MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 136 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Ina Faye-Lund 2) Vanyel's gifts ( was Re: Firecats) by "Tarja Rainio" 3) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Ina Faye-Lund 4) Re: Talia in Karse by Ina Faye-Lund 5) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by "Scarlett E. Blizzard" 6) Re: Firecats by Ina Faye-Lund 7) Re: Firecats by skinch-+AT+-metronet.com (Stephen P. Kinch) 8) re: LHM(SPOILER) by "Scarlett E. Blizzard" 9) Re: Sword and Sorceress III by joan_ferguson-+AT+-harvard.edu (Joan Ferguson) 10) Gwena as a Grove-Born Companion by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 11) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 12) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 13) Re: Talia in Karse by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 14) Re: Firecats by Mat Timmerman 15) Fetching by KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com 16) I'm back...um by Rosario Holsen-Baker 17) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by nomib-+AT+-chem.psu.edu (Naomi) 18) SPOILER ALERT: OK, a new thread... by "Aphrael" 19) Re: SPOILERS!! Storm Rising Musings by "Aphrael" 20) Re: From Black, white to Silver Gry (not a spoiler) by asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu (Allison Squires) 21) re: LHM(SPOILER) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 22) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Adrienne York 23) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Scya-+AT+-aol.com 24) Re: SPOILER ALERT: OK, a new thread... by "Sandy Haas" 25) Re: Firecats by Adrienne York ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 08:11:38 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509120611.23664.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Mon, 11 Sep 1995 15:20:47 +0100, Catherine Osborne said: > On Mon, 11 Sep 1995, Jeanne Hedge wrote: >> >I still think Yfandes Grove-Born. :=) > Hmm. That *is* an interesting proposition. I'd have to say I > disagree for pure lack of proof. Exhibit A: the birth of Gwena. When > it happened, people were there to witness it, even though they > forgot later, the readers knew. Also it was eventually found out, > also Yfandes has *never* displayed the kind of inexperience and lack > of past lives that Gwena does almost constantly. Who says someone > with a big job to do needs a Grove-Born? As far as I can see, its > just a special circumstance of birth and some extra magical power, > with tradition about the MO attached to it. Yfandes, with her > obvious ancient wisdom etc., did IMHO far more for Vanyel than Gwena > has ever done for Elspeth. Hmmm...what about Yfandes being Grove-Born, and had lived for some time to get the experience needed? Just some wild thoughts....cause I like the idea..... >> Sounds like what's UNcommon is for somebody who hasn't been Chosen >> already to be Chosen to be the new MOC. > Never thought about that. But my question is still the same as the first > time this came up, last year. What happens to the first Companion? (Not > disagreeing that it happens, because it obviously does. Just wondering > what the explanation behind it would be.) I've been wondering about that too. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 10:20:10 EET DST From: "Tarja Rainio" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Vanyel's gifts ( was Re: Firecats) Message-ID: <11F77A3C07-+AT+-katk.helsinki.fi> Mat Timmerman wrote: >Is it just me, or does Vanyel actually have the Bardic Gift? I know >that Bard Breda says he dosen't, but Savil sort of says he does. This >is after 'Lendel's death, when Savil lists Van's new Gifts. She says >something like, "..and as if the gods were trying to repay him [Van] >for his loss, the Bardic Gift.", or somthing like that anyway (me-+AT+-school, >books-+AT+-home). But if this is so, why was it never mentioned (to my >memory, anyway) again? [snip] I remember that part, too. Sayvil clearly says that Van now has the Bardic gift that he so much wanted. Perhaps it is not mentioned later, because before the gifts "activation", Van's only ambition - and the way he thought to escape his family - was to become a Bard. But after he was Chosen, there was so much else to do, perhaps the Bardic gift was no longer so important now that he had the Mage gift and all those other gifts... Just a thought, Tarja ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 09:53:51 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509120753.24126.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Mon, 11 Sep 1995 15:35:35 +0100, asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu said: > Since Elspeth's Gwena is grove born and she is a mage, wouldn't it be > logical that all mage's companion's are grove born since the mage would > require additional channeled power from the companion? Another idea, do > grove borns live longer than regular companions since magic tend to > prolong life? No, I don't think so. I would rather think that it was natural that Gwena would be Grove-Born because Elspeth needed something special, as the first Herald-Mage since Vanyel. IFL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 09:57:10 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia in Karse Message-ID: <199509120757.24153.