MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 8 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Ummm, hi, ummm, is this mike on? by Catherine Osborne 2) re: McKinley, Dean, and Goddesses by Anne Cross 3) Ye Gods! by Rosario Holsen-Baker 4) Re: Ummm, hi, ummm, is this mike on? by 941200422 5) Re: Roleplaying by 941200422 6) Bonding (bondage? ) by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 7) Sacred Ground by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 8) Re: Sacred Ground by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 9) Re: Bonding (bondage? ) by TSRadon-+AT+-aol.com 10) the virtual tea-party by Elise Packee 11) Re: Sacred Ground by Anne Cross 12) Re: Virtual tea party by Catherine A Murdoch 13) re: McKinley, Dean, and Goddesses by Catherine A Murdoch 14) Re: virtual tea and crumpets by Catherine A Murdoch ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 07:45:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Ummm, hi, ummm, is this mike on? Message-ID: No, Sidwell is in Washington DC (Tenleytown in NW to be precise...) I\/ Catherine Osborne "I will not go down to I\/ Sundancer posterity talking bad I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu grammar." I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ --Disraeli ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 07:50:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Anne Cross To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: McKinley, Dean, and Goddesses Message-ID: On Sun, 7 May 1995, Vivian Choh wrote: > For those who have read it: Did you feel that Disney ripped off her > McKinley's idea and re-work it like i did, or do you think it is just a > coincidence that the curtains and candles "had minds" of their own? They swiped it. My mother and I agree on that point. I think Disney did a very nice job of making it into a movie, although their version lacked the two older sisters and gave us Gaston instead, but didn't you see how Phillipe was willing to take Belle back to the castle, protect her, etc? If that's not Greatheart... Not to mention the enchanted roses and the spooky castle. Anne Cross across-+AT+-sidwell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 07:53:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: x-Philes Cc: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Ye Gods! Message-ID: Ye GOds! This is the first time I've had something to post on both lists...If I go into explanations for one or the other groups, bear with me, this will only take a minute... The most recent episode of X-Files, Soft Light, incorporated a theory of spontaneous human combustion. That was one of the FBI Agent's theories at least (Agent Mulder). He never got into a scientific explanation, but the first thing I thought of was that spontaneous human combustion is what happens when you get the Folk pissed at you (Faeries, human-sized mystic Fair Folk of Ireland type). Bael-fire, a kind of flame they can call that is practically heatless to all but it's target (I think) is something like what I was thinking of. --Jaguar-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 20:51:26 +0800 (CST) From: 941200422 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Ummm, hi, ummm, is this mike on? Message-ID: Welcome to the wonderful environment of this list. Michael Dawson m53027-+AT+-mtc.ntnu.edu.tw ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 20:55:12 +0800 (CST) From: 941200422 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Roleplaying Message-ID: I used to run fantasy games a lot. I eventually worked out my own diceless system. (I worked on one long before White Wolf etc.) :) Anyway, I was very close to running some adventures set in the wonderful world of ML, but then the group broke up and I moved to Taiwan where I have no one to game with. If I started a play by e-mail game in about a month or so, would 5-10 people be interested? Let me know if you are and tell me about yourself and if the interest is there, I will work out the game. :) Wind To Thy Wings! Michael Dawson m53027-+AT+-mtc.ntnu.edu.tw ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 6:57:05 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Bonding (bondage? ) Message-ID: <950508065705.22606003-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> >>although we could speculate that Firesong and his Dyhelli >Interesting idea...Have to admit that I never thought of that, though it does >make a tremendous amount of sense. But where is the Dhyelli in Storm Warning? >I doubt that the bonded's couuld be away from each other too long...