MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 93 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Weird Post!! by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 2) Re: Magic.. Was Villains. by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 3) Re: Weird Post!! by Kelly Klega 4) Re: Magic.. Was Villains. by Kelly Klega 5) Re: Magic.. Was Villains. by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 6) Re: Advert for STORM RISING! by GLevine-+AT+-aol.com 7) Re: Personable Villians -Reply by GLevine-+AT+-aol.com 8) Re: Magic.. Was Villains. by Gyrfalcon 9) Re: Personable Villians -Reply by Gyrfalcon 10) Re: Magic.. Was Villains. by "Susan R. Dewey" 11) Re: Magic.. Was Villains. by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 12) Re: Magic.. Was Villains. by NLEVIN-+AT+-mwnjpo3.mwnj.mwhse.com (Levin Neal) 13) Re: Urtho's tower... by MJGaul-+AT+-aol.com 14) Bloodmagic by NLEVIN-+AT+-mwnjpo3.mwnj.mwhse.com (Levin Neal) 15) Physical shields by NLEVIN-+AT+-mwnjpo3.mwnj.mwhse.com (Levin Neal) 16) RE: Urtho's Tower by EBM 17) Re: Villian Characteristic by NLEVIN-+AT+-mwnjpo3.mwnj.mwhse.com (Levin Neal) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 21:20:14 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Weird Post!! Message-ID: <950730212013_44216109-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-29 21:10:26 EDT, you write: >I got it too, Matt. Looks like someone replied to a thread on another list, >and accidently sent it here. I'm not sure how that could happen, but if >computers can do it, people can screw it up! (I should know, I'm especially >talented at that . . .) > >B*B > >~Sandi~ I am sure that we have all screwed up before. For some reason though I find it very hard to believe that someone would read ML and still have views like that. That is real scrarry. If only you knew how bad the political faggot in me wants to respond to that person......but the question is would it do any good. Unless of course this whole list were to send something asking them to be careful how they send their mail saying they don't care to read stuff like that..............But then I could really be going out on a limb here....... Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Madame Bovary is me. -- Gustave Flaubert. Let's stop treating the earth like an ashtray. -- Bette Middler. Why are some people so miserable in their own lives that they must try to control mine? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 21:20:21 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic.. Was Villains. Message-ID: <950730212015_44216143-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 95-07-30 03:27:03 EDT, you write: >> Yes, but wasn't Ancar a blood mage? And doesn't that give a different >level >> of power than a regular mage would have either by themself or with the >> assistance of a node or companion? > >As I conceptualize it, being a blood mage just affects from where you drag >the power - the actual level of the mage affects how much power they can >store internally, and the amount of power they can handle from external >sources. > > > Kerry, I have to agree and disagree with that statement about blood mages. As long as one has the gift of mage craft anyone can turn to the path of the blood mage. But I still think that it gives more power than actual reserves. I can't really argue more right at the moment though. I think this due to the fact that to get blood, it is attached to a being so not only does one get the blood, but all that comes with it, (i.e. emotions). Which imho adds even more power. Thoughts? Matt ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Madame Bovary is me. -- Gustave Flaubert. Let's stop treating the earth like an ashtray. -- Bette Middler. Why are some people so miserable in their own lives that they must try to control mine? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 21:14:44 -1000 From: Kelly Klega To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Weird Post!! Message-ID: I'm new to this list and I'm having trouble getting anything out of the archives. What is this "wierd post" I've been hearing so much about? Kelly ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 21:23:00 -1000 From: Kelly Klega To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic.. Was Villains. Message-ID: You wrote, > I have to agree and disagree with that statement about blood mages. As long > as one has the gift of mage craft anyone can turn to the path of the blood > mage. But I still think that it gives more power than actual reserves. I > can't really argue more right at the moment though. I think this due to the > fact that to get blood, it is attached to a being so not only does one get > the blood, but all that comes with it, (i.e. emotions). Which imho adds even > more power. Thoughts? Matt, I had more the idea that blood magic was taking yes, the emotions generated by pain, but mostly taking the (if you'll excuse the overused phrase) life-force of the victim. As life itself is magic, then taking the life would give the taker that magic. Thoughts? Kelly ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 12:41:37 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic.. Was Villains. Message-ID: <9507310241.AA05798-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Matt wrote: > Kerry wrote: > >> Yes, but wasn't Ancar a blood mage? And doesn't that give a different > >level > >> of power than a regular mage would have either by themself or with the > >> assistance of a node or companion? > > > >As I conceptualize it, being a blood mage just affects from where you drag > >the power - the actual level of the mage affects how much power they can > >store internally, and the amount of power they can handle from external > >sources. > > > Kerry, > I have to agree and disagree with that statement about blood mages. As long > as one has the gift of mage craft anyone can turn to the path of the blood > mage. But I still think that it gives more power than actual reserves. I > can't really argue more right at the moment though. I think this due to the > fact that to get blood, it is attached to a being so not only does one get > the blood, but all that comes with it, (i.e. emotions). Which imho adds even > more power. Thoughts? Minor point, but you don't need mage-gift to be a blood mage - it's one of the things that tempts the non-gifted. I agree you can get lots of power from blood sacrifices but not more than the mage can handle - ie the bottleneck is still the level of the mage (his ability to control power).. the power still has to be stored somewhere and I'd argue that it's in the mage's reserves. I agree with you with the latter statement - and point out that it's not the blood that gives power, it's the emotions that accompany the spilled blood - the fear, anger & pain. An example of this is Keth harvesting the emotions of the Sunhawks when they learn of Ildra's (sp?) death. Not exactly blood mage stuff but pretty darn close (Keth talks about how hard the dark emotions are to control & how subverting they are). But, I don't think that blood-sacrifices necessarily give any more power say, than a good strong node, depending on the number & strength of the people sacrificed. Anyone else note that a final-strike is the light-side of blood-mage power? A willing sacrifice providing loads and loads of power (apparently more than blood-mages get from an unwilling sacrifice). Perhaps one of the reasons that the heralds had trouble opposing Falconsbane is that none of them were desperate enough (unlike Vanyel) to final-strike him. Must be a pretty intimidating factor for mages opposing heralds to *know* that a herald-mage or even a herald (like Gavin Firestorm) *will* call final-strike to take you out rather than flee and let you take the innocent. I'd want damn good shields if I were a bad guy going up against a couple of herald-adepts. As an aside, the Tayledras don't seem to have this whatever-the-cost mentality. It's gotta make them easier to fight. Thoughts? Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com "For the song and the sword and the pipes of pan, Are birthrights sold to a usurer; But I am the last lone highwayman, And I am the last adventurer." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 23:02:26 -0400 From: GLevine-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Advert for STORM RISING! Message-ID: <950730230225_126647161-+AT+-aol.com> I've been reading about MZB's magazine for years now. Can anyone tell me how to get it? Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 1995 23:10:33 -0400 From: GLevine-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Personable Villians -Reply Message-ID: <950730231032_126653040-+AT+-aol.com> Sounds like the scene in 'Blazing Saddles' where the bad guys line up to get their badges. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 07:06:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic.. Was Villains. Message-ID: On Sun, 30 Jul 1995, Kerry Mealing wrote: > > Note: This is a reply to a few different posts. :) > > Perhaps I'm being dense tonight, but I'm not sure what you're saying in > the first part - do you mean that they could shield against magic, or > physical attacks but not both? I'm pretty sure Van mentions somewhere > that some of the untrained mages don't shield against both because they've > never been taught to use physical shields.. Also there's the example of > the mage Talia & Griffon & co fight at the end of Arrows Fall - he's shielded > against arrows & mind-magic. IIRC a mage can shield against magic, physical attacks, mind magic, rubber chickens, and the like, all at the same time. What I was saying is that when a mage creates a shield against physical attacks she actually creates a physical shield... You could reach out, touch it, and trace the shield with your hand. A normal person would notice a physical shield, although not one geared against magical attacks. That kind of shield would "cost" more in power because it isn't just a protection layer. It's physical form also needs to be maintained. A magical shield is just that, a mage who is only shielded with one of those would have spells bounce off his shield. A mage who is very heavily shielded will also keep out mind-magic. Which is why Ancar had such a hard time with Talia: "Damn you Heralds and your barriers" etc. > The draining part, I definitely agree with (Scya pointed it out also), > but if the alternative is an arrow through the heart.... > I don't think I specifically mentioned it, but I originally meant > Master-class+ mages.. who should be able to handle just one extra shield, > even if it is draining. (Query: Are shields all that draining if they're > not under attack? I got the impression that you pour energy into a shield > as needed, apart from a minimum required to keep the shield stable.) The shields (as I understand it) require a certain amount of energy to set up. But the reason that they're so draining is that, when