub.sbu.edu> Hello to Brad Greenberg from Harvard! I hate to admit it, but ... I was an English major, too. (GASP!) I say "was" because I've switched my major to journalism since my freshman year - I'm a junior now. Then I was going to minor in it ... but it looks like I'm gonna end up with a minor in political science. Quite a jump, I know... One thing I never liked about English professors ... every one I've ever had has looked down on fantasy and science fiction, believing it has no literary value whatsoever. I admit, some doesn't, but you can't tell me that all fantasy literature (from Tolkein and the Lord of the Rings right up through Misty and many other excellent contemporary writers) is, as one professor put it "escapist garbage". Of course, I didn't really care what that particular indivual thought of what I read ... has any one else had that quite of experience? High-and-mighty jerk ... see, now I'm getting furious again at something that happened two years ago. May you all escape snooty English professors... Jill Morrison (morrisjm-+AT+-sbu.edu) ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - The Bard \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 14:03:13 -0700 (PDT) From: The Lemming To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: english majors... Message-ID: <199505042103.OAA25306-+AT+-sdcc13.ucsd.edu> > One thing I never liked about English professors ... every one > I've ever had has looked down on fantasy and science fiction, > believing it has no literary value whatsoever. I admit, some > doesn't, but you can't tell me that all fantasy literature (from > Tolkein and the Lord of the Rings right up through Misty and many > other excellent contemporary writers) is, as one professor put > it "escapist garbage". Actually, I've had the reverse experience...there's a professor at my university that teaches classes in fantasy and science fiction, and even goes to cons. I don't always agree with his tastes (he called _Mists of Avalon_ boring, and then praised _Mythago Wood_ for it's Jungian elements...), but at least he's actually reading the stuff, instead of dismissing it out of hand. > > Jill Morrison > (morrisjm-+AT+-sbu.edu) > ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are > dreamt of in your philosophy." > - The Bard > \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > -Jeanne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 16:04:21 -0500 (CDT) From: j hewitt To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: english majors... Message-ID: On Thu, 4 May 1995, Jay Morrison wrote: > One thing I never liked about English professors ... every one > I've ever had has looked down on fantasy and science fiction, > believing it has no literary value whatsoever. I admit, some > doesn't, but you can't tell me that all fantasy literature (from > Tolkein and the Lord of the Rings right up through Misty and many > other excellent contemporary writers) is, as one professor put > it "escapist garbage". ahhh...while a librarian with a library degree, i also have used my graduate degree in english to teach a few english classes -- please don't tar us all with the same brush *grin* > May you all escape snooty English professors... maybe better -- "may you all find the good english professors" j hewitt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 14:11:24 -0700 From: Jean Morrill To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: english majors... Message-ID: <199505042111.OAA07374-+AT+-cataract.hwr.arizona.edu> > One thing I never liked about English professors ... every one > I've ever had has looked down on fantasy and science fiction, > believing it has no literary value whatsoever. I admit, some > doesn't, but you can't tell me that all fantasy literature (from > Tolkein and the Lord of the Rings right up through Misty and many > other excellent contemporary writers) is, as one professor put > it "escapist garbage". > > May you all escape snooty English professors... > > Jill Morrison Simon Hawke (author of "The Wizard of 4th Street" and its numerous sequels as well as some other books, Reluctant Sorcerer, I_______ Adept, and a couple of Star Trek novels) teaches in the English department at one of the Arizona colleges. So some English teachers know the benefits of fantasy/sci-fi. Jean in Tucson, which is not near Kingman. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 17:45:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: english majors... Message-ID: English major here (got both my degrees in it, the second one 20 yrs ago, my GOD, it doesn't feel that long!)