MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 88 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: List?!? -Reply by Ian MacDonald 2) Re: Lovers Lore & Loss by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 3) Re: List?!? by Ilta Tuulia Adler 4) Re: Lovers Lore & Loss by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 5) SF. Written by nomib-+AT+-chem.psu.edu (Naomi) 6) Re: SF. Written by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 7) Re: List?!? by Gyrfalcon 8) Re: SF. Written by Gyrfalcon 9) member list by EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com 10) Steeleye Span (Was: Lovers, Lore, and Loss) by heb4-+AT+-cornell.edu (H.E. Blatt) 11) RE: SF. Written by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 12) Re: Lovers Lore & Loss by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 13) Re: Lovers Lore & Loss by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 14) Re: Lovers Lore & Loss by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 15) Villains by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 16) Re: Lovers Lore & Loss by Vivian Choh 17) Advert for STORM RISING! by hart-+AT+-best.com 18) Nonhumans being chosen by Moriana-+AT+-aol.com 19) Re: Steeleye Span by Moriana-+AT+-aol.com 20) Re: SF. Written by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:11:05 +0000 From: Ian MacDonald To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: List?!? -Reply Message-ID: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's summertime and the living is easy. And most students are on vacation and not using their E-mail accounts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not everyones on vacation, I have to work over the summer to pay the rent etc. Just as well I have email !!! Ian Mac -+AT+-work ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:51:15 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovers Lore & Loss Message-ID: <9507260851.AA02393-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > Who are Firebird? I assume that they're the distributors > of music based on Misty's work. If that's the case, what is their address? > Could anyone also give me a quick review of the CD? Are there any others? > Thanks for taking the time. There are a number of titles around; some are available on tape or CD, some only on tape. CDs include _Shadowstalker_ (songs of Vanyel's time) and _By the sword_, though that's not a Misty written one. For a couple of reviews on some of the other titles, have a look at http://www.portal.com/~jerry/lackey/lackey_reviews.html (More reviews/comments are welcome! hint! hint! :-) ). Firebird have a home page under construction at http://www.usa.net/firebird but there's not a lot there yet. [The obvious address www.firebird.com belongs to a completely different company :-).] The address is Firebird Arts & Music inc, P.O.Box 14875, Portland Oregon 97214 USA. Phone (503) 239-9941, fax (503) 232-2706. -Jerry -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:02:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Ilta Tuulia Adler To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: List?!? Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Gyrfalcon wrote: > > Sees what you know... Some of us students have to work for a living. > and... I don't get the joke... Howcome I never get the joke? Could > somebody explain that joke to me? > > --Gyrfalcon I rush to assure I was not out to offend anyone. I'm both a student and working this summer. I've just noticed over the years that as summer approches students who have e-mail tend to go home and not have e-mail. Of course, as home computers and modems become the rule rather than the exception these things do change.> Ilta -------------------------------------------------------------- Mushrooms taste good on burgers, but they won't raise the dead -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 6:05:06 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovers Lore & Loss Message-ID: <950726060506.2060d51b-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> Firebird's kinda bad about that. I had some forewarning from people on this list, so I wasn't too suprised. I "purchased" (in other words, was charged for) 2 CDs (ShadowStalker and Lovers, Lore, & Loss) in January, when I ordered them. I received ShadowStalker in late May, Lovers etc in early July! So I basically paid for stuff six months in advance. If they don't have what you order in stock, they still take your money, and then send you the stuff when they have it in stock again. They give you no discount for it, which is the part that really ticked me off - let's face it, if there's a $2 discount for pre-ordering a CD that hasn't been produced yet, shouldn't there be some discount if they take your money six months before they can send your merchandise? At $17 a CD, anything helps! Oh well. They are