MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 33 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: gwena by "Lisa" 2) Casting by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 3) Re: other bo by terryg-+AT+-blade.com 4) Re: gwena by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 5) Re:other books by "Thomas, Daria" 6) Re: Casting by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 7) Re: Vrondi by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 8) Re: Roaln's voice by "Lisa" 9) Re: casting arrows by "Lisa" 10) Re: Green Lion Trilogy by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 11) Re: other bo by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 12) Companions' Voices by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 13) Re: Rolan's Voice by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 14) Re: gwena by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 15) Re: Other books by heb4-+AT+-cornell.edu (Heather Elizabeth Blatt) 16) Re: my .02 worth by j hewitt 17) King Arthur/Morgan --if you don't care, skip this! by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 18) Re: Vrondi by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 19) Re: gwena by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 20) Re: Rolan's Voice by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 21) Re: Casting by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 22) Re: Other authors by jah10-+AT+-cornell.edu (Jay A. Howell) 23) Re: other bo by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 24) Re: other bo by TSRadon-+AT+-aol.com 25) Re: other bo by wannis-+AT+-cs.wisc.edu (William Annis) 26) Re: other bo by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 27) Re: Vrondi by Vivian Choh 28) Re: Green Lion Trilogy by Michael Richards 29) Re: Rolan's Voice by Michael Richards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 13:39:28 EST From: "Lisa" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: gwena Message-ID: > Gwena was certainly very interesting, but Elspeth... I'd be perfectly > happy if we never saw another novel with Elspeth as central character. > I've always been convinced that Elspeth had to have a young Grove-born > Companion because all of the regular ones knew her too well to want to > deal with her temper and her remaining Bratliness. DITTO. (well, I think she got a grove born companion because her mage power was so new and strong, but that's the only addendum I would make.) Elspeth just seems to be too self centered. Okay, okay, she's a herald and therefore has this need to help and be selfless when the times call for it, but she's still a brat. When she was training with Darkwind, everything was me...my way...etc...I don't see that much change in her. Does she just have one of the brusque, terse personalities that make her seem self-absorbed even though she's not? Lisa Mix some foolishness with the serious stuff: It's good to be silly at the right time ---- Horace ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lisa M. Ramirez ~ ramirez-+AT+-estuary.amrl.odu.edu Applied Marine Research Laboratory ~ Lab: (804) 683-3498 1034 W. 45th St. ~ FAX: (804) 683-5293 Norfolk, VA 23529 ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 10:43:09 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Casting Message-ID: <950531104309.21c00a3e-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> Well if they have to make the darned movie (which I strenuously object to), I definitely see James Earl Jones' voice for Rolan. I could listen to him for hours. If Sean Connery were a whole lot younger, he'd make a great Skif. He's got that mischievous look about him at all times. I suppose they'd end up casting Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt as Kris. They seem to get all the good-looking roles these days. And for once, I can actually picture Tom Cruise doing a role. Jane Seymour as Selenay? Iris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 09:38:48 -0400 From: terryg-+AT+-blade.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: other bo Message-ID: <9505311338.0J66100-+AT+-blade.com> > >Willow and the Princess Bride). Jenneke mentioned getting respect > from > >filmmakers, but I think it's more than that. We all have our own > ideas > >about what these amazing worlds and characters should be like, and > nobody's > >film is going to capture the details that make them so incredible. Not only do you have a problem with the filmmakers but you have problems with certain members of the public. After reading this thread, I mentioned it to a friend of mine who is a senior editor for the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Co.). He informed me that the CBC had acquired the rights to do a pilot for an animated series based on Anne McCaffrey's Pern novels about 8yrs ago. The pilot was aired on various Canadian and American networks. Unfortunately, American Fundamentalists decried making her books into "Childrens Shows". They claimed that her writings embraced homosexuality and their lifestyle. Further that it in encouraged children to embrace such a lifestyle which in their minds was irresponsible in a time of A.I.D.S.With A.I.D.S. being still