MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 138 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 2) Re: SPOILER ALERT: OK, a new thread... by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 3) Re: Van's gifts. by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 4) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 5) Re: Firecats by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 6) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu (Allison Squires) 7) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Adrienne York 8) Re: Don't know if this has been mentioned in LHM thread by Adrienne York 9) Re: Shay'kreth'ashke etc. by Michelle 10) Re: SPOILER ALERT: OK, a new thread... by Adrienne York 11) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Adrienne York 12) Re: Fetching generally. by KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com 13) re: LHM(SPOILER) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 14) David Bahrke wxav85d-+AT+-prodigy.com by MR DAVID W BAHRKE 15) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 16) Wish list by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 17) Re: birthday cake by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 18) Re: oops... by URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com 19) Common Deities (was: OK, a new thread...) by Gyrfalcon 20) Re: LHM (SPOILER) MOC transition by Adrienne York 21) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 22) Re: Firecats by Adrienne York 23) Bedlams Bard by SariKr-+AT+-aol.com 24) SPOILERS. Re: Common Deities by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:12:27 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509131712.NAA09531-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Lill wrote: >Jenneke wrote: > -snip- >>I also don't think that visitting with 'Lendel's >>spirit immediately after 'Lendel's death would have given Van >closure, >>since he was still mostly suicidal. In the half year or so that it >>takes Van to get to the point where he understands the Heraldic >>compulsion, I think 'Lendel/Stef was out of ghostly circulation again >>and unavailable until 'triggered' again by intimate contact. >When Van met with the Shadowdancer it was at least 10 years after Lendal's >death he was 25 or 28 years old when Jayse was killed. Near the end of the >second book when the bloodmagic spell was released on him. So I would think >that if 'Lendal's spirit was there to say goodbye it would have been as good >a time as any. You miss the point. By ten years after 'Lendel's death, his spirit was already quite firmly attached to Stefen's body. Visitting with Van would have required leaving Stef's body untenanted and at a distance for an extended period of time, which is *not* generally considered to be a good idea. The only time when 'Lendel/Stef could have visitted Vanyel without leaving Stef's body unensouled was directly after 'Lendel's suicide, before Stef was born/ensouled, when neither Van nor 'Lendel was really in the proper state of mind. (Also, he met the ShadowLover. Shadowdancer was an early Herald whose lifebonded was the similarly cursed Sunsinger.) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:20:10 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SPOILER ALERT: OK, a new thread... Message-ID: <199509131720.NAA09534-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Allison Squires wrote: >yes, I would say that Star-Eyed is the counterpart to Vkandis. The >legends and typical hints that tend to fall in the books would only make >this a logical theme. However (just for a twist) what about in Oathbound >or Oathbreakers (can't remember which one) when Kethry meets the star >eyed and she tells her that she is no different from her own god Astera? Kethry's god is not Astera. Astera is a northern goddess. Kethry's goddess is the Lady Windborn. >Therefore, does that mean that all of the people in the general region of >Valdemar and beyond are somehow ancestrally related to a common >people--aside from the Kaled'a'in? Sure, we see this in the Gryphon >books but how would that explain the other countries outside the area of >the Mage Wars that would have suffered the effects of the cataclysm at >its worst? Why aside from the Kaled'a'in? If you're going to posit that sharing a deity in the "all gods are one god and all goddesses one goddess" sense implies common ancestry, then the Kaled'a'in must be related to the rest, since the StarEyed is their goddess. Also, in the Mage Wars novels, the only group that's of a single ethnic background is the Kaled'a'in. The rest are as mixed a group as Valdemar in the 'modern' novels. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:28:45 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van's gifts. Message-ID: <199509131728.NAA09549-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Kerry Mealing wrote: >Elise wrote: >> Also in this same area it is stated that Bardic channels were >> opened too. BUt in Magic's Promise, Van tells his nephew that: he could >> never play like Medren, no matter how much he practiced. THe Bardic gift >> was never mentioned again. >I don't know for this one. Mistake by Misty? Possible, but unlikely in this >case I think. Van lying politely? Unlikely. Van not knowing? Possible but >unlikely. (He's a *mage*. They take inventory.) >Perhaps Van just didn't have *as strong* a Bardic gift and that's what he >meant. How about: Van didn't have as much regular, old-fashioned, musical talent as Medren did, as well as having a less powerful Bardic Gift? >From _MPawn_, I got the feeling that Van was good, on the order of being able to get a good seat in a big orchestra in RL, but not great, on the order of being a soloist with a major orchestra in RL. Medren *was* very good, plain musically, on the order of being a regular soloist with a major orchestra. (Stef was truly great, on the order of being an international soloist who could play with any orchestra he felt like gracing...) >On that gift, I've never really been able to come up with a distinction >between Bardic Gift and Empathy, apart from the fact that Bardic Gift only >manifests with music. Doesn't someone say somewhere that the Bardic Gift is projective Empathy associated with music and not much more? -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:34:12 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509131734.NAA09557-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Helen M. Wilfehrt wrote: >>what's the difference between a grove-born and "regular" companion? >>what special powers do grove-born have? IMO, their Gifts tend to be stronger, they have fewer 'rules' restricting the use of their Gifts, and they have a more direct line to the granting deity, if they choose to use it. This doesn't mean that all Companions with strong Gifts are Grove-born, just that a Grove-born is more likely to have a strong Gift. And, of course, the real, true, vital distinction: Grove-borns don't have parents or siblings. About the unbonded Choosing bit: >One particular case scenario would be where the MO is getting quite elderly >and the situation in Valdemar is tense, having the next MO already in >training would be quite useful. Isn't that the situation when Rolan has to go out in search of Talia, though? The former Queen's Own was getting on in years, the situation was really tense, and having Talia already in training would have been *really* useful. Of course, the fact that Talimir was murdered may have shortened the time scale so that the Companion who would have been sent out to pick talia up for training hadn't gotten a chance yet... -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:43:42 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: <199509131743.NAA09567-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Adrienne York wrote: >On Tue, 12 Sep 1995, jenneke wrote: >> Shay'kreth'ashke is 'same-sex lifebonded'. Ashke is 'beloved'. My >> guess is that kreth'ashke is 'lifebonded', but I don't remember it >> ever being used in the books. >jenneke, are you sure about that. It seems to me that shay'kreth'ashke >*is* life-bonded. I think it probably means something like "beloved who >is the other half of one's self." I think this because I'm sure I >remember shay'kreth'ashke referring to a m/f couple. Also, shay'a'chern >was translated by 'Lendel as roughly "one who's lover is like self, with >a sexual connotation on self, to indicate that it's not incest or other, >similar interests." So my feeling on this one, and it's pure feeling, >is that shay is self, and a denotes sexuality. Tell me what you think. I think that 'shay' means self, with a sexual connotation. Part of the reason for this is that the Shin'a'in word for shay'a'chern is she'chorne, not she'echorne. Since the Shin'a'in kept the double vowel in other words (Tale'edras, for example), I think that the essential meaning is in the first syllable, not the second. I would be very interested in seeing a real reference where shay'kreth'ashke is used for a m/f couple. (The rest of the reason is that, linguistically, I don't think people put heavy meanings, like sexuality, in single vowels.) Anyone care to speculate on the translation for 'kestrachern'?:-) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 15:07:44 -0400 (EDT) From: asquires-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu (Allison Squires) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509131907.PAA00394-+AT+-dolphin.upenn.edu> The Winds book was referring to Gwena and that is why Elspeth was so shocked because she didn't remember that part even though she was there. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 17:11:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-plato.simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] On Wed, 13 Sep 1995 SariKr-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > SPOILER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > > > Kerry Wrote: > > >It grates very much on me for a herald's death to be known and >planned > >by the powers that be - intensely so - the whole point of the heralds > >and the mentality behind all the >gods/goddesses/avatars/manifestations of > >the 'Light' is that it is *not* *not* *not* ok to sacrifice one person > >for the good of the many. Note the difference between "I choose to > >sacrifice myself to save thousands" and "We choose to sacrifice >*you* to > >save thousands". Small syntactically, enormous philosophically. > >Yes, it was ironic and