... now working as staff person in a campus library, after many varied jobs in several fields, and lemme tell you, Jill, snooty profs aren't just in the English dept., and snooty people aren't all professors, either! Alas, though, you are right: many English departments refuse to regard scifi/fantasy and mystery fiction as "real" literature. This is unfortunate, and hopefully will change. Of course, about 100 yrs. ago, fiction wasn't considered important literature, either, in most colleges unless it was at least a few centuries old and preferably in a dead language or an older version of a vernacular one, and in Milton's time (and in a few of the more rarefied English public schools back in Churchill's time) all curriculum was taught in very old, non-native languages. (Students in Milton's time were punished if caught speaking anything other than Hebrew on school grounds outside of class) There are fashions in classes too. I knew a librarian when I was an undergraduate who said to me, "All my teenage son talks about is Tolkien. I thought if I read *The Lord of the Rings*, we'd at least have one thing to talk about--but I can't get into it!" I asked her why, and sure enough, at the bottom of the problem was that nasty idea that scifi/fantasy was "childish" and she was kind of embarrassed to be even thinking of reading any (the What Will Other People Think syndrome that's so crippling). I knew that she'd gotten a lot personally out of some of C.S. Lewis' apologetics, and quoted her his line about one of the joys of being an adult is the freedom to read whatever one wants: fairytales, theology, novels, whatever. Then I suggested that she try to forget the associations *she* had with words like "dwarves" and "elves" and think of the books as partly describing how different peoples interacted. A while later she told me with great relief how much she had enjoyed them, and discussing them with her son--and the pleasure he got out of recommending books for her. "They weren't cutesy and silly at all, most of the time," she remarked. There is, unfortunately, lots of crummy writing out there (how did it get published? WHY did someone agree to print some of this dreck?)--but there is, thank God, more and more good stuff. --Barra, hoping to convert an elderly neighbor into trying some of ML. Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb Harpers have pluck--but don't get strung out.--Barra the Bard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 18:23:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Religion in ML Message-ID: <4jeJDm200iVG8_VsZR-+AT+-andrew.cmu.edu> Hmmm, that was a broader heading than I had in mind. Let me amend that: Karal's religion in Valdemar. I finally got started reading *Storm Warning* last night. So here's Karal, 16, novice priest of Vkandis Sunlord, secretary to Ulrich the Karsite envoy to Selaney's court. He tells someone that he hasn't taken any vows yet. {Spoiler coming....} Spoiler: Ulrich is assassinated by an agent for the Emperor. Karal grieves over the death of his mentor--okay, that's good, that's right, no problem. He's uncertain that he can take Ulrich's place. That rings true too. But this is a person who has a vocation (judging from a conversation with Ulrich right before that) for the priesthood --after all, Vkandes has sent a Firecat to guide him, far from a common occurance-- and there is absolutely NO mention of Karal's doing any kind of last rites for Ulrich, not even a customary prayer for the dying/dead. Tears, yes. No ritualized phrases, and in a religion as old as his, I find it hard to believe that such would not exist, would not naturally spring to his lips at this time. I know that there are some splinter temples in Valdemar; does a priest of one of those come to perform the rites that Karal is not ordained to do? What happens to Ulrich's body? He is an important envoy; the court would surely pay some respect to his remains--they would not ignore it. Is his body, along with news of what has occurred, sent back to Sunhame? Considering how ML treated the deaths of Heralds in other books, I am really surprised at the lack thereof in this instance. Besides, I'm curious! The less I know, the more curious I am....and I'm one of these readers who often gets attached to secondary characters, so I wind up spending lots of time wondering about them. Theories invited! (I'm also wondering who will continue Karal's religious training--the Firecat? The Patriarch, doing a little ecumenical teaching.discussion? A new character, who might not approve of some of Karal's friends, providing more complications?) Don't you wish we didn't have to wait between books in a series?! Have a nice weekend, everybody, and please keep positive thoughts going: Saturday is the PA Storytelling Conference, where I am in charge of an Audio Room (praying that no one "accidentally" walks off with any of the tapes we