MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 38 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re:On the subject of Elspeth by "Lisa" 2) Release dates by Vanye-+AT+-aol.com 3) Re: Evil Mind Magic People by "You Called...?" 4) Re: Elspeth as Herald by SBuskirk-+AT+-aol.com 5) Re: Evil Mind Magic People by TamELee-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: Evil Mind Magic People by Anne Cross 7) Re: Evil Mind Magic People by TamELee-+AT+-aol.com 8) Re: slightly off topic (forgive me) by SNESter-+AT+-aol.com 9) Re: Evil Mind Magic People by jah10-+AT+-cornell.edu (Jay A. Howell) 10) Re: Evil Mind Magic People by Anne Cross 11) Re: Evil Mind Magic People by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 12) Re: ElvenBlood Description by Kim Roberts support staff 273525 13) Re: Meeting up by Kim Roberts support staff 273525 14) Re: Companions' Voices by Rosario Holsen-Baker 15) Companions choosing new Heralds by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 10:49:25 EST From: "Lisa" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:On the subject of Elspeth Message-ID: <5A62AF49B9-+AT+-estuary.amrl.odu.edu> Okay, okay. After reading the numerous posts for Elspeth's defense I am going to start at square one. I'm going to re-read all the books again --- starting with the Arrows trilogy. I am not going to read just for Elspeth's personality, I am going to try and dissect the personality exhibited by each Herald and see what happens. Whoever posted (can't remember just now) about us being given this Ideal of what a Herald should be early on in Arrows, is right. So in a week or two (probably more since I'll be out doing field work for a week) I can figure this out. Lisa ...it isn't dying honorably that counts... It's living honorably right to the end. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lisa M. Ramirez ~ ramirez-+AT+-estuary.amrl.odu.edu Applied Marine Research Laboratory ~ Lab: (804) 683-3498 1034 W. 45th St. ~ FAX: (804) 683-5293 Norfolk, VA 23529 ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 13:27:02 -0400 From: Vanye-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Release dates Message-ID: <950604132702_22422612-+AT+-aol.com> For the few intersted I have the dates that Storm Rising and a new book call Fire Rose are due out. Storm Rising has a publication date of Sept. 95 so look for it in the middle of Aug. The Fire Rose is due out in Oct 95. From the book cover I saw this is about a mail order bride, Werewolf and the Great Earthquake in San Fran. at the turn odf the century. These are U.S. dates, Storm Rising also has a Sept. date in the U. K. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 12:53:09 EST From: "You Called...?" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Evil Mind Magic People Message-ID: <106D4814D4-+AT+-stimpy.lakefieldcs.lakefield.on.ca> > What happens to a companion that bonds with a > herald who is later chosen Monarch's own? The bond between the first companion and the herald would still exist, but not in the strength as before. Companions have been known to choose again (usually after their herald dies), could it not happen even if the hearld was alive? The herald and companion would drift apart, perhaps, and as the companion re-chose, the new-forged bond between the new Monarch's Own and the Monarchs Own Companion.... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 17:13:25 -0400 From: SBuskirk-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elspeth as Herald Message-ID: <950604171115_86249819-+AT+-aol.com> I agree with Helen! IMHO, Elspeth didn't have much choice about being a brat--between Hulda and her mother, she was pretty much forced into it. When she was made heir, suddenly every breath she took and every word she spoke was subject to close scrutiny, not only by the entire Council, who felt it was their right and duty to do so, but also by every other Highborn in Haven. Until she abdicated, she was the only Herald (besides her mother) who couldn't pair off as she chose, or even spend her free time with whomever she chose. Remember when the Council had an Official Litter of Kittens because they thought she was getting involved with Skif? Don't know about you guys, but being treated like that would send me screaming for the hills. Not only that, but the only other person in the same situation--her mother--was NOT being treated the same way. The Councillors treated Selenay as an adult they could trust. Elspeth was not considered to be mature enough to make her own decisions, even when she was an adult. (WoC begins when Elspeth is about 26, by my calculations.) Not only that, but none of them completely trust her, either, whether it's because they think she's too young, or they remember the Brat, or they think she's going to take after her father. Until she goes out searching for mages, she is NEVER given the opportunity to be in charge without someone else looking over her shoulder, and she is supposed to be training to make the kind of quick, wise command decisions that she would need