tragic. > >No, Tylendel did *not* have to die (apart from the requirements of >dramatic > >narrative) for Vanyel to become whom he did. > > I think I have to disagree here it would be to easy to say it was a > coincidence (sp). There is too many parrellels between the Vanyel/Lendal > relationship and the Vanyel/Stefan relation. With Vanyel changing places and > taking the leadership role in the second. If Lendal is Stef then I would say > that the work he does after Vanyel's death would right the "wrong" that he > did in gaining his revenge. Maybe this is why the Companions rang the death > bell for him and saw to it he was buried with honors, his work was yet > undone. > > Jenneke wrote: > -snip- > >I also don't think that visitting with 'Lendel's > >spirit immediately after 'Lendel's death would have given Van >closure, > >since he was still mostly suicidal. In the half year or so that it > >takes Van to get to the point where he understands the Heraldic > >compulsion, I think 'Lendel/Stef was out of ghostly circulation again > >and unavailable until 'triggered' again by intimate contact. > > When Van met with the Shadowdancer it was at least 10 years after Lendal's > death he was 25 or 28 years old when Jayse was killed. Near the end of the > second book when the bloodmagic spell was released on him. So I would think > that if 'Lendal's spirit was there to say goodbye it would have been as good > a time as any. > > Lill > The above is one entire post, except for my signature, which I cannot figure out how to put at the bottom of my e-mail. The reason the Van/Stef and Lendel/Van relationships are so similar are because they're the same people (more or less). The differences in leadership roles can easily be explained by the fact that there's a lot less psychosis in the former relationship and the relative age/rank has changed. I propose that if Lendel had not died, he would have continued to be the leader in that relationship and would have been the famous one, with Van relegated to a rather Stef-like role in life. I would also like to point out that if the Tayledras (sp) are right that Stef and Lendel were the same person (more or less), then the reason Van did not see Lendel immediately following his death or ten years later with the ShadowLover (sp) is because Lendel was living Stef's life as a street rat in the middle of Haven. This is all, of course, IMHO. TTFN, (see signature above) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 17:17:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Don't know if this has been mentioned in LHM thread Message-ID: ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-plato.simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Elise M Packee wrote: (snip) > In Magic's Promise, Van uses his miniscule healing gift to give the > Bardic-gifted Medren (sp?) the chicken pox (or the valdenmarean > counterpart). WEll, that always struck me as od because in Magic's Pawn > when Andrel and Savil are checking out Van after his gifts are blasted > open, it is clearly stated that all channels with the exception of > HEALING were open to their widest extent (notice no "" marks. I couldn't > remeber the exact quote.) > > Also in this same area it is stated that Bardic channels were > opened too. BUt in Magic's Promise, Van tells his nephew that: he could > never play like Medren, no matter how much he practiced. THe Bardic gift > was never mentioned again. > > Aimless ramblings... > > Elise > > (who, also, does not have a nifty sign-off) > (end snip) Elise is right about Healing, but I don't have a copy of Magic's Pawn. :( I always put it down as bad continuity editing. As for MPromise, Savil said, if I remember correctly, that Bardic was one of the weaker gifts. And I think Medren was fairly strongly gifted. Not as good as Stef, but no slouch either. TTFN, (does anyone have suggestions for moving my handle?) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Michelle To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Shay'kreth'ashke etc. Message-ID: > >I have to agree with Adrienne, I seem to remember somewhere that same > >referance to a m/f couple, of course I can't think of it and don't have > >my books with me. All I know is that I always got the feeling that > >shay'kreth'ashke refered to the bond and not the sex of the people > >involved in it. Can anyone find the reference, just for interests sake? > > I don't have the answer (sorry!) but I do have a related question: What do > you think the connection between shay'a'chern and kestr'a'chern is? If shay > is "self," and basically a'chern or 'chern is "lover", what is kestr (or > kestr'a)? Healer/healing? > > I think I remember shay'kreth'ashke meaning simply "lifebonded", but if I > had my books here at work to check up on all of these things, I'd get > *nothing* done, as opposed to very little :-) > > Joan > Okay, so we've established that shay is "self" and "chern" is lover and I would say that 'a' is probably a linking word and has little or no bearing on the meaning of the phrase. And I would also say that it is safe to assume that "kestr" is healer. If that is true the word kestr'a'chern would make a certain amount of sense. First of all they do heal and secondly there were references to ,um, other "services" being preformed. So that's what I think, anyone else? Chelle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 17:25:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SPOILER ALERT: OK, a new thread... Message-ID: Sunwing brought up the fact that Kethry was told by the Star-Eyed that she was the same as the Windborn Astera, although she puts it in the Duology and I *think* it might have been in the short story where they met, in S&S III? Anyway, for anybody who's read Chronicles of Narnia or had any serious religious discussions, you'll know that doesn't necessarily mean that the people who worship Astera, Vkandis, and the Star_Eyed are necessarily related. All it means is that Good is Good, no matter whose name you do it in, and Bad is Bad, no matter whose name you do it in. But OTH, Misty could be making sure she has plenty of material laying around for a novel or three if she can't think of anything else. TTFN, ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-plato.simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 17:38:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-plato.simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Rosario Holsen-Baker wrote: > On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Elise M Packee wrote: > > > about yfandes being grove-born... > > > > In a recent book (knowing my memory that could be in either Arrow's Fall, > > or in one of the Mage winds books) \ > > > > It is stated clearly that 'fandes was grove-born. Thinking about it In > > fact I think it was in the _Winds of Fury_ in the scene with the ghost > > (purosefully ambiguous for those who have not read it yet) and ELspeth is > > very shocked. Do not quote me on that as the right place because my > > books are in Alaska (and I am in Montana) *Pout, briefly at the > > unfairness of that* > > > > anyway > > > > Elise > No, it said that Yfandes was taking aside Gwena to speak to her, > and cited the reason that (approximate quote): "for all that she is > Grove-born, she forgets that she has no real human experience" > Also, Vanyel states every once in a while (in _Promise_ I think > at one point) that he sometimes sees 'Fandes as a lovely, wise woman > flickering in and out with a white horse. I took that to mean that > 'Fandes had actually been a Herald at some time. Anyone else? > --Jaguar-- > I am almost absolutely positively certain that in the first case, Jaguar is right. In the second, I think he has the best theory, especially since it supports my own position that 'Fandes wasn't grove-born. ;}) (My friend says this devilish smiling face with a little mustache looks stupid. Does it?) TTFN, (the sig is still on top) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 20:57:25 -0400 From: KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fetching generally. Message-ID: <950913205725_98861668-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 95-09-13 02:00:09 EDT, Kerry writes: > > >Kathy wrote: >> It seems to me that when the books refer to fetching, they refer to at >least >> two different types: >> >> Type 1: Fetching involving dematerialization >> Examples: The type Altra does with his own body (between Karse and >> Valdamar), Dirk's fetching of Ylsa's arrows at the end of Arrows of the >> Queen, Dirk fetching Talia at the end of Arrow's fall, ect..... >> >> Type 2: No dematerialization >> Example: Tashir levitating furniture at Vanyel's house in LHM, >Yfandes >> fetching her own body to travel faster with Stefen on her back also in LHM, >> ect..... > >I agree with the types completely. :) >I somehow got the impression though that Yfandes was in fact dematerializing, >which was why Stefen got that 'lurching' impression and Yfandes' stride >broke occasionally. Think run-fetch-run-fetch-run-fetch "whoa, we're here".. >That was the original reason I thought Yfandes' grove-born. When I read that part about Yfandes carrying Stefen and using a fetching gift to go faster, I interpreted it to mean that she was using the gift to almost launch herself through the air and that the disorientation feeling Stefen got was a kind of motion sickness. However, after reading Kerry's comment, I have to concur that Yfandes might have been dematerializing. Thanks for the input :-) Kathy (who's not creative enough for a tag line or a quote :-) ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:55:07 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509131755.NAA09574-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Adrienne York wrote: >On Tue, 12 Sep 1995, jenneke wrote: >> It seems much more likely that Yfandes was >> born the normal way, and would have Chosen him earlier if he'd been >> less spoiled when he first arrived in Haven. >Companions only choose people with Gifts. As Vanyel had only potential >when he came to Haven, Yfandes wouldn't have chosen him if he'd been the >nicest, most considerate, most practical kid on Earth. Um, no. Companions Choose people who can develop Gifts. Talia's Empathy was not functional when she was Chosen, neither was Elspeth's Farsight and Magegift. The Companion-bond-gift is the only one that needs to be active, and no one knows what that is, or how to detect it, except the Companions. It says specifically in _Arrows of the Queen_ that the Chosen have the potential and that contact with the Companions develops that potential to the point where it's useful and trainable. It's strongly implied that there are people in Valdemar who have the same level of potential as those Chosen who never develop their Gifts because they don't have the triggering influence of a Companion. Had Vanyel been significantly less spoiled, he might have been Chosen, and his channels opened more slowly, less painfully, and much less completely. (His channels may also have been blocked somewhat by his adamant desire *not* to be Chosen, the way it happened.) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:40:54 EDT From: MR DAVID W BAHRKE To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: David Bahrke wxav85d-+AT+-prodigy.com Message-ID: <013.01241234.WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com> On the subject of being grove born, since Gwena is grove-born does this mean that Talia and Rolan will be dying together? Or does being grove-born not mean that Elspeth and Gwena will be the next Monarch's Own? Any Ideas? David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:05:44 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <950913220540_18712629-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> Hey all, Here is a question that I don't think has been raised before. I think that this might become an interesting thread... When did Rolan become MOC? The reason I ask is this. Taver was MOC during LHM, when did the transition take place to Rolan? Thoughts, comments, did I miss something? Clear Skies Matt J ****************************************************************************** *********************** All the political movements in ths country, including the gay rights movement, owe a great deal to the black movement. -- Allan Spear. Apple pie, motherhood, and the American flag will not fall. We're already in the military. -- Miriam ben-Shalom. I'm everything you were afraid your little girl would grow up to be--and your little boy. -- Bette Midler. ****************************************************************************** *********************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:05:46 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Wish list Message-ID: <950913220546_18712711-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 95-09-13 01:19:16 EDT, you write: > There's another story idea I'd like to see. I wonder if any >other Skybolts got chosen? > > You know I would also like to see more on Sayvil Vans aunt. I think that I would also like to see more history. More info on the comapnions, and finally a compilation of all her short stories involving Tarma and Kethry. Matt J ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:05:54 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: birthday cake Message-ID: <950913220542_18712654-+AT+-mail06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 95-09-12 07:16:40 EDT, you write: >on Sept.11 Catherine Osborne copied: > ><> Happy Birthday! Will there be a virtual cake? ><> ><> Matt J > >OK, I'm going on vacation, but my birthday is 9-17. Is anybody going to >save an >extra piece of cake that I could eat later? > >-Lee >-Lee W, The home of friendly but smelly dogs. > > > Hey, fend for yourself, its not our fault that you decided to go on vacation. ::jokingly:: Sure why not. Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:05:53 -0400 From: URAMESS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: oops... Message-ID: <950913220552_18712831-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 95-09-13 08:18:25 EDT, you write: >> I have just managed to put my two cents in where they were obviously not >> needed. THe questions have already been answered...gosh I feel sheepish, >> (hey does anyone know how to put the list in digest form?) >> >> I promise now to read all of the messages before I juam my two cents in... >> >> sorry for the wasted bandwidth, >> >> Elise >> > Whooops! Same for me, I can only read my mail about two times a >day at most, and that leaves me behind on a lot. > --Jaguar-- > > I don't want to tell you all not to worry about it, but don't. It happens alot. Matt J ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:45:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Common Deities (was: OK, a new thread...) Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Jennifer S. Broekman wrote: > Why aside from the Kaled'a'in? If you're going to posit that sharing > a deity in the "all gods are one god and all goddesses one goddess" > sense implies common ancestry, then the Kaled'a'in must be related to > the rest, since the StarEyed is their goddess. Also, in the Mage Wars > novels, the only group that's of a single ethnic background is the > Kaled'a'in. The rest are as mixed a group as Valdemar in the 'modern' > novels. While there is probally no common ancestry (at least recent), between the original Kaled'a'in, and the rest of the peoples of the world, other than interracial marriages etc. There is a good possibility of having common god(ess)s, if those deities have a habit of interfering with the real world. The Star-Eyed mentioned that she is also Kethry's Lady Windborn, and also mentioned that she was responsible for the Companions (in part at least): Oathbreakers pg 182: "*And you, My gentle Child--* She continued, carressing the white horse's shining neck, *--are leshya'e Kal'enedral of another sort, hmmm?" and "Do we not all serve to drive back the Dark, each in his own fashion? So I cry -- well met, Children of My Other Self!