relatively new at this time, their "fear-mongering" won o ut. The CBC did not feel they had enough of a market for the show here in Canada alone. I suggested they now try to resurrect the project. Hopefully......Keep your fingers crossed! Terry Toronto, Canada ================================================================================ == == == == Supreme Court Of Canada Rules Gays & Lesbians "Analogous" under == == section 15 of the Charter of Rights! Discrimination based on == == sexual orientation is not right! == == == == == == ...one small step for mankind......one GIANT step for Gaykind! == == == ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 18:56:05 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: gwena Message-ID: <9505311756.AA08493-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > Elspeth just seems to be too self centered. Okay, okay, > she's a herald and therefore has this need to help and be selfless > when the times call for it, but she's still a brat. When she > was training with Darkwind, everything was me...my way...etc...I > don't see that much change in her. Does she just have one of the > brusque, terse personalities that make her seem self-absorbed even > though she's not? > Perhaps it's a personality trait often found in people with mage-power. Van was often "bratty" when young, and he tended to revert to that when exhausted (I think I'm getting this from "Magic's Promise"). When he was around, people were relying on him because they were used to having Herald- Mages about; at the moment, despite Elspeth's powers, nobody is relying on her to the same extent. Maybe she'll settle down if they do. Cheers Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 95 13:18:00 cdt From: "Thomas, Daria" To: 'mercedes-lackey' Subject: Re:other books Message-ID: <2FCCB345-+AT+-mailsrvr.bussvc.wisc.edu> (Another lurker comes out of the woodwork) I can't believe no one has mentioned Barbara Hambly!! Can I be the only one who adores Antryg Windrose?? The Silent Tower and The Silicon Mage are terrific books, as well as Dog Wizard and the other book set in that universe. Dragonsbane is also a good book, with a fun twist on the typical hero off-to-slay-the-evil-dragon syndrome. I also like the fact that her main characters seem to be normal people, i.e. they wear spectacles, or are computer programmers, etc. -Daria (Back to lurking) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 19:24:26 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Casting Message-ID: <9505311824.AA10426-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> I wonder if Susan Sarandon is quite old enough for Savil? Guess not, not just yet... Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 14:39:54 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vrondi Message-ID: <199505311839.OAA16961-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Sea Witch wrote: >On Wed, 31 May 1995, Vivian Choh wrote: >> I thought that the blue eyes were one of those traits that distinguished >> the Shin'a'in people (or maybe even the Kale'din (sp?) people in general) >> much like how Scandanavians are blond-blue-eyed and orientals are black >> haired, brown eyes... >I thought that blue eyes were rare in the Shin'a'in people. Remember how >Kethry's children are said to be much in demand as potential mates because >of their blond hair and blue eyes. Green eyes. Kethry had golden hair and "grass eyes", as the Shin'a'in kids put it when they first see her. As far as I can tell, the pure Shin'a'in don't have the brown-eye gene at all, which makes green eyes extremely rare. -jenneke, posting too much today... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 14:47:49 EST From: "Lisa" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Roaln's voice Message-ID: What about Liam Neeson for Rolan's voice? woulkd he need to lose the accent? Lisa Mix some foolishness with the serious stuff: It's good to be silly at the right time ---- Horace ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lisa M. Ramirez ~ ramirez-+AT+-estuary.amrl.odu.edu Applied Marine Research Laboratory ~ Lab: (804) 683-3498 1034 W. 45th St. ~ FAX: (804) 683-5293 Norfolk, VA 23529 ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 14:53:23 EST From: "Lisa" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: casting arrows Message-ID: I just had a thought for who could play Talia? What about Claire Danes (from Little Women and "My So-Called Life"). She can play a vulnerable and uncertain person, but you can definitely see the steel strength beneath her? Now who will play Skif? Lisa Mix some foolishness with the serious stuff: It's good to be silly at the right time ---- Horace ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lisa M. Ramirez ~ ramirez-+AT+-estuary.amrl.odu.edu Applied Marine Research Laboratory ~ Lab: (804) 683-3498 1034 W. 45th St. ~ FAX: (804) 683-5293 Norfolk, VA 23529 ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:16:43 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Green Lion Trilogy Message-ID: <950531151641_18450919-+AT+-aol.com> Hi Everyone! Oh wow- some other person, or should I say people read those books!! . . . . I had borrowed book one out from the library