MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 81 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Disabilities in Velgarth by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 2) Re: handicapped/chronically ill by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 3) Re: UK Lackey list meeting by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 4) Re: UK Lackey list meeting by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 5) Re: Help with Tayledras Translation by Scya-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: UK Lackey list meeting by Ian MacDonald 7) Re: Mailing lists by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 8) Re: UK Lackey list meeting by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 9) The ordinary people by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 10) Re: UK Lackey list meeting by Gyrfalcon 11) Re: Mailing lists by Gyrfalcon 12) Re: Disabilities in Velgarth by SBuskirk-+AT+-aol.com 13) Re: UK Lackey list meeting by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 14) Re: Mailing lists by TAMRA SPIELVOGEL 15) Re: Help with Tayledras Translation by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 16) Blues, ordinary folk, and newspapers by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 17) Re:Mediocre Heralds/Handicapped by "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" 18) Re: The ordinary people by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 19) Re: Blues, ordinary folk, and newspapers by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 20) ADMIN: experimental search service by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 21) Mage Storms and Heartstones by EBM 22) Re: Disabilities in Velgarth by Scya-+AT+-aol.com 23) Re: Help with Tayledras Translation by Scya-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 17:59:44 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Disabilities in Velgarth Message-ID: <199507182159.RAA24129-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Starwolf wrote: >(I (jenneke) wrote: >>I don't think the average Herald needs to be at all above average >>intelligence, and we've seen a Herald who wasn't able-bodied. Heralds >>have their Companions and Truth Spell to help them do what we'd do >>with pure intelligence. >Now this I disagree with absolutely. They ride circuit for up to >a year at a time, being judge, jury and executioner, as well as >tax accountant etc. In other words, the queen's presence throughout >Valdemar. An average or stupid herald couldn't handle the job. I think you're vastly overestimating the correlation between intelligence and sense. It doesn't take great intelligence to notice when people are behaving oddly, especially when one has good 'people sense', and it certainly doesn't take great intelligence to round up everyone in a town and question people under Truth Spell when there's been a murder. It doesn't require intelligence to know to ask a town's children who goes where and with whom, just experience with people. >>A stupid Herald wouldn't likely end up in a >>prominent job, but that doesn't mean stupid people don't get Chosen. >>Remember that there was no general outcry when people thought that >>Talia was "simple". >There was no outcry among the Heralds, because they trusted in Rolan >to have chosen well. They realized quickly that Rolan had. No, Kiril thinks something to the effect of that even her fellow Heralds thought she was a little simple, and there was no outcry from the non-Heralds, either, until the rumors of her misusing her Gift were started, and then it was the misuse, not her intelligence, that was questioned. >>>jobs are so demanding. There have been exceptions, which really >>>bothered me, particularly Lore in the second Vanyel book. I never >>>felt he should have been chosen. I don't understand how he was >>>chosen. >>However, he was, so we're sort of obliged to use him as a data point, >>however little we like him... >True. But there was some reason he was chosen, that was given in the >book. I was never terribly satisfied with it. He was a fool, and he >certainly did not display the caring heart. He wasn't a Field Herald, either. >>People with mild Downs can function as normal members of society, and >>people with Downs of all severities tend to be very kind and pleasant >>and happy. I think the ability to interact well with people is much >>more important than pure intelligence for a field Herald, and I don't >>see any reason why someone with mild Downs couldn't fill the job at >>least as well as, say, Lore. >Being pleasant and happy is not the function of a Herald. You must >be able to judge accurately, and while truth spell is useful, it's >human judgement that's more important. You must be able to know when >there is a situation that requires you to intervene, and when it is >best to leave things to the locals. This requires good decision >making skills, usually associated with higher intelligence. That must be why the stereotype of the hopeless genius came from, and the reason why wisdom and intelligence are always separate abilities in roleplaying systems. Sense is *not* correlated with intelligence, and neither is wisdom. Sense, wisdom, and the knowledge of one's own limits are much more useful than intelligence alone in deciding what one should do in any given situation. Vanyel's blinding intelligence