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Tue, 12 Sep 1995 00:33:35 +0100, "Angela M." said: > I've been rereading Storm Warnings, and I've come up with a question. > The way they talk about Talia and her experiences in Karse, it sounds > like there's a short story out there that I've missed. It was the same > with the way this was handled in the Mage Winds books. Kinda like > there's something I'm missing. > Does anyone know about this? Now, I haven't gotten my hands on Storm Warnings yet, but my impression is that Mercedes Lackey often uses this, hinting to stories that she has not written. I don't know the story you mention, nor do I want to know it before Storm Warning comes to Norway, but...:=) -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 95 9:51:43 CDT (0751Z) From: "Scarlett E. Blizzard" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509120757.AA21699-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> <> "Jenneke" wrote: I don't think that Yfandes was Grove-born. First, because it took Rolan calling for most of a night for Gwena to arrive for Elspeth, and no Companion, much less Taver, had that kind of time when Van needed a Companion *now*. <> What series is the above situation with Rolan and Gwena from.... I read all of the Arrows Series, appx a year ago, but I only have in my posession the 1st and 3rd book (missing the 2nd one). I have all of the Winds series though and if I remember correctly she was already established as Chosen by Gwena. I'm a little behind in my reading because I like to wait until the entire series is out in paperback, then read them one after the other. I detest having to wait!! I haven't started on the Gryphon books yet. Could someone refresh my memory about which series this is in? Thanks in Advance :) *************************************************************************** * Scarlett (blizzard-+AT+-wurbpmo.wuerzburg.army.mil * * " An old crest on a new wave " * * If I can be serial for a nanosecond, enough of the handshaking, * *let's jack in and process this system! -Enzio (reboot cartoon charecter) * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 10:02:12 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: <199509120802.24262.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> [Mat Timmerman] > This reminded me of somthing that I wondered if anyone else noticed. > Is it just me, or does Vanyel actually have the Bardic Gift? I know > that Bard Breda says he dosen't, but Savil sort of says he does. > This is after 'Lendel's death, when Savil lists Van's new Gifts. > She says something like, "..and as if the gods were trying to repay > him [Van] for his loss, the Bardic Gift.", or somthing like that > anyway (me-+AT+-school, books-+AT+-home). But if this is so, why was it never > mentioned (to my memory, anyway) again? He plays after that, like > in MPrice. I never actually realized what Savil meant until about > my second re-read, tho. Am I just dim or somthing? :) Vanyel always had the _potential_, but his Bardic Gift was not active at that time Breda checked him. I guess that power wasn't as important as his other powers. I mean, his Fire-Starting is not mentioned as far as I can remember. Mainly it is said something about his Mage-Powers (of course), his Fore-Sight (since it is an important part of the story), and that's it. Also, something about the Healing, or selfhealing, is mentioned. What about Fetching? Only time I can remember that being brought up is when Lores challenges him with "I should know that better than you, it is _my_ Gift," and Vanyel replies that he has that gift too. I guess, he never _uses_ it in the books. Who can say anything about the 12 years that passed between Tylendel's death and Magic's Promise? -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 07:07:21 -0500 From: skinch-+AT+-metronet.com (Stephen P. Kinch) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: <199509121207.AA16321-+AT+-metronet.com> >I mean, his Fire-Starting is not >mentioned as far as I can remember. I believe that I remember it being mentioned that (warning bad paraphrase) "Vanyel would never have to worry about starting a fire on a wet night" or.... Something of the nature..... Wishing you Light, Love, and Laughter...... Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 95 14:06:01 CDT (1206Z) From: "Scarlett E. Blizzard" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509121210.AA27937-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Jenneke wrote: >> snip << I don't think that Yfandes was Grove-born. First, because it took Rolan calling for most of a night for Gwena to arrive for Elspeth, and -jenneke >>end of snip<< Can anyone tell me what series/book the above mentioned situation about Gwena and Elspeth took place? The only series I don't have is the Gryphon series. But I can't place in my mind anything about Elspeth meeting her companion. I hope it wasn't in the Arrows series -- I can't locate the second book to that series. Thanks :) *************************************************************************** * Scarlett (blizzard-+AT+-wurbpmo.wuerzburg.army.mil * * " An old crest on a new wave " * * If I can be serial for a nanosecond, enough of the handshaking, * *let's jack in and process this system! -Enzio (reboot cartoon charecter) * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 09:23:32 -0400 From: joan_ferguson-+AT+-harvard.edu (Joan Ferguson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sword and Sorceress III Message-ID: <199509121323.JAA02384-+AT+-elmer.Harvard.EDU> >Now that I have your attention... yes it's not a typo. I was at >CopperCon here in Phoenix, and I found a copy of S&S III in the >dealer's room. That's the one with the very first Tarma and >Kethry story in it. Now, I'm not *just* bringing this up to brag, >although a little bragging is fun The guy had another copy, >and after securing mine, I said, "You know, you could be selling >these for twice that and we'd still pay it. They're very hard to >come by, I've been looking for it for 2 years" And he told me >"Nyah, I have another 4 or 5 copies of this." Anyway, I got his >business card, and if people are interested will post it. However, >I don't know that he will ship out of town. If people are really >interested, and he won't ship out of town, I will be willing to >purchase copies paid for in advance and ship them out. > >If anyone's interested in the info, let me know. If several people >express interest, I'll post the bus card info. > >StarWolf > Me! Me! Me! Please, yes, I am interested!! Joan joan_ferguson-+AT+-harvard.edu Harvard University Library Preservation Office 59 Plympton Street Cambridge MA 02138 "Instead of loving your enemies,treat your friends a little better." -Edgar Watson Howe (1853-1937) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 08:56:31 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Gwena as a Grove-Born Companion Message-ID: <199509121351.AA296583870-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> Scarlett (blizzard-+AT+-wurbpmo.wuerzburg.army.mil) wrote: >Jenneke wrote: > >>> snip << >I don't think that Yfandes was Grove-born. First, because it took >Rolan calling for most of a night for Gwena to arrive for Elspeth, and >-jenneke > >>>end of snip<< > >Can anyone tell me what series/book the above mentioned situation about >Gwena and Elspeth took place? The only series I don't have is the >Gryphon series. But I can't place in my mind anything about Elspeth >meeting her companion. I hope it wasn't in the Arrows series -- I can't >locate the second book to that series. > >Thanks :) Oh well, I hate to break it to you, but it did happen to be in the beginning of the 2nd book in the Arrows trilogy right before Talia left on her internship with Kris. What happened was.....Talia was awakened in the middle of a windy night to see Elspeth walking outside from the Castle (?) to the Grove. Talia went after her and followed her into the Grove. She sees Rolan there working to bring a new Grove-born Companion, Gwena. She sees Gwena Choosing Elspeth and is astonished that Elspeth's Companion is Grove-born. But Rolan made Talia forget all that happened and gave her false memories to cause her to believe that Gwena had been one of the shyer Companions. Talia left Gwena and Elspeth in the Grove to sleep and to bond. She then went to tell Selenay ...saying that she needed Selenay's leave to enter a new trainee into the Collegium's rolls and identifying the new trainee as Elspeth and calling Elspeth Heir in Fact now that she had been Chosen. Talia then spent all day preparing everything to transfer Elspeth into the Herald's Collegium. Helen h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 6:55:44 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <950912065544.21a21596-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> I was very interested in the discussion on Yfandes being grove-born. None of the opinions expressed had ever occurred to me. They way I saw it, Vanyel was a channel (sort of like Karal, but not as strong). He was a channel that was tapable by Tylendel. When the EVENT occured, his channels were all blown open, and he became a great Herald-Mage. But I really think none of it was foreseen, and Vanyel was an accident of the circumstances. As we've seen in Storm Rising: (itsy bitsy semi-non-spoiler to follow) there are a number of unattached companions. (tiny not-really-a spoiler warning off). Perhaps there are even companions that never find their herald. I find it extremely distasteful to imagine that for every companion there is definitely a herald, since that speaks to an extraordinary amount of meddling on the parts of the god/goddess or whoever oversees Valdemar, since they have to look into the future and determine that so-and-so who will be born in 5 years will become a herald, and therefore such and such companion must be born to become that future heralds companion. Blech. I despise that idea. It removes all possibilities of personal will. So I think Van was an accident, and only Yfandes realized he needed help, and stepped in, knowing that AT THAT POINT he was very worthy to become a herald. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 7:03:17 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <950912070317.21a21596-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> Okay, given the current discussion, how about this question: what's the difference between a grove-born and "regular" companion? what special powers do grove-born have? To be honest, I really think that Misty threw in that bit about the next MO being chosen but not bonded, and then being re-chosen by the MOC, and then changed her mind. It just doesn't hold water when you put it next to everything else we know about h-c bonding. We never ever see that occur in any of the books. It's exclusively a side-bar. The one time when it could have applied, with Jisa, she is *not* chosen before she becomes MO, unless it happened after the books ending. We know she's unchosen, but will be chosen by the MOC after her mother dies. The other possibility is that the "choosing" of a future MO by a non-MOC companion is very much like the Florian-Karal relationship. The companion doesn't bond or really choose the future MO, just becomes associated with the future MO so that he/she can be inducted into the herald training program. Finally, on Van's bardic gift, I recall a line in LHM about how ironic it was that with everything that had been taken away, he had been given a strong Bardic Gift. I'll have to look it up again. You know, the only thing that bummed me out about my very first con (which I attended this last weekend) was that there wasn't a Misty panel, so there was no way to pick out the Misty fans. :( It would have made it a perfect weekend to get a chance to meet and discuss with other fans. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 09:05:16 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia in Karse Message-ID: <199509121359.AA014534394-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> >On Tue, 12 Sep 1995 00:33:35 +0100, "Angela M." said: > >> I've been rereading Storm Warnings, and I've come up with a question. >> The way they talk about Talia and her experiences in Karse, it sounds >> like there's a short story out there that I've missed. It was the same >> with the way this was handled in the Mage Winds books. Kinda like >> there's something I'm missing. > >> Does anyone know about this? > > >Now, I haven't gotten my hands on Storm Warnings yet, but my >impression is that Mercedes Lackey often uses this, hinting to stories >that she has not written. > >I don't know the story you mention, nor do I want to know it before >Storm Warning comes to Norway, but...:=) > >-- >IFL > >Elen sla lmenn' omentiel Talia going to Karse happened in the Winds books. This was one of the messages passed on via Gwena's contacting Rolan, mentioned in the 2nd Winds book. In the last Winds book, Kero gives a sketch of how Karse first made contact with Alberich, who initiated the dealings with Karse. Talia ended up going to Karse as Selenay's representative to make the Treaty with them. She ended up being made a Sun Priestess of Karse - why is described in Storm Warning. Some more details are described in Storm Warning - more from the Karsite perspective- but they aren't all that much of a Spoiler. It does sound like good material for its own story but as far as a know it hasn't been told in anything other than as second hand stories told by other characters in ML's books. Maybe it will come out in some anthologies like those tales of how Tarma and Kethry met. Helen h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 11:08:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: <01HV6PNSGD8A9C2LQF-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > [Mat Timmerman] > > > This reminded me of somthing that I wondered if anyone else noticed. > > Is it just me, or does Vanyel actually have the Bardic Gift? I know > > that Bard Breda says he dosen't, but Savil sort of says he does. > > This is after 'Lendel's death, when Savil lists Van's new Gifts. > > She says something like, "..and as if the gods were trying to repay > > him [Van] for his loss, the Bardic Gift.", or somthing like that > > anyway (me-+AT+-school, books-+AT+-home). But if this is so, why was it never > > mentioned (to my memory, anyway) again? He plays after that, like > > in MPrice. I never actually realized what Savil meant until about > > my second re-read, tho. Am I just dim or somthing? :) > > > Vanyel always had the _potential_, but his Bardic Gift was not active > at that time Breda checked him. I guess that power wasn't as > important as his other powers. I mean, his Fire-Starting is not > mentioned as far as I can remember. Mainly it is said something about > his Mage-Powers (of course), his Fore-Sight (since it is an important > part of the story), and that's it. Also, something about the Healing, > or selfhealing, is mentioned. What about Fetching? Only time I can > remember that being brought up is when Lores challenges him with "I > should know that better than you, it is _my_ Gift," and Vanyel replies > that he has that gift too. > > I guess, he never _uses_ it in the