to make as Queen. It's her responsibility to learn that, and yet, the first chance she is given to finally learn it, Skif, one of her best friends, keeps trying to take over! Personally I have a lot of respect for Elspeth. Not only did she NOT kill Skif out of sheer frustration, but she was also able to take Darkwind's constructive criticism in a mature way, and she didn't allow HIS acting like a spoiled, jealous brat to keep her from working constructively with him. I don't know that I could have done as much. As for comparing her with others, well, as someone else has pointed out, Skif was a sneak thief before he was Chosen, and Kerowyn still is a mercenary captain. Kris was just ever so slightly arrogant, Selenay ignored her own daughter simply because of Elspeth's physical resemblance to her father, and Keren was so dependant on other people for her emotional stability that she essentially went insane when Ylsa died. Talia, who seems to be the perfect Herald, has a tendency toward severe depression. Let's face it, folks--Heralds are HUMAN. That means that they have the same faults as everyone else, including bad tempers, errors in judgement, and feeling sorry for themselves. The difference between Heralds and everyone else is that Heralds feel a deep-seated need to DO something to help others and are willing to take care of others' needs before their own; they have the ability and the willingness to control their more negative reactions, and they have the Companions to give them support and advice. 'Nuff said. ~Sandi~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 18:08:02 -0400 From: TamELee-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Evil Mind Magic People Message-ID: <950604180801_23249730-+AT+-aol.com> I have never heard of a companion choosing a different Hearald after their first dies. The Companions either die first or at the same time. I can't think of even once that a Companion lost a Herald and didn't die. Sorry had to put my two bits in TamELee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 21:18:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Anne Cross To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Evil Mind Magic People Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jun 1995 TamELee-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > I have never heard of a companion choosing a different Hearald after their > first dies. The Companions either die first or at the same time. I can't > think of even once that a Companion lost a Herald and didn't die. Rolan and Taver both lost their Heralds and bonded to another Herald after. But I agree with the first part. I think it would be more (for someone who is likely to become the Monarch's Own) that the relationship with the Companion that Chooses them is something like the relationship that [SPOILER ALERT] Karal has with Florian. Sort of a friendship, but without the Soul Bond that most Heralds have. Anne Cross across-+AT+-sidwell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 22:39:06 -0400 From: TamELee-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Evil Mind Magic People Message-ID: <950604223904_23402306-+AT+-aol.com> That was totally different they were Grove born. TamELee ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 22:58:23 -0400 From: SNESter-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: slightly off topic (forgive me) Message-ID: <950604225821_86510147-+AT+-aol.com> I totally agree. While I was lucky (all the books were out when I started them) I found Seventh Gate to be rather, well, faster then the others. Almost as if they only wished to finish off the series and get started on the next DragonLance book. Of course, nothing compares to the humer they put in Zifnab/Fizban. My favorite is that bit on Gandalf and Raistlin in Elven Star. 'Not a very snappy dress, but knew a lot about jewelry'? All the allusions had me laughing throughout the series. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 23:19:06 -0500 From: jah10-+AT+-cornell.edu (Jay A. Howell) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Evil Mind Magic People Message-ID: >Rolan and Taver both lost their Heralds and bonded to another Herald >after. But I agree with the first part. I think it would be more (for >someone who is likely to become the Monarch's Own) that the relationship >with the Companion that Chooses them is something like the relationship >that >Karal has with Florian. Sort of a friendship, but without the Soul Bond >that most Heralds have. > > Anne Cross > across-+AT+-sidwell.edu Anne, But that would mean that Karal has been Chosen, which everyone seems to think is Improbable. If you, too, think that Karal has been "Chosen" by Florian, then I will be a happy man. (If you remembed about 6 months back, I proposed that Karal was already/would be chosen by Florian.) Jay ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 01:03:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Anne Cross To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Evil Mind Magic People Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jun 1995, Jay A. Howell wrote: > Anne, > > But that would mean that Karal has been Chosen, which everyone > seems to think is Improbable. > > If you, too, think that Karal has been "Chosen" by Florian, > then I will be a happy man. (If you remembed about 6 months back, > I proposed that Karal was already/would be chosen by Florian.) I don't think Karal's been Chosen, but if you look at the relationship that he has with Florian, I think it must be something very similar to an unbonded Choosing. Yfandes says that if it's necessary for Jisa to get training as a Herald, she will have an unBonded Choosing to get her into the Collegium, but that she will not have a bonded choosing until Taver can bond with her. (When her mother dies.) Karal comes to Valdemar knowing almost nothing about them, and then gets tossed into the middle of a -very- complicated situation. I thinkt he Companions (control-mad beasties that they seem to have become) panicked and did the same sort of thing for Karal as they might have done for Jisa. (Did anyone ever find out if she got an unbonded Choosing or not?) Whether that means Karal will be Chosen in the future is still up in the air. But I don't think he will be. He's too important to Vkandis and the Priesthood to end up a Herald. (Especially with the mortality rates of Heralds!) Anne Cross across-+AT+-sidwell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 01:13:58 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Evil Mind Magic People Message-ID: <199506050513.BAA20085-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Jay A. Howell wrote: >>Rolan and Taver both lost their Heralds and bonded to another Herald >>after. But I agree with the first part. I think it would be more (for Rolan and Taver are both Monarch's Own's Companion. The Companion of the Monarch's Own is an explicit exception to the Herald-dies-Companion-dies rule. See Teren's lectures in AoQ. >>someone who is likely to become the Monarch's Own) that the relationship >>with the Companion that Chooses them is something like the relationship >>that >>Karal has with Florian. Sort of a friendship, but without the Soul Bond >>that most Heralds have. I think it's probably a bit more intense than that, given that it has to substitute for the real thing while the Herald doesn't know he/she's going to become Monarch's Own. While I highly doubt that anything bad happens to the Companion who does the Choosing, I also don't have the foggiest idea what does happen to her/him. I have difficulty imagining that she/he just wanders off and CHooses someone else. After all, it would be hard on both the old and the new Chosen to know that there was another Herald in their Companion's life. Of course, it's always possible that the Companions tamper slightly with relevant memories, but that seems a bit... intrusive... > But that would mean that Karal has been Chosen, which everyone > seems to think is Improbable. > If you, too, think that Karal has been "Chosen" by Florian, > then I will be a happy man. (If you remembed about 6 months back, > I proposed that Karal was already/would be chosen by Florian.) I think it's unlikely that Karal's been Chosen, and here's why: he's got a FireCat. If Vkandis and the Deity granting Companions are the same, there's no reason for Florian to spend time coaching Karal, the FireCat can just be given the information that Karal needs about Companions and the Monarch's Own and so forth. If Vkandis and the Deity are different, it would seem unlikely that the Deity would have a Companion Choose someone who's a True Priest of another Deity. I tend to think that Karal's been Chosen by Altra, and Florian's just along to pass on info (in both directions). He is, after all, a young Companion, and we know that Companions don't usually Choose until they're 10 or older... -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 09:25:50 +0100 (BST) From: Kim Roberts support staff 273525 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ElvenBlood Description Message-ID: On Sun, 4 Jun 1995 URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Mel, its ok, honey, honestly! Looking at the book infront of me,(God how I > love the loan policy at Waldens). Anyway the focus is on 2 dragons in flight > fighting, and in the background there is a landscape with a village and > people milling about. Very Boris, muted colors, yellows and browns. Hope > this helps. > > Blessings to all > Matt J > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > I can't even think straight! -- Tshirt slogan > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > Hi I saw Elvenblood in Dillons at the weekend and the cover on the English version looked terrible. I can't remember exactly as I left the book and ordered it from my local store so I don't pick it up until tommorrow. What I do remember was a women in a purple dress with a dragon in the background, it just does not compare to the cover of Elvenbane which I really liked. Kim. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 09:30:57 +0100 (BST) From: Kim Roberts support staff 273525 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Meeting up Message-ID: On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, Michael Richards wrote: > > Hi everyone > > > > I was just wondering if anyone in the UK would like to meet up one > > weekend over the summer. If you are interested let me know. > > Sounds good to me - what do you want to do, a mass raid on Forbidden > Planet or something? *grin* > > I don't mind what we do. Would Mel and anyone else interested like to come to Oxford. Anyone needing overnight accomodation would be welcomed to stay with me. (That goes for anyone who is ever visiting from the States as well.) I could write to Lyn Belzer ( I think that is who is coming over) to arrange things. How does mid July sound. Kim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 07:59:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions' Voices Message-ID: On Thu, 1 Jun 1995, Sea Witch wrote: > I haven't got the books with me here, so of course I can't think of > the character's name, but I would LOVE to see Julian Sands (_Warlock_) > play the Prince that becomes Elspeth's enemy (Elcarth?) > grrrrrrr...I hate it when I blank out! Anyway, JS is so GREAT at > playing evil! > > Who would you see as Hulda? > > I could see Drew Barrymore as Elspeth. Christian Slater might make > a good Skif. > > So here is my cast so far: > > Rolan's voice = James Earl Jones or Sean Connery > Elcarth (Is that it?) = Julian Sands > Elspeth = Drew Barrymore > Talia = Winona Ryder or Lea Salonga > Skif = Christian Slater > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > | Melyssa Childs | > | FDC Slimearound Ursula **** VP Bad Guys Coalition | > | First Chair Clarinet - FDC Orchestra **** Lyric Soprano - FDC Chorus | > | mlchilds-+AT+-orion.naz.edu | > |----------------------------------------------------------------------| > | RAD Host(ess): If you have any questions just e-mail me! :-) | > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Nah, I don't really think so. Julian Sands is too cuddly to play a bad guy any more. Have you seen him in anything else? 'Cause almost everything he's in, where he's partnered with someone...well, the keyword here is "nuzzling" like a little lost puppy or something. By the way, the person's name was Ancar. --Jaguar (who *really* loves Julian Sands)-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 08:43:07 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Companions choosing new Heralds Message-ID: <199506051343.AA275229787-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> >I have never heard of a companion choosing a different Hearald after their >first dies. The Companions either die first or at the same time. I can't >think of even once that a Companion lost a Herald and didn't die. > >Sorry had to put my two bits in >TamELee The only Companion who chooses another Herald after the loss of his own, if he survives what causes the loss, is the Monarch's Own Companion. And he gets replaced with another Grove born if he doesn't make it. Remember Sayvil told that Yfandes would pine herself to death if Vanyel had succeeded in his own suicide attempt, and their bond was not that old. The Companion of every other Herald who died within the confines of Haven, just as a control situation, also died shortly after the Herald. On the other hand, I think that I read once - I'm not sure in which book but probably AoQ, that the Monarch's Own Herald might even survive the loss of the Companion, and the new Grove-born Monarch's Own Companion then chooses the current Monarch's Own. It just occurred to me that the situation of Herald-Companion bond might be similar to when Randel's love, Shavri ?, opened herself totally by opening her Healing channel to Randel to give him the support he needed to survive a bit longer. She was expected to die immediately following Randel's death. What if the Companions did something similar in order to help their Heralds? We've speculated on the similarity between their bond with the Lifebond. Not only are the Companions bonded by duty but by love as well. They, like their Heralds, will give everything in order to survive every situation, but when their Herald dies, they will try to finish the immediate mission to the point of sacrificing themselves like Yfandes being willing to bring Stefen out of harm's way and to warn the Guard post, but then returning to help Vanyel in facing Leareth. If they survive the final encounter, they will pine themselves away. The reasons for the Monarch's own surviving the loss of his companion might include: their Groveborn and have duties beyond their immediate bond with their Herald (eg. Rolan helping to provide guidance & support to Selenay); unless the death is due to natural causes, whatever has killed the Monarch's own is likely to be threatening to the security of Valdemar, the Companion's survival might be necessary to help keep Valdemar safe; etc. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 38 ********************************