on a whim, then WALKED the 6 miles back to the library to get book two the same afternoon . . . now, would you believe I have NEVER been able to find book 3?? Would whomever is reading these books post or send me the ISBN number, publisher, price and the like?? Thanks a bunch! Anne annes3832-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 12:20:00 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: other bo Message-ID: <950531122000.21c00a3e-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> Terry writes: > After reading this thread, I mentioned it to a friend of mine who is a >senior editor for the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Co.). He informed me that the >CBC had acquired the rights to do a pilot for an animated series based on Anne >McCaffrey's Pern novels about 8yrs ago. The pilot was aired on various Canadian >and American networks. > Unfortunately, American Fundamentalists decried making her books into >"Childrens Shows". They claimed that her writings embraced homosexuality and >their lifestyle. Further that it in encouraged children to embrace such a >lifestyle which in their minds was irresponsible in a time of A.I.D.S.With >A.I.D.S. being still relatively new at this time, their "fear-mongering" won o >ut. The CBC did not feel they had enough of a market for the show here in >Canada alone. Promotes homosexuality? I give. Where in the Pern books is there any homosexuality? I missed something there. Promiscuity certainly. But homosexuality? Someone want to give me a specific reference? The riders are extremely promiscuous. That is made clear. But otherwise???? Iris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:27:17 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Companions' Voices Message-ID: <950531152714_18457282-+AT+-aol.com> Hi Everyone! Melissa said: <> Hmmm- Well, it seems a shame to give him so few times to actually 'talk' but I always sorta heard James Earl Jones as Rolan . . . Most male Companions have, in my mind, those booming deep voices, and female Companions have the same 'booming' overtones . . . . . They speak with that 'terribly proper' inflection that all of the old english teachers in my elementary school had too . . . -grin- Sorry, but when I read I "see" the action, and "hear" it . . . . . wierd, hmmm? Later, all- have a lovely afternoon! Anne annes3832-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:50:41 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Rolan's Voice Message-ID: <950531154856_18470549-+AT+-aol.com> Hi Everyone! Deanna said: <> Wow- the spooky thing is that I didn't read this post afore sending in my own . . . .guess a lot of folk hear Cmpanions with those booming voices . . . . . . Anne annes3832-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 12:55:48 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Cc: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com Subject: Re: gwena Message-ID: <950531125548.21c00a3e-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> You know, I see the positive sides to Elspeth. But she isn't "special". What I would call Herald material. She isn't the type of person you would expect to throw her life away on the off chance of saving a handful of peasants. Which is exactly what you expect from a Herald. That's what makes them special. So people like Elspeth, or Lores (remember in Magic's Promise? the herald that was beating Ghost), aren't what you would expect to see in a Herald. Maybe beyond just being unselfish and totally giving, Companions choose Heralds for specific abilities (i.e. Elspeth's mage gift). But Elspeth is the type of person that would be a perfectly good ruler in any other country, but not the person you expect to see as a Herald. Not that I've overstated that. Sorry. Iris - who's feeling a little repetitive, in a repetitive sort of way ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gwena was certainly very interesting, but Elspeth... I'd be perfectly > happy if we never saw another novel with Elspeth as central character. > I've always been convinced that Elspeth had to have a young Grove-born > Companion because all of the regular ones knew her too well to want to > deal with her temper and her remaining Bratliness. DITTO. (well, I think she got a grove born companion because her mage power was so new and strong, but that's the only addendum I would make.) Elspeth just seems to be too self centered. Okay, okay, she's a herald and therefore has this need to help and be selfless when the times call for it, but she's still a brat. When she was training with Darkwind, everything was me...my way...etc...I don't see that much change in her. Does she just have one of the brusque, terse personalities that make her seem self-absorbed even though she's not? Lisa Mix some foolishness with the serious stuff: It's good to be silly at the right time ---- Horace ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lisa M. Ramirez ~ ramirez-+AT+-estuary.amrl.odu.edu Applied Marine Research Laboratory ~ Lab: (804) 683-3498 1034 W. 45th St. ~ FAX: (804) 683-5293 Norfolk, VA 23529 ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:59:26 -0400 From: heb4-+AT+-cornell.edu (Heather Elizabeth