didn't tell him that Savil probably had really good reasons for mage-locking books away and Kris's equally blinding intelligence didn't give him the information that Talia's intuition (*sense*, not intelligence) gave her in Hardorn. Randale became a very good king and Herald in spite of being of only mediocre intelligence. We never see any evidence that any of Talia's classmates are above average intelligence. Being pleasant and happy may not be te function of a Herald, but being the type of person that other people trust most certainly is, and that is *not* a function of intelligence. >The companions cannot be asked to compensate for low intelligence. >They are supposed to be a mentor, a helper, not a crutch. Low intelligence or even mild retardation is not an inability to function without a crutch. Maturity, wisdom, and sense are not functions of intelligence. Lack of an above average IQ does not doom one to a life of being unable to make good decisions and take responsibility for them. Your life depends on the sense and decision making ability of many more people of average and below average intelligence than people of above average intelligence. For crying out loud, they put 19 year olds out on circuit alone. Why should the training they give them prepare a 19 year old, but not a more experienced person of below average intelligence? At this point I'm going to stop contributing to this thread on the list unless people other than myself and Starwolf are interested in it. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:03:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: handicapped/chronically ill Message-ID: I know, I'm about 6 days behind on reading these digests, so if someone already brought this up, forgive me--I'm only up to digest 77! I think it was Mel who wrote: BTW--we have talked about handicappers in Velgrath--suppose they have any chronically ill?? May I point out that not all handicaps are the result of birth defects or accidents? Arthritis is a chronic illness (there are many types, from rheumatoid, which my husband got when he was 8 and 1/2 yrs. old, to the degenerative joint disease I was diagnosed with in my late 30s to osteo, which most people associate with old age, to other, lesser-known types). Not to mention MS, Lou Gehrig's Disease, diabetes, some hearing problems, Menieure's (I know that I haven't spelled that right--it involves problems with the inner ear and vertigo), and so on with lots I'm not thinking of. It is true that many with chronic illnesses would not have survived childhood or even juvinile/adult onset for long, particularly those living in more rural areas with less medical care available in a world like Velgarth. Tarma grumbles to herself in a couple of places that nothing could be done for "joint-ache", which sounds to me like a variety of arthritis. "Nothing much could be done about that." Sorry if I sound shrewish--just discovered that we have to alter part of our vacation plans for next week--a place we planned to stay at is not accessible. The only reason we did not find out when we arrived is because my mother happened to be in the vicinity and decided to check it out, luckily. --Barra Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb Harpers have pluck--but don't get strung out.--Barra the Bard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:41:52 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: UK Lackey list meeting Message-ID: <950718224150_35742946-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-18 14:59:10 EDT, you write: >> -Jerry (who's managed (a) to come up with a few snippets of another version >> of The Great Barbecue Song for the music to Winds Four Quarters :-) > >Oh gods, what have I started? :) > >M. > > You should have thought of that before you posted! ::evil grin:: Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gay men and lesbians need a term that would do for us what MS. did for women. -- Herb Moses. Let's stop treating the earth like an ashtray. -- Bette Midler. Why are some people so miserable in their own lives that they must try to control mine? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Harrisburg, PA Gay Pride Festival, July 30, 1995. Resivoir Park. << ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 22:42:04 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: UK Lackey list meeting Message-ID: <950718224145_35742882-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-18 13:37:06 EDT, you write: >> Now what ever gave you that idea? >> >> I think that there are more of us that could use a rest besides our lovely >> listmitress! >> >> Matt > Yeah me for one...,Wonder what they do in Velgarth with >those-who-must-be-kept-in-a-padded-room. (or in my case a cubical. :) ) >We've only seen what 2 cases of insanity, three if you count the >step-father in Arrow's Flight (that was Herald induced) But the others >were niether dangerously insane. We Know what the do with the >non-dangerously insane. They turn them into Heralds! > >Wind to thy Wings, > >--Gyrfalcon I think that this is one of the very few problems that I have with ML, even though most of us read to escape, and unwind -- I have a problem with the fact that we don't see what happens to everyday people,(even though the storm trilogy does seem to be focusing on the blues somewhat) but aside from that, we don't see what happens to the everyday person and the trials and tribulations of their lives, what is crime like?, what happens to the medically needy? etc.? I think that this thread is being discussed on another thread so I will just leave it at that. Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gay men and lesbians need a term that would do for us what MS. did for women. -- Herb Moses. Let's stop treating the earth like an ashtray. -- Bette Midler. Why are some people so miserable in their own lives that they must try to control mine? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Harrisburg, PA Gay Pride Festival. July 30, 1995. Resivoir Park. << ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 00:40:39 -0400 From: Scya-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Help with Tayledras Translation Message-ID: <950719004038_117978661-+AT+-aol.com> Heyla all! I know that I haven't spoken up much but I need help. I have been tasked with finding some Tayledras translations for Clan names for people trying to create personas. Most of them I have been able to find. K'Treva - Falcon, K'Vala - Owl, K'Varda - Raven, K'Sheyna - Hawk. Can anyone tell me what K'Chona and K'Vaia are? One should be Eagle and the other Fox but which is which? I would greatly appreciate the help. Scya-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:54:21 +0100 From: Ian MacDonald To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: UK Lackey list meeting Message-ID: <10184.9507190754-+AT+-davaar.dcs.ed.ac.uk> > body hitting a keyboard. "Good thing we had darts", one of the white > coated men said to the other as they dragged Gyrfalcon's body from the > terminal.> ^^^^^^^ I like it, you should use it for your signature !! If you aren't going to use it can I have it? _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ You never get where you _/ _/_/ _/_/ want to be only where you need to be _/ _/ _/_/ _/ email ism-+AT+-dcs.ed.ac.uk _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/ AN _/ _/ ACDONALD, Edinburgh University, Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 09:05:29 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mailing lists Message-ID: <9507190905.AA02261-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > > I was wondering, how do you start a mailing list? :) > Either find a cooperative site that's got (or is willing to set up) the mailing list software, or run the mailing list software yourself - which means that you need a couple of seperate mail addresses for the mailing list, and the ability to run the mailing list software, which probably means unix. It helps if the site has a permanent (Or at least frequent) mail connection - that obviously affects how soon the mail gets forwarded to the rest of the list. Some (most?) mailing list software lets you control things like welcome-to-the-list postings remotely, but some things (like setting up the list in the first place, and so on) require the system administrator. It *can* be done on a PC, if you don't messing around with the technical stuff - I managed to set the software up using linux (a freeby unix for PCs) - but usually, finding a cooperative mainstream site will work better, since a home site isn't likely to have a very good turnaround time. > Also, has anyone heard the Lovers, Lore and Loss Filk tape yet? > Looks good, but I dunno... > > Someone gave me the Sunkindler Gold hair thong. It really is rather nice. > Next thing you know I'll have a Vale or two in my backyard with a nice > hotspring. Not that we need one today. . . . Oh I don't know - it'd be one way to cool off :-) :-). Hmm.. do you think Velgarth has the equivalent of mailing lists? There must be some way of passing information between the various Shin'a'in (or Tayledras) clans... Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing anything like newspapers or public notice boards - have we seen any ways of speading info apart from heralds on circuit? -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:17:37 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: UK Lackey list meeting Message-ID: <9507190917.AA26882-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > Do you really want to know? FWIW, I thought parts of your > poem/song/whatever scanned to, ummm, the song about lawn worshiping. > (oklahoma weed-whacking masacree?) Probably, that was one of the tunes which was pottering around in my head, but its major inspiration was a tune whose name I can't remember, done by C.W. McCall? The same chappie who sang the theme to "Convoy", anyhow. There's a tune on the same tape, which _might_ be called "Lewis and Clark". Possibly. It's been a long time since I heard it. Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:30:06 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: The ordinary people Message-ID: <9507190930.AA27601-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > I think that this is one of the very few problems that I have with ML, even > though most of us read to escape, and unwind -- I have a problem with the > fact that we don't see what happens to everyday people,(even though the storm > trilogy does seem to be focusing on the blues somewhat) but aside from that, > we don't see what happens to the everyday person and the trials and > tribulations of their lives, what is crime like?, what happens to the > medically needy? etc.? I think that this thread is being discussed on > another thread so I will just leave it at that. > It's not _quite_ the same thread, so I'll chuck in my 2p. The problem with writing stories or novels is that you have to have something for the story to focus on, whether it be a major event, or extraordinary people, or a combination of the two. A story about the ordinary life of an ordinary person just wouldn't be that interesting to read. I know that there are events in everyone's lives which stand out, so if you wanted to write a story about an "everyday" person in Valdemar you would need to focus on such an event. The second problem is that most of that which makes Valdemar Valdemar is centred on the Heralds. Take out the Heralds and their companions, and you are left with a medievally-inspired state which is not all that distinguishable from the "standard" fantasy state. (I'm thinking of Valdemar specifically here, rather than wider Velgarth; it is obviously possible to write stories set in Velgarth which don't involve the Heralds, and Lackey's done so several times, but there have been other "hooks" to clue you in as to the background). So, let's suppose we want to write about an ordinary Valdemar citizen, and some problem which they overcome. And let's suppose further that we want to write this book without involving Heralds as characters. I think, if one found a problem major enough to be interesting to the reader, then the chances of it requiring Heraldic intervention are very good. About the only way you could avoid it would be to have the Heralds specifically not aid the people with the problem, which would be a major glitch in the standard Valdemar background. Of course, you could hang a very good story on Heralds _not_ helping people in need, for some particular reason, but I somehow don't think Misty would go for it. :) 5p worth at least. :) Cheers Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 06:34:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: UK Lackey list meeting Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jul 1995, Ian MacDonald wrote: > > > > body hitting a keyboard. "Good thing we had darts", one of the white > > coated men said to the other as they dragged Gyrfalcon's body from the > > terminal.> > > ^^^^^^^ > > I like it, you should use it for your signature !! > If you aren't going to use it can I have it? > > Take it, Please. --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 06:38:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mailing lists Message-ID: >Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing anything like newspapers >or public notice boards - have we seen any ways of speading info apart >from heralds on circuit? I believe that that's the Bard's jobs, they bring news, as well as entertain. And the clans probally do have a special way of communicating... But they aren't telling us. . Wind to thy wings... --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 08:32:54 -0400 From: SBuskirk-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Disabilities in Velgarth Message-ID: <950719083253_35979309-+AT+-aol.com> Hello everyone! I couldn't help jumping in, here. While I agree that people with Down's Syndrome are kind and caring people, and sometimes have an empathic insight into other's emotional motives, they do have to deal with physical disabilities which would interfere with one of the major requirements for Heralds--to be able to defend themselves and others. One of the responsibilities of a Herald, remember, is to "serve as a war-leader in times of need." That means not only the ability to hack at someone with a sword (and usually win) but also a grasp of tactics and strategy, at least enough to be able to defeat the kind of bandits that prey on border towns. Another thing is--Valdemar simply can't afford to have Heralds who, by their nature, are unsuited for working outside of Haven. The only Heralds who stay at Haven are either retired, teaching, filling special posts (like Kyril, Elcarth and Talia) or have been bound to Haven by special circumstances--like Skif was when Cymry became pregnant. All other Heralds ride circuit, do relay work,go on special covert missions, or are special messengers. Any of the Heralds at Haven who are not retired could fill in in any of those spots if there was need, and any of them could go to war; including, I'd be willing to bet, Rubrik, the half-crippled Herald from Storm Warning. All Heralds start out being capable, both physically and mentally, whatever comes later. They have to be able to read other people, and most important, they have to be able to think and make decisions independently, so they can't be used or influenced by others. Remember, not all Heralds can perform the second-stage Truth Spell, and it only works when someone actually knows the truth. In all other cases, the Heralds have to rely on their brains and their instincts, so both have to be pretty good. I'll get off my soapbox now--it's someone else's turn. ~Sandi~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 12:44:32 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: UK Lackey list meeting Message-ID: <9507191244.AA04232-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > Jerry, when will your version of the great barbacue song be ready for > public humil - uh, consumption? > > Erica > It should be ready for public