MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 104 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: On a re-read of Winds of Change... by Vivian Choh 2) Re: a mixture of things by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 3) Re: On a re-read of Winds of Change... by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 4) Re: On a re-read of Winds of Change... by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) 5) qestions and comments re:TLHM by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) 6) Re: a mixture of things by SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) 7) Re: GENIE RTC WITH MISTY AND LARRY by Lasse Marsy 8) Re: GENIE RTC WITH MISTY AND LARRY by Kate Jones 9) Re: On a re-read of Winds of Change... by Jean Morrill 10) Re: GENIE RTC WITH MISTY AND LARRY by steph-+AT+-escher.mbi.ucla.edu (Stephanie Wukovitz) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 20:24:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Vivian Choh To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: On a re-read of Winds of Change... Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Gyrfalcon wrote: > > I've noticed something odd while re-reading Winds of Change: > > Pg 335: > "The Goddess had declared that no one but Her shamans could work > magics within the bowl of the Plains, for the task of the Shin'a'in was > to keep magic from their homeland. He had felt no calling for such a > life-task, and no liking for it, either." > > But didn't Kethry use magic in the Plains, both to entertain the > youngsters of the one clan, [ Something about a telling a story, or > performing magic, but managing to do both? ] > I thought that the first quote was a reference re: what a Shina'i'n could be (as in Shin'a'in as soon asa Shin'a'in's mage potential became awakened, that particular Shin'a'in took the path of the Shaman. But actually, that also doesn't make sense, since Keth became part of the clan (and would therefore be practising magic on the plains at a regular rate)....hmmm...Somehow I just don't see Keth as a Shaman (but since there are no stories about t&k after oathbreakers, we don't know that for sure, do we?) There's also the question of what type of magic. Isn't shamanic magic supposed to be different from the type that Keth practised (falconsbane had trouble with the shamanic magic). Maybe that first quote is actually referring to Goddess-associated magic only? Vivian Choh bi189-+AT+-torfree.net v.choh-+AT+-utoronto.ca "I am all that I claim to be. I simply have not claimed all that I am." - M. Lackey, "Oathbreakers" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 23:04:35 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: a mixture of things Message-ID: <199508110403.AA121263802-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> [snip] >ObLackeyContent: There have been discussions on the news group about the >"Griffons" (I think that's how they're spelt in that book) up in the >north of Valdemar being Ma'kar. Does anyone think that they might also be >the Coldrakes that Vanyel fought? > >Mike > and.... >I've held this as a theory, Didn't whatsisname... The Healer... ?? >Devon! (MY memory's returning :) ) from Arrows of the Queen mention >_hunting_ Griffons? It seems to me that if it were a Gryphon wouldn't >they, oh, fly down to the offending party and ask them to stop shooting >those nasty little arrows at them? IIRC the Maakar weren't that smart.. >Not to mention that they were pretty much under control of their masters. > >Now I don't believe that a colddrake could be mistaken as a >griffon/gryphon. I've always thought of them as big lizards... Much like >dragons. > >--Gyrfalcon I've always wondered why ML used both spellings for Griffi(o)ns vs. Gryphons - this differentiation between the Makaar being Griffins and the more sentient Gryphons like Treyvan and Hydona from the Kaladain (sp?) makes sense. I had assumed that it had been a matter of editing styles or such. Thinking about it some more - comparisons between Hydona and Treyvan and the creatures that Healer Devan described to Talia as those he fought in that problem sector do suggest different creatures. That colddrake described in Winds was described as cold-blooded- ie. lethargic when cool and awakens when warmed - and much more reptillian than Gryphons or even the Griffins which were more birdlike than reptile like. Happy reading- Helen h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 23:04:38 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: On a re-read of Winds of Change... Message-ID: <199508110403.AA121303805-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> > >I've noticed something odd while re-reading Winds of Change: > >Pg 335: > "The Goddess had declared that no one but Her shamans could work >magics within the bowl of the Plains, for the task of the Shin'a'in was >to keep magic from their homeland. He had felt no calling for such a >life-task, and no liking for it, either." > >But didn't Kethry use magic in the Plains, both to entertain the >youngsters of the one clan, [ Something about a telling a story, or >performing magic, but managing to do both? ] > >And again later to extend her lifespan? > >It may be that this was an oversight, as Misty further defined the >Shin'a'in 's purposes, but it just seems like a big discrepancey. > >It also could be that the Shaman-in-attendance didnt think that it was a >problem. > >Thoughts? > >--Gyrfalcon > Well, the Shamans have been described as practicing a form of magic - they did use small spillages of their own blood to release power. As to Kethry practicing magic in the Plains, I would guess her Star-Eyed blessed-bond with Tarma would sanction her presence and her practicing of magic. Plus, as the Shaman said, it was