books. Who can say anything about > the 12 years that passed between Tylendel's death and Magic's Promise? > IIRC, several times, he uses it to light candles and such. Now, it's never actually said to be Firestarting, and not Mage Gift, but Vanyel has a thing about appropriate Gifts in MPrice. I think he'd use the Firestarting to do just that, start a fire. He also uses Fetching when he destroys the mage-construct that killed Savil. It said he did something like track it with his MageGift, held it down with Fetching, and used Mindspeech(though-sensing and projective) to destroy it's mind. Mat T. -------------------------------- | Mat Timmerman | | mtimmerman1-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu | | mtimme47-+AT+-magic.hofstra.edu | -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 11:58:54 -0400 From: KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Fetching Message-ID: <950912115854_17178314-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> It seems to me that when the books refer to fetching, they refer to at least two different types: Type 1: Fetching involving dematerialization Examples: The type Altra does with his own body (between Karse and Valdamar), Dirk's fetching of Ylsa's arrows at the end of Arrows of the Queen, Dirk fetching Talia at the end of Arrow's fall, ect..... Type 2: No dematerialization Example: Tashir levitating furniture at Vanyel's house in LHM, Yfandes fetching her own body to travel faster with Stefen on her back also in LHM, ect..... I'd be interested in any comments ya'all may have. Kathy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 12:40:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: I'm back...um Message-ID: Uh, hello? I don't know if anyone remembers me, but I was on the list about three months ago. Well, I'm back (in school...damn) and back on the list. My name (for all intents and purposes) is Jaguar and I am now a sophmore in high school. Can anyone give me a brief summary of current debates? With no spoilers for Storm Rising or Silver Gryphon, please, I haven't got those yet, if they're out (I also haven't been to a bookstore lately, my budget being non-existant). --Jaguar-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 13:00:07 -0400 From: nomib-+AT+-chem.psu.edu (Naomi) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509121700.NAA06819-+AT+-portal.chem.psu.edu> > >I still think Yfandes Grove-Born. :=) Yfandes was around for at least 10 years before Vanyel. Don't grove born companions usually choose someone as soon as they arive? Why would she have come 10 years early for Vanyel? As for Vanyel being Kings Own, didn't he expect to be chosen because he was already half doing the job already, and essentialy did everything when Sharvi was King's Own Naomi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 13:14:25 EST From: "Aphrael" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: SPOILER ALERT: OK, a new thread... Message-ID: This involves discussion of both _Storm Warning_ and _Storm Rising_, soooo...... OK, how many votes for the missing consort of Vkandis being the Star-Eyed herself, our very own Kal'enel? Now, I don't have my copy of SW in front of me, but I think Karal referred to the consort, whose worship had disappeared right about when the Son of the Sun became corrupt, as Kalenel. And in the song appendix to _Oathbound_, Misty refers to a male diety worshipped by the Shin'a'in. He seems to be kind of overlooked, and we never catch his name. Finally, I just ran across something in SR that was quite interesting. On p. 328, when Karal is describing Solaris at her most formal (and angry), he lists her various titles: Son of the Sun, Defender of the Faithful, and *Falcon of Light*. Any thoughts? Lyn I am an idealist. | /> Lynore M. Belzer I don't know where | /< 716/379-3034 lbelzer-+AT+-sbu.edu I'm going, but I'm | -+AT+-}XXXXX(-+AT+-):::<=====================- on my way. | \< St. Bonaventure University -Carl Sandburg. | \> aka Aphrael/Sephrenia ___________________|__________________________________________________ As I lay me down to sleep, this I pray: that you will hold me dear, though I'm far away... Sophie B. Hawkins. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 13:32:07 EST From: "Aphrael" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk, lbelzer-+AT+-sbu.edu, Subject: Re: SPOILERS!! Storm Rising Musings Message-ID: SPOILERS DISCUSSED BELOW! :) >>I think he's stuck with them. I think the mage storms induced some kind of >>chemical/hormonal imbalance in his brain. As I said in the other spoiler, >>wonder what the Valdemaran version of prozac is? :) > >I totally disagree. I think after it was pointed out to him what was >happening, he either fixed it himself or got help. Why you ask? Because >by the end of the book, he's back more or less to being himself. I didn't say he was permanently deranged, just that the problem was chronic and not one freak accident. Well, it was, sort of, being the result of the storms, but I think you know what I mean. Here's the quote: "...