ridicule^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hconsumption in a day or so :-). It's got about 5 verses so far, but the lengths don't quite come out right - I'll have to listen to the tape again and see what the originals structure is. Great Art it isn't, but it's not too bad for a first attempt. Maybe :-) :-). -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 95 08:46:19 EDT From: TAMRA SPIELVOGEL To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mailing lists Message-ID: <9507191252.AA00897-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Jerry was wondering about the passing on of information by means other than Heralds on circut and if I remember correctly this is probably the one thing Ancar was good for. Remember those towers with the mirrors? Valdemar started using them some time between Arrows and Winds trilogy. Beyond that I don't seem to recall anything else beyond the local town storyteller type person who records what the Heralds say for those who can't make it into town when the Heralds are there. Tamra S. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Tamra Ann Spielvogel A hotline consultant's motto: Letts Hall #205, The American U. I'm not god but I'll gladly 4400 Mass. Ave., NW connect you. ;) Washington, DC 20016-8104 E-mail:ts3763a -+AT+-american.edu ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 6:23:36 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Help with Tayledras Translation Message-ID: <950719062336.20606c6c-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> >Heyla all! >I know that I haven't spoken up much but I need help. I have been tasked >with finding some Tayledras translations for Clan names for people trying to >create personas. Most of them I have been able to find. >K'Treva - Falcon, K'Vala - Owl, K'Varda - Raven, K'Sheyna - Hawk. >Can anyone tell me what K'Chona and K'Vaia are? One should be Eagle and the >other Fox but which is which? I would greatly appreciate the help. >Scya-+AT+-aol.com Isn't there a glossary of terms in the back of Vows and HOnor? Have you tried that? Where did the terms K'Chona and K'Vaia occur? I don't remember seeing those. Which book are they in? StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 6:30:42 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Blues, ordinary folk, and newspapers Message-ID: <950719063042.20606c6c-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> As far as showing ordinary folk, I certainly wouldn't consider the Blues we've seen ordinary. The ones in Storm Warning seem to be the scientists of their time. That's hardly an ordinary bunch. I think we've been given glimpses of "ordinary", or non-heraldic people occassionally, as in the beginning of the Vanyel books, or when Van visits home with Stef. Or when he brings home Tashir. But it would make a pretty good story to see an ordinary person, faced with an extraordinary situation, who either can't or won't get the help of a herald. Like being out on the border, with your herald just injured, and the replacement a couple of days off. But the problem must be resolved now, or else... News in Valdemar: Wasn't one of Randale's inovations that every child should be taught to read so that they don't become prey to every wild rumor brought by a trader? If that's been kept up, why are there no printing presses, or at least some news sheets or something? Missives of some sort? One clue that the practice is kept up might be that Talia's brothers were taught to read, although she was only taught because of her brother's insistence and father's indulgence. Or would holderkin men need to know reading and writing skills to survive? What are holderkin anyway? Are they farmers? Or just sheepherders? We know they have sheep, but I don't recall any mention of farming when we first met Talia. Hmmm. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:24:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Barbara G. Jacob-McDowell" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Mediocre Heralds/Handicapped Message-ID: Whew, I'm finally caught up! I think that when a person is Chosen, (s)he possesses necessary qualities and the caring heart (as someone so eloquently put it) *or the CAPABILITY of attaining them*. After all, wasn't one Herald not Chosen until he was an adult, married, well-settled in his craft? Perhaps it took him until then to be ready to be Chosen. While most Heralds come/are drawn to Haven at a fairly young age, when it is pretty easy for them to be taught/molded (remember Talia and her yearmates being told that by the time they finish their training they will be "unable to give less than their best in any situation"? (I know, that is an ideal, but the mindset to want to do no less is partly established in that training and atmosphere)--what about "late bloomers"? (Which, with no offense meant to any UK readers, and being a late bloomer myself as well as a former teacher, is one reason I am skeptical about testing kids at say 12 or 14 and thereby determining whether they are suitable material for college/university preparation--and if you want to discuss this issue, let's do it privately and not take up listwidth) It is part of human nature to change and develop...in one way or another...and we often make choices and act on the basis of our experiential backgrounds. Someone who would not be a good prospect as a Herald when (s)he was a teenager or in his/her 20s might indeed be an excellent Chosen 10 or 20 yrs. after that. Conversely, someone who may have seemed to be a perfect Chosen initially might later not reach potential, or undergo some drastic change, as for example Van's first love (is a problem in recalling characters' names a contagious virus transmitted along with the digest? 