important that the Shin'a'nin needed to remember that magic could be used for good as well as bad. But then, Kethry didn't seem to spend much time on the Plains themselves - only a few months it seemed for the original stay, several years away while being a merc, and even more while running their School. I wouldn't say that she was ever considered a Shaman since: 1) as has been mentioned, Shamanic? magic differs from the spell-based magic which Kethry practices; 2) she never received the Shaman training which always seemed rather long and involved. I always thought that she was just treated as a special exception due to her bond with Tarma. An'desha's case was different because he had an untrained mage gift, not just mage-gift potential, but was being forced by his Clan to take Shaman training for which he felt no calling. So he left. Of Kethry's children, there was that one who had the mage gift and had his own White Winds school, and there was one who became a Shaman - who I thought was described as also having a mage gift, maybe only in potential though. Time for bed now..... Good reading to all! Helen h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 00:31:12 EDT From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: On a re-read of Winds of Change... Message-ID: <013.09743470.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com> >I thought Van didn't have to do an intership--that his trials of >becoming chosen and then being in the Vales with the Hawkbrothers was >considered his internship. I thought he came back from there being >considered fully trained. True. And 'Lendel said he wasn't going to be sent Circut, that he'd probably be kept at Haven after his training, 'cuz mages were so rare. .. wyvern ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 00:24:10 EDT From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: qestions and comments re:TLHM Message-ID: <013.09743171.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com> Heyla, all... I've heard some people say they thought van whined to much. KILL THEM!!! I was wondering if you guys agree. Personally, I thought he took life rather well. I mean, the poor guy saw his beloved throw himself off a building when he was 15, then he has to spend the rest of his life, more or less, exhausted and lonely. At least he didn't curl into a ball and refuse to do anything... Do you think Leareth/Ma'ar had anything to do w/what happened to 'Lendel? Van said he was killing off children and teens before they had real Gifts, and I know he was operating not long after that So maybe Ma'ar had something to do w/driving 'Lendel mad. Also, did Leareth/Ma'ar attempt to kill Van that way? I know he did Sayvil and the other two Herald-Mages , so did he try for Van? Or did he know van was onto him? "cuz I seem to remember Van saying somewhere that he was stronger than the mage expected. Also, do you think the Herald's forgetting magic was done by the Companions? Van said he did it, but he could've just told the Companions do it. It amounts to the same thing Finally, does anyone else wonder if 'Fandes was Grove-born? She *did* say she knew what would happen when she Chose him, and I've always thought of Grove-born as being sent more for a specific purpose... I think I"ve rambled enough. wyvern ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 00:28:09 EDT From: SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com (MISS MARIA T FOGEL) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: a mixture of things Message-ID: <013.09743338.SMHA86B-+AT+-prodigy.com> >> I doubt a colddrake could be mistaken from a griffon by learned people. >..assuming you know what a griffon looks like. What if all you know is >that gryphons are big, scaley, flying beasts? Wouldn't you assume that's >what you were up against? Yes, but Moondance, Starwind, and Savil were fighting the rest of the swarm, and i'd imagine THEY'd know what colddrakes are... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 12:51:41 +0300 (EDT) From: Lasse Marsy To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: GENIE RTC WITH MISTY AND LARRY Message-ID: Sorry, if I am too late. But I would like to have a copy of that chat. I can accept a zip format. bye Lasse ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 11:31:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Kate Jones To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: GENIE RTC WITH MISTY AND LARRY Message-ID: <199508111531.AA03641-+AT+-ds9.lesn.lehigh.edu> *sigh* Yeah, please send me a copy too, zip is fine. -- Kate Jones | Rhian the Subtle | Garlic is a vegetable, kate-+AT+-ds9.lesn.lehigh.edu | House Cyclonus | not a spice. kmj1-+AT+-lehigh.edu | East Kingdom | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 10:46:49 -0700 From: Jean Morrill To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: On a re-read of Winds of Change... Message-ID: <199508111746.KAA04605-+AT+-monsoon.hwr.arizona.edu> > regular rate)....hmmm...Somehow I just don't see Keth as a Shaman (but > since there are no stories about t&k after oathbreakers, we don't know > that for sure, do we?) > Yes there is a story, "Wings of Fire" in S&S VIII, p 15-33. It starts out on the Plains, at a time when Kethry already has children. There is no mention of her being a shaman in that story. Jean ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 11:34:28 -0700 From: steph-+AT+-escher.mbi.ucla.edu (Stephanie Wukovitz) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: GENIE RTC WITH MISTY AND LARRY Message-ID: <9508111834.AA23996-+AT+-escher.mbi.ucla.edu> dittp, please send me a copy too, zip or whatever. thanks. -Stephanie steph-+AT+-escher.mbi.ucla.edu ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 104 *********************************