Blatt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other books Message-ID: Has anyone ever read Zorah Greenhalgh's Trickster books? _Contrariwise_ and _Trickster's Touch_? They are very good, I'd recommend them to anyone who likes fantasy, but never really caught on...the way the second ends, I feel there should be a third, but the last time I checked, she had nothing out. The first begins with a "Dinner of the Gods"--Panthe'kinarok--where everything the gods--really closer to demigods, being as they are subject to the Presence--everything they do translates into human reality; the gods, mainly Trickster, begin a time of change for humanity. The humans have differnt characteristics depending on where they are born, in which _draw_--rather like Eddings, but to an extreme: Jinnjirri are artistic and shift gender and hair color at whim, the Tammirings are psychic and the `priests' for all the _draws_, etc. Edgerton's a nice read...how about Midori Snyder's trilogy: _New Moon_, _Sadar's Keep_, and _Beldan's Fire_? The first book has the cover illustration done by Jody Lee. All sort of light fantasy. Also, has anyone read any of Judith Tarr's stuff?--one of my all-over favorite authors. She's now writing historical fiction--_Lord of the Two Lands_ and _Throne of Isis_ (about Alexander the Great in Egypt and Cleopatra and Antony, respectively)--but her earlier books were fantasy, historical fantasy somewhat akin to KKurtz. She has a trilogy and a duology that are my favorite: the _Hound and the Falcon_ trilogy (I've forgotten individual titles since I now have them in an omnibus edition) and _The Dagger and the Cross_ and its companion volume. Main characters are all Elves, dealing mainly with their (rather inevitable) conflict with the Catholic Church. HatF begins during the reign of Richard Lionheart and ends maybe 15 years after the fall of Constantinople in one of the Crusades (I forget which number). DatC or the other of the duology is set in the Middle East, between a Prince of Gwynedd (an elf) and a Muslim Assassin of the Hashishayun (forgive the spelling!), whom he wants to marry--king of Jerusalem is Badouin. Sorry about going on at such length! --Elizabeth. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:01:21 -0500 (CDT) From: j hewitt To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: my .02 worth Message-ID: On Wed, 31 May 1995, Sandy Haas wrote: > Hertasi are also mentioned as lizaard-like in the "Oathbound" when > Kethry is telling the story of Gervase (?) to the Clan. does my memory fail me, or wasn't there a picture of a hertasi in Black Gryphon? (at least in the hard bound copy) Jim Hewitt Co-ordinator of Reference Services 218-299-4239 (office) Ylvisaker Library hewitt-+AT+-cobber.cord.edu Concordia College hewitt-+AT+-gloria.cord.edu Moorhead, MN 56562 http://www.cord.edu/faculty/hewitt/index.html HELP!! I'm calling from the corner of Walk and Don't Walk streets!!! ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 16:11:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: King Arthur/Morgan --if you don't care, skip this! Message-ID: In response to what Lisa R. wrote on the Matter of Britain: I generally seem to have a slightly different "take" on the Arthurian stories, and I think that's because I first HEARD them in stories from my grandmother when I was very tiny, along with the family stories, Bible stories, and Scottish and Welsh folktales/myths/legends which had been handed down to her by her grandparents. It wasn't until I was auditing a course on Malory in grad school, and reading any and everything I could get my hands on concerning them that it dawned on me that my perspective differed a bit from my classmates. The core of the Arthurian tales was oral tradition. As Lisa mentions, the first written mentions of Arthur (and Merlin/Myrrddin--who may have come together from 2 or 3 different characters in Welsh tales) are in the Maboginion. Many others, known and unknown, have been adding their bits to the mosiac of the tales ever since, in many languages. No one knows who added on/connected the other characters. Sir Thomas Malory's *Le Morte d'Arthur*, the best known version (before T.H.White, anyway) was sort of an edited version/compilation, complete with scorecards of various battles, jousts, tourneys, and melees (today he'd be a sportscaster)...and I *wish* I knew what he decided to leave out. My grandmother, who was we thought the tail end of a long family oral tradition, loved the Arthurian legends and infected me. My favorites and hers were stories about Morgan the Fey (I quote Gramma, lest she start spinning in her grave before coming to haunt me--no Frenchified nonsense about the spelling for HER). Reading Malory, I realized two things: as Lisa said, the women are either totally passive (Guinevere, who exists to be rescued or send poor Lance out on another impossible quest), piously good (various lady abbesses/hermits/nuns), or rotten to the core (Morgause springs to mind). The men are either good or bad. The only ambiguous character in Malory is Morgan le Fey. Sometimes she is Arthur's beloved sister Anna at court, and at others she is Morganna, scheming to bring down the Round Table. She is the only really strong