MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 36 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Movie by Gryfalcon 2) Re: Meeting up by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 3) Re: fundies and censorship by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 4) Re: Meeting up by TAMRA SPIELVOGEL 5) Re: gwena by JensenRed-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: gwena by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 7) gwena & elspeth by oexmann-+AT+-bach.convex.com (Carla Oexmann) 8) Re: Companions' Voices thread by Julie Vaux 9) Re: Companions' Voices thread by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 10) Re: Meeting up by SilverFire 11) Re: gwena by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 12) Evil Mind Magic People by John Maurer ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 14:12:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Gryfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Movie Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jun 1995 SBuskirk-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > > > No one's come up with this one yet, but when it occured to me it seemed so > obvious--Michael Dorn as Alberich! > > And how about Melissa Gilbert as a grown-up Talia? > > Do you think that Lou Diamond Phillips could handle Darkwind? > > What about Tom Cruise as Vanyel? Yeah, I know he's straight, but he does > have the looks, the build, and the skill to do that challenging role. > > > TTFN! > > ~Sandi~ DeLurk mode engaged: Actually I can see Cruise as Ancar. After his performance in Interview With A Vampire, he seems to be very good at being the villian. Back to Lurking --Gyrfalcon -------------------msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu------------------- __ _-==-=_,-. /--`' \_-+AT+---+AT+-.--< `--'\ \ <___/. While Eeyore frets... \ \\ " / and Piglet hesitates... >=\\_/`< and Rabbit calculates... ____ /= | \_/ and Owl pontificates... _' `\ _/=== \__/ and Tigger gets into trouble... `___/ //\./=/~\====\ \ // / | ===: | ._/_,__|_ ==: __ ...Pooh just is. \/ \\ \\`--| / \\ | _ \\: /==:-\ `.__' `-____/ |--|==: \ \ ===\ :==:`-' _> \ ===\ /==/ /==\ | ===\__/--/ <=== \ / ====\ \\/ _`-- \/ === \/--' | \ ==== | -`------/`--' / \___-' ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 14:32:06 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Meeting up Message-ID: <199506021832.OAA18988-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Michael Richards wrote: >> I was just wondering if anyone in the UK would like to meet up one >> weekend over the summer. If you are interested let me know. >Sounds good to me - what do you want to do, a mass raid on Forbidden >Planet or something? *grin* Anyone on the North American East Coast want to do a same day raid on the Forbidden Planet in NYC? -jenneke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 14:49:09 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: fundies and censorship Message-ID: <199506021849.OAA19006-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Julie Vaux wrote: > If these people hate imaginative literature science fiction or > fantasy so much how do they find out if there's any homosex content? I have no idea, but they seem to have an intimate knowledge not only of what speculative fiction has to offer, but also what popular fiction portrays, what movies show, and what porn displays. One might hope that they'd go off and wall themselves away from so much sinfulness, but unfortunately, it's only the ones with some hint of compassion who do. The rest are determined to save us from ourselves, will we or not... > Also it seems to me they may be objected to the lack of religion > on Pern? and to depicted dragons as good? > What is wrong with these people? They're terribly afraid that if they stopped and thought, they might discover that they, too, are mortal and can make mistakes, and then the certainty they love more than freedom, love, or the words of their God would vanish like mist. The idea that what's right for them is not necessarily right for everyone else, and that someone else's wanting to do something is not equivalent to wanting to force everyone else to do it too is alien and frightening to them. To them, there is only One True Way, and either it's theirs, in which case it's their duty to force everyone else to be saved and follow it for their own good, or it's not, and they're doomed to the torment of being wrong. Since they find the latter too frightening to contemplate, they throw all their energy into the former. And now for something quite the same: > yes the au in my address stands for australia Is au also the country code for Austria? If so, is there a convenient way to tell them apart? Cheer up, Julie, at least you don't have the problem Canadians have: it seems that every time a Canadian address is seen, there's some clueless American there wanting to know if they're Californian... -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 95 16:10:16 EDT From: TAMRA SPIELVOGEL To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Meeting up Message-ID: <9506022012.AA22947-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Jenneke- I'll be visiting home 6/14-6/20 (home being NYC) so If you name a day then (not 6/18-My cousin is getting married then) I'll give it a try.