8^) ) who must've been very promising at first, until he became consumed by that family feud which ended so disastrously. And some character flaws do not go away despite good intentions, such as what'shername's tendency to gossip and ask the Ambassadors with Elspeth all those rude questions. We have been most acquainted with exceptional Heralds, you know; even some of the secondary characters, by dint of their positions both in the Collegium (Elcarth, Albrich) and in the lives of those around them, are very significant personalities (Teren, Keren, Kris, etc.). We really haven't seen many "mediocre" Heralds, however defined, but in any group, some will be outstanding, some less so...for a variety of reasons. On the subject of visble handicapped people in Velgarth: Aside from the fact that many seriously ill/injured/handicapped people would not survive long, especially at a distance from good medical care, my opinion on this is that they would not be very visible, except maybe as beggars for those who are poor and in a city. Until recently, handicapped people were not all that visible *here*. The prevailing attitude was "out of sight, out of mind", except for the okay times to think about, pity, (and donate for) them, like the telethons on Labor Day. Before you power up your flamethrowers, let me hasten to add that we DO need to contribute and support research and support facilities. But SEEING someone with a physical handicap was different; it was scarey and threatening and painful. Some people still feel that way, as if it is catching. Think about all the physical barriers and the problems with just getting around. (My husband's favorite is a curb cut...with a phone pole right in the middle of it. Great for wheelchairs....) When he was in a wheelchair, and working downtown, before the curb cuts, he would wheel his chair across a street, and thank God that he was able to stand up long enough to lift the chair onto the sidewalk and sit in it to go on his way. He hated winter--he always got all dirty and wet from slush and mud on the wheels, since he propelled it with his hands. --Barra Everything will perish save love and music.--Scots Gaelic proverb Harpers have pluck--but don't get strung out.--Barra the Bard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 11:40:58 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The ordinary people Message-ID: <199507191540.LAA24948-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Melanie Dymond Harper wrote: >>I think that this is one of the very few problems that I have with ML, even >>though most of us read to escape, and unwind -- I have a problem with the >>fact that we don't see what happens to everyday people,(even though the storm >>trilogy does seem to be focusing on the blues somewhat) but aside from that, >>we don't see what happens to the everyday person and the trials and >>tribulations of their lives, what is crime like?, what happens to the >>medically needy? etc.? I think that this thread is being discussed on >>another thread so I will just leave it at that. >The problem with writing stories or novels is that you have to have something >for the story to focus on, whether it be a major event, or extraordinary >people, or a combination of the two. A story about the ordinary life of an >ordinary person just wouldn't be that interesting to read. I know that there >are events in everyone's lives which stand out, so if you wanted to write >a story about an "everyday" person in Valdemar you would need to focus on >such an event. >The second problem is that most of that which makes Valdemar Valdemar is >centred on the Heralds. Take out the Heralds and their companions, and you are >left with a medievally-inspired state which is not all that distinguishable >from the "standard" fantasy state. >So, let's suppose we want to write about an ordinary Valdemar citizen, and >some problem which they overcome. And let's suppose further that we want to >write this book without involving Heralds as characters. I don't think one would have to leave the Heralds out entirely in order to focus on 'ordinary' people. Misty could, for example, tell us more about life in Haven by using the POV of a shopkeeper, say the owner of the Compass Rose. Heralds wouldn't be absent entirely, but the perspective would be different and we'd learn different things. >I think, if one found a problem major enough to be interesting to the reader, >then the chances of it requiring Heraldic intervention are very good. About >the only way you could avoid it would be to have the Heralds specifically >not aid the people with the problem, which would be a major glitch in the >standard Valdemar background. Of course, you could hang a very good story >on Heralds _not_ helping people in need, for some particular reason, but I >somehow don't think Misty would go for it. :) I don't think Heraldic intervention requires a Heraldic focus. It might be quite interesting to watch Heraldic doings through the eyes of a commoner non-Herald. _Storm Warning_ intimately involves