woman who is not simply bad. I also realized that I seemed to know things about Morgan that weren't in Malory. I read it 2 more times, underlining every reference to her to be sure. Figured out that those additions came from ...Gramma. In 1975, I started writing poems about Morgan, from her viewpoint, and did more research. I kept finding things to back up my non-Malory suppositions about her. Conclusion: Gramma knew some fragments of legends about Morgan which are not in Malory. I became fascinated with the character of Morgan: how did other people react to her having such power? Who taught her to control it? What were her motivations? WHY did she change about so much? 120 pages later, I was up to her getting married to Urien and knew that this was not going to be a short or publishable work. Like Winchester Cathedral, "It isn't done yet!" if it ever is. But there are so many bits in that mosaic of tales! My ha'penny's worth! --Barra ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:23:41 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vrondi Message-ID: <199505312023.AA136871821-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> [snip previous comments] >It's definitely a bleaching thing with the Tayledras, because Moonwind (I >think; whichever it was who spoke with Vanyel) mentioned that he had not >looked that way before starting to use magic. As far as the Shin'a'in >(probably another mangling of the spelling :)) go, for them I presume it is >genetic blue eyes & blond(e) hair, rather than white. I don't imagine that >there's a whole lot of racial mixing out there on the plains -- they thought >that Kethry was something really unusual -- did the children not believe >she was ill when they first saw her? > >Cheers > >Mel, classical Celt. (black hair, blue eyes) I don't believe the Shin'a'nin, as a whole, were light colored - more like Tarma who is dark haired and eyed, I believe. Recollections of their physical descriptions always remind me of the American Indian. Plus remember how when Kethry and Tarma arrived at that Shin'a'nin camp and all the children were surprised at her coloring, in particular her blond hair. The only Shin'a'nin clan to have lighter colored hair and eyes as a (genetic?) rule was the Clan Talsedrin, as most were descendants of Kethry and Jadrek. A few times comments were made by different characters on how they could identify the clan of various Shin'a'nin as Talsedrin solely due to their lightcoloring, eg. Andesha (sp?). - Helen [a golden-green eyed, blond of Germanic-Celtic descent] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 16:35:51 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: gwena Message-ID: <950531163548_18501494-+AT+-aol.com> Hi everyone! OK . . . .::taking a deep breath:: I want to take a small stand here for Elspeth. I have to say I like her a lot more than I liked Talia . . . . . ok, so shoot me! -grin- Elspeth had a LOUSEY life, and kinda was the best person she COULD be after it all. She was shoved away by her mom, was basically told her dad was a murdering viper, and then was raised by Hulda. This produced, as it probably would in 99% of children, a 'brat' who feels VERY unwanted. Hulda is shown to not love her either, and vanishes, and she is then thrown to Talia who has to de-brat her any way she can, while still not getting much from her mom- emotionally, that is. When finally trained to act the way OTHERS deem acceptable, she is then allowed to join Court, but of course, everyone there STILL refers to her as the brat, and treats her according to that standard. Then, she is never left alone, is hounded on whom she can or can't have feelings for, and THEN the Companions decide THEY will decide where and how THEY will get her trained . . . . Add in the smug Companion Gwena to the mix, supposedly one of the few things in your life who had already judged you and finds you perfect for her- SHE even keeps things from you, and talks about you behind your back, and basically treats you like you are a brat. I don't know about you- but that life would make ME a true weasel to deal with, and stubborn, and pretty damn angry at the world. My 35 cents on the matter . . . . <> Anne annes3832-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:36:19 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Rolan's Voice Message-ID: <199505312036.AA156932579-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> [snip previous messages] Doing Rolan's voice would be a bit part- there are only a couple of instances where he speaks outright in the books, when he chooses Talia, when he aids Dirk to first retrieve Talia from Ancar's dungeon and then to draw Talia's soul back to her body. He's supposed to talk to other Companions occasionally, but unless they add in that dialogue or allow Talia and Rolan to talk together in the script rather than "emote" to one other there wouldn't be much to say. I would be very leery of a movie version of these books. I just can't imagine them doing the non-human characters very well at all. Particularly if they do the full scale puppet versions as in that BBC version of the Narnia stories, yuck. That really ruined the imagery in the Narnia books for me for awhile. Or the