MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 130 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 128 by RSulli5938-+AT+-aol.com 2) Re: Just finished Magic's Price. by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 3) Fur, in general by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 4) Re: Just finished Magic's Price. by Erica Neely 5) Re: Firecats by "Angela M." 6) Re: Firecats by "Angela M." 7) Male/female Roles in Velgarth by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 8) Shaych Acceptance by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 9) Talia Reading at beginning of Arrows by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 10) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 128 by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 11) Re: Just a little comment while reading Storm Rising... by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 12) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 128 by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 13) Larry As Cover Artist by AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com 14) Re: Just finished Magic's Price. by Mat Timmerman 15) LHM in AotQ (was Re: Just finished Magic's Price.) by Mat Timmerman 16) Re: Shaych Acceptance by Lydia Reeves 17) Re: Talia Reading at beginning of Arrows by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 18) Re: SPOILERS!! Storm Rising Musings by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 19) Re: HI by Ina Faye-Lund 20) Re: Just finished Magic's Price. by Ina Faye-Lund 21) Re: heralds/monarch by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 09:30:16 -0400 From: RSulli5938-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 128 Message-ID: <950906093015_92444468-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> Julie mentioned that maybe Altra molts in the summer. Hmmm. After I posted the cover versus inside picture question I thought of that.( Julie gets the credit for posting it though.) Her solution also gave me another thought. I just assumed all firecats looked very similar like the Companions. But some of them could have short hair and some long or it could be as someone else suggested that one look is real and the other is how he looks to everyone else. I have WAY too much time on my hands but it is nice to know that I have all you other crazy people to keep me company. Windweaver ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 09:35:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Just finished Magic's Price. Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Stephanie Wukovitz wrote: > > Also, it is implied that this version of the tale mentions Stefan > as Vanyel's lover (the word "lifemate" is used, and also when Talia > meets Ylsa and Ylsa tells her of her and Keren's lifebond, Talia > asks if it's like that of Vanyel and Stefen). > She also mentions that it is not that surprising to her, because of "special friendships" among the female household members (esp. lesser wives) among the Holderkin, something that is explained by the greater number of females relative to males (which also would have given rise to the polygyny practice [that means having many wives, just in case anyone needs to know :-)]). Apparently this is something that is tolerated, but not accepted, condoned OR talked about; as opposed to relationships between men, which are accepted (along with female-female relationships) among the Heralds, but not the Court or the general populations. Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 09:48:31 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Fur, in general Message-ID: Speaking of fur (I have no opinion yet on the firecat, only that the cover picture is cute, but that's totally irrelevant since I haven't OPENED the cover yet....), I was reminded of a comment/mini-thread on a.b.ml regarding Nyara and HER fur/not-furred state. Last night I came across a section of Winds of Change, where, she is examining the changes that Need has wrought in Healing her. And she notes that she has (still) very, very fine fur that unless one was EXTREMELY close, no one could tell it was there. She then wonders if Darkwind and Skif had even noticed, well, maybe Skif did. But certainly Darkwind did not, since he was trying NOT to pay attention to her physical attributes after she was awake. So, either fur is not mentioned in Fate because were "see" Nyara through Darkwind for the most part and HE didn't notice, OR ML did forget about it at first and wrote in the explanation for the "discrepancy" later. Cecile (who is definately NOT furred - unless the cat has been shedding again) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 19:33:13 +0100 (BST) From: Erica Neely To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Just finished Magic's Price. Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > > needs to know :-)]). Apparently this is something that is tolerated, but > not accepted, condoned OR talked about; as opposed to relationships > between men, which are accepted (along with female-female > relationships) among the Heralds, but not the Court or the general populations. Actually, this is just the general population of Valdemar, isn't it? I think there's a scene in, um, Oathbound where Tarma and Kethry pose as lovers to get into Keth's hometown - the name of which escapes me for the moment - before which Tarma asks if the same-sex relationship would cause problems and Keth said no. (I know they do this somewhere - I think it's there.) So you could take this to mean Rethwellan is more tolerant. OTOH, when Kero has "yearnings" for Darren, she's happy that she's normal and not saych, so it obviously isn't completely tolerant...and there's that scene earlier where her brother's fiance - Dierna? - keeps looking at her funny "as if she were saych and were going to start seducing Dierna." (Blatant paraphrase there.) So what do y'all think? Is it just that one city in Rethwellan that doesn't care? What information - if any - do we have about Karse, Hardorn, any other places whose names now escape me in relation to this? Hmm, and maybe we should rename this thread... I have entirely too much time on my hands... Erica ********************************************************* * Filk is what a filker does before she gets beat up. * ********************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 15:02:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Angela M." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Vivian Choh wrote: > On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Angela M. wrote (regarding artists for book covers): > > > I think that many of the lesser names just get a brief summary or a > > couple chapters to go on. > > Is this because the writer does not make the material available, > or because artists don't like to spend the time reading the writer's work? It usually happens for several reasons. Most authors don't get a choice as to what the cover will look like, let alone who the artist will be. If you're a big enough name you can get some control, but otherwise it's all in the publishers lap. They're the ones who only give a tiny blurb to the artist, or they even TELL the aritst exactly what to paint. It's really a disconnected process. As far as Misty goes, she may be big enough now to get Larry's illustrations included with the text, but the publisher may want to keep Jody Lee for the covers for sheer continuity. I really have no clue and I'm only making educated guesses. *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Angela M. Murray |"If I had a $1,000,000 I'd buy you Nazareth College of Rochester, NY |a monkey, haven't you always wanted Art Education * (ammurray-+AT+-orion.naz.edu)|a monkey?" -Barenaked Ladies *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ___ ___ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 15:06:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Angela M." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, William Jones wrote: > That brings to mind another question... Why is Misty still letting > Jody Lee do her covers. Don't get me wrong, she did a miraculous job > with Vanyel on the LHM covers and is pretty decent on most of the > others (Though her Elspeth needs a whole lot of work IMO). I just > figured that with Larry doing her illistrations, she would also get him > to do her covers. Besides, husbands work for free :-) She may not have the say so to let Larry do the covers. For one thing, the publishers would prefer to have all of the books of the same series have the same *look*. Having the same artist do all the covers keeps a certain kind of continuity going. The average reader comes into the bookstore, sees a familiar looking cover and connects it with the other books they read. It's a marketing thing. Also, I don't know much about Larry's artwork, but he may not like working in acrylics or oils. His chosen medium may just be pencil drawings spruced up on the computer. Oh, and it would be the publisher paying for the covers, not Misty. So he'd get paid either way :). *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Angela M. Murray |"If I had a $1,000,000 I'd buy you Nazareth College of Rochester, NY |a monkey, haven't you always wanted Art Education * (ammurray-+AT+-orion.naz.edu)|a monkey?" -Barenaked Ladies *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ___ ___ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 15:46:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Male/female Roles in Velgarth Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Erica Neely wrote: > On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > > > > needs to know :-)]). Apparently this is something that is tolerated, but > > not accepted, condoned OR talked about; as opposed to relationships > > between men, which are accepted (along with female-female > > relationships) among the Heralds, but not the Court or the general populations. > > Actually, this is just the general population of Valdemar, isn't it? I > think there's a scene in, um, Oathbound where Tarma and Kethry pose as > lovers to get into Keth's hometown - the name of which escapes me for the > moment - before which Tarma asks if the same-sex relationship would cause > problems and Keth said no. (I know they do this somewhere - I think it's > there.) So you could take this to mean Rethwellan is more tolerant. Yes, I did just mean Valdemar, wasn't thinking that wide a scope. But you are correct about the scene in Oathbound, except that its in Jkatha, not Rethwellan. > > OTOH, when Kero has "yearnings" for Darren, she's happy that she's normal > and not saych, so it obviously isn't completely tolerant...and there's > that scene earlier where her brother's fiance - Dierna? - keeps looking > at her funny "as if she were saych and were going to start seducing > Dierna." (Blatant paraphrase there.) If I remember right, the Keep was sort of in the middle of nowhere (see comment below about hinterlands) and if I remember right, her father only had male guards or men-at-arms, no female fighters. Women were supposed to be interested in marriage, family, etc. When Kero took up the "male role" to rescue Dierna, this was equated with masculinity and in a women that COULD mean being shaych. Anything/anyone breaking the norm would be looked at with suspicion. > So what do y'all think? Is it just that one city in Rethwellan that > doesn't care? What information - if any - do we have about Karse, > Hardorn, any other places whose names now escape me in relation to this? Don't know about Karse and Hardorn, but since Karse was always an oppressive regime and Hardorn has become one, they are probably LESS tolerant than other areas. As for the other countries (Rethwellan included), I would say that there would be more tolerance (or apathy) in areas of larger population or along trade roads, etc., and more suspicion/prejudice in the hinterlands (e.g. the view of Heralds that the Holderkin have - no morals, etc.). > Hmm, and maybe we should rename this thread... Good idea. > > I have entirely too much time on my hands... Possibly. > > Erica Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 17:12:25 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Shaych Acceptance Message-ID: <199509062112.RAA05423-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Erica Neely wrote: >On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: >>needs to know :-)]). Apparently this is something that is tolerated, but >>not accepted, condoned OR talked about; as opposed to relationships >>between men, which are accepted (along with female-female >>relationships) among the Heralds, but not the Court or the general >>populations. >Actually, this is just the general population of Valdemar, isn't it? I >think there's a scene in, um, Oathbound where Tarma and Kethry pose as >lovers to get into Keth's hometown - the name of which escapes me for the >moment - before which Tarma asks if the same-sex relationship would cause >problems and Keth said no. (I know they do this somewhere - I think it's >there.) So you could take this to mean Rethwellan is more tolerant. No, Keth's hometown isn't in Rethwellan, it's in, um, the country south of Rethwellan and right next to the Dorisha Plains, the name of which escapes me at the moment... >OTOH, when Kero has "yearnings" for Darren, she's happy that she's normal >and not saych, so it obviously isn't completely tolerant...and there's >that scene earlier where her brother's fiance - Dierna? - keeps looking >at her funny "as if she were saych and were going to start seducing >Dierna." (Blatant paraphrase there.) Rethwellan is very *in*tolerant. Remember in LHM that Stef can't accompany Van to Rethwellan because they'd take that as a mortal insult and likely declare war for it. Tarma and Kethry have to be very careful in their act in _Oathbreakers_ to avoid the implication that they travel together because they're lovers, again, because Rethwellan is *not* tolerant. Shieldmates in the Company are tolerated because the mercenaries know these people can fight, and the commoners don't find out about such things, and because there are a large number of non-Rethwellans in the Company. >So what do y'all think? Is it just that one city in Rethwellan that >doesn't care? What information - if any - do we have about Karse, >Hardorn, any other places whose names now escape me in relation to this? Given Karse's attitude towards women in general, my guess is that they feel about female same-sex relationships the way the Victorians did. My feeling is that male same-sex sex (at least the keeping of young catamites) is among the "excesses" which Solaris put a stop to. I'd guess that Hardorn under Alessander was similar to Valdemar under Selenay, but that Ancar probably felt it a threat to his masculinity and tortured anyone suspected. I would almost bet that the Empire has liberal rules regarding homosexuality, even if we haven't seen them yet, simply because the countries that it conquered have probably had widely varying beliefs, and it doesn't seem to be the Empire's way to try to forcibly change such beliefs. I don't recall, but I think that the Empires of the Black Kings were/are also fairly liberal. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 14:06:57 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Talia Reading at beginning of Arrows Message-ID: <950906140657.21a1604d-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> First of all, we had this same discussion last year, here on the list, and I was pretty much shouted down. (Okay, I'm exagerating, it's very tough to get shouted down around here.) Now maybe my position has gained a few adherents. Yeah!! Seriously, I was also of the opinion that Talia was daydreaming or daydreaming while reading, and was putting herself in the story. I assumed that the story itself had edited out Stefan and Vanyel's involvement with each other. But not the basic facts (other than no magic). Remember that by the middle of Price, very few but his close friends and family were even aware Van was Shaych. As far as what order to read them in, like several others, my opinion is: LHM Vows & Honor By the Sword Arrows Winds Storm With Gryphon either before Winds, after Winds, or after Storm. The Gryphon books thus far seem completely independent. But I think LHM should definitely come before Arrows. Any discrepancies between the "universes" can be written of as being the shift that will occur in any culture and history over a period of several hundred years. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 17:33:22 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 128 Message-ID: <199509062133.RAA05436-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Julie Vaux wrote: > Free speech and neo-nazis on the net. > Sgih o.k. so i's legal but if its NOT a violation it is at least > an abuse - YES an ABUSE of free speech. Apart from the fact it > violated net "courtesy" these people were posting propaganda - > LIES ... yes note that word LIES ... they were not simply > discussing or defending themselves as a minority . That's what people say about gays and wiccans, too, when you're not looking. If they were posting lies, forward a copy to the Anti-Defamation League. Libel and slander are not protected speech, and places have been closed down for them. > sigh there must be some way we can have "responsible" > free speech on the net without this kind of insult to sentiency > (the neo-nazi web site) existing however briefly? There is no way to prevent determined people from being stupid and taking the easy way (it's The Other's fault) out, either on the 'nets or off. > When does tolerance become folly??? and Liberality dangerous? > We dont let people walk around handing up poisoned candies ??? We do, however, allow people to sell, and even advertize, cigarettes, alchohol, excessively processed foods, etc. We expect people to have enough sense to make up their own minds about these things, because we want the same right for ourselves. > ... and judging from the ones/few I've met your "average" > neo-pagan/wicca follower believes more decently and compassionately > than your neo-nazi/racist ... i mean behaves oops ...actually > come to think of it one could also argue neo-pagan beliefs ... > some of them ... are more compassionate than those of neo-nazis??? This is irrelevant. As long as the neo-nazis don't venture into the realm of practices analogous to Blood Magic, their beliefs are protected, whether or not you approve of them. > WHAT do YOU think the Valdemaran govt/Heralds would do to > people who tried to incite riots/ hatred of other minorities? > Is "there is NO ONE TRUE WAY" a written law or not ? > Is this taught in schools? in Valdemar? I don't know if it's a written law, but it seems almost to be the motto of the country. My guess is that, by the time of the 'modern' novels, it is taught in schools. I think that the Valdemaran government would do the same thing that we try to do with such people in the US: let them talk all they want, as long as they don't step over into actual violence or instructing others to become violent. I imagine that, at some points in Valdemar's history, the renegade Sun Temples got the same sort of protection as abortion clinics currently get in the US, keeping the hecklers at a same distance without banning the heckling entirely. (Let's hope the abortion debate doesn't take 600 years to come to a peaceful resolution, though...) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 17:51:25 -0400 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Just a little comment while reading Storm Rising... Message-ID: <9509062151.AA27725-+AT+-water.waterw.com> SPOILERS BELOW!!!!! >>Subject: Re: Just a little comment while reading Storm Rising... > >>In a message dated 95-09-01 15:34:30 EDT, you write: >> >>>WHAT DOES THIS IDIOT THINK HE'S DOING?!?!? >>> >>>There, I don't think that'll give anything away....:) >>> >>>Lyn >> >>What idiot? Are you talking about the vane and pretty one? >> >>Matt J >> > >Yeah, that one. :) > >Hmmm. I wonder what the Valdemaran version of prozac would be? I don't know, but he sure was a good candidate there for a while! Actually, there for a bit I thought Ma'ar was getting ready for a return engagement. Jeanne Hedge jhedge-+AT+-water.waterw.com ======================= "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink..." --Samuel Taylor Coleridge, 'The Rime of the Ancient Mariner' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 18:03:35 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 128 Message-ID: <950906175818_92767704-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> Hi Everyone! Why is there no "One True Way" on Valdemar? The same reason we HAVE free speech- because EVERYONE there is allowed to practice what they will, and no one way is forced upon the people of Valdemar. There are no boundaries to free speech- for once you have boundaries, it is free speech no longer. 