[Y]ou are ill, Firesong, but it is an illness that few Healers would sense unless they knew what to look for. There are subtle changes pysically in your brain rather than your mind. They have made you quick to anger, slow to reason. They are things that make you see enemies and conspiracies where there are none. Firesong croaked, "So," and then swallowed twice to steady his voice. "So...my own body and brain are no better off than the land." Silverfox nodded and interlaced his fingers. "Thus and so." (312- 13) This is the passage I had in mind when I spoke of Firesong "being stuck" with the harm inflicted upon him by the storms. Again, not that they weren't reversable, just that they would be chronic and he might need to recieve treatment for them for the rest of his life. >>This is also true, since devotion to Valdemar itself is one of the >>things instilled in a Herald, largely, I think, by his >>Companion. > >Is that true? I didn't think so. The companions are dedicated to the >land of Valdemar, true. But I think the Herald must be the sort of >person who can dedicate themselves to the land also, before they are >chosen, and learn to love the land after they are chosen, without >any nudging from the Companions. Of course, you could be right. >Maybe that is implanted by the Companions. Hmmph. I don't think I >like that. I want the Heralds to be free to choose. When I used the word "instilled," I meant it like our parents instill us with certain values. Sometimes, yes this can be flat out dictums (you WILL speak to you elders with respect) but I think with the Companions it's more of a teach-by-example kind of thing. Dedication to Valdemar, or the ability to become dedicated, is almost certainly a requirement for being Chosen, I'll agree. Like you, I want the Heralds to be free to choose for themselves. I'm remided of the end of By the Sword. Kero was technically free to leave Valdemar, even though she'd been Chosen. But unless she wanted to leave Sayvil behind--which was unthinkable--she was stuck with hanging around. There's another story idea I'd like to see. I wonder if any other Skybolts got chosen? Well, that's all for now...can you all tell I'm spending MUCH more time in front of computer screens this semester? :) Later-- Lyn I am an idealist. | /> Lynore M. Belzer I don't know where | /< 716/379-3034 lbelzer-+AT+-sbu.edu I'm going, but I'm | -+AT+-}XXXXX(-+AT+-):::<=====================- on my way. | \< St. Bonaventure University -Carl Sandburg. | \> aka Aphrael/Sephrenia ___________________|__________________________________________________ As I lay me down to sleep, this I pray: that you will hold me dear, though I'm far away... Sophie B. Hawkins. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 13:51:12 -0400 (EDT) From: asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu (Allison Squires) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: From Black, white to Silver Gry (not a spoiler) Message-ID: <199509121751.NAA19915-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu> > > >>>I too have heard that Silver Gryphon has been sent in and Larry is working > on the illustrations. Shouldn't be long now!<<< > > I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if the manuscript just went to the > publisher it could be a year or more before the books are in the stores. > > I am a book editor and I am currently working on books--at that stage--that > will be released in Fall 1996. Maybe it's a rush thing though. We can all > hope... > -Andra > I saw on the Net a list of publishing dates. Silver Gryphon isn't due out until APRIL 96 and then Storrm Breaking will follow in SEPT 96. I wonder if that constitutes torture or not... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 14:14:54 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509121814.OAA08550-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Scarlett E. Blizzard wrote: >Jenneke wrote: >>> snip << >I don't think that Yfandes was Grove-born. First, because it took >Rolan calling for most of a night for Gwena to arrive for Elspeth, and >>>end of snip<< >Can anyone tell me what series/book the above mentioned situation about >Gwena and Elspeth took place? The only series I don't have is the It's in the beginning of _Arrow's Flight_. Talia wakes up in an odd wind storm and can't contact Rolan, because Rolan's entire being is focused on something else. She looks out the window to see Elspeth fighting her way through the wind towards the Grove, tries to contact her, and is caught up by a sense of purpose that takes over everything else. When Talia catches up to Elspeth in the Grove, Gwena is there and Rolan is exhausted. Seems pretty obvious to me that Rolan did the same sort of thing that King Valdemar did, spending lots and lots of energy calling for a Companion. Given how much energy it seems to have taken from Rolan, I highly doubt that there are any more Grove-borns than absolutely necessary, *and* I highly doubt that anyone would spend that kind of energy more than ten years in advance, on the barest chance that Vanyel would grow up into Heraldic material. It seems much more likely that Yfandes was born the normal way, and would have Chosen him earlier if he'd been less spoiled when he first arrived in Haven. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 14:51:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Sep 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: > Okay, given the current discussion, how about this question: > > what's the difference between a grove-born and "regular" companion? > > what special powers do grove-born have? > > > > To be honest, I really think that Misty threw in that bit about the > next MO being chosen but not bonded, and then being re-chosen by > the MOC, and then changed her mind. It just doesn't hold water > when you put it next to everything else we know about h-c bonding. > > We never ever see that occur in any of the books. It's exclusively > a side-bar. The one time when it could have applied, with Jisa, > she is *not* chosen before she becomes MO, unless it happened after > the books ending. We know she's unchosen, but will be chosen by the > MOC after her mother dies. > > The other possibility is that the "choosing" of a future MO by a > non-MOC companion is very much like the Florian-Karal relationship. > The companion doesn't bond or really choose the future MO, just becomes > associated with the future MO so that he/she can be inducted into > the herald training program. > (...) > > StarWolf > (end snip) I think StarWolf has come up with the best two theories so far. That bit about having future MO's "chosen" by someone other than the MOC seems, at best, poorly planned. It almost had the feeling of something Misty missed taking out during the rewrite process. TTFN, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 14:57:58 -0400 From: Scya-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <950912145757_17291905-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 95-09-10 21:31:57 EDT, you write: >In Magic's Price Starwind and Moondance are convinced that Stefan is 'Lendal >uhm , "reincarnatied" (for lack of better phrase) yet Vanyel is visited by >the "spirit" of 'Lendal telling him it is ok for him to be with Stef. Were >Starwind and Moondance wrong or was there a part of Lendal that lived on in >Stefan??? When Vanyel was given the choice to stay or enter the Haven's >Jaysen was there to say goodbye but he didn't have the chance to say goodbye >to Lendal which would have given him the closure he needed in that >relationship. Any comments???? To my mind, on the moonpaths or whatever, time does not correlate the same so that past, present, and future all tend to be...therefore even if Tylendel was Stefen they could still be separate on the moonpaths.....somehow I hope this makes sense.. Scya ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:46:54 EDT From: "Sandy Haas" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SPOILER ALERT: OK, a new thread... Message-ID: <5CA41A1CC2-+AT+-rackham.umich.edu> > This involves discussion of both _Storm Warning_ and _Storm Rising_, > soooo...... > > OK, how many votes for the missing consort of Vkandis being the > Star-Eyed herself, our very own Kal'enel? Now, I don't have my copy > of SW in front of me, but I think Karal referred to the consort, > whose worship had disappeared right about when the Son of the Sun > became corrupt, as Kalenel. And in the song appendix to _Oathbound_, > Misty refers to a male diety worshipped by the Shin'a'in. He seems > to be kind of overlooked, and we never catch his name. Finally, I > just ran across something in SR that was quite interesting. On p. > 328, when Karal is describing Solaris at her most formal (and angry), > he lists her various titles: Son of the Sun, Defender of the > Faithful, and *Falcon of Light*. > > Any thoughts? > > Lyn My thoughts EXACTLY (but I didn't have all those wonderful references-just a hunch when they mentioned the female consort) Sandy (with no nifty sign-off) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 17:04:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Sep 1995, Jennifer S. Broekman wrote: > William Jones wrote: > >Shay'Kreth'Ashke (Sp?) (for those not fluent in Teledras it loosely > >translates to "lifebonded").... Bravo! > > Shay'kreth'ashke is 'same-sex lifebonded'. Ashke is 'beloved'. My > guess is that kreth'ashke is 'lifebonded', but I don't remember it > ever being used in the books. > > -jenneke > > I *am* family. How could I not have family values? > Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy > The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey > broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html > jenneke, are you sure about that. It seems to me that shay'kreth'ashke *is* life-bonded. I think it probably means something like "beloved who is the other half of one's self." I think this because I'm sure I remember shay'kreth'ashke referring to a m/f couple. Also, shay'a'chern was translated by 'Lendel as roughly "one who's lover is like self, with a sexual connotation on self, to indicate that it's not incest or other, similar interests." So my feeling on this one, and it's pure feeling, is that shay is self, and a denotes sexuality. Tell me what you think. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 136 *********************************