non-human characters in The Neverending story which were not all that great. CGI, ie. computer graphics, might be possible - they do a pretty good job in Babylon 5 with them although I haven't really seen an animate object made up in this technique. This technique would be particularly powerful for doing magic effects. About the best anthropomorphism of a horse was in that most recent Black Beauty movie where they used a talented group of horses with very descriptive voice overs. -Helen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 15:49:24 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Casting Message-ID: <199505312049.AA176453364-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> >Well if they have to make the darned movie (which I strenuously object to), [snip] I agree. >If Sean Connery were a whole lot younger, he'd make a great Skif. >He's got that mischievous look about him at all times. I think a better Skif would be Cary Elwes - from The Princess Bride, etc. >I suppose they'd end up casting Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt as Kris. [shiver] if either of these two got that role I would avoid this movie. Plus neither of them are pretty enough....I always pictured Kris as "pretty" and not so much handsome. For Dirk, although he's probably too tall, how about that depressed friend in Ferris Bueller's Day Off, can't think of his name. He was also that tourist with the tacky sports jacket and who almost missed the transfer to the other bus in SPEED. He has that right blend of features which aren't particularly handsome. He might be too old now....although he would have been a good casting when he was younger. -Helen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 17:14:56 -0500 From: jah10-+AT+-cornell.edu (Jay A. Howell) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other authors Message-ID: >Heyla all!, > >Has anybody read Mealnie Rawn or Tad Williams? > >Toodles >Matt J > >-+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+- > >Love your hair hope it wins! > >-+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+--+AT+- Matt, Yes, I have read ALL of Melanie Rawn's books. (Damned big books, each and every one.) She is a good writer, if a bit drawn to detailing every little piece of clothing, and every color. Buy the Dragon Prince and Dragon Start trilogies. They are the ones that got me Hooked. Her current trilogy is the Ruins of Ambrai, and the first book is out The Exiles. Jay As a friend's signature says: > Why is it that, as a culture, > We are more comfortable seeing two > Men holding guns than holding hands? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 22:20:52 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: other bo Message-ID: <9505312120.AA22013-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Re: Pern promoting homosexuality: there is at least one gay pair within the Pern books. I am blanking on one of the names, the other was A'murry, and they must have been in the Moreta yarn, because one had been timing it to spend time with the other, who was ill. I believe A McC has made this quite clear before now. Someone tell me where? Jenneke? Cheers Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 17:26:47 -0400 From: TSRadon-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: other bo Message-ID: <950531172640_18537983-+AT+-aol.com> In a message terryg-+AT+-blade.com wrote: > Also while we're on the subject of other books, what does evryone >think of >the "Forgotten Realms" series put out by TSR industries and their >writers? >(i.e. Troy Denning, R.A. Salvatore, Ed Greenwood etc) That's the stuff I guy named Douglas Niles did also, right? I read one of the books (Darkwalker on Moonshae) and didn't think there was too much depth to the book. Seemed to be more along the lines of supermarket literature ;-) Not really worth it, maybe in the gaps between Lackey, among others..... Dumping a bucket of cold water over my head before signing off, TSRadon. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 95 16:43:13 -0500 From: wannis-+AT+-cs.wisc.edu (William Annis) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: other bo Message-ID: <9505312143.AA00226-+AT+-yar.cs.wisc.edu> >Terry writes: After reading this thread, I mentioned it to a friend >>of mine who is a senior editor for the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting >>Co.). He informed me that the CBC had acquired the rights to do a >>pilot for an animated series based on Anne McCaffrey's Pern novels >>about 8yrs ago. The pilot was aired on various Canadian and >>American networks. >> Unfortunately, American Fundamentalists decried making her >>books into "Childrens Shows". They claimed that her writings >>embraced homosexuality and their lifestyle. > >Promotes homosexuality? I give. Where in the Pern books is there >any homosexuality? I missed something there. Promiscuity certainly. >But homosexuality? Someone want to give me a specific reference? Several references are made throughout the books implying that the riders of blue dragons (green, too?) are homosexual males. (Thus, I have a blue dragon tattoo...) The only reference I can recall without a book present is in _Moreta's Tale_--whatever it's called. Moreta scolds a blue rider for time traveling to help his injured "friend," and for wearing himself out for the same reason. The relationship between the two is commented on and is quite clearly homosexual. Can anyone out there give page numbers? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- William Annis . wannis-+AT+-yar.cs.wisc.edu . http://yar.cs.wisc.edu/~wannis __ Folk musician, opinionated ass, linguistic juggernaut. \/ Pecca fortiter! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 18:08:16 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: other bo Message-ID: <199505312208.SAA17370-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Terry wrote: > Unfortunately, American Fundamentalists decried making her books into >"Childrens Shows". They claimed that her writings embraced homosexuality and >their lifestyle. Further that it in encouraged children to embrace such a >lifestyle which in their minds was irresponsible in a time of A.I.D.S.With >A.I.D.S. being still relatively new at this time, their "fear-mongering" won o >ut. The CBC did not feel they had enough of a market for the show here in >Canada alone. Pretty ironic, isn't it, given Anne's opinion of gays... (Gays get greens and blues because they aren't mature and responsible enough to get the larger dragons, and they have no leadership ability at all, at least according to Anne...) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 18:18:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Vivian Choh To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vrondi Message-ID: On Wed, 31 May 1995, Melanie Dymond Harper wrote: > > Darkwind has "same piercing, ice-blue eyes and bone structure..." > > (Winds of F-pg316) > > > > I thought that the blue eyes were one of those traits that distinguished > > the Shin'a'in people (or maybe even the Kale'din (sp?) people in general) > > much like how Scandanavians are blond-blue-eyed and orientals are black > > haired, brown eyes... > > > > It's definitely a bleaching thing with the Tayledras, because Moonwind (I > think; whichever it was who spoke with Vanyel) mentioned that he had not > looked that way before starting to use magic. As far as the Shin'a'in Maybe that's why the description is always ice or icy blue (rather than say a deep blue or baby kinda blue). Perhaps the Tayledras and Shin'a'in are usually blue-eyed, but using the nodes turns causes the blue to be attenuated. > (probably another mangling of the spelling :)) go, for them I presume it is > genetic blue eyes & blond(e) hair, rather than white. I don't imagine that > there's a whole lot of racial mixing out there on the plains -- they thought > that Kethry was something really unusual -- did the children not believe > she was ill when they first saw her? > > Cheers > > Mel, classical Celt. (black hair, blue eyes) > Actually, Mel, you're also a classical Shin'a'in! Aren't you? Weren't the Shin'a'in supposed to have black hair and blue eyes? Anyone care to check this out? Vivian Choh "I am all that I claim to be. bi189-+AT+-freenet.toronto.on.ca I simply have not claimed all that I am" - M. Lackey, "Oathbreakers" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 23:13:54 +0100 (BST) From: Michael Richards To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Green Lion Trilogy Message-ID: On Wed, 31 May 1995 AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Hi Everyone! > > Oh wow- some other person, or should I say people read those books!! . . . . > I had borrowed book one out from the library on a whim, then WALKED the 6 > miles back to the library there are a long time apart! -grin-> to get book two the same afternoon . . . > now, would you believe I have NEVER been able to find book 3?? *grumble* I only ever found book 1... so can I have this information as well, please? Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 23:24:32 +0100 (BST) From: Michael Richards To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Rolan's Voice Message-ID: > I would be very leery of a movie version of these books. I just can't So would I. One reason I like books is that I can imagine how things look like. I'm not constrained by what actors were affordable/what effects were possible/what the director thought would look good. And the plot doesn't get distorted/changed/ignored to fit whatever the director things will look better (ie, single combat between Our Hero and the bad guy). > Neverending story which were not all that great. CGI, ie. computer > graphics, might be possible - they do a pretty good job in Babylon 5 with > them although I haven't really seen an animate object made up in this Try the Centauri feeder from season 1 - that was all CGI (the thing hiding in a suit like a Vorlons). How well they could do a gryphon, I don't know; but certainly a Vrondi would be no problem. > technique. This technique would be particularly powerful for doing magic > effects. True; at least the obvious ones. I dunno how you could handle telepathy or empathy, unless you just show the person concentrating, the effect on the victim, and have someone ask, "What did you do?". Mike ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 33 ********************************