2 cents more to the fire Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 17:57:10 -0400 From: AnneS3832-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Larry As Cover Artist Message-ID: <950906175354_92767538-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> Hi everyone! ::offering iced or hot tea to all who care for some:: I have another reason Larry Dixon might not be doing covers . . . . little known fact- Larry is colorblind . . -g- He did the cover for the Jenny Talldeer book, but if you look at her face, you'll see a tiny bit of an olive cast . . . .it seems Larry THOUGHT he was loading his brish with a nice flesh tone, and it was bright green! ::chuckle:: I'm sure he'd probably like to do some of the covers, but having to carefully lable your palette each time might be a bit of a bother . . . Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 1995 17:58:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Just finished Magic's Price. Message-ID: <01HUYQHL9VUA9C2K5O-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> > From: Erica Neely > On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > > > > needs to know :-)]). Apparently this is something that is tolerated, but > > not accepted, condoned OR talked about; as opposed to relationships > > between men, which are accepted (along with female-female > > relationships) among the Heralds, but not the Court or the general populations. > > Actually, this is just the general population of Valdemar, isn't it? I > think there's a scene in, um, Oathbound where Tarma and Kethry pose as > lovers to get into Keth's hometown - the name of which escapes me for the > moment - before which Tarma asks if the same-sex relationship would cause > problems and Keth said no. (I know they do this somewhere - I think it's > there.) So you could take this to mean Rethwellan is more tolerant. This is not Rethwellan. I'm pretty sure Kethry comes from Jkatha - Lythecare, or something, wasn't it (it's been a while since I read Oathbound)? > > OTOH, when Kero has "yearnings" for Darren, she's happy that she's normal > and not saych, so it obviously isn't completely tolerant...and there's > that scene earlier where her brother's fiance - Dierna? - keeps looking > at her funny "as if she were saych and were going to start seducing > Dierna." (Blatant paraphrase there.) > > So what do y'all think? Is it just that one city in Rethwellan that > doesn't care? What information - if any - do we have about Karse, > Hardorn, any other places whose names now escape me in relation to this? > Like I said, the tolerant place was not Rethwellan. In fact, Rethwellan is very, very anti- shay'a'chern. Remember in MPrice, when Vanyel has to go on a diplomatic mission there? Well, remember also, that Stefen wanted to go along, but couldn't, because Van had to hide his homosexuality from the homophobic Rethwellans. > Hmm, and maybe we should rename this thread... Probably, though I can't actually remember what it is right now :> > > I have entirely too much time on my hands... > I wish that I did... Mat T. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Sep 1995 18:22:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: LHM in AotQ (was Re: Just finished Magic's Price.) Message-ID: <01HUYR5EO8429C2K5O-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> > From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" > Mat Timmerman wrote: > >Hmm. That's funny. I never thought of that character as anything _but_ > >Talia imagining herself into the story. Didn't that scene mention that > >she was daydreaming, not reading, anyway? It's too bad that I can only fit > >so many books on my shelf here at school. sigh. :) > > Actually, it says quite clearly that she was reading. That's what > makes her so unusual for a Holderkin girl in the first page. Granted, > it says also that she was "lost in the daydream her tale had conjured > for her," but I can get similarly lost in a book without adding extra > characters to represent myself. Yes, but she was daydreaming, not just very involved in her reading. Daydreaming sort of implies imagination and fantasy. Besides, Talia wanted most to be a Herald, and to live in a world where women were equal to men (though I doubt she'd have know that that was possible). A great fantasy for her would be exactly what we see: her as a Herald, involved in great deeds. > I tend to think that the female > Herald was added by the novelist, for the purposes of having a > narrator, balancing the men (since it was written outside the > only-men-do-interesting-things culture of the Holderkin), and > providing a more easily understandable way for the Guard post to be > warned than having *Vanyel*'s Companion take *Stefen*. Remember that > it would have been written for an audience that knows about the > Herald-Companion bond and that doesn't expect Companions to talk to > anyone besides their Herald, much less leave their Herald in peril to > carry someone else to relative safety. > As someone else pointed out, the story refered to Van and Stef as life-mates, and that means a life-bond. I doubt most Valdemarans really understand life bonds (not like we do, anyway :> ), so they'd probably chalk it up to that (although it probably *was* part of the reason that Yfandes was willing to do it). Mat T. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 19:01:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Lydia Reeves To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Shaych Acceptance Message-ID: Kethry's hometown is Mournedealth. I think acceptance of shay'ch in Velgarth follows patterns like our society. In the cosmopolitan cities, and the Empire, people deal with it. But in backwards countries, or small towns, people are against it. lydia ************* Lydia Reeves Kansas City, MO (816) 932-9122 "Talk is cheap, free speech isn't." --SPJ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 20:20:53 -0400 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia Reading at beginning of Arrows Message-ID: <9509070020.AA04242-+AT+-water.waterw.com> >As far as what order to read them in, like several others, my opinion is: >LHM >Vows & Honor >By the Sword >Arrows >Winds >Storm I don't know why you would want to read Arrows *after* you read BtS, considering the fact that the last section of BtS follows the events of the 3rd Arrows book by about 2 years (my guess). Reading BtS first, IMO, ruins any suspense there might be in "Arrow Fall" Jeanne Hedge jhedge-+AT+-water.waterw.com ======================= "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink..." --Samuel Taylor Coleridge, 'The Rime of the Ancient Mariner' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 20:36:04 -0400 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SPOILERS!! Storm Rising Musings Message-ID: <9509070036.AA04952-+AT+-water.waterw.com> >>> SPOILERS DISCUSSED BELOW! :) >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Did anybody find it odd that Talia got annoyed, and actually told the people >>> who annoyed her that she was annoyed? ("I hope this is more important than >>> what I was doing.") Or has she, too, been "brain damaged" by the storms >>> (like Firesong was - and she *is* a healer of sorts)? > >Oh good! I'm not the only one who thought she was being >uncharacteristically bad tempered. I think it was just a literary >device to throw some obstacles in the "children's" (Karal, An'desha, >& Natoli's) path. In the same way, I'm not sure, as a ruler, Solaris >would have exploded the way that she did at Karal. But in order to >keep things from getting to easy for Karal, and thus weakening plot, >character, and theme all in one swipe, he's got to have these >problems. And for Karal, the full and *hostile* attention of the Son >of the Sun is definately a problem! > >I don't think Talia was "brain damaged" by the storms because while >Firesong is a *magical* Healer, Talia's Gift is mind-magic. However, >being around a disturbed person such as Firesong would probably put >her on edge. Now there's a thought. Talia's an empath. Why >couldn't she sense that Firesong was on the brink of maddness? I agree with that idea. IMO it makes so much sense I'm a little ashamed I didn't think of it on my own And wasn't there something in one of the Arrows books about how she had to be careful not to be affected by other people around her (or am I imagining that?)? Whatever. >>> leads me to believe that they aren't all necessarily reincarnated Heralds. >>> ("...Companions were the same as Karsite Firecats - particularly wise humans >>> who had opted for rebirth in this rather odd form, the better to guide and >>> advise those who held great power in their lands.") Now we have been >>> introduced to an unpartnered femal Companion by the name of Idry. Could >>> Idry be Idra (Daren's grandfather's sister) reincarnated? > >I had the same idea. I think you're right. There *could* be >perfectly good souls hanging around, that, in life, just didn't have >the opportunity to be Chosen. It's a very good theory, I don't >think we should be looking for "repeat performances" every time we >turn around, though. >> Ohh, but it's so much fun! Personally, I'm still wondering if Rolan isn't Roald on another trip around (I don't see why the Grove born couldn't be recycled too) >Oh, yes, An'desha and Firesong. I was kind of glad to see a >relationship not work out in a Lackey work. I think she was edging >towards a "once they got together, everything was all right" rut. It >was kind of refreshing to see that not only could things not work >out, but that Firesong and An'desha could and did continue to work >together without hating each others' guts. Not every relationship >works out, she'chorne or otherwise, and I'm glad that this holds true >in Velgarth. It makes the ones that *do* work out all the more >valuable. Has anybody else noticed how she's really been emphasizing lately how awful it can be to be part of a life-bond? Almost