they come under assult, the mage must pour more power into the shield in order to maintain it. Kinda like adding sand or earth to an eroding streambank. Unless you can put more there than was taken away, eventually the bank will collapse. > Matt: > > Yes, but wasn't Ancar a blood mage? And doesn't that give a different level > > of power than a regular mage would have either by themself or with the > > assistance of a node or companion? > > As I conceptualize it, being a blood mage just affects from where you drag > the power - the actual level of the mage affects how much power they can > store internally, and the amount of power they can handle from external > sources. > Very true, the difference between blood magic and normal is really a matter of style and personal preference. Blood mages tend to be sadistic, unstable, and insatiable. They aren't willing to go through normal paths to gain power, but instead are willing to kill for it. The difference between Adept and Master level is a matter of personal power and the ability to control nodes. Mages manipulate the same power no matter what school they follow. The power comes from all living things, flows from them, and collects in lines and nodes. Blood mages just release alot of this power at once, by ending a life. > > Don't shoot me , but I think I've changed my mind about Ancar nearly > taking Elspeth & Darkwind.. I tend to use Van as a benchmark for an Adept > and I can't visualize a Master class blood mage taking Vanyel even in a final > strike; but from what was said in Winds, Elspeth & Darkwind (and perhaps even > Firesong) aren't in his league. > Just as well Maar/Leareth/Falconsbane gets a little less stable in each > incarnation (or perhaps it's just the limitations of the gift in the body). Ancar wouldn't of even come close in a mage duel with either Elspeth/Darkwind. He didn't know nearly enough. > > Enough rambling from me.. > Thanks for the thoughts, > Kerry. > Wind to thy wings, --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 07:09:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Personable Villians -Reply Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Jul 1995 GLevine-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Sounds like the scene in 'Blazing Saddles' where the bad guys line up to get > their badges. > Badges? WE don't need no steenking Badges! That's exactly what came to my mind when I wrote that. --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 08:53:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Susan R. Dewey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic.. Was Villains. Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Jul 1995 URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > > Kerry, > I have to agree and disagree with that statement about blood mages. As long > as one has the gift of mage craft anyone can turn to the path of the blood > mage. But I still think that it gives more power than actual reserves. I > can't really argue more right at the moment though. I think this due to the > fact that to get blood, it is attached to a being so not only does one get > the blood, but all that comes with it, (i.e. emotions). Which imho adds even > more power. Thoughts? > > Matt In the second of the OathBound/Oath??? books Kethry makes use of the fear and death inflicted by others to build up great reserve of power for the battle they were about to do. I don't recall the specifics, but I seem to recall an influx of whitewinds mages at the time. Anyway, she said that it was the only way she could make use of blood magic, which was stronger and could get a greater reservoir built up, but even though her need was great she couldn't actually get the blood directly. She hadn't become an adept at this point, but was on the verge. Susan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 8:00:07 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Magic.. Was Villains. Message-ID: <950731080007.2060c142-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> This covers a bunch of stuff I've read on the list in the last few days. First off, the person asking about a Villain/sidekick combo: Isn't that what Ancar and Hulda essentially are? And wasn't it Hulda, rather than Ancar, who was able to capture Talia and Kris? Ancar was barely a master-level mage, while Hulda was clearly an Adept. As far as blood magic is concerned, my understanding was that it was based on the "life-force" of the being killed. It was noted in one of the books that one doesn't get nearly the energy from killing a ... (shoot, now I've pulled a blank on the creature) than you do from a human. The creature was one of the semi-intelligent species. Darn it. Memory's going fast :( As with all such magic systems that I've seen, the "white" path is difficult, requiring study, sacrifice, intelligence and a lot of time. The "dark" path, the path of black magic, or blood magic, or whatever, requires little study, no self-sacrifice, little intelligence and very little time. Always a plus for the evil right? And lets not forget that the Shina'in use blood magic also, though they generally use their own, and usually don't kill anyone. But when the occassion requires it... StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 12:17:00 PDT From: NLEVIN-+AT+-mwnjpo3.mwnj.mwhse.com (Levin Neal) To: vanyel.herald.co.uk!mercedes-lackey-+AT+-mwhse.mwhse.com Subject: Re: Magic.. Was Villains. Message-ID: <301D2CBA-+AT+-smtpgate.mwhse.com> Actually I'd say the