MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 135 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu (Allison Squires) 2) Re: Just a little comment while reading Storm Rising... by asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu (Allison Squires) 3) Re: Just finished Magic's Price. by asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu (Allison Squires) 4) Re: From Black, white to Silver Gry (not a spoiler) by KERISH-+AT+-SPHINX.TAMU.EDU 5) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Mat Timmerman 6) Re: Firecats by wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) 7) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 8) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Gyrfalcon 9) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Adrienne York 10) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Adrienne York 11) Talia in Karse by "Angela M." 12) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 13) Re: Firecats by Mat Timmerman 14) Sword and Sorceress III by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 15) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Mat Timmerman 16) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Elise M Packee 17) Re: kind of a spoiler, but not really.... by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 18) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 19) Re: From Black, white to Silver Gry (not a spoiler) by AndraNY-+AT+-aol.com 20) Re: Firecats by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 21) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 22) Re: Firecats by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 23) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Jennifer 24) Vanyel's Gifts by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 25) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu (Allison Squires) 26) Re: birthday cake by lwilbur-+AT+-pacificnet.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 10:16:28 -0400 (EDT) From: asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu (Allison Squires) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509111416.KAA22908-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu> Since Elspeth's Gwena is grove born and she is a mage, wouldn't it be logical that all mage's companion's are grove born since the mage would require additional channeled power from the companion? Another idea, do grove borns live longer than regular companions since magic tend to prolong life? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 10:18:39 -0400 (EDT) From: asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu (Allison Squires) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Just a little comment while reading Storm Rising... Message-ID: <199509111418.KAA23384-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu> Valdemaren version of prozac would perhaps be a presecription form of trandust? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 10:19:58 -0400 (EDT) From: asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu (Allison Squires) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Just finished Magic's Price. Message-ID: <199509111419.KAA23633-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu> Me personally, I would like to hear the story of Selenay growing up to the time right before Talia arrives. That would also cover backround about her father and the Tedrel wars. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 9:54:33 -0500 (CDT) From: KERISH-+AT+-SPHINX.TAMU.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: From Black, white to Silver Gry (not a spoiler) Message-ID: <950911095433.20800702-+AT+-SPHINX.TAMU.EDU> In a message dated 95-09-04 15:20:01 EDT, you write: >>From talking with Larry online a few weeks ago, Silver Gryphon was a week >or two from being finished, so I expect it's done by now. > >Diamond NightDreamer > > I too have heard that Silver Gryphon has been sent in and Larry is working on the illustrations. Shouldn't be long now! :) Diana ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 11:00:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <01HV5B76T2LU9C2O2K-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> > From: Kerry Mealing > > SPOILER > > > > > > > > > Someone did wonder a little while ago (sorry, can't remember whom) whether > Yfandes was grove-born given the amount of responsibility Vanyel had to > face. Of course that rather avoids the question, but it might have some > bearing. On the other-hand, perhaps the reason Van wasn't chosen by Taver > was because he was already chosen. :) > > The Queen's Own companion not dying when his (always a stallion remember) > herald does, might suggest a slightly different life-bond between herald & > companion? OTOH (why am I beginning to sound octopoid?) I'm not totally > convinced personally, that the companion dies as a matter of course when > the herald does - Keren was saved when her life-bond with Ylsa was severed > & companion-bond is supposedly similar. Besides, if this wasn't the case, > Leareth's raven-construct wouldn't have bothered to take out Savil's > companion when he was in *shock* (shock, not dying) from Savil's death. > Someone already mentioned it, but Savil tells Vanyel, when he wants to suicide after 'Lendel's death, that Yfandes would pine herself to death if he did. > > Incidently, on this line, I'd tend to put Yfandes as a grove-born, partly > because of Van's