the only source for this music, and the music is exactly the kind of stuff I LOVE to listen to. So I'm kinda stuck. On a related topic, is Steeleye Span or Tempest available on any other label besides Firebird? StarWolf ---------------------------------------------- On Mon, 24 Jul 1995 Moriana-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Has anyone heard the latest tape from Firebird? Is it even out? I am SO PISSED OFF at Firebird. They've charged my credit card for the damned thing and NO TAPE to be seen. I already called them and they said they were just sending them out - that was almost 2 weeks ago and I paid extra to have it sent first-class mail. What the hell?! ANyone else have this problem? Rhonda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:20:35 -0400 From: nomib-+AT+-chem.psu.edu (Naomi) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: SF. Written Message-ID: <199507261420.KAA14060-+AT+-portal.chem.psu.edu> Has anyone been following the Lackely thread on SF.written recently? The jist of it is that some people think she uses too much sexual violence. My first thought was what? but then I sat down and thought. Vanyel getting raped. Talia, Kethry _and_ Tarma, Nyara(sp?), etc. in just about every book somthing happens, and often it is a major character. I never really noticed how much there was, probably because when I reread books, I often do it in sections, and skip those parts. When I re-read Magic's Price, I usually put it down between the forming of the heartstone and Savil's death. I never really thought why, I just did. Any thoughts? Naomi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:37:02 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SF. Written Message-ID: <9507261437.AA00128-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > Has anyone been following the Lackely thread on SF.written > recently? The jist of it is that some people think she uses too much > sexual violence. My first thought was what? but then I sat down and > thought. Vanyel getting raped. Talia, Kethry _and_ Tarma, Nyara(sp?), > etc. in just about every book somthing happens, and often it is a major > character. I never really noticed how much there was, probably because > when I reread books, I often do it in sections, and skip those parts. When > I re-read Magic's Price, I usually put it down between the forming of the > heartstone and Savil's death. I never really thought why, I just did. > I think some people are being thrown because she's actually giving reasons for violence, rather than just having random acts of violence scattered through the books. Most of it has actually been necessary for the character's development; the exception being Vanyel. I never really saw why she needed to have Vanyel raped (I'll be happy to find out if someone can provide a reasonable explanation). Talia was raped as part of a long session of torture; in that context, it's just another way of breaking someone's spirit. There's no sexual thrill involved (at least not for Ancar). Tarma was raped and left for dead as part of the conquest of her Clan; I suspect all of the women of the Clan were raped before being killed. It would have looked strange, to me at least, and given the quasi-medieval setting, if those two had _not_ been raped. I don't think she's using sexual violence as an end in itself. I think she's just considered what would probably happen to a person who was captured and tortured, or about to be killed. Yes, OK, it probably sets some people's teeth on edge. Cheers Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 13:57:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: List?!? Message-ID: > I rush to assure I was not out to offend anyone. I'm both a student and > working this summer. I've just noticed over the years that as summer > approches students who have e-mail tend to go home and not have e-mail. > Of course, as home computers and modems become the rule rather than the > exception these things do change. > > Ilta You'll have to work harder than that to offend anybody on this list. Believe me I've been here for what 3 mo + and I still havn't managed it yet... I think. No offense was taken, just there are alot of students who still have 'net accounts during summer... Of course there are alot more during the regular semesters. Oh well. Wind to thy wings, --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:38:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SF. Written Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Naomi wrote: > Has anyone been following the Lackely thread on SF.written > recently? The jist of it is that some people think she uses too much > sexual violence. My first thought was what? but then I sat down and > thought. Vanyel getting raped. Talia, Kethry _and_ Tarma, Nyara(sp?), > etc. in just about every book somthing happens, and often it is a major > character. I