MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 90 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Villian Characteristic by Thia 2) Re: List?!? -Reply by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 3) Re: number of subscribers by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 4) Re: Villian Characteristic by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 5) Re: Villian Characteristic by jah10-+AT+-cornell.edu (Jay A. Howell) 6) Re: Villain Characteristic by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 7) Steeleye Span by Bear <76152.1626-+AT+-compuserve.com> 8) Re: Villian Characteristic by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 9) Re: Magic.. Was Villains. by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 10) Re: Stop the world I want to ... by JulesNCo-+AT+-aol.com 11) Re: BBQs? by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 12) Re: Villain Characteristic by Gyrfalcon 13) Re: Villian Characteristic by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 14) Re: Magic.. Was Villains. by Gyrfalcon 15) Magic, Villains and SPOILERS for the latter ElvenX book by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 16) Re: Villian Characteristic by Gyrfalcon 17) Re: Magic, Villains and SPOILERS for the latter ElvenX book by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 18) Re: Magic, Villains and SPOILERS for the latter ElvenX book by "Kristin A. Ruhle" 19) RE: Villian Characteristic by EBM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:44:52 -0500 (EST) From: Thia To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Villian Characteristic Message-ID: <01HTDDRHBJTU8WX5FQ-+AT+-WELLESLEY.EDU> Gyrfalcon asks, <> Ah...pardon me while I go into Thia's Discourse on The Worthy Opponent. What this means is: the ideal villian is someone the hero can only just barely overcome...even better, someone who was once a good guy and then turned bad (Darth Vader, Macbeth..the whole 'fatal flaw' thing). Pride is okay (if you think about it, this is the major flaw of most villians, from Satan in PARADISE LOST on down), but I don't quite understand why pride is directly related to stupidity. (An example, if you'll pardon my own pride :) -- I spent the past week agonizing over a story I'm writing, because I wanted a particular plot twist to happen...and couldn't figure out a way for the villian to let it happen without turning him into Forrest Gump gone bad.) Another question, to turn this slight more Misty-wards: why do Misty's villian/esses often go mad at the end? (I'm thinking specifically of Falconsbane, Hulda...I'm starting to go blank on names here: Selenay's advisor from the ARROWS trilogy, the cult leader from one of the SERRAted edge books, Keighvin's Unseelie male enemy from the first SERRAted Edge book...) Thia Cynthia E. Odiorne codiorne-+AT+-wellesley.edu Meddle not in the affairs of bards, FDC Walkaround Mrs. Potts for your name is silly and scans to 'Greensleeves' FDC Luke Skywalker Opinions by CEO SCA Judith Hosford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:06:59 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: List?!? -Reply Message-ID: <950727170413_42217020-+AT+-aol.com> Hi Everyone!! >>Just as a blast from the past I was going through some >>of my archive I >>keep and I came accros an email from mel saying the >>list was broken. I >>also had a list of people subscribed to it (only about >>20!!!) >>the only name I really reconised was anne's ME? -grin- Wow . . .it doesn't seem like I've been on this list for a long time . . .y'all seem sorta like family . . -grin- Yeah, Mel- how many of us are there! -grin- Anne<-lobbying to get all lurkers to join the fun! :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:10:55 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: number of subscribers Message-ID: <950727171053_42219012-+AT+-aol.com> Mel . . . you are DOMAINLESS??? well, HOW will we find you to invite you to the teas?? ::grinning:: And all you 47 AOL folk- you all know about Arrows OnLine, right? -grin- <> Email me, AOL folk if you are not a member of the AOL chapter of QO and want info! Anne, realizing the Lackey content is nil, and is searching for a safe place to hide in this nasty heat in NYC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:25:39 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Villian Characteristic Message-ID: <950727172428_42228633-+AT+-aol.com> Hi Everyone! Gyrfalcon asked: >>As long as we are on such a Dark subject, what do you >>think are ideal >>characteristics in villians? What do you admire and >>what would you like >>to see in them. In short what would your ideal >>villian be? Having a partner who is massively into "true crime" books and training to be a forensic pathologist, what I hear a lot as she peruses my books is: "Why the *bloody heck* doesn't the villain simply KILL the good guy? The *heck* with wanting to tell his whole plotline so the dork can escape!" I rather agree- but that makes for short books . . .there are SO many ways to kill a person, and when you add in magic, you add even more! If I was, personally, going to become a evil person, the last thing I would do is warn the good