Heralds, but the focus is on two non-Heralds, though they're hardly commoners anymore. I'd like to hear, for example, the story of Dirk's Choosing through one of his sisters' eyes, or the story of Talia's disappearance through the eyes of one of her half-siblings. I found the bits of Stefen's story before he was picked up by a Bard fascinating, maybe we could hear about Neave's journey from that horrible bar to being Chosen. In all of these, Heralds aren't absent, but they aren't the nearly sole focus, either. Also, with the effort going into handling the mage storms, are circuits still being ridden? Wouldn't a story about how the people in a Border village handle the upheaval of the storms when their circuit Herald is miles away be interesting? After all, Heralds are only human, and circuits are quite large. If a circuit's Herald is in one village when a child stumbles into a mouse that was in one of those circles in another, what happens? How does the village react when the Herald gets there, after yet another mage storm, with the news that things are going to get worse before they get better, and that they're not the only ones faced with the crisis and will consequently not be getting the kind of help and reassurance they've been praying for? -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 16:23:08 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Blues, ordinary folk, and newspapers Message-ID: <9507191623.AA07042-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > Wasn't one of Randale's inovations that every child should be taught > to read so that they don't become prey to every wild rumor brought > by a trader? If that's been kept up, why are there no printing > presses, or at least some news sheets or something? Missives of > some sort? One clue that the practice is kept up might be that > Talia's brothers were taught to read, although she was only taught > because of her brother's insistence and father's indulgence. Hmm. I suppose that the book Talia was reading could be circumstancial evidence of the existance of printing presses somewhere offstage - If books were still hand copied, then (a) I'd expect to see scriptoria somewhere to produce them, and (b) I'd expect books to be much rarer - and far more expensive - Libraries are one thing, but they'd probably be too rare for them to be available to children. But we don't have much evidence either way - I think some of the old chronicles are described as being hand written, but they're more like one-off official documents, rather than mass circulation stuff, so it's unlikely they'd be printed anyway. -Jerry -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 19:11:52 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey Subject: ADMIN: experimental search service Message-ID: <9507191811.AA07644-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> There's now an experimental search facility for the list archives -- both pre- and post-list-move -- available through the Web at http://www.herald.co.uk/~mel/search_form.html I promise nothing. If it doesn't break too easily I'll move it across into the main batch of list-related Web pages. Note that you can also search the archives by mail: mailing to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk with message search mercedes-lackey keyword does the trick (I think) Cheers Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 12:47:44 -0600 From: EBM To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Mage Storms and Heartstones Message-ID: <01HT2C4HU7769BXMC4-+AT+-SKISAS.USask.CA> Has anyone wondered what is happening to the heartstone that Vanyel and co. discovered in Lineas. After all the first thing that Firesong is worried about when they have magestorms coming through is shielding the Heartstone. Also, now that mages aren't driven mad in Velgarth, even if the heartsone is buried under the old palace what's to stop some power hungry mage from wandering in and discovering it. Well, those are my thoughts for now. (Wow, two posts in one day, I think that's probably a record for me.) Later, Gene ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:49:03 -0400 From: Scya-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Disabilities in Velgarth Message-ID: <950719144850_36190609-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-18 17:05:52 EDT, you write: >Thinking about it, I haven't seen many fantasy societies where magic can >do the sort of micro-level things which would be needed to fix chromosomal >defects. Um, let's see. > > Mel: The one series I can think of id MZB's Darkover because their crystals allowed them to see down to the genetic level. Scya ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 14:52:35 -0400 From: Scya-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Help with Tayledras Translation Message-ID: <950719145228_36190685-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-19 10:10:41 EDT, you write: >Isn't there a glossary of terms in the back of Vows and HOnor? Have you >tried that? Where did the terms K'Chona and K'Vaia occur? I don't remember >seeing those. Which book are they in? > >StarWolf I have found the Glossary but they are not in there that I can find. They are, however, seen on the map in the front of the Winds books as functioning vales. Scya ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 81 ********************************