bloodmage gets his power from the life essence released. The bloodmage with the magical talent might be able to see the energy the fear and rage and other strong emotions also releases, but a non-talented probably would not be able to access that energy. Just like non-adepts can't tap a node. Tensen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 12:55:47 -0400 From: MJGaul-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Urtho's tower... Message-ID: <950731125544_44617698-+AT+-aol.com> >>Yes, there was a yet previous tower. During the evacuation, he sends people >>off into the western wilderness, saying he always liked that area, and made >>an effort to keep it a wilderness, because his first tower was there. But, >>you would think he would have pretty much emptied that out when he moved to >>the one that he was using in BG, now in the middle of the Plains. I'm >>wondering whats sitting under the bottom of Lake Evandim... >The way I understood it, the Dhorisha Plains resulted from the explosion when >Urtho died--it's where his tower was--and Lake Evendim happened when Ma'ar >died--it's where the palace was that he took over. That is also why the >Pelagirs run from around Lake Evendim to around the Dhorisha Plains. (That >means that Cinnabar, Winterhart, and Tamsin are all originally from the area >that ended up becoming Valdemar!) Oops, have to be more explicit in my postings... I meant I wondered what kind of stuff was under Lake Evandim. Urtho had an evacuation and got lots of his stuff out (not all, and thats what the Shin'a'in guard), but Ma'ar's death was a bit more of a surprise... I was wondering what kind of nasty surprises were underneath Lake Evandim... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 13:02:00 PDT From: NLEVIN-+AT+-mwnjpo3.mwnj.mwhse.com (Levin Neal) To: vanyel.herald.co.uk!mercedes-lackey-+AT+-mwhse.mwhse.com Subject: Bloodmagic Message-ID: <301D36EC-+AT+-smtpgate.mwhse.com> I don't think blood magic can be stored in reserves. Its more an quick outburst of power that should be used immediately, or it will be lost. Tensen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 14:14:00 PDT From: NLEVIN-+AT+-mwnjpo3.mwnj.mwhse.com (Levin Neal) To: vanyel.herald.co.uk!mercedes-lackey-+AT+-mwhse.mwhse.com Subject: Physical shields Message-ID: <301D47CC-+AT+-smtpgate.mwhse.com> I can see a physical shield as being a major drain on the mage projecting it. A magical shield can rely on minor shielding until a spell is upon it, then the mage can dump in the addition energy needed. They should be able to sense the spell coming at them. They probably would not be able to do the same with a physical attack, because they wouldn't be able to sense it coming. Then again this is assuming it is an all around shield. It would probably be easier and less draining to have a small shield that they could move in to block. This would also require knowing an attack is coming but would take a good amount less energy. And seeing as how it would be like a physical shield. Frontal attacks could be blocked easily, only problem would be attacks from the rear. Enough babling for now, I gotta get back to working here. Tensen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 09:48:21 -0600 From: EBM To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Urtho's Tower Message-ID: <01HTIXBWYDGI9BY0JD-+AT+-SKISAS.USask.CA> > >Unless his original tower was different than the one he was using at > >the time of the war with Ma'ar, Urtho's tower was in the middle of > >the D'horisha (?sp) plains. > Yes, there was a yet previous tower. During the evacuation, he sends people > off into the western wilderness, saying he always liked that area, and made > an effort to keep it a wilderness, because his first tower was there. But, > you would think he would have pretty much emptied that out when he moved to > the one that he was using in BG, now in the middle of the Plains. I'm > wondering whats sitting under the bottom of Lake Evandim... That's what I get for lending out my copy of TBG. And yes it seems that there should be weapons similiar to those out underneath the plains underneath Lake Evendim and it's hard to see what's stopping some unscrupulous mage from attempting to dig them up. I wouldn't think they would let a little water get in their way. The only other explanation I can think of is that the weapon that Urtho used to "kill" Ma'ar somehow was set to take out the weapons as well. Just a couple of thoughts, Gene ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 14:56:00 PDT From: NLEVIN-+AT+-mwnjpo3.mwnj.mwhse.com (Levin Neal) To: vanyel.herald.co.uk!mercedes-lackey-+AT+-mwhse.mwhse.com Subject: Re: Villian Characteristic Message-ID: <301D51F6-+AT+-smtpgate.mwhse.com> Yes, the Black Company the "heroes" are on the side of the villian. But not really. It is more a three way war. Both more even and more good against a very grey individual called The Lady. The Company is mostly honorable, more so that either of their opponents. But even the evil of the other Taken has some good to it. The Taken have character. Much as Falconsbane does... In fact Falconsbane seems to be more believable than Ancar. Ancar is just the typical gloating villian. Grey Heroes are much more interesting. Even more so if they've had them fight against strictly good people. I've always been more interested in hearing the story told in the point of view of the villian. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 93 ********************************