(I wanna >see his Dhyelli making friends with and Mind-Speaking with a Companion.) >I think of the Dhyelli as intelligent as well....but why aren't intelligent >beings able to bond? HMMM? >Who want's a bond-ChineseRat (the ones that were mistaken for large cats >{evil, wicked, toothy grin) >Later folks... Well, the Dyhelli (is Dhyelli the correct spelling?) is clearly in Haven with the rest of the group. He came along with Firesong to prove that there are other intelligent non-human races, as stated at the end of Winds of Fate(?) The least Winds book, where the party gets "kidnapped". I speculate that the real reason is that he and Firesong are bonded. I don't know if this is true, and I'm not saying I believe it to be true, it's pure speculation. So the Dyhelli is there. He just never shows up in Storm Warning, which had me a little disappointed. But Firesong was probably drawing on his power the whole time he worked magic. Warrl clearly bonded with Tarma - he said "I bond with you", I don't see how it can get clearer than that. Very similar to Choosing "I choose you". So I would suggest that the bond between Warrl and Tarma, between bond-birds and Tayledras, between Companions and Heralds, and possibly between Firecats and Priests is an identical bond. In addition, I would even go so far to suggest that it is the same type of bond as a lifebond. Notice how the lifebond creates a channel between the two partners? And so does the bond between the above mentioned pairs. I speculate that the lifebond is on one "channel" and the other bonds are on a different but identical sort of "channel". Kind of like a radio or T.V. Just a few thoughts to get the gray cells going this morning. The only one I'm not at all sure about is the bond between the Firecat and Karal. The Firecat seems to help out more than just Karal, and reports back to the High Priestess, etc. It seems less of a bond and more of a "marriage of convenience". In other words, when the need for Karal to have the advice of a Firecat diminishes, perhaps the Firecat will go away? I'm not sure about this at all, but there just doesn't seem to be a bond between these two. Iris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 7:21:59 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Sacred Ground Message-ID: <950508072159.22606003-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> I found this book over the weekend in paperback. Yeah! Read it over the weekend. I liked it overall, but a few things bothered me. Yes it clearly looks like a Di Tregarde-as-Indian-Investigator story. In other words, reincarnate Di as an Indian and boom, there's Sacred Ground. But that's okay. I like Di stories, so I liked this. It seemed a lighter story than your normal Di book, though. Di books seem to me dark and brooding, filled with foreboding. This had an airier feel to it. Now to the part I didn't like as much. [putting on flame proof suit] This is another book that portrays Native Americans (hereafter referred to as "Indians") as the Noble Savage. There they were just living in harmony with the great spirits, and nature, and animals and each other, when the Evil White Man came along and destroyed they're way of life. The Indians weren't living in harmony with each other, or in some cases with nature. The White Man was not usually evil, though often greedy and frequently stupid. The White Man did certainly utterly destroy the Indians way of life, which is reprehensible and just as evil as the slavery of Africans. And in neither case can restitution ever be made (how can you give back someone's culture?) Setting that aside, this always bothers me. Boiling things down to simplistic ideas of right and wrong. And that is a theme that runs throughout Misty's books. There's the guys with the white hats (or white horses :) and the guys with the black hats. There are no shades of gray. You are either good or bad, Good or Evil. Does this show a certain lack in her books? I don't know. Maybe. As she even quoted in Storm Warning, the quote we've been throwing back and forth about "Good done in the name of Evil is still good" etc, good people do bad things thinking they are doing good, and vice versa. It would be nice to see a more complex character in her books, someone who means to do well but does evil. I'm talking about a main character here, since I just thought of Dave in, oh what was it, "Children of the Night". He was a shades-of-gray kind of character. Anyway this post has gotten way to long, so I'll sit here in my flame-proof office waiting for Armageddon to hit. I hope no one misunderstands me. I feel great sympathy for the people that have been plowed under by "progress" but I just don't like black and white visions of the world. There are a thousand shades of gray out there, and I wish people would examine them more closely. Iris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 12:27:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sacred Ground Message-ID: Iris, You said, "Boiling things down to right and wrong. And that is a theme that runs throughout Misty's books. There's the guys with the white hats (or white horses :) and the guys with the black hats. There are no shades of gray. You are either good or bad, Good or Evil. Does this show a certain lack in her books? I don't know. Maybe. It would be nice to see a more complex character in her books, someone who means to do well but does evil. I'm talking about a main character here " Maybe she is moving towards that with Tremayne in the *Storm* trilogy? Granted, he is ambitious to beat out the rest of his rivals to be the next Emperor after Charliss, and he does order the release of the "little birds", without caring if that results in the death of the agent, but there is a reference to his knowing that this will cause him some sleepless nights. That doesn't sound like a totally evil person to me. One who has been taught that expediency is necessary, that the end justifies the means, but who may not be completely comfortable with the means. He is also angry at the notion that perhaps the Emperor is willing to trample on the loyalty of his troops. Why would Tremayne get angry at that thought unless he feels loyalty to the troops? One of the most despicable things about ML's villains (to me) is their uncaring, callous, exploitive disregard for their underlings; Falconsbane in particular is like this. Of course, we don't have the other 2 *Storm* books yet. I've wondered about this empire. I mean, can you see Selaney or Solaris wanting to rule some huge empire? Talk about spreading Heralds thinly! Yet clearly, Charliss is not going to be around forever. Here's one possibility: Tremayne does become the next emperor, and Karal, as envoy to the Empire, is helping to make changes there. --Barra Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb Harpers have pluck--but don't get strung out.