are being loaned) and an ethnic--sorry, multicultural--folktale swap session. No time to prep for the swap session, just winging it, and more worried about the Audio Room. And a funeral. --Barra ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 19:28:31 CST From: "Jean Valentine-Gaddis" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Jennie Talldeer / Di Tregarde Message-ID: <94FC883601-+AT+-graduate.grad.ksu.edu> Hi everyone, (De-lerking for the first time in a long time) I just read Sacred Ground, and although I know this is probably an old topic, I am looking for opinions. Does anyone else think that Jennie Talldeer / Kestral- hunts-alone is an updated version of Di Tregarde ? Don't get me wrong, I think both characters are great, but they seem SO similar, and we haven't gotten any new Di stories in awhile. I hope she doesn't retire Di for Jennie. But, Jennie seems so much more complex and detailed to me, maby because we are introduced to her family and friends, while Di's adventures seem very encapsulated. Maby it's just me. Hope this wasn't so long ago that nobody remembers. Jean ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 20:37:57 -0400 From: Jassenta-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: good and evil in the god's name Message-ID: <950504203747_107185280-+AT+-aol.com> >Okay here's what I found: >"It is a man's deeds that define him," he [Ulrich] said earnestly. >"As I believe Karal has told you - Vkandis Himself has passes that >stricture to us, that a good deed done in the name of the Dark is >still done for the Light, but an evil done in the name of the Light >is still quite evil, and a sould could be condemned to Darkness for >it." >That's it. Hope it helps. I would say that I've heard this expressed >slightly better, but since I don't remember where, I won't try and >quote it directly. More along the lines of (as spoken by (a) God): >"Know that evil done in the My Name is still evil, but good done >in the name of Evil is done in My Name" or something to that >effect. I know it says the same thing, but for some reason I like >it better that way. Go figure. >Iris I just thought I'd point out that this is not a new thought; in C.S. Lewis' _Chronicles of Narnia_ (specifically, _The Last Battle_), Aslan tells a young warrior that all the good he did in Tash's name was really for Aslan, and all the evil that folk did for Aslan was really for Tash. I give the long quote here in Emeth's more biblical language: " 'But the Glorious One bent down his golden head and touched my forehead with his tongue and said, "Son, thou are welcome." But I said, "Alas, Lord, I am no son of Thine but the servant of Tash." He answered, "Child, asll the service thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me." Then by reason of my great desire for wisdom and understanding, I overcame my fear and questioned the Glorious One and said, "Lord, is it than true...that thou and Tash are one?" The Lion...said, "It is false. Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites, I take to me the services which thou hast done to him, for I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath's sake, it is by me that he had truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted." ' " This is supposing one believes in absolute evil and absolute good, but it can be seen, basically, that like calls to like, and also that all, even the gods, get what they deserve. WttW, Jassenta P.S. Whoops, just have seen that everyone else caught it too! Anyway, here it is for those who are interested in the wording. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 21:05:25 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Test message. Message-ID: <950504210523_107221705-+AT+-aol.com> this is a test, this is ONLY a test . . . in the event of an actual message, a lot of replies would have occurred . . a rather unrepentant anne . . . . . . . annes3832-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 22:02:09 -0400 From: TSRadon-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: How do I get the Firebird catalog? Message-ID: <950504215959_107294324-+AT+-aol.com> How's a 'bout a phone number? Call 1-800-752-0494 <>Ask for a catalog...... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 22:17:56 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: New subscriber Message-ID: <950504220616_107302085-+AT+-aol.com> On 5/3/95 AnneS3832 wrote: > Want some virtual tea >and cookies? I've just finished boiling the water! May I have cream and sugar? Clear Skies Matt J ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 00:29:40 -0400 From: DATIN4-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: No Subject Message-ID: <950503234104_106152016-+AT+-aol.com> I think there is definitely a circular thing going on in Misty's books. I would compare it to Eddings's Mallorean and Belgariad series-- A correction of a mistake of monumental proportions so that all may continue (or be finished?) IMO Clear skies all, Ellie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 09:37:11 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: english majors... Message-ID: <9505050837.AA17720-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Jill said: > One thing I never liked about English professors ... every one > I've ever had has looked down on fantasy and science fiction, > believing it has no literary value whatsoever. If I ever suddenly find myself with nothing to do some year, and loads of money (say, if I won the National Lottery :)) I'd consider taking the MA in science fiction which is offered at Liverpool University. I don't know offhand whether it includes fantasy or not. I doubt they'd take me, though, since I wasn't an English major :) Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 08:58:51 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jennie Talldeer / Di Tregarde Message-ID: <9505050859.AA12552-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > Does anyone else think that Jennie Talldeer / Kestral- > hunts-alone is an updated version of Di Tregarde ? Hard to tell, since I haven't seen _Sacred Ground_ yet - but there's a whole sub-genre of adept-defends-unknowing-normals/ adept-defeats-unknown-nasties/normal-becomes-adept-to-defeat-nasty books out there, so it may just be another book of the same type rather than an update - in the same way that Tayledras aren't updated heralds. :-). The drawback with this sort of book, is that although the details and the story itself can be pretty good, the basic plot tends to be very similar: (1) nasty becomes apparent/hero[ine] becomes involved (2) nasty becomes worse/hero[ine] starts to investigate (3) nasty realises, attacks hero[ine]; hero[ine] has narrow escape (4) hero[ine] completes investigation, gets info about nasty (5) Big showdown with nasty; hero[ine] victorious; nasty optionally escapes (usually without hero[ine] realising) to set up possible sequel. normal-becomes-adept usually mixes in (a) hero[ine] seeks help from adept (b) hero[ine] learns basics (c) hero[ine] has minor victory (d) hero[ine] decides to give up magic (e) hero[ine] nearly gets killed by nasty; usually rescued by teacher (f) hero[ine] accepts destiny (g) hero[ine] has final showdown without teacher's aid; wins; ends book as new adept (Which is probably why, although I like the Di Tregarde books, I tend to class the Velgarth ones as more clearly original). -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 10:04:00 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jennie Talldeer / Di Tregarde Message-ID: <9505050904.AA18971-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Jerry accurately summarises a class of plots thus: > (1) nasty becomes apparent/hero[ine] becomes involved > (2) nasty becomes worse/hero[ine] starts to investigate > (3) nasty realises, attacks hero[ine]; hero[ine] has narrow escape > (4) hero[ine] completes investigation, gets info about nasty > (5) Big showdown with nasty; hero[ine] victorious; nasty optionally > escapes (usually without hero[ine] realising) to set up possible sequel. > Well, yes, but that summarises the basic plot of a _lot_ of horror stories, especially some of the "classic" ones. I was trying to work out where I had seen that plot before, and then I realised it was in 90%+ of all known Call of Cthulhu scenarios :) > normal-becomes-adept usually mixes in > > (a) hero[ine] seeks help from adept > (b) hero[ine] learns basics > (c) hero[ine] has minor victory > (d) hero[ine] decides to give up magic > (e) hero[ine] nearly gets killed by nasty; usually rescued by teacher > (f) hero[ine] accepts destiny > (g) hero[ine] has final showdown without teacher's aid; wins; > ends book as new adept > Ah yes, the Star Wars plot :) > (Which is probably why, although I like the Di Tregarde books, I tend to > class the Velgarth ones as more clearly original). It's a close call, to my mind. The Di Tregarde books certainly don't have so much originality in their setting -- you wouldn't expect them to, they are set in (an analogue of) the "real world". Anyhow, knock off the first three of your second set, and you have at least part of the plot of "Magic's Pawn" :):) Didn't someone say, many years ago (it may even have been in ancient times), that there were only some specified number of basic plots? My memory is coming up with the number 37, but I make no claims as to its accuracy ... Mel. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 4 *******************************