guy over and over, and make a "deathtrap"-- heck, use a LANDMINE if you want it done! Sorry . . it's hot, and I have no air conditioning! Anne, not normally so surly! annes3832-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 17:50:38 -0500 From: jah10-+AT+-cornell.edu (Jay A. Howell) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Villian Characteristic Message-ID: >If anyone has read the book by CS Friedman (I forget the title, and it's >at home, but it's the prequel to "When True Night Falls" - help?), the >former-cleric-turned-Hunter in that is a good villain - horribly likable >for all his evil, intelligent, powerful but not ridiculously so... *Wistful-sigh*, Finally someone mentions one of my Fave "baddies". The book is "The Black Sun Rising", Book one of the Cold Fire Trilogy. Book 2 was "When True Night Falls". Gerald Tarrant: The Prophet of the Chruch. (Main religion on the planet.) Immortal creature, feeding off the life energies of the living through their dreams/emotions. He made a Pact with the "Powers that be" on the planet, in order to understand how humans could live in harmony with its natural forces. IMHO Tarrant is the only person intelligent enough to understand that the "Fae" cannot be twisted to suit your needs. I liked this guy so much, I named one of my black cats after him. (His twin brother was named Yandros: From the Time Master trilogy by Louise Cooper. Anyone read those books?) Jay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:22:16 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Villain Characteristic Message-ID: <950727162216.20613439-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> Not to be a total pain in the a**, but... it's Villain, not Villian (mom's an english teacher). Not that I'm the World's Greatest Speller (TM) or anything. Anyway, I think there's nothing wrong with a Villain who is at least as intelligent as the hero. The key to such a story would be twofold. First, the villain might not be aware he/she is opposed by the hero. Therefore, despite being intelligent etc, wouldn't actively be trying to remove the hero. Second, everyone makes mistakes. The key is to make it not be so miraculous or stupid as to be unbelievable - the phone ringing at the moment the villain is about to kill the hero, and the villain just has to get it before he kills the hero. Pretty stupid. Or, just at that moment, the hero realizes he's holding a .357 in his *other* hand Or the sidekick manages to open the fourteen bolt lock at the last possible second (although that one would be better than the rest). In other words, don't make the Villain stupid, but realize that everyone can be foiled. And once in a while, the villain should win a battle or two, though of course, they will generally lose the war. For example, the villain might kill of a sidekick or two. A favorite pet. Some innocent bystanders. Hmmm. This could be fun. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jul 95 19:59:37 EDT From: Bear <76152.1626-+AT+-compuserve.com> To: Misty List Subject: Steeleye Span Message-ID: <950727235936_76152.1626_GHM83-1-+AT+-CompuServe.COM> It's SHANACHIE, and the full address for those interested is... Shanachie Records Corp. Dalebrook Park, Ho-Ho-Kus, NJ 07423 I have almost every album SS has put out on CD ( 10 so far that I've found ) plus, I have almost all of their albums on Vinyl (Over 14 at last count). I am looking for a copy of _Rocket Cottage_ if anyone out there has a copy they would be willing to sell and/or trade for. It's the only one that seems to elude me to finish my SS collection. I have the address of an import shop in Colorado that can find just about anything you're looking for, when I find it I'll post it on the list. If you happen to live in CO, the store is called JB&H Records and they are in Lakewood, on Alameda and Simms. Any questions about Steeleye Span? Fire away, I'll do the best I can. E-mail to... 76152.1626-+AT+-compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 11:44:44 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Villian Characteristic Message-ID: <9507280144.AA21692-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Thia wrote: > Another question, to turn this slight more Misty-wards: why do > Misty's villian/esses often go mad at the end? (I'm thinking specifically > of Falconsbane, Hulda...I'm starting to go blank on names here: Selenay's > advisor from the ARROWS trilogy, the cult leader from one of the SERRAted > edge books, Keighvin's Unseelie male enemy from the first SERRAted Edge > book...) > Thia Certain personalities, especially those who are used to getting their own way (Joan wrote about overweening pride - I agree totally now that someone brought it to my attention) don't deal at all well with frustration or opposition. The more (I hesitate to say it, but can't think of a less negative word) 'disturbed' the personality, the more extreme the reaction. Add to which in the cases above you're seeing the destruction of their 'great plans' and years of work and planning.. I admit I'd be pretty irritable if someone did that to me.. :) > Cynthia E. Odiorne codiorne-+AT+-wellesley.edu > Meddle not in the affairs of bards, FDC Walkaround Mrs. Potts > for your name is silly and scans to 'Greensleeves' FDC Luke Skywalker > Opinions by CEO SCA Judith Hosford Hey.. great line! :) Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com "For the song and the sword and the pipes of pan, Are birthrights sold to a usurer; But I am the last lone highwayman, And I am the last adventurer." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 13:46:43 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic.. Was Villains. Message-ID: <9507280346.AA22755-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> > Not to be a total pain in the a**, but... it's Villain, not > Villian (mom's an english teacher). Not that I'm the World's > Greatest Speller (TM) or anything. Bah.. I knew it looked wrong, but I was too tired & busy to think about why.. Even worse, my mom's an english teacher too though spelling wasn't one of the things that I inherited. :) > Anyway, I think there's nothing wrong with a Villain who is > at least as intelligent as the hero. The key to such a story > would be twofold. First, the villain might not be aware > he/she is opposed by the hero. Therefore, despite being > intelligent etc, wouldn't actively be trying to remove the > hero. Second, everyone makes mistakes. The key is to make > it not be so miraculous or stupid as to be unbelievable - > the phone ringing at the moment the villain is about to > kill the hero, and the villain just has to get it before > he kills the hero. Pretty stupid. Or, just at that moment, > the hero realizes he's holding a .357 in his *other* hand > Or the sidekick manages to open the fourteen bolt > lock at the last possible second (although that one would > be better than the rest). In other words, don't make the > Villain stupid, but realize that everyone can be foiled. The thing is, the Villain (he can be taught!) generally has the advantage in at least until he's discovered he has a proactive role rather than a reactive one.. meaning that if he's at all intelligent he can plan ahead and stack the deck in his favour as heavily as possible. That's why there's little excuse for a villain being beaten on his own ground. Is it just me? Or did Ancar seem much too powerful for only a Master level mage - even given he was draining himself in a prolonged final strike I would have thought a master level mage should *not* be able to take out the shields of two fully charged adepts. I'd speculate that perhaps he was Adept level but just didn't have the knack of touching the nodes (remember the discussion early in the Herald mage series about how most mages, often even adepts can't sense/use nodes? And the way Elspeth had to adjust her mental 'stance' to avoid being swept away by the node power she used?).. It's interesting to compare the different schools of magery displayed by Kethry as opposed to the heralds.. From what was said, Keth simply didn't have the power of an adept until she passed her White Winds ritual - but under herald style magic, people with adept potential, once trained are adepts. I guess it might be just different types of magic - Keth once said there were magics that didn't require the gift, just a trained will. The other thing that bugs me is the variation in how physical shields work - whether or not they can block a thrown dagger, or a hail of arrows.. And if they can, why isn't a physical shield part of every decent mage's standard personal shields? Only explanation I can think of is that they're either too draining, or less likely, that they're inconvenient. The latter still doesn't explain the lack of their use in combat situations.. Thoughts? Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com "For the song and the sword and the pipes of pan, Are birthrights sold to a usurer; But I am the last lone highwayman, And I am the last adventurer." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:20:30 -0400 From: JulesNCo-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Stop the world I want to ... Message-ID: <950728002025_42513880-+AT+-aol.com> I believe the command is 'unsubscribe',,,, ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:30:26 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: BBQs? Message-ID: <9507280830.AA01272-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > > On Thu, 27 Jul 1995, Jerry Cullingford wrote: > > > (I wonder - do they work on barbecues, or is it just hair dryers? :-) ). > > Speaking of barbecues...when do we get the Barbecue song? (No, I haven't > forgotten...) > > erica > Ah... There are a few technical difficulties :-) at the moment. For some strange reason, most of the words I'd come up with didn't quite fit the music. (Well, they might have, in a sort of photocopy the music lots of times, attack it with a chainsaw, and then stick bits of it back together), so it's back to the drawing board for most of it. And I've got to hunt out the original tape, since my MD player has croaked :-( But you can have a taster... (FX: Orchestra tunes up, pages turn, shrieks of horror, people running for the exits to the sound of trampled instruments.... :-) ) The barbecue song, or, "don't you need *two* sticks?" (To the music for WInds four quarters...) Find some matches, hunt