--Barra the Bard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 17:34:27 -0400 From: TSRadon-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bonding (bondage? ) Message-ID: <950508173219_111358215-+AT+-aol.com> I think that the "bond" between Karal and Altra is in some kind of a premature stage, even if it is a bond. It's been a while since I actually read Storm's.... so I don't remember if there was actually any evidence that supported an actual bond between the two. There was a magical channel open between Karal and Altra, if I'm not mistaken, but a bond does not have to exist to form a channel. Like Karal is a natural channel or something... TSRADON Try my hand at this quote thang.... "If you always tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything!"- Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 15:25:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Elise Packee To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: the virtual tea-party Message-ID: I can't bake, but i make a mean box of macaroni and cheese....And I'll bring doctor pepper (bottles and bottles of it) okay, , but ya'll...I feel imust tell you that I look forward to reading this list every day. It is my treat to myself. thank you for being here, and being nice...and i have a question, has anyone else out there every designed their own whites? I am curious because I have, and i know a few people who are, and i want to hear what other people have designed....and i will tell you mine...later Elise ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 1995 21:21:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Anne Cross To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sacred Ground Message-ID: On Mon, 8 May 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: > I hope no one misunderstands me. I feel great sympathy for the > people that have been plowed under by "progress" but I just don't > like black and white visions of the world. There are a thousand > shades of gray out there, and I wish people would examine them > more closely. I understand it, and I agree with you. One of the reasons that I read Misty's work is that it's so black and white, but in the times when it isn't so clearly perfect, like Dave's case or Vanyel's problems, where the hero isn't perfect and the situation isn't pefectly clear cut -- those are the most interesting, and the perfect and simple palls after a while. I'd like it very much if Misty wrote something more with a non-herald non-lifebonded character again, like Kethry or Kero or Tarma or (forlorn hope) Vanyel. Maybe even Sunsinger and Shadowdancer before they got Chosen? :) Anne Cross across-+AT+-sidwell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 17:34:09 +1000 (EST) From: Catherine A Murdoch To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Virtual tea party Message-ID: If Anne is going to bring hot scones, I will bring butter, jam and cream. Hot scones with butter or scones with jam and cream are scrum-diddly-umptious. -- -- Catherine Murdoch | Internet: ulcam-+AT+-dewey.newcastle.edu.au Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 217147 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 "If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat." - Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 17:54:43 +1000 (EST) From: Catherine A Murdoch To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: McKinley, Dean, and Goddesses Message-ID: Angharad, You are quite right when you describe today's fairy tales for children as "wimpy" compared to their original versions. The original story of Red Riding Hood was absolutely grisly, and not only were Sleeping Beauty's two children almost eaten by her mother-in-law, but so was she. -- -- Catherine Murdoch | Internet: ulcam-+AT+-dewey.newcastle.edu.au Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 217147 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 "If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat." - Mark Twain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 17:59:16 +1000 (EST) From: Catherine A Murdoch To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: virtual tea and crumpets Message-ID: If pidgeons are going to be a problem, I will bring my cat. He can be a virtual firecat, and he will have cream, please. -- -- Catherine Murdoch | Internet: ulcam-+AT+-dewey.newcastle.edu.au Auchmuty Library | Ph (intl+61+49) 217147 University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA | Fax (intl+61+49) 215833 "If man could be crossed with a cat, it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat." - Mark Twain ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 8 *******************************