major role to play in Valdemaar and partly because she > stays on with him in the Forest of Sorrows - can you imagine how lonely > that would get as a human reborn, even with a life-bonded. Van at least > had Stef, but poor Yfandes was the odd one out. If she was a guardian > spirit though then she presumably had more freedom than Van & Stef, even > if she chose to stay with them out of love & loyalty. > On the grove-born side is Yfandes' fetching herself *and* Stefan, not once > but multiple times, across a distance that took companions 2-3 days hard > ride. And she did it both ways - taking Stef to base & returning to Van. > And she wouldn't have been using nodes near Van because she wouldn't have > wanted to use power that he'd desperately need. > Something else about that Fetching implies Grove-birth. ****Possible Storm Warning & Rising Spoilers**** Well, in SW, when Karal finds out about Altra'a teleport thing, isn't it mentioned that that's one of the differences between Firecats and Companions. I'm _positive_ that he says it about the Gates btw Firecats, but I'm not sure about the other. If he did say that it was something that Companions couldn't do, it would seem to imply that Yfandes wasn't an ordinary Companion. Mat T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 12:48:25 -0700 From: wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: <199509111948.MAA21024-+AT+-ix9.ix.netcom.com> >I do actually have something to say. I'm sure it has occured to many that >Lendel and Stefen are in many ways opposites, in relation to Vanyel. >Vanyel wanted to be a Bard, Stef is. Lendel was a herald-mage, Vanyel is. >Lendel was older, Vanyel is older. In fact, Vanyel has sort of become a >more powerful Lendel and Stefen a more Gifted Vanyel. > >Comments? People telling me I'm an idiot and this is how Lendel and Stef >are alike and Vanyel is unchanged? All are welcome as long as they >provide specific evidence from the text... :) (Catherine's English class >is getting to her already, and its only been two days... in that case, >pure speculation is welcome also.) > So basically what you're saying (if I may expound on this a moment) is that Van and Lendel switched places... I like the idea! It's possible that it was a way to keep Van from becoming dependent on his Shay'Kreth'Ashke (Sp?) (for those not fluent in Teledras it loosely translates to "lifebonded").... Bravo! - Shadow-Lover Crimson sweat and bloodstained tears Light is what the darkness fears. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:09:54 -0400 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509112209.AA03960-+AT+-water.waterw.com> >On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Jeanne Hedge wrote: > >> Sounds like what's UNcommon is for >> somebody who hasn't been Chosen already to be Chosen to be the new MOC. > >Never thought about that. But my question is still the same as the first >time this came up, last year. What happens to the first Companion? (Not >disagreeing that it happens, because it obviously does. Just wondering >what the explanation behind it would be.) > >I\/ Catherine Osborne "I will not go down to >I\/ Sundancer posterity talking bad >I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu grammar." >I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ --Disraeli Some folks have proposed that the Herald-Companion link between the MO-"designee", as it were, and the Companion doing the original Choosing is weaker than the standard H-C link. Sort of like that Companion knows that he/she's only on "temp", and is responsible for taking care of the MO-to-be until the time comes. Of course I have no idea if that's how it's supposed to work, but it makes about as much sense as anything else I've heard. Jeanne Hedge jhedge-+AT+-water.waterw.com ======================= "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink..." --Samuel Taylor Coleridge, 'The Rime of the Ancient Mariner' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:00:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Allison Squires wrote: > Since Elspeth's Gwena is grove born and she is a mage, wouldn't it be > logical that all mage's companion's are grove born since the mage would > require additional channeled power from the companion? Another idea, do > grove borns live longer than regular companions since magic tend to > prolong life? No, they remark that Gwena is grove born because Elspeth would be the "First" of the new Herald Mages. She (Elspeth) required the additional power and gifts of the Grove born companions. (Like the mage channel, the extra tight bond, and the ability to communicate through any shields.) Likewise that is a good reason for Yfandes (sp) to be grove born. My .000000002 cents, (My net worth is REALLY low right now) --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:49:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Jeanne Hedge wrote: > >On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Jeanne Hedge wrote: > > > >> Sounds like what's UNcommon is for > >> somebody who hasn't been Chosen already to be Chosen to be the new MOC. > > > >Never thought about that. But my question is still the same as the first > >time this came up, last year. What happens to the first Companion? (Not > >disagreeing that it happens, because it obviously does. Just wondering > >what the explanation behind it would be.) > > > >I\/ Catherine Osborne "I will not go down to > >I\/ Sundancer posterity