---Tamra S ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 20:12:23 -0400 From: JensenRed-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: gwena Message-ID: <950602201222_84854833-+AT+-aol.com> In response to AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com's defense of Elspeth on 95-05-31 I have to say... Go Anne! I kept meaning to go off lurk mode to defend her, but I couldn't find my bullet proof vest! -grin- Elspeth is one of my favorite characters and if your going to say that she isn't Herald material, I think you had better go take a look at Kerowyn. She has the same type of attitude and even admits to not understanding why someone would give up their life for people they have never seen. Not that I think that Kero shouldn't be a Herald, I thnik she makes a good one, but Elspeth is as deserving (if not more) as Kero. My $.02 Jensen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 21:58:53 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: gwena Message-ID: <199506030158.VAA19246-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> JensenRed-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Elspeth is one of my favorite characters and if your going to say that she > isn't Herald material, I think you had better go take a look at Kerowyn. She > has the same type of attitude and even admits to not understanding why > someone would give up their life for people they have never seen. Where does Kero say this when she's not being backed against a wall for daring to make a living with her sword? Elspeth is hot-headed, quick tempered, and treasures a grudge. That doesn't sound like Herald material to me at all. I know and understand all of the reasons why she's like this, and yes, she's had a hard life, but is it really any harder than Talia's was before Rolan Chose her? Or than Vanyel's even after Yfandes Chose him? Elspeth's childhood was ideal compared to Vanyel's, Talia's, Karal's, or especially Neave's, but they all manage to put their bratty moments behind them. As for her Companion trying to manage her, they *all* do that, they're just not all as, well, ham-handed as Gwena about it. Remember, the backtalk Talia is spared isn't all sweetness, light, and eternal approval. That said, I don't dislike Elspeth as a character, I just find it difficult and less than pleasant to have to see a story through her eyes. I don't buy the idea that she has that she's entirely over the Royal Bratliness. It would have been easier to swallow if she'd occasionally thought about her own actions in less than glowing terms in _Fate_, or if she ever had second thoughts, or considered that she might be at fault. In order to fully enjoy the Winds books, I would have had to grant Elspeth's complete loss of Bratliness, which I couldn't do because she kept seeing every obstacle as a conspiracy to prevent her from having her way. She never once thinks about the reasons for doing anything, just whether or not it's her way. I'm *not* saying that she should have meekly followed Gwena's rather silly predestined Fate, but she could have shown the occasional bit of doubt to convince the reader that she wasn't just being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn. Elspeth is an interesting character, and I prefer her in small parts, like the one she has in _Warning_. I don't think she makes a good Herald, and I think that the fact that her Whites are still markedly different from standard is a way of acknowledging this. She may be a powerful mage, who had to be educated as a Herald to keep her from turning that power against Valdemar, and she may have been the only one who could have gotten the Kaled'a'in in on Valdemar's side, but I just *cannot* see her putting herself out on the kind of limb that Vanyel put himself on. Also, unless you're willing to say that Elspeth is the only Adept-potential mage in the entirety of Valdemar, and that Yfandes and Kellan were also grove born, *why* would she need a grove born Companion for the first two? Especially since Rolan was apparently hockdeep in the plans... -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 21:25:30 -0500 From: oexmann-+AT+-bach.convex.com (Carla Oexmann) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: gwena & elspeth Message-ID: <199506030225.VAA08805-+AT+-bach.convex.com> > From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" > She never once thinks about the > reasons for doing anything, just whether or not it's her way. I'm > *not* saying that she should have meekly followed Gwena's rather silly > predestined Fate, but she could have shown the occasional bit of doubt > to convince the reader that she wasn't just being stubborn for the > sake of being stubborn. Remember in one of the Arrows books when Selenay is arguing against marrying off Elspeth, and she and Talia conclude that it's her rather