MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 141 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: SPOILERS. Re: Common Deities by Adrienne York 2) Re: Translations (was Re: Firecats) by Adrienne York 3) Re: Wish list by Adrienne York 4) Re: Talia in Karse by KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com 5) Re: Just finished Magic's Price. by KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com 6) RE: Lots of things. by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 7) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 8) Re: Wish list by lttorres-+AT+-netcom.netcom.com (Heather S.) 9) HELP!!! by Elise M Packee 10) Re: What if .... by SariKr-+AT+-aol.com 11) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by SariKr-+AT+-aol.com 12) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by Gyrfalcon 13) RE: Lots of things. by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 14) While on the subject of Yfandes, or late night ramblings. by Gyrfalcon 15) Re: FWD: Error Condition Re: Re: LHM (SPOILER) by steph-+AT+-escher.mbi.ucla.edu (Stephanie Wukovitz) 16) Re: Translations (was Re: Firecats) by Gyrfalcon 17) Re: FWD: Error Condition Re: Re: LHM (SPOILER) by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 18) Re: FWD: Error Condition Re: Re: LHM (SPOILER) by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 19) Several Things by WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com (MR DAVID W BAHRKE) 20) Talia, Rolan, and mindspeaking by duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 19:42:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SPOILERS. Re: Common Deities Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Jennifer S. Broekman wrote: > Kal'enel is one of the Star-Eyed's names, indeed, but that doesn't > make her Vkandis's consort, Kalanel. Valdemar's "Bright Lady" seems > to be Astera (who is *not* the same as Lady Windborn) whose consort is > named in _LHM_ as Kernos. > Valdemar doesn't have *a* Lady. "There is no one, true way," remember? Bright Lady is a *very* generic Goddess title for any female goddess. Most Valdemarans are polytheistic, and I get the impression that they worship the Light in both it's male and female aspects. So Astera and Kernos are just one local incarnation of the Goddess and Her Consort. > Ulrich was the one who was to be sent to the Iftel border before he > was killed. No Herald-Mage would've sufficed, according to Altra. If > Karal