never really noticed how much there was, probably because > when I reread books, I often do it in sections, and skip those parts. When > I re-read Magic's Price, I usually put it down between the forming of the > heartstone and Savil's death. I never really thought why, I just did. > > Any thoughts? > > Naomi > > I always found it to be a device to show that a character is vunerable as well as strong. They do have weak points etc. Also there is no "easier" way of setting a reader against an "Enemy" than rape. Misty's main characters are very easy to like, and very easy to identify with. A literary rape leaves the reader shocked, and (I don't know how deeply you get drawn into the stories but for me it seems like I'm actually witnessing it) it also puts through a sense of violation. I absolutely despised Ancar, and Falconsbane during the first through nth reading, but then again, I throw myself into the story. Wind to thy wings, --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:47:11 -0400 From: EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: member list Message-ID: <950726154534_123518757-+AT+-aol.com> Hi my name is Eric and I am new to america online and the list. I am not sure if this will go through or not. Anyway I am a member of QO and would love to talk to anyone privately or publicly about lackey or my favorite character, Vanyel. My e-mail address is EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:35:40 -0400 From: heb4-+AT+-cornell.edu (H.E. Blatt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Steeleye Span (Was: Lovers, Lore, and Loss) Message-ID: > >On a related topic, is Steeleye Span or Tempest available on any other >label besides Firebird? > >StarWolf I bought mine from a local record store...Most of their stuff is now put out by Shanachie (or Sanachie...can't remember which). I had to specially order them, but the people were rather nice and took a couple of dollars off the price of most of their CD's. Portfolio, Tempted and Tried, and Now We Are Six are the ones I picked up this way. Elizabeth. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:11:02 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: SF. Written Message-ID: <950726141102.2060d51b-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> > Has anyone been following the Lackely thread on SF.written >recently? The jist of it is that some people think she uses too much >sexual violence. My first thought was what? but then I sat down and >thought. Vanyel getting raped. Talia, Kethry _and_ Tarma, Nyara(sp?), >etc. in just about every book somthing happens, and often it is a major >character. I never really noticed how much there was, probably because >when I reread books, I often do it in sections, and skip those parts. When >I re-read Magic's Price, I usually put it down between the forming of the >heartstone and Savil's death. I never really thought why, I just did. >Any thoughts? >Naomi I always get to the part where Vanyel rides out against Leareth, and then skip to where Vanyel dies. That part doesn't bother me. The rape bothers me, and it is fairly graphic - not the act(s) themselves, but the scene is set and the actions are clearly defined enough that I can picture it. And I'd rather not. The other such events, like Talia, didn't really bother me. At that point in Talia's story, she is undergoing tremendous tortures of body and soul, and rape is just another part of it. There's no... special malice I suppose. I don't mean there's no malice on Ancar's part, just nothing particularly special about the rape. Gee that sounds so callous! I think it's in White Gryphon, where the "bad" guy is abusing his victims. That sent a far uglier feeling down my spine than the simple rape of Talia. There was far more evil in these actions, than that character portrayed anywhere else. At that point he was an evil genius. Later he degenerated into a whiny, pathetic sort of villain. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 17:26:58 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovers Lore & Loss Message-ID: <950726172621_41370750-+AT+-aol.com> Hi Everyone! Matt said: <> I wasn't in the shot- if I had, I'd be the one hitting Mike Jerrick over and over with blunt objects . . . for those of you who DON'T get the Sci-Fi channel- this guy hosts a show "all about" SF and F, but somehow always has an attitude of "Hey, lookie me- I'm dealing with GOOFBALLS who really READ this stuff!" . . .::sigh:: Moving to a Misty topic: Would anyone here be a filker enough to have somehow transcribed "Web of Light" from _Shadowstalker_?? I am dying to play that on my psaltery at cons, but am a boob when it comes to transcribing music . . . .unless I spend hours doing it note for note . . .::sigh:: Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 17:35:54 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovers Lore & Loss Message-ID: <950726173547_41377219-+AT+-aol.com> Hi Paul! Hi Everone! The music on this CD is Filk- sort of folk music that has lyrics that eprtain to SF or F books, movies, etc- some of it is music taken from other songs, with a parody for words . . .some is totally original music and wordings . . I've said it before, filk is the sort of music that you will either really like or really hate! -grin- OK, for L,L & L- the music is based on evens in the last 2 books of the Arrows Trilogy- mostly the 3rd book, to be honest . . .it is sung well, and has decent music behind it- but is unmistakably filk; not "regular" music trying to be filk . . . Firebird is a company that sells almost anything Mercedes lackey has written, toys, shirts, mugs and other stuff devoted to Misty's worlds- and has almost all her filk on tape . . . . . they also carry other filk, other books, and music by Clannad, and other, similar groups . . .there is an 800 number: 1-800-752-0494 But that might only be for the USA . . . . . there is another number: 503-239-9941 but that is a toll number . . . . The address is: Firebird Arts and Music of Oregon, Inc P.O. Box 14785 Portland, OR 97214 OR- try http: //usa.net/firebird <> They will be happy to send you a paper catalogue if you ask! Some folk have had delays in shipping tapes and CD's, but I have to admit, I have had great service with them- and I live in NY and they are based in Oregon . . . . the only thing you have to wait a while for are the handmade Companions and Firelizards . . and in my MOST humble opinions . . .go to a con and buy one- they are really not the nicest I have seen out there! :) Not working for Firebird, but a happy customer . . . Anne annes3832-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 17:37:40 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovers Lore & Loss Message-ID: <950726173706_41380804-+AT+-aol.com> Hi All! Sorry Jerry, for repeating everything you said . . . .my mailer just sent the email you wrote to me AFTER I replied to the other one . . . . Anne, the repentant . . . .. :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:52:46 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Villains Message-ID: <950726145246.2060d51b-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> Speaking of Villains: I was reading what people where saying in SF.Written and I'm kinda in agreement with the part about Villains. The complaint was that Lackey writes whimpy villains. I'll have to say that's true. Ma'ar was evil, but we barely see him. All his other incarnations are less evil, and more mad. Mad makes an interesting villain, but crazy people are seldom crafty (least not in fiction). As I've said before, Misty seems to have a real white-hat/black-hat mentality. However, as someone said over in SF.WRITTEN, her books are frequently on the juvenile shelf, she knows this, and is trying to make a point with those kids who read her stuff. Still, even as a young adult, I preferred my villains more villanous, and my heros with a little less perfection. StarWolf (who realizes she's essentially responding to her own post, but is bored out of her mind right now!!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:38:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Vivian Choh To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lovers Lore & Loss Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, Jerry Cullingford wrote: > (More reviews/comments are welcome! hint! hint! :-) ). Ah! the perfect opening for my next attempt to extol the literary virtues of another Canuck ('though that's not the reason why I like his stuff!)... Has anyone read stuff (GAWD, the concise scientific terminology is just leaking out today!) by Charles De Lint?? Did anyone like it? Most of his books are what Terri Windling (a fantasy editor and artist too, I think) calls "urban fantasy". In his stories, the faeries, bodachs, goblins, etc. co-exist alongside with the rest of us, but only those who are special (are magic/see magic/believe in magic) can see them. In his latest two (I could be/am probably mistaken - I really haven't been keeping track) books, he's made a change from events taking place in Ottawa to a North American city called Newford. (For some reason, I think it's supposed to be near Seattle...). Many of the characters that we "meet" in Newford are artists, usu. painters of some sort, although he also writes about musicians and buskers and the homeless. (In fact, one of his main characters, Jilly Coppercorn, was a street-kid, but became a respected artist). The first of his "Newford" books, called "Dreams Underfoot", consists of a bunch of stories taken from the perspective of several of these artists. Some of the stories were really sad; I'll admit it! One of'em brought a tear to my eye, but overall, the book gave me a very good feeling...The book is such that it makes you want to live there and