MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 91 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: #1(2) MERCEDES-LACKEY dig... by TENSEN2-+AT+-aol.com 2) Re: Villian Characteristic by Moriana-+AT+-aol.com 3) Re: Exclusivism and Christianity by Travis Knoll 4) Re: SF. Written by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 5) Re: member list by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: SF. Written by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 7) Re: Personable Villians -Reply by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 8) Re: Magic.. Was Villains. by Scya-+AT+-aol.com 9) Re: Magic.. Was Villains. by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 10) Re: BBQs? by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 11) Re: Magic, Villains and SPOILERS for the latter ElvenX book by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 12) Weird Post!! by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:28:10 -0400 From: TENSEN2-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: #1(2) MERCEDES-LACKEY dig... Message-ID: <950728142809_42877264-+AT+-aol.com> >Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 10:48:00 PDT >From: NLEVIN-+AT+-mwnjpo3.mwnj.mwhse.com (Levin Neal) >To: vanyel.herald.co.uk!mercedes-lackey-+AT+-mwhse.mwhse.com >Subject: List?!? >Message-ID: <30152E96-+AT+-smtpgate.mwhse.com> >Hey don't run away scared because I finally got the ability to write to the >list. I've seen only one message in the past day, griffin got your tongues?!? Mel, This is Neal in my other incarnation.. None of the messages are getting through to the mwhse.com account anymore. Tensen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:12:10 -0400 From: Moriana-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Villian Characteristic Message-ID: <950728161208_42942149-+AT+-aol.com> Actually, the best villains (I am majoring in english, and I can't spell, so sorry in advance. ) I think have more human qualities to them as well. As a historical example, Hitler painted roses. (Not that I like the man much) I guess what I'm trying to say is that while villains are bent on destoryiong the known world, a conquest of power or a thirst for revenge, there should be much more to them than that. Someone mentioned Macbeth (sorry, I'm loosing my memory slowly but surely ). He is one example of a timeless rogue because he was well-rounded; one aspect of his personality dominated the other and that is why he turned to 'evil'. Of course, if I was a villian I would think I wasn't evil. :) I would be doing what I believed in. . .and although it might be dark and black to others, it wouldn't necessarily to me. The best villains show us things about ourselves that we dislike. . .I think that's why we like them so much. Ma'ar was not one of my favorites, simply because we didn't know him enough to honesetly like or dislike him. I think ti would be an interesting fantasy story told from the villains point of view. . .and have the villain win. :) Donna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:54:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Travis Knoll To: "Perhaps a Princess..." Subject: Re: Exclusivism and Christianity Message-ID: Sarah, (my wife's name is Sarah, BTW, so I understand the reference in your sig. :) > -+AT+-Understand that I don't want to take away rights in areas that don't > -+AT+-involve what I consider to be areas of public and social harm. I, for > -+AT+-instance, don't want to prohibit activities, no matter how much I > -+AT+-personally find them distasteful, that happen in the "privacy of your > -+AT+-home". I do, however, think that if I ask the Gov't to enfranchise > -+AT+-unborn babies, I am within the sphere of public policy. Who is and is > -+AT+-not under the protection of law is clearly a case to be determined in > -+AT+-the political process. > > !!!This is the first time I have seen someone else voicing exactly how I do, > politically speaking. Thanks for this note. I was begining to feel very alone on this... > Do you ever have any problems/doubts. Wondering if you're somehow > betraying God/stepping out of his will in believing that the > government shouldn't be doing things like making homosexuality > illegal inside the home. Of course I do. I also recognize that while this nation is perhaps mostly Christian(depending upon how you limit the term), there is value in tolerance. Jesus was very accepting of those that were "undesireable" in his society, and clearly taught forgiveness and love even in the face of overt sin. I find that using the Gov't to "force" people to do the right thing when there is not a good consensus and not an obvious harm is ineffective. (see speed limits and prohibition for examples) Within the church, however, I take a very different track. The church must be willing to offer mercy and forgiveness, but must be very careful to recognize sin for what it is. Basically mercy yes, acceptance, no. > Or worry that if you tell other folk, they might misunderstand > and never come to God because they thought of you as 'just like > everyone else' and closed their minds to hearing? Yes, I am often misunderstood. I keep trying to communicate more effectively, though, so hopefully this is getting better. I find that if I take a hard line stance (outlaw homosexuality! :), my witness is even less understood or appreciated. > That's sorta the problem I have. > Its just nice too know I'm not going entirely mad :) Ditto! :) > -+AT+-If you find in your walk with Jesus that you are to completely allow > -+AT+-forces outside of your camp to control questions like the above, I > -+AT+-hope that you don't end up outside of the Gov'ts protection as a result. > > -+AT+-It has happened before, ask your local Rabbi for a history lesson if > -+AT+-you haven't heard. > > -+AT+-If it happens again, (I believe it is happening now to 1.5 million or so > -+AT+-babies a year in this country) ask yourself about the "inalienable rights" > -+AT+-you enjoy without defense... > > =================================================== > Sarah sarah-+AT+-eskimo.com > =================================================== > My picture of the world is of masses of people extending gifts to other > people, doing favors -- but nobody keeping score. -- Dr. Whitsett > =================================================== A nice picture. It reminds me of "I have a dream" though the focus is a little broader. Travis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:57:04 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SF. Written Message-ID: <950728235703_125519339-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-26 15:46:32 EDT, you write: > Has anyone been following the Lackely thread on SF.written >recently? The jist of it is that some people think she uses too much >sexual violence. My first thought was what? but then I sat down and >thought. Vanyel getting raped. Talia, Kethry _and_ Tarma, Nyara(sp?), >etc. in just about every book somthing happens, and often it is a major >character. I never really noticed how much there was, probably because >when I reread books, I often do it in sections, and skip those parts. When >I re-read Magic's Price, I usually put it down between the forming of the >heartstone and Savil's death. I never really thought why, I just did. > >Any thoughts? You know, one of the reasons that I like the Serrated Edge Series so much is because there is always a child in a rather sticky situation that is dealt with. I think that this is ML's way of saying that we as a country in the U.S. need to take better care of our children as a whole. I have not thought about the sexual violence that much. It was never really in the front of my mind as a read the other stories. Sometimes I think that writters for one reason or another find a topic that needs to be dealt with somehow and weave it into their books. If that is the case that really is fine with me as long as the writter does not get preachy. ML does not do that!! I think that I will have to pick these books up again and see if I notice this and maybe make a further comment later. But I alos think that we must consider that we are dealing with a sort of mediaval time period here and things were handled a lot differently than what we are accustomed to. The same goes for the way Americans handle things differently then the rest of the world. I hope you all got what I was trying to say...... Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Lesbian lovemaking, contrary to what Reuben thinks, does not equal zero. It equals, among other things, orgasm. -- Dolores Klaich. People who can't think of anything else but whether the person you love is indented ot convex should be doomed not to think of anything else but that, and so miss the other ninety-five percent of life. -- Robert Towne. Let's stop treating the earth like an ashtray. -- Bette Midler. Why are some people so miserable in their own lives that they must try to control mine? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ GAY PRIDE FESTIVAL HARRISBURG PA SUNDAY JULY 30 1995 RESIVOIR PARK ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:53:33 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: member list Message-ID: <950728235331_125519364-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-26 18:28:18 EDT, you write: >Hi my name is Eric and I am new to america online and the list. I am not >sure if this will go through or not. Anyway I am a member of QO and would >love to talk to anyone privately or publicly about lackey or my favorite >character, Vanyel. My e-mail address is EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com. > > > HI Eric welcome to the list and to aol. There are several of us on the list also on aol. One person that you definately need to look up is Anne her screen name is AnneS3832. If any of us can be of help we will be here for you......I know that this may sound like I am going out on a limb, but you will really find a nice bunch of people/ML nuts...... Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Lesbian lovemaking, contrary to what Reuben thinks, does not equal zero. It equal, among other things, orgasm. -- dolores Klaich. People who canb't think of anything else but whether the person you love is indented or convex should be doomed not to think of anything else but that, and so miss the other ninety-five percent of life. -- Robert Towne. Let's stop treating the earth like an ashtray. -- Bette Midler. Why are some people so miserable in their own lives that they must try to control mine? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ HARISBURG PA GAY PRIDE FESTIVAL SUNDAY JULY 30 1995 RESIVOIR PARK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 01:27:24 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SF. Written Message-ID: <950729012723_125567781-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-26 23:09:44 EDT, you write: >Finally, obviously, sexual violence does happen. >Check the statistics.. then check the statistics revised for how much >doesn't come to public attention. I can't help but wonder how many of >the complaints are due to a kind of deliberate blinkering. >Fairly obviously Misty does try with her books to raise consciousness of >various issues and dispel stereotypes and I think, succeeds admirably. >Sexual violence does happen. >Rape victims don't necessarily "ask for it", didn't "lead them on" & >don't "deserve it". >Homosexuality isn't some sort of disgusting perversion. >Alternative religions aren't necessarily satan-worshipping, >virgin-sacrificing >cults. >Etc, etc. And if she sometimes belabours the point, well then, perhaps >sometimes it's needed. Her work does attempt to break the stigma that >tends to surround sexual violence victims and I don't see how that's a >bad thing. > > >Whew.. I'm not normally this intense... honestly.. :) Kerry, I couldn't even begin to tell you how much I agree with the quoted parargraph above...........Let's just say that I agree whole heartedly with that and other things that you pointed out. I have not been following the thread but again, I believe that you mentioned this....As long as we (and I am using that loosely) can shove a problem in the closet, or under th rug, or ignore it, it will go away. Let me tell you that I spent enough time in the closet and it aint pretty! As long as something does not interfere with our daily routines we are happy but as soon as something is thrown in our face for whatever reason and circumstance, it is not right, or what have you..... I guess what I am trying to say is this. I recently had a friend come out of the closet, we were together with a bunch of friends discussing politics, and my friend who just came out said, I can't deal with all these politics, and he was told then that he should have stiad in the closet because he just came into very political area.......get my drift? I sure hope so...... Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ We have to not only affirm ourselves as an identity, but as a creative force. -- Michael Foucault. "Robert Mapplethorpe: The Perfect Moment" opens at the Whitney, July 28, 1995. Let's stop treating the earth like an ashtray. -- Bette Midler. Why are some people so miserable in their own lives that they must try to control mine? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 01:31:05 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Personable Villians -Reply Message-ID: <950729013104_125567836-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-27 10:17:12 EDT, you write: >Almost makes you wonder how people come up with decent villian, I have a >picture in my head of a long line of unscruplous people snaking up to a >desk, and being asked: >-- Name? > Ma'ar > >-- And what have you done that makes you a worthwhile opponent? > I've turned my people into narrow-minded bigioted facists, > unified them into a unstoppable army, and have started to > conqueror the known world. > >-- Personal Hobbies? > I enjoy power, prestige, and torturing Gryphons. I > believe in eliminating my enemies quickly, quietly and > with a minium of effort. > >-- Alright I think we can use you. > >Vision Ends. > > >Scary ain't it, > >--Gyrfalcon > > > And I know a lot of politicans that the above questionaire can be applied to. Not to mention...........well never mind. Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Weh ave to not only affirm ourselves as an identity, but as a creative force. -- Michael Foucault. "Robert Mapplethorpe: The Perfect Moment" opens at the Whitney July 28, 1995. Let's stop treating the earth like an ashtray. -- Bette Midler Why are some people so miserable in their own lives that they must try to control mine? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 10:18:34 -0400 From: Scya-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic.. Was Villains. Message-ID: <950729101832_125686549-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-28 01:15:22 EDT, you write: >The other thing that bugs me is the variation in how physical shields work >- whether or not they can block a thrown dagger, or a hail of arrows.. >And if they can, why isn't a physical shield part of every decent mage's >standard personal shields? Only explanation I can think of is that they're >either too draining, or less likely, that they're inconvenient. The latter >still doesn't explain the lack of their use in combat situations.. > >Thoughts? > >Kerry. > > I think that in looking at physical shields, the mages could use one, but it would be a constant drain of energy away from what they were currently trying to do and possibly require conscious will to keep the physical shield in place. Depending on how difficult the other things they were trying to do, or if having their presence noticed mattered, they might very possibly not have the extra energy or be able to divide their consciousness to attend to both at the same time. Just my thoughts. Scya-+AT+-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:43:21 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic.. Was Villains. Message-ID: <950729114320_125718202-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-28 00:21:48 EDT, you write: >Is it just me? Or did Ancar seem much too powerful for only a Master >level mage - even given he was draining himself in a prolonged final >strike I would have thought a master level mage should *not* be able >to take out the shields of two fully charged adepts. > > Yes, but wasn't Ancar a blood mage? And doesn't that give a different level of power than a regular mage would have either by themself or with the assistance of a node or companion? I have other comments but the escape me this early on a Sat morning. Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Lesbians have been in the forefront of the progresive movement. -- Heather Booth. Let's stop treating the earth like an ashtray. -- Bette Midler. Why are some people so miserable in their own lives that they must try to control mine? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:43:42 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: BBQs? Message-ID: <950729114340_125718351-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-28 05:09:20 EDT, you write: >And I've got to hunt out the original tape, since my MD player has croaked >:-( BUMMER!! >But you can have a taster... > > >(FX: Orchestra tunes up, pages turn, shrieks of horror, people running for >the exits to the sound of trampled instruments.... :-) ) > >The barbecue song, or, "don't you need *two* sticks?" >(To the music for WInds four quarters...) > >Find some matches, hunt the box; >light the lighters, prod the blocks: >Will the wind now blowing here >fan these coals into a flame? > >Comes a gust both hard and long.. >Damn! They've all gone out again! > > > I've come to the conclusion that you are twisted, not that there is anything wrong with that because I think that most of us are............... Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Lesbians have been in the forefront of the progressive movement. -- Heather Booth. Let's stop treating the earth like an ashtray. -- Bette Midler. Why are some people so miserable in their own lives that they must try to control mine? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:43:45 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic, Villains and SPOILERS for the latter ElvenX book Message-ID: <950729114343_125718365-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-28 09:06:13 EDT, you write: >This is why I liked the second ElvenX book so much. The elven girl (I really >am having a bad day with names here) has very little magic, barely out of >cantrip-level, but she actually manages to do some useful things with it. >Much >like the Valdemaran hedge-wizards etc ... show you don't _need_ to be a >high-level magic-user to affect the outcomes ... > >Mel. > > > Yes, Mel I agree with you. the book was Elvenblood, maybe that's what you are refering to? Anyway, I liked the little sister a lot only for the simple fact that she kept amazing her brother with what seemed to be big accomplihments by using little tiny amounts of magic. My point is sometimes less is more.......... Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Lesbians have been in the forefront of the progressive movement. -- Heather Booth. Let's stop treating the earth like an ashtray. -- Bette Middler. Why are some people so miserable in their own lives that they must try to control mine? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 11:43:46 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Weird Post!! Message-ID: <950729114344_125718391-+AT+-aol.com> Mel, Could you please e-mail me privately????!!!! I just got the weirdest post off of this list. Don't know how it happened. Don't know if it happened to everybody else. Don't know if it's an AOL problem or on your end. I would have e-mailed you privately to begin with but I can't find your private address. Sorry. Matt Who doesn't know much today! ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 91 ********************************