*" After all, if any of the current gods/goddesses in the world today had a habit of helping directly during times of need. (Hopefully this won't start any religious flame wars...) More people would flock to that particular religion, human nature being what it is. Here is another question though, with a lot of speculation... Didn't Need's original pantheon, include two sets of twins, one set male and one set female? Could it be that Vkandis and Kal'enal (please excuse the spelling errors) are part of that original set? Since most deities don't have a habit of perishing, where/who are the remains of those sets. One of the things that often occurs in the stories is balance, it comes up in Winds, Storms, and Oathb. Could be that those other two are the "Dark" that the Star Eyed mentioned. After all, it all balances, male and female, good and dark, solitary, and non, et cetera. --Gyrfalcon Who is hiding behind the firewall and hoping he didn't set off a holy (flame) war. =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 23:43:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) MOC transition Message-ID: I'd think that every so often, in a war or something, an MOC would just get killed. Or perhaps an MOC would occasionally get really attached to a particular MO and will themself to death with that MO. It wouldn't happen often, but sometimes. TTFN, ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-plato.simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 13:56:58 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509140356.AA23143-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Jenneke wrote: > (Also, he met the ShadowLover. Shadowdancer was an early Herald whose > lifebonded was the similarly cursed Sunsinger.) I'm not saying you're wrong as I haven't read the lyrics recently enough to remember, but were Shadowdancer and Sunsinger actually heralds? I have a vague memory of a reference to newly-won power which would have let them break their curses, but they chose to use it to help someone else. Their names just seem more along the lines of the Tayledras than Valdemaran. Though there were legends in Vanyel's time of the Hawk-brothers, so perhaps the Tayledras once had more contact with Valdemaar and drifted apart (meaning that perhaps they did have Tayledras names, but were Valdemaran). Can anyone refresh my memory? :) Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 00:01:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firecats Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Jennifer S. Broekman wrote: > Adrienne York wrote: > >On Tue, 12 Sep 1995, jenneke wrote: > >> Shay'kreth'ashke is 'same-sex lifebonded'. Ashke is 'beloved'. My > >> guess is that kreth'ashke is 'lifebonded', but I don't remember it > >> ever being used in the books. > > >jenneke, are you sure about that. It seems to me that shay'kreth'ashke > >*is* life-bonded. I think it probably means something like "beloved who > >is the other half of one's self." I think this because I'm sure I > >remember shay'kreth'ashke referring to a m/f couple. Also, shay'a'chern > >was translated by 'Lendel as roughly "one who's lover is like self, with > >a sexual connotation on self, to indicate that it's not incest or other, > >similar interests." So my feeling on this one, and it's pure feeling, > >is that shay is self, and a denotes sexuality. Tell me what you think. > > I think that 'shay' means self, with a sexual connotation. Part of > the reason for this is that the Shin'a'in word for shay'a'chern is > she'chorne, not she'echorne. Since the Shin'a'in kept the double > vowel in other words (Tale'edras, for example), I think that the > essential meaning is in the first syllable, not the second. I would > be very interested in seeing a real reference where shay'kreth'ashke > is used for a m/f couple. (The rest of the reason is that, > linguistically, I don't think people put heavy meanings, like > sexuality, in single vowels.) > > Anyone care to speculate on the translation for 'kestrachern'?:-) > > -jenneke > > I *am* family. How could I not have family values? > Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy > The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey > broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html > > Tale'edras is Shin'a'in for what later became Tayle'dras. The Shin'a'in *added* a syllable there. And blanco and blanc are white in French and Italian respectively. Who's to say who lost/added a syllable? I think "a" is the perfect vehicle for adding sexual connotations, because it's the sort of syllable which can develop from simply stressing a word repeatedly. It's the difference between "I 'like' him as a friend" and "I 'li-ike' him as a boyfriend." And the essential meaning, like self, would still be in the first syllable. The connotation "a", is not essential. That's why it's a connotation. As for kestra'chern, it seems to mean something like therapist. And I would guess, because of the highly sexual nature that therapy often took, that "chern" came to mean lover as a slang shortening of kestra'chern. Watch out Misty, we're about to put out a dictionary, complete with etymology! ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-plato.simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 16:28:43 -0400 From: SariKr-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Bedlams Bard Message-ID: <950913162843_18374157-+AT+-mail06.mail.aol.com> Heyla all, I just got my mail and was excited to see that I had received my copy of Bedlams Bard (The Science Fiction Book Clubs edition of Knights of Ghosts and Shadows and Summoned to Tourney). I was kind of Shocked to put it mildly when I saw the cover did anyone else have this reaction??? Barclay Shaw did the cover art and I know that he has worked on other Misty Covers but this one is how does one say "a bit much"??? A purple, pink and blue house?? Still reeling from the shock, Lill You don't have to see to believe. I still believe. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 14:23:24 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: SPOILERS. Re: Common Deities Message-ID: <9509140423.AA23600-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Gyrfalcon wrote: > The Star-Eyed mentioned that she is also Kethry's Lady Windborn, > and also mentioned that she was responsible for the Companions (in part > at least): > > Oathbreakers pg 182: > > "*And you, My gentle Child--* She continued, carressing the white > horse's shining neck, *--are leshya'e Kal'enedral of another sort, hmmm?" > > and > > "Do we not all serve to drive back the Dark, each in his own > fashion? So I cry -- well met, Children of My Other Self!*" I would have thought the implication was fairly strong that it was not the Star-Eyed who was responsible for the Companions. The bit just after the quoted text about creating sable companions and the companion's response, implies that it was not Kal'enel who created the companions. > Didn't Need's original pantheon, include two sets of twins, one set male and > one set female? Could it be that Vkandis and Kal'enal (please excuse the > spelling errors) are part of that original set? Since most deities don't > have a habit of perishing, where/who are the remains of those sets. One > of the things that often occurs in the stories is balance, it comes up in > Winds, Storms, and Oathb. Could be that those other two are the "Dark" > that the Star Eyed mentioned. After all, it all balances, male and > female, good and dark, solitary, and non, et cetera. I think you're on the right track though with the twins theory. But not light/dark. Thinking about it, I would have put at least 4 distinct gods/goddesses on the side of the Light: The Star-Eyed, Vkandis, the deity protecting Istar & whatever deity is responsible for the companions & Valdemaar. These seem to have distinct modus operandi to my way of thinking with the Star-Eyed (who I agree is Kal'enel) and Vkandis being the most direct. I would have put both sets of twins in Need's pantheon as being of the Light. The Star-Eyed is the betrothed of Vkandis and Valdemar's "Bright Lady" is the betrothed of Istar. Kal'enal's twin responsible for Valdemaar (I can see one twin referring to the other as "My Other Self"). A lot of the early Heralds swear by "Lady Bright" or "Bright Lady" - The Star-Eyed seems more night-related (stars, midnight black hair etc). Secondly I have a vague impression that Istar's deity is male (something Vanyel said about Leareth, even with a group of Adepts not wanting to tangle with a deity). And the guardian on Istar's border (while not the deity) would recognize Kalal (sp? young channel from Karse) as being a priest of his deity's twin. And I can't remember who they were going to send before U... ( the priest from Karse) died but I think it was a herald-mage of Valdemaar whose companion would have been recognizable to the border guardian as being of Istar's deity's consort. It's symmetrical. :) All wild speculation, comments welcome. Cheers, Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com "For the song and the sword and the pipes of pan, Are birthrights sold to a usurer; But I am the last lone highwayman, And I am the last adventurer." > --Gyrfalcon > Who is hiding behind the firewall and hoping he didn't > set off a holy (flame) war. > > =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== > > Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, > it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our > belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. > Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, > Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are > all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery > but whose applications can be seen every day. > If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. > Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, > in each other, and most of all in ourselves. > > Let it roam free or it will die. > > > ============================================================================== > > ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 138 *********************************