the box; light the lighters, prod the blocks: Will the wind now blowing here fan these coals into a flame? Comes a gust both hard and long.. Damn! They've all gone out again! -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 06:50:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Villain Characteristic Message-ID: > For example, the villain might kill of a sidekick or two. Has there ever been a time where the villain had his/her own sidekick? I can only seem to remember villains having henchmen or flunkies, but has there ever been a set where there was the full character-sidekick partnership in a villain? It would be interesting to see how that would be written. I mean after all there are villains that can actually liked... If you had been presented with their side first, so why couldn't they have a sidekick? 'Tis an interesting thought. --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:06:41 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Villian Characteristic Message-ID: <9507281106.AA03425-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > In short what would your ideal villian be? Hmm. Let's see - first off, it depends on the setting - Misty tends to have goodies you can tell are Good, and baddies who are Evil, whereas something like Glen Cook's excellent Black Company series tends to be more shades of grey - there's several sides, and none has a particularly clear claim on the moral high ground. I guess what I like are believable villains - I don't think anyone goes out and thinks "I'll be evil today!", so I like them to have a good reason for doing what they're doing - they have to think they're right, and have something to back that up; and ideally that should be something plausible, rather than wimping out and blaming it on insanity - both sides should consider themselves justified. Maybe the enemy really does need to expand, and our guys are in the way; maybe the "evil" priest is really trying to bring the blessings of his deity to the rest of the world, or whatever. In any case, they shouldn't be stupid; keeping people alive when it would be more sensible to kill them, or telling them the real plan so they can escape is right out :-). Keeping them alive for interrogation, or because executing prisoners isn't allowed (or would offend allies) and you don't think they can escape is one thing - shooting yourself in the foot by giving them the plans and waving them off is another. Of course, that does tend to limit the scope for plots a little :-) -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:07:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic.. Was Villains. Message-ID: > The other thing that bugs me is the variation in how physical shields work > - whether or not they can block a thrown dagger, or a hail of arrows.. > And if they can, why isn't a physical shield part of every decent mage's > standard personal shields? Only explanation I can think of is that they're > either too draining, or less likely, that they're inconvenient. The latter > still doesn't explain the lack of their use in combat situations.. There is a rule that seems common to all of the true magic that seems to reside in Velgarth, that is Like attracts Like, and Like affects Like. A mage could set a shield to protect against physical attacks, but the magic would have to go into Creating a Physical shield. Creating and sustaining such a shield would be draining to both the mage and his resources. Also there is a reason why most mages don't use such shields... They rarely, if ever see close combat. Even company mages don't use their magic as a weapon, they use it for healing, communication, intelligence, and maybe some harrassment. But it seems that the most physical magics were the most exausting. Wasn't there a comment about how illusion was easy to do but a great drain on the resources? It Creates an image, something that others can see, hear, smell, but has no substance. Also a Gate is a very physical beastie, It almost always drains the mage completely. Not to mention that Evil Mages ie villains have a tendency to Not see that a child with a rabbit sling can take them down as easily, or easier than another mage with an army. All the child needs is about 5 seconds to aim. I've said enough... Anyobe else? --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:59:43 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Magic, Villains and SPOILERS for the latter ElvenX book Message-ID: <9507281159.AA15402-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> (Apologies for the subject line, I'm blanking on which book was which and can't be bothered to check the FAQ right now :)) spoiler space more spoiler space anyone want to know what happens in the Babylon 5 episodes the US hasn't got yet? and more spoiler This is why I liked the second ElvenX book so much. The elven girl (I really am having a bad day with names here) has very little magic, barely out of cantrip-level, but she actually manages to do some useful things with it. Much like the Valdemaran hedge-wizards etc ... show you don't _need_ to be a high-level magic-user to affect the outcomes ... Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:43:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Villian Characteristic Message-ID: > whereas something like Glen Cook's excellent Black Company series tends > to be more shades of grey - there's several sides, and none has a > particularly clear claim on the moral high ground. I must agree on this issue, I personally liked the Black Company immensly, the fact thatthere are really no "good guys" the hero's are on the side of "evil" the oppressive dictatorship. The Lady was one of the most interesting villainesses I have seen. She fought the rebels not only to keep her rule, but also to prevent her husband from coming back. The Taken were more spooky and twisted than any villains that most writers use. All of them had sane and logical reasons for doing what they did, even more so than Jordan's Forsaken. There is nothing more than a sane and logical villain. One that thinks out all of her options and makes the best choices, insane villains are, unfortunately, predictable. They always tell the heros the plans when the have them in captivity, and those same heros always escape. Give me a villain who you don't know is the villain. One whose motives you can agree with, or if you don't agree at least see why they're doing those things. Now I don't want to open any old wounds or touchy spots but I like the villains in Jordan's Wheel of Time, the Forsaken all have motives, and all plot with and against each other, using whatever comes to hand. To get this back to Lackey related content, Ma'ar was the "best" villain written for the velgarth books. Granted you don't see much of him but you can infer what he like from the way the war is progressing. We know that he has everything thought out, has planned for nearly every contingency, and is only slightly paranoid. He hadn't done anything that wasn't well thought out and he accepted the conquences as they fell. As a side issue, wasn't Uthro's original tower somewhere in the now Pelgairs? Wonder what wonderful knowledge is still hiding in there? Ramblin' on, --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:12:08 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic, Villains and SPOILERS for the latter ElvenX book Message-ID: <9507281312.AA04819-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> [Spoilers ahead!] > > > > > > > This is why I liked the second ElvenX book so much. The elven girl (I really > am having a bad day with names here) has very little magic, barely out of > cantrip-level, but she actually manages to do some useful things with it. Much > like the Valdemaran hedge-wizards etc ... show you don't _need_ to be a > high-level magic-user to affect the outcomes ... > > Mel. Hmm. I'm not sure I'd completely agree with the "very little" bit - seriously underestimated and undervalued, yes - but there are a few really vicious abilities there too. (even though she doesn't use them much) - the *pft* you're dead one isn't what I'd class as minor :-) and some of the others could be really nasty as well. But most the stuff she actually *uses* most of the time is an excellent example of how to use minor magics to very good effect. :-) -Jerry (who's blanking on the thingy, wossit, names, too today :-) ) -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:35:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic, Villains and SPOILERS for the latter ElvenX book Message-ID: <199507281635.AA15556-+AT+-jive.rahul.net> > > [Spoilers ahead!] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mel. > > Hmm. I'm not sure I'd completely agree with the "very little" bit - seriously > underestimated and undervalued, yes - but there are a few really vicious > abilities there too. (even though she doesn't use them much) - the *pft* > you're dead one isn't what I'd class as minor :-) and some of the others > could be really nasty as well. > > But most the stuff she actually *uses* most of the time is an excellent > example of how to use minor magics to very good effect. :-) > > -Jerry (who's Actually I am under the impression that all elves with strong magic have both the "greater" and "small" magics, but that boys are *taught* only the former and girls only the latter. Remember that Lorryn complains about not knowing how to do what Sheyrena can! There are also a few elven widows, (it's hinted from rumors Rena hears) who "wield power like a man" but don't share their secrets with anyone. (stupid text editor! sorry s ) ) Kristin kristin-+AT+-rahul.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:29:48 -0600 From: EBM To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Villian Characteristic Message-ID: <01HTEU0QTFGY9BXXTO-+AT+-SKISAS.USask.CA> I have a feeling that a bunch of people may answer this but, ... > As a side issue, wasn't Uthro's original tower somewhere in the now > Pelgairs? Wonder what wonderful knowledge is still hiding in there? Unless his original tower was different than the one he was using at the time of the war with Ma'ar, Urtho's tower was in the middle of the D'horisha (?sp) plains. And this is the job of the Shin'a'in, to guard the weapons still under the plains. Later, Gene ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 90 ********************************