MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 132 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Shaych Acceptance by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 2) Re: Just finished Magic's Price. by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 3) Heyla... by juniper-+AT+-olaf.wellesley.edu (Anne Cross) 4) Re: heralds/monarch by Ina Faye-Lund 5) Re: Just finished Magic's Price. by Ina Faye-Lund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 11:21:57 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Shaych Acceptance Message-ID: <199509081521.LAA06615-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Eric wrote: >I agree with lydia about acceptance. It seems like people in cities are more >tolerant of it than people in the middle of no-where. I have always felt >that Misty just projected the real world's feelings about same sex pairings. > The heralds seem to accept it over all but most people will accept that if >they are familiar with someones character or personality. Education makes >people more likely to accept it I think. This is a nice theory, and holds pretty well in, say, the US, but it doesn't explain why the Court of Rethwellan would've been sufficiently offended by finding out that Van was shaych so as to declare war on Valdemar for the insult, nor does it explain, say, Romania's attitude towards homosexuals in the real world. Education helps against lots of kinds of prejudice, but it isn't a panacea, and it isn't universal. I think Misty did project some of the real world's attitudes, *including* blind hatred by otherwise sane, intelligent, and educated people. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 11:35:31 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Just finished Magic's Price. Message-ID: <199509081535.LAA06618-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Ina Faye-Lund wrote: >jenneke said: >> Stefen's existence and his tie to Vanyel are mentioned, but another >> Herald (female) is also mentioned as Vanyel's helper, and Vanyel's >> character is just a bit, ah, different. Given that the story in >> _Arrows_ is a (known) novelization and given what I know of real >> novelizations and their tendency to pick a couple facts at random and >> add as many fallacies as they feel they need, I didn't find that >> _Arrows_ spoiled _LHM_ in any way. If anything, the first time I read >> _LHM_, I was eager to see which of the 'facts' in that novelization >> were actually true and which were the imagination of the writer. >Well, I thought that the female Herald who was helping Vanyel was >Talia, in Talia's imagination. It seemed to me that the Heralds knew >the true story, and that Talia, while reading the book, imagined >herself there as well, and giving herself a role in the book. The Heralds may know the true story, but that doesn't mean that all novels about Vanyel will *tell* the true story. Historians in our world know that Johnny Tremain didn't exist, but that doesn't mean that people reading the novel by that name are putting themselves into the story by inventing the character. Historical novelists almost always invent extra characters to make the telling easier, especially when talking about events of 600 or more years ago. Do you think that a novel about Michelangelo would have only factually established characters and would read precisely the same as whatever events actually happened? Of course not! So why the insistence that the novel Talia is reading must be factually the same as the story told in LHM? Further, I have never, in my life, invented an extra character to put myself into a story while actually reading, which the first page of _Arrows of the Queen_ makes very clear that Talia is doing, in spite of having a good and active imagination. Invention and elaboration happen when I *can't* read the actual book. Talia would have had plenty of time when she wasn't allowed to have her book with her. Why would she waste time when she could be reading the actual novel inventing her own story when she had so little time to read? Were I Talia, invention could wait until I had my hands in soapy dishwater and couldn't actually read. Any time when I could read the actual words of the novels would be spent doing exactly that, not inventing my own version of the tale. It doesn't make sense that Talia, with her voracious appetite for new stories, would be ignoring a story that was completely new to her in favor of own generated by her own imagination. If she had read the story of Vanyel before, then I could believe it, maybe, but not when it was entirely new to her and historical novelists are so well known for adding additional characters. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:11:04 -0400 From: juniper-+AT+-olaf.wellesley.edu (Anne Cross) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Heyla... Message-ID: <9509081611.AA08340-+AT+-olaf.wellesley.edu> Anyone remember me? In case you don't... I'm Anne Cross, now as Wellesley and finally with internet access, so I'm back again. ;) Aside from the discussions of Storm Rising, what have I missed? Anne Cross juniper-+AT+-olaf.wellesley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 11:19:17 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: heralds/monarch Message-ID: <199509090919.21065.solva.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Thu, 7 Sep 1995 09:53:45 +0100, Jerry Cullingford said: >> >> On Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:16:23 +0100, "Edward B. Adams" said: >> But the Monarch needs to be a good leader as well, >> something that _isn't_ neccessarily a trait that the Heralds have. > Hmm. Doesn't one of the Arrows books mention that heralds are > supposed to be able to take command of the local people if needed > -at least until the regular army arrives? While I'd agree that one > or two we've seen might not be too good at it, I'd have thought that > most should be able to do a decent job of it - maybe not *long > term*, which is what the Monarch needs to be good at, but certainly > for a few weeks or so :-). Exactly, I think the _long term_ is important. Not only do the Monarch have to take control, but he/she has to inspire to loyalty, not because he/she is a Herald, but because people will have to be willing to follow the Monarch as a person. JMHO, -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 11:52:05 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Just finished Magic's Price. Message-ID: <199509090952.21145.solva.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Fri, 8 Sep 1995 16:49:30 +0100, "Jennifer S. Broekman" said: > The Heralds may know the true story, but that doesn't mean that all > novels about Vanyel will *tell* the true story. Historians in our > world know that Johnny Tremain didn't exist, but that doesn't mean > that people reading the novel by that name are putting themselves into > the story by inventing the character. Historical novelists almost > always invent extra characters to make the telling easier, especially > when talking about events of 600 or more years ago. Do you think that > a novel about Michelangelo would have only factually established > characters and would read precisely the same as whatever events > actually happened? Of course not! So why the insistence that the > novel Talia is reading must be factually the same as the story told in > LHM? Well, it is more a feeling that inventing a character is exactly what Talia would do. Just a feeling. > Further, I have never, in my life, invented an extra character to put > myself into a story while actually reading, I have. :=) > which the first page of > _Arrows of the Queen_ makes very clear that Talia is doing, in spite > of having a good and active imagination. Invention and elaboration > happen when I *can't* read the actual book. Talia would have had > plenty of time when she wasn't allowed to have her book with her. Why > would she waste time when she could be reading the actual novel > inventing her own story when she had so little time to read? Were I > Talia, invention could wait until I had my hands in soapy dishwater > and couldn't actually read. Any time when I could read the actual > words of the novels would be spent doing exactly that, not inventing > my own version of the tale. By inventing a role for herself, she becomes more a part of the story than an observer, and it is a way of escaping. Even if I read the book, I can make up roles that aren't there. Call it a way of "improving" the book, changing it to the way _you_ want it to be. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 132 *********************************