talking bad > >I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu grammar." > >I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ --Disraeli > > > Some folks have proposed that the Herald-Companion link between the > MO-"designee", as it were, and the Companion doing the original Choosing is > weaker than the standard H-C link. Sort of like that Companion knows that > he/she's only on "temp", and is responsible for taking care of the MO-to-be > until the time comes. Of course I have no idea if that's how it's supposed > to work, but it makes about as much sense as anything else I've heard. > > Jeanne Hedge > > jhedge-+AT+-water.waterw.com > ======================= > "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink..." > --Samuel Taylor Coleridge, 'The Rime of the Ancient Mariner' > Does the original H-C link *have* to go away? You can have a triple life-bond. Why not have more than one Companion? Or else, perhaps the old Companion gets a new Herald. I don't know. It's just a guess. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:53:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Allison Squires wrote: > Since Elspeth's Gwena is grove born and she is a mage, wouldn't it be > logical that all mage's companion's are grove born since the mage would > require additional channeled power from the companion? Another idea, do > grove borns live longer than regular companions since magic tend to > prolong life? > I don't think so. Gwena was grove born because Elspeth is at the center of a lot of weird happenings, is a mage of unusual strength, and is the first herald-mage since Vanyel. Besides that, the child is hard-headed. On whether grove borns live longer than regular companions, Gwena said that all regular companions use magic for endurance and other stuff. I doubt that anybody but the MOC lives extra long. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:56:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Angela M." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Talia in Karse Message-ID: I've been rereading Storm Warnings, and I've come up with a question. The way they talk about Talia and her experiences in Karse, it sounds like there's a short story out there that I've missed. It was the same with the way this was handled in the Mage Winds books. Kinda like there's something I'm missing. Does anyone know about this? *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Angela M. Murray |"Darkness has a hunger that's Nazareth College of Rochester, NY |insatiable, and lightness has a call Art Education * (ammurray-+AT+-orion.naz.edu)|that's hard to hear..." -I. Girls *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ___ ___ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:46:39 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509112341.AA161162882-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> > Original comment > In rereading the LHM books I encountered two things that I would like to get > opinions on. In Magics Promise Vanyel stated that he thought he would be > chosen by Taver as Queen's Own when Lancir died. Since he already had a > bonded Companion in Yfandes what would have happened if he had been chosen > instead of Shavri (in other statements it was said that a presumptive Queen's > Own could be chosen by a companion other then the Queen's Own but it would be > an unbonded choosing until he/she would be chosen at the death of the current > Queens Own) Someone else mentioned Teren's explanation of the role of MO and the process of choosing MO (Monarch's Own) - about how common that it was Heralds or soon to be Heralds to be chosen as MO. I personally don't think Vanyel had any chance of ever being MO, according to something Yfandes said that she knew that their bonding would come to that final battle with Leareth. Vanyel was too necessary to the good of Valdemar as a Herald-Mage since he was one of the most powerful Herald-Mages that Valdemar had seen than as a MOC despite his later aid to Randal in taking over Shavri's authority. > Other Comments >Hmm. That *is* an interesting proposition. I'd have to say I disagree for >pure lack of proof. Exhibit A: the birth of Gwena. When it happened, >people were there to witness it, even though they forgot later, the >readers knew. Also it was eventually found out, also Yfandes has *never* >displayed the kind of inexperience and lack of past lives that Gwena does >almost constantly. Who says someone with a big job to do needs a >Grove-Born? As far as I can see, its just a special circumstance of birth >and some extra magical power, with tradition about the MO attached to >it. Yfandes, with her obvious ancient wisdom etc., did IMHO far more for >Vanyel than Gwena has ever done for Elspeth. > It was mentioned that Yfandes ran alone, as she put it, for at least ten years before bonding to Vanyel, so she had a lot of opportunities to learn about humans and such. I think it was when Vanyel joined her in her stall at the Ashkevron keep. >Never thought about that. But my question is still the same as the first >time this came up, last year. What happens to the first Companion? (Not >disagreeing that it happens, because it obviously does. Just wondering >what the explanation behind it would be.) About the first Companion to whom the MO had bonded prior to their bonding to the Monarch's Own Companion, it was suggested at one point that, the Companions anticipate future MO's such that