like she came up with this idea about everybody has a soul mate and if you can find him/her, everything's going to be wonderful -- but now she's backing away from that some. I'd like to see Talia and Dirk in full "mooning over each other like a pair of romantic teenager" mode. >Does anybody like the way Misty "translates" when a character is >speaking a "forign" language? I thought Kerowyn's Karsite in >Storm Warning was a hoot, and Solaris' Hardornen...well, I thought it >almost took away from the intensity of the encounter, but it did add >a touch of reality. I thought it was great. Really puts you into Tremane's shoes. Otherwise you get into the "Star Trek Syndrome", where everybody can understand everybody else perfectly, irregardless of how well they speak the other language. Jeanne Hedge jhedge-+AT+-water.waterw.com ======================= "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink..." --Samuel Taylor Coleridge, 'The Rime of the Ancient Mariner' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 08:40:14 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: HI Message-ID: <199509070640.27329.solva.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:16:23 +0100, "Edward B. Adams" said: > On Fri, 1 Sep 1995, Aphrael wrote: [...] > Seriously, though. A herald has to be able to look beyond him/herself > and see (and do!) what is best for everyone. It is probably easier for > someone who has suffered to do so: the "I've been there and I know how > awful things can be" thought Well, remember Vanyel? How he discovered that he couldn't _not_ do anything when people needed him? I guess that is one of the most important things for a herald; the feeling of Responsibility, the will to do _your_ part of the work, and then try to help others who are not as strong. Justice, yes, and, I guess, you need to know what _love_ is. > Because at all times she put the welfare of the people first. She did > make some mistakes (i.e. her first marraige) but she always concentrated > on working and sacrificing for the people of Valdemar. During the war > with Hardon, she deliberately gave up land to him in order to stall long > enough to get the people away. Think about this: land was one of the > few true measures of wealth and she was willing to sacrifice it for the > people. She also made peace with Karse: the nation which was ultimately > responsible for her father's death. Admittedly, you had the small matter > of a complete change of government but still, making peace with > your hereditary enemies for the sake of the people of Valdemar was a huge > step that most people would not be able to make Also, being willing to listen to others, to trust that others might know better than her, and in the end know that _she_ was responsible for her own actions. I think what makes a good Herald is much the same that makes a good Monarch. All the Heralds place Valdemar above themselves. But the Monarch needs to be a good leader as well, something that _isn't_ neccessarily a trait that the Heralds have. IFL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 08:51:30 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Just finished Magic's Price. Message-ID: <199509070651.27346.solva.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Tue, 5 Sep 1995 14:48:38 +0100, "Jennifer S. Broekman" said: > Stefen's existence and his tie to Vanyel are mentioned, but another > Herald (female) is also mentioned as Vanyel's helper, and Vanyel's > character is just a bit, ah, different. Given that the story in > _Arrows_ is a (known) novelization and given what I know of real > novelizations and their tendency to pick a couple facts at random and > add as many fallacies as they feel they need, I didn't find that > _Arrows_ spoiled _LHM_ in any way. If anything, the first time I read > _LHM_, I was eager to see which of the 'facts' in that novelization > were actually true and which were the imagination of the writer. Well, I thought that the female Herald who was helping Vanyel was Talia, in Talia's imagination. It seemed to me that the Heralds knew the true story, and that Talia, while reading the book, imagined herself there as well, and giving herself a role in the book. IFL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 08:20:03 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: heralds/monarch Message-ID: <9509070820.AA06659-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > > On Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:16:23 +0100, "Edward B. Adams" said: > But the Monarch needs to be a good leader as well, > something that _isn't_ neccessarily a trait that the Heralds have. Hmm. Doesn't one of the Arrows books mention that heralds are supposed to be able to take command of the local people if needed -at least until the regular army arrives? While I'd agree that one or two we've seen might not be too good at it, I'd have thought that most should be able to do a decent job of it - maybe not *long term*, which is what the Monarch needs to be good at, but certainly for a few weeks or so :-). -Jerry -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 130 *********************************