vague sense of Foresight pushing Selenay to disagree with the marriage proposals ? Couldn't Elspeth be faced with much the same thing ? > Elspeth is an interesting character, and I prefer her in small parts, > like the one she has in _Warning_. I don't think she makes a good > Herald, and I think that the fact that her Whites are still markedly > different from standard is a way of acknowledging this. She may be a > powerful mage, who had to be educated as a Herald to keep her from > turning that power against Valdemar, and she may have been the only > one who could have gotten the Kaled'a'in in on Valdemar's side, but I > just *cannot* see her putting herself out on the kind of limb that > Vanyel put himself on. Didn't she do exactly that when she, Darkwind, and crew went into Hardorn to tackle Anscar ? Remember, she's going willingly into the land of someone who has all kinds of "fascinating" things planned for her. Were Vanyel's motivations ( raw revenge ) truly that praiseworthy ? Ritual disclaimer : My opinion and mine alone ! Convex, as best I can tell, doesn't have opinions, being a corporate entity... Carla Oexmann /\~~~/\ Convex Computer Corp. > < 3000 Waterview Parkway > ^ ^ < P.O. Box 833851 > (_o_) < Richardson, TX U ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 15:16:08 +1000 (EST) From: Julie Vaux To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions' Voices thread Message-ID: <199506030516.PAA00497-+AT+-metz.une.edu.au> Do I get the impression most people are either assuming horses would have baritone voices if they spoke or that Companions all have deep pitched voices if male. Many of the names nominated are male baritones? Admittedly companions are telepathic but what if they're alto or soprano or tenor??? not that michael dorn doesnt have a interesting baritone voice mind you but ... Julie Vaux - Magissa - jvaux-+AT+-metx.une.edu.au ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 01:48:21 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions' Voices thread Message-ID: <199506030548.BAA19295-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Julie Vaux wrote: > Do I get the impression most people are either assuming horses >would have baritone voices if they spoke or that Companions all have deep >pitched voices if male. Many of the names nominated are male baritones? >Admittedly companions are telepathic but what if they're alto or soprano >or tenor??? not that michael dorn doesnt have a interesting baritone >voice mind you but ... I think only Rolan's voice has been discussed, and that's why all the names have been male baritones. I think Yfandes is probably a light alto, and Sayvil is probably a slightly husky alto. Dirk's Companion, whose name has slipped my mind, I haar as a soprano, probably second, not first. Gwena might be a first soprano. She's got that slight hint of I-could-be-a-diva-if-I-tried...:-) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jun 1995 02:05:52 -0500 (EST) From: SilverFire To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Meeting up Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, Jennifer S. Broekman wrote: > Anyone on the North American East Coast want to do a same day raid on > the Forbidden Planet in NYC? > > -jenneke > When and can you be so kind as to give directions 8*) Wind to thy wings and may you get your heart's desire. SilverFire "Why is destiny always beckoning to every PUNK who comes along?" Wolverine _Scorpio Rising_ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 14:30:00 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: gwena Message-ID: <9506031330.AA01169-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> What Jenneke said, in spades. Elspeth just doesn't display many of the characteristics that we are told Heralds usually have (mostly we're told in _Arrows of the Queen_, I think. I prefer to think that Elspeth is a Herald for the same sort of reasons that .... argh! what's her name? Shari? the Healer, Randale's partner .... was a Herald. Something about her was needed, and the only way to make sure that she got either the correct training or the ability to exercise her powers -- or, indeed, to protect her from the vrondi, perhaps? -- was to name her a Herald. WOF SPOILER At least she did the right thing by resigning the Heirship. She'd have made an abysmal ruler. Cheers Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 10:14:24 -0400 (EDT) From: John Maurer To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List Subject: Evil Mind Magic People Message-ID: I always wondered what happened to people with mind magic powers in Valdemar that did NOT have what it takes to be a herald.. (The convo. about Elspeth brings this up poignantly) I had visions about Companions going and kicking in the skulls of anyone with mind magic that would not make a suitable herald. It sort of fits at least Gwenna, and to a degree Yfandes' way of handling problems. Any other thoughts? They all get a homing call to Hardorn? Speaks-Without-Breathing ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 36 ********************************