if it was necessary the presumed MO would be chosen, but not bonded to, by that first Companion. This was in reference to Jisa and her failure to be Chosen early on. It was known that she was going to be MO when her mother Shavri died (LHM). As to the death of the other half of the bonded pair upon the death of the other (ie. Companion/Herald or life-bondeds). I thought it was generally implied that the other died because they, as Savil described it, "would pine themselves to death". Someone queried why Keren didn't die when Ylsa died - she almost did, only Talia's intervention and the luck in having Sherill (?) to give Keren something else to focus upon. My 0.02 cents..... Helen h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 18:52:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: <01HV5RQ3RUQA9C2FMH-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Catherine Osborne > I do actually have something to say. I'm sure it has occured to many that > Lendel and Stefen are in many ways opposites, in relation to Vanyel. > Vanyel wanted to be a Bard, Stef is. Lendel was a herald-mage, Vanyel is. > Lendel was older, Vanyel is older. In fact, Vanyel has sort of become a > more powerful Lendel and Stefen a more Gifted Vanyel. This reminded me of somthing that I wondered if anyone else noticed. Is it just me, or does Vanyel actually have the Bardic Gift? I know that Bard Breda says he dosen't, but Savil sort of says he does. This is after 'Lendel's death, when Savil lists Van's new Gifts. She says something like, "..and as if the gods were trying to repay him [Van] for his loss, the Bardic Gift.", or somthing like that anyway (me-+AT+-school, books-+AT+-home). But if this is so, why was it never mentioned (to my memory, anyway) again? He plays after that, like in MPrice. I never actually realized what Savil meant until about my second re-read, tho. Am I just dim or somthing? :) Mat T. -- Mat Timmerman mtimmerman1-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 17:24:59 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Sword and Sorceress III Message-ID: <950911172459.21a21596-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> Now that I have your attention... yes it's not a typo. I was at CopperCon here in Phoenix, and I found a copy of S&S III in the dealer's room. That's the one with the very first Tarma and Kethry story in it. Now, I'm not *just* bringing this up to brag, although a little bragging is fun The guy had another copy, and after securing mine, I said, "You know, you could be selling these for twice that and we'd still pay it. They're very hard to come by, I've been looking for it for 2 years" And he told me "Nyah, I have another 4 or 5 copies of this." Anyway, I got his business card, and if people are interested will post it. However, I don't know that he will ship out of town. If people are really interested, and he won't ship out of town, I will be willing to purchase copies paid for in advance and ship them out. If anyone's interested in the info, let me know. If several people express interest, I'll post the bus card info. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 20:25:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <01HV5UXNFD0Y9NCWJU-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Catherine Osborne > On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Jeanne Hedge wrote: > > > >I still think Yfandes Grove-Born. :=) > > Hmm. That *is* an interesting proposition. I'd have to say I disagree for > pure lack of proof. Exhibit A: the birth of Gwena. When it happened, > people were there to witness it, even though they forgot later, the > readers knew. Also it was eventually found out, also Yfandes has *never* > displayed the kind of inexperience and lack of past lives that Gwena does > almost constantly. Who says someone with a big job to do needs a > Grove-Born? As far as I can see, its just a special circumstance of birth > and some extra magical power, with tradition about the MO attached to > it. Yfandes, with her obvious ancient wisdom etc., did IMHO far more for > Vanyel than Gwena has ever done for Elspeth. > Sounds good to me. I never really believed that Yfandes was Grove-Born. There seems to be some possible evidence that she was, but I'm not so sure. When I think about it, it seems more like, in her love for Vanyel, she did things that Companions _can_ do, but are supposed to keep hidden. Like all Companions can speak to anyone, but rarely do. To contradict what I said earlier today, her Fetching thing in MPrice was most likely not proof of being Grove-Born, but of her not giving a damn about the _Rules_ when it could help Van. > > > Sounds like what's UNcommon is for > > somebody who hasn't been Chosen already to be Chosen to be the new MOC. > > Never thought about that. But my question is still the same as the first > time this came up, last year. What happens to the first Companion? (Not > disagreeing that it happens, because it obviously does. Just wondering > what the explanation behind it would be.) > I think that the old Companion just Chooses someone else (i.e. his/her _true_ Chosen). In MPrice, Van says that the soon-to-be MO, gets Chosen, but not bonded. It's possible that the Companion knows (and doesn't inform the Chosen) that the Chosen is the next MO. In that case, when the new MO is finally Chosen by the MOC, the old Companion just Chooses the one he/she is really meant for. All IMHO, of course :) Mat