experience the stuff (there's that word again) that goes on, not only the fantastical incidences, but also the friendships, sense of community etc. (I wonder if that's saying that basically I'm a loser and have no friends...) The second book was a novel (not a collection of short stories like "Dreams Underfoot") called "Memories and Dreams", but this time there were two central characters and some of the other Newford characters were seen. Some parts of this book also made me sad but again I really liked it, sadness notwithstanding. (I wonder if that's saying that I'm a loser, have no friends and am an emotional masochistic ;) ). Anyways, I guess that's why I really like these books! No, no, not because they make me sad, but because they make me FEEL (sadness, wonder etc). Or maybe I'm just an emotional wimp! They also make me feel FRUSTRATED because the descriptions of the paintings and other works of art by the Newford artists are so good that they MAKE ME WANT TO SEE THEM, BUT THERE AREN'T ANY PICTURES! ;( Anyways, does anyone else agree? Jerry, if nobody agrees with me, then please avoid sticking this in the review pages. Actually, I'm not really too sure that I should be posting this at all (read: not sure that I want this posted in the review pages), but I'm curious as to whether anybody else has read Charles De Lint's books. Oh well, I guess I'll have to rely on your good taste and judgement.... :) Vivian Choh bi189-+AT+-torfree.net v.choh-+AT+-utoronto.ca "I am all that I claim to be. I simply have not claimed all that I am." - M. Lackey, "Oathbreakers" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:52:10 -0700 From: hart-+AT+-best.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Advert for STORM RISING! Message-ID: <199507262352.QAA00459-+AT+-shell1.best.com> Just got the latest issue of MZB's Fantasy Magazine and inside the front cover AND on the back cover is a full page DAW advert for Storm Rising (and a blurb for Storm Warning as "also available). I'll quote the stuff about Storm Rising. "Mysterious mage storms are wreaking havoc on Valdemar, Karse, and all the kingdoms of the west, and both Valdemar's Heralds and Karse's Sunpriests struggle to marshal their combined resources in order to protect their realms from these devastating and spell-fueled onslaughts. Unless Valdemar and Karse can locate and destroy the creator of the storms, they may see their entire world demolished in a final magical holocaust. And when Karal, the young Karsite envoy to the court of Valdemar is accused of collusion with the enemy, a dangerously explosive situation ensues, a situation whose only hope of defusion is through the personal intervention of Solaris, the High Priestess and ruler of Karse." "Jacket Art by Jody A. Lee" "DAW book #1000" "Original Hardcover Edition: 0-88677-660-0/$21.95 ($28.99 in Canada)" Cool -- it sounds like we're going to see something of Solaris in this volume! I'm hoping to hear a bit more about how Talia and Solaris got to be friends in the first place. The cover looks nice, although the ad is in black and white so I can't see what the colors are. Solaris is probably the person in the middle (she's holding a Sun sceptor and has a large Sun above her head), with Karal and *two* companions (who is the second one??) looking on. I guess I'll have to go ahead and place my order with Future Fantasy tonight.... --tamra H. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:55:26 -0400 From: Moriana-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Nonhumans being chosen Message-ID: <950726195517_41482273-+AT+-aol.com> With regards to nonhumans being Chosen: Well, a Choosing is different than just a bonding, after all. You are CHOSEN to defend something, and people from outside Valdemar have been Chosen (Alberich and Kero, for two) after all. Being a Herald is far more than being bonded. :) And far more than defending Valdemar, in one sense. A Herald defends his beliefs and values wherever they are challenged, to his knowledge, anyway. How MANY Heralds run off and do this sort of thing all over Velgarth? None, that we know of. . .but being guardian spirits and all, if a Companion or their Chosen knew of such a trouble or a problem, well, I'd like to think they'd go off and help. Of course, I am someone who would make a bloody awful Herald, so I suppose its just a romantic viewpoint I guess. :) Sorry if I sound vindictive, but I'm having some Male problems once again. Donna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 20:02:38 -0400 From: Moriana-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Steeleye Span Message-ID: <950726200200_41484492-+AT+-aol.com> They can sometimes be found in record stores, as can most Loreena McKennit, Enya, and folk singers. . .but I've definetly seen Steeleye in the stores before, and Loreena McKennit (one of my favorite singers. . .) Donna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 