T. -- Mat Timmerman mtimmerman1-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 19:06:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Elise M Packee To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: Gyrefalcon, the quote in your sign off block thingy...who is that... it is beautiful! Danaa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 21:41:52 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: kind of a spoiler, but not really.... Message-ID: <199509120141.VAA07698-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Aphrael wrote: >Did _Storm Rising's_ cover, with Solaris resplendant in Egyptian >style sun-robes, not sit quite right with anybody else? I'd kind of >always thought that Karsite society had a Germanic flavor to it, >myself. And I have always *hated* that pointy-turban-thingy Jody Lee >puts on Karal.... While I haven't yet gotten around to buying _SR_, I never thought of the Karsite society as Germanic in flavor. Something more Semitic or Middle Eastern comes to mind, really. The reason for this is the combination of the descriptions of the language (beautiful, liquid gabble (_BtS_) and gutturals (_SW_)) and the solar-focused, very real religion. I've never thought of German as beautiful or liquid and the Germanic native religions I know about were all lunar-focused, so... -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 21:55:11 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509120155.VAA07701-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> SariKr wrote: >In rereading the LHM books I encountered two things that I would like to get >opinions on. In Magics Promise Vanyel stated that he thought he would be >chosen by Taver as Queen's Own when Lancir died. Since he already had a >bonded Companion in Yfandes what would have happened if he had been chosen >instead of Shavri (in other statements it was said that a presumptive Queen's >Own could be chosen by a companion other then the Queen's Own but it would be >an unbonded choosing until he/she would be chosen at the death of the current >Queens Own) I don't think a bonded Herald could be Chosen Monarch's Own. I also think Van's expectation that he would be chosen King's Own was made up mostly of conceit on Van's part. His Empathy really wasn't strong enough, and even though he has a very good head on his shoulders and so on, I don't think he had the necessary wisp of MindHealing which is IMO needed by the Monarch's Own. >In Magic's Price Starwind and Moondance are convinced that Stefan is 'Lendal >uhm , "reincarnatied" (for lack of better phrase) yet Vanyel is visited by >the "spirit" of 'Lendal telling him it is ok for him to be with Stef. Were >Starwind and Moondance wrong or was there a part of Lendal that lived on in >Stefan??? When Vanyel was given the choice to stay or enter the Haven's >Jaysen was there to say goodbye but he didn't have the chance to say goodbye >to Lendal which would have given him the closure he needed in that >relationship. Any comments???? Ah, if 'Lendel was reincarnated as Stef, then his spirit was Stef's spirit. Since it isn't generally thought to be a good idea for spirits to wander great distances while their bodies are alive, it's not all that surprising that his first appearance to Van was so late. After all, Van wasn't in anything resembling a receptive mood immediately afterwards, and 'Lendel/Stef probably wasn't sufficiently calm and resigned for the interview either, and thereafter, 'Lendel/Stef was tied to Stef's body, which was singing in the streets for his bread. I also don't think that visitting with 'Lendel's spirit immediately after 'Lendel's death would have given Van closure, since he was still mostly suicidal. In the half year or so that it takes Van to get to the point where he understands the Heraldic compulsion, I think 'Lendel/Stef was out of ghostly circulation again and unavailable until 'triggered' again by intimate contact. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 21:54:39 -0400 From: AndraNY-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: From Black, white to Silver Gry (not a spoiler) Message-ID: <950911215427_16731654-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> >>>I too have heard that Silver Gryphon has been sent in and Larry is working on the illustrations. Shouldn't be long now!<<< I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if the manuscript just went to the publisher it could be a year or more before the books are in the stores. I am a book editor and I am currently working on books--at that stage--that will be released in Fall 1996. Maybe it's a rush thing though. We can all hope... -Andra ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 21:03:45 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: <199509120158.AA036301107-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> >From: Catherine Osborne >> I do actually have something to say. I'm sure it has occured to many that >> Lendel and Stefen are in many ways opposites, in relation to Vanyel. >> Vanyel wanted to be a Bard, Stef is. Lendel was a herald-mage, Vanyel is. >> Lendel was older, Vanyel is older. In fact, Vanyel has sort of become a >> more powerful Lendel and Stefen a more Gifted Vanyel. > >This reminded me of somthing that I wondered if anyone else noticed. >Is it just me, or does Vanyel actually have the Bardic Gift? I know >that Bard Breda says he dosen't, but Savil sort of says he does. This >is after 'Lendel's death, when Savil lists Van's new Gifts. She says >something like, "..and as if the gods were trying to repay him [Van] >for his loss, the Bardic Gift.", or somthing like that anyway (me-+AT+-school, >books-+AT+-home). But if this is so, why was it never mentioned (to my memory, >anyway) again? He plays after that, like in MPrice. I never actually >realized what Savil meant until about my second re-read, tho. Am I just >dim or somthing? :) > >Mat T. It does say that, because of the fact that his Gifts were blasted open, Vanyel ended up having ALL of the various gifts, including Healing, Bardic, Mage, Empathy, Mind, etc. But they were of various strengths - his Healing gift was minor (he was only barely able to keep from getting worse after those Bandits ravaged him as that Healer observed) so maybe his Bardic gift was minor too which is why it wasn't really mentioned again. Particularly considering his Mage Gift was so strong that was the Gift that ended up being used the most. Helen h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 22:21:32 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509120221.WAA07705-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Kerry Mealing wrote: >Someone did wonder a little while ago (sorry, can't remember whom) whether >Yfandes was grove-born given the amount of responsibility Vanyel had to >face. Of course that rather avoids the question, but it might have some >bearing. On the other-hand, perhaps the reason Van wasn't chosen by Taver >was because he was already chosen. :) I don't think that Yfandes was Grove-born. First, because it took Rolan calling for most of a night for Gwena to arrive for Elspeth, and no Companion, much less Taver, had that kind of time when Van needed a Companion *now*. Second, because I don't think having a Gift is unique to the Grove-born. Unless Florian is now also to be Grove-born (he's a Mage, after all, not just a channel). As with humans, most of them are MindSpeakers (they use it to talk to each other and their Herald), but some of them are bound to have other Gifts, from the Mage-Gift to Fetching to FireStarting if that was ever needed. Remember that all of the Companions have the ability to draw power from the nodes (that's how their coats and hooves stay white and silver-y and how they get their extraordinary speed and endurance). I still think that Gwena was Grove-born because all of those who'd grown up with Elspeth (Companions don't Choose till they're 10 or older, remember), knew her as the Royal Brat, and focused themselves on someone else, so there was no born-Companion who was oriented towards Elspeth. Being an Adept-potential Mage was probably the reason *why* she urgently needed to have a Companion, though, so that she could be properly guided and wouldn't discover her Mage Gift on her own. (Can you imagine an un-Chosen and bitter Elspeth discovering that she could manipulate those pretty colors she saw with her FarSight? *shiver*) Finally, I think that, if Yfandes had been Grove-born, Misty would've shown us that she was, the way she showed us that Gwena was Grove-born. >The Queen's Own companion not dying when his (always a stallion remember) >herald does, might suggest a slightly different life-bond between herald & >companion? OTOH (why am I beginning to sound octopoid?) I'm not totally >convinced personally, that the companion dies as a matter of course when >the herald does - Keren was saved when her life-bond with Ylsa was severed >& companion-bond is supposedly similar. Besides, if this wasn't the case, >Leareth's raven-construct wouldn't have bothered to take out Savil's >companion when he was in *shock* (shock, not dying) from Savil's death. The Companion *usually* dies, for the same reasons that the left-living half of a lifebond usually dies: lack of the will to live. The Monarch's Own's Companion seems to be possessed of a great deal of will and an overdose of Heraldic responsibility, which probably keeps him going for as long as necessary. He's probably deeply saddened when his Herald dies, but not enough to just give up the will to live, not when his wisdom is urgently needed to pick out another Monarch's Own... >Incidently, on this line, I'd tend to put Yfandes as a grove-born, partly >because of Van's major role to play in Valdemaar and partly because she >stays on with him in the Forest of Sorrows - can you imagine how lonely >that would get as a human reborn, even with a life-bonded. Van at least >had Stef, but poor Yfandes was the odd one out. If she was a guardian >spirit though then she presumably had more freedom than Van & Stef, even >if she chose to stay with them out of love & loyalty. *All* Companions are guardian spirits. The Grove-born are just of a "higher order" or some such. As for being the odd one out, I don't know if that applies quite so much in this case, since Yfandes had a really strong bond with Vanyel which lasted longer than his bonds to 'Lendel and Stef combined (the years without 'Lendel/Stef don't really count towards the bond, IMO). It's not as if they were incarnate and had a limitted amount of time to spend together, in pairs or as a trio. I don't either jealousy or boredom was likely to crop up as a problem, for any of them... Ina wrote: >else... What I mean is, perhaps even Tylendel's death was _known_ and >planned, to bring out Vanyel? And would Vanyel have been the person >he became, if Tylendel had not died? I don't think 'Lendel's