12:09:39 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Cc: kerry_mealing-+AT+-il.us.swissbank.com Subject: Re: SF. Written Message-ID: <9507270209.AA06976-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Naomi wrote: > Has anyone been following the Lackely thread on SF.written > recently? The jist of it is that some people think she uses too much > sexual violence. My first thought was what? but then I sat down and > thought. Vanyel getting raped. Talia, Kethry _and_ Tarma, Nyara(sp?), > etc. in just about every book somthing happens, and often it is a major > character. I never really noticed how much there was, probably because > when I reread books, I often do it in sections, and skip those parts. When > I re-read Magic's Price, I usually put it down between the forming of the > heartstone and Savil's death. I never really thought why, I just did. > > Any thoughts? Delurking for the first time. I've been following the thread on SF as well, with, I have to admit, a little annoyance. A few thoughts, in no particular order (and this is not directed at you Naomi, but some of the people on SF): I've seen more than a few posts on SF since the thread started along the lines of "Oh, I never thought of that before - gee, that's just terrible." How intrusive can it be when people can make posts like that? Yes, Misty does have some sexual violence in most of her books.. but there are a number of caveats to that: - Most of her books span quite a period of time. Van was brutally gang-raped. But this is the only time I remember, over the course of about 20 or 30 years of his life.. Similar arguments can sort of be made for other characters. - The books she writes are high fantasy, dark, epic adventures.. not everything can be sweetness & light in such a setting. - The characters depicted are heralds, or at least of similar mentality, meaning that it's their job to deal with dangerous situations. Odds are, bad things -will- happen to them at some time in their lives. A lot of them are in war zones, atrocities do happen in such places (not all such are sexual, but how much of that is simply that we as a society don't want to hear & victims are too ashamed to speak..) - People in general (and yes, this is a sweeping generalization most likely inappropriate to the current audience) are better at dealing with run-of-the-mill violence than sexually related violence. In many cases, they simply don't want to hear about it. Yes, Vanyel got raped - but throughout the course of the trilogy he also go stabbed, wounded lots of times, killed in his final-strike etc etc. Savil had her throat torn out, and body mutilated. Talia had her feet crushed. Kris went down in a hail of arrows. Yes, I'm deliberately being gory to make a point - the same people who complained about being shown sexual violence didn't utter a peep about a single one of the 'standard' violence incidents above. Not one mention. Nada. Why the dichotomy? Some of the people said the sexual violence approached the soft pornography stage.. Uh huh.. Did we read the same books? If so, well, you make the call. Let me just point out in passing that most of the sexual violence happens offstage. We're told it happened, not given blow-by-blow descriptions. Finally, obviously, sexual violence does happen. Check the statistics.. then check the statistics revised for how much doesn't come to public attention. I can't help but wonder how many of the complaints are due to a kind of deliberate blinkering. Fairly obviously Misty does try with her books to raise consciousness of various issues and dispel stereotypes and I think, succeeds admirably. Sexual violence does happen. Rape victims don't necessarily "ask for it", didn't "lead them on" & don't "deserve it". Homosexuality isn't some sort of disgusting perversion. Alternative religions aren't necessarily satan-worshipping, virgin-sacrificing cults. Etc, etc. And if she sometimes belabours the point, well then, perhaps sometimes it's needed. Her work does attempt to break the stigma that tends to surround sexual violence victims and I don't see how that's a bad thing. Whew.. I'm not normally this intense... honestly.. :) Well, for those who got this far, a short intro so you know who this strange person is.. :) The name's Kerry (yes, that's male).. 20.. been reading for as long as I can remember.. discovered Misty's books at the impressionable age of 15 and was hooked. On the lookout for Knights of Ghosts & Tourneys and the other book she co-wrote with Ellen Guon (Hot wheels? Wheel somethings?) in Australia. :) Cheers! Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com "For the song and the sword and the pipes of pan, Are birthrights sold to a usurer; But I am the last lone highwayman, And I am the last adventurer." ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 88 ********************************