death was planned or even known, because that's just not how Misty's powers of Light seem to operate. If Ulrich's death wasn't planned or kown about (and Altra says it wasn't), why would 'Lendel's've been? It's much more likely that 'Lendel's and Ulrich's deaths fall into the same category: it wasn't supposed to happen that way, but it did, and now we have to make the best of it. Even if 'Lendel hadn't died, my bet is that Van's Gifts would've woken by contact with 'Lendel, even at a lower level than being used as a Gate-energy source. He might not have been as individually powerful in that case, but he and 'Lendel together would've been at least as good and they would've been trained as a pair by both Savil (an Adept who could teach concert-work) and the Tayledras (since Savil was planning to take them both to Starwind). Together, they might even have been able to stop Leareth's machinations earlier, simply by being able to be in two places at the same time and thereby pick up on more clues and put them together faster. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 22:25:14 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: <199509120225.WAA07708-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> William Jones wrote: >Shay'Kreth'Ashke (Sp?) (for those not fluent in Teledras it loosely >translates to "lifebonded").... Bravo! Shay'kreth'ashke is 'same-sex lifebonded'. Ashke is 'beloved'. My guess is that kreth'ashke is 'lifebonded', but I don't remember it ever being used in the books. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 03:22:14 +0100 From: Jennifer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509112221.aa24610-+AT+-buffnet1.buffnet.net> >> From: Kerry Mealing >> > SPOILER >> > >> > >> >(lots of snipping...) >> > >> >> >> The Queen's Own companion not dying when his (always a stallion remember) >> herald does, might suggest a slightly different life-bond between herald & >> companion? OTOH (why am I beginning to sound octopoid?) I'm not totally >> convinced personally, that the companion dies as a matter of course when >> the herald does - Keren was saved when her life-bond with Ylsa was severed >> & companion-bond is supposedly similar. Besides, if this wasn't the case, >> Leareth's raven-construct wouldn't have bothered to take out Savil's >> companion when he was in *shock* (shock, not dying) from Savil's death. >> > >Yes, its true that Keren survived the severing of her lifebond with Ylsa (so, for that matter, did Vanel) but I have to wonder if she would have survived had the bond she shared with Sherril not existed. Remember, Sherril was the only one who could keep her from willing herself to death. >< > >> >> > > Peace to all Jennifer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- I made the choice to become a Herald, and if I knew I was going to die tomorrow, I still wouldn't choose otherwise. -Talia (Arrows of the Queen) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 22:29:23 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Vanyel's Gifts Message-ID: <199509120229.WAA07711-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Mat Timmerman wrote: >This reminded me of somthing that I wondered if anyone else noticed. >Is it just me, or does Vanyel actually have the Bardic Gift? I know >that Bard Breda says he dosen't, but Savil sort of says he does. This >is after 'Lendel's death, when Savil lists Van's new Gifts. She says >something like, "..and as if the gods were trying to repay him [Van] >for his loss, the Bardic Gift.", or somthing like that anyway (me-+AT+-school, >books-+AT+-home). But if this is so, why was it never mentioned (to my memory, >anyway) again? He plays after that, like in MPrice. I never actually >realized what Savil meant until about my second re-read, tho. Am I just >dim or somthing? :) Breda's evaluation is before 'Lendel's death, and the Bardic Gift that Van ends up with is more minor than his Healing Gift, to my recollection. This probably means that he can suggest vague things if he really tries hard through his Bardic Gift, but that it would take a *lot* of energy and generally not be the most efficient way of going about convincing someone. Because of this, he never invokes it 'on-camera', so we never hear about it again. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 23:16:32 -0400 (EDT) From: asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu (Allison Squires) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509120316.XAA25980-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu> One thing to remember about Yfandes...she was a companion who had not chosen for a VERY long time. We are not aware of her age or past experiences therefore the possibility of her being grove born and acquiring experience in some way (through other companions perhaps?) is possible. Maybe something like Florian in Storm Rising? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 22:56:06 -0700 From: lwilbur-+AT+-pacificnet.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: birthday cake Message-ID: <199509120556.AA29392-+AT+-relay.interserv.com> on Sept.11 Catherine Osborne copied: Happy Birthday! Will there be a virtual cake? <> <> Matt J OK, I'm going on vacation, but my birthday is 9-17. Is anybody going to save an extra piece of cake that I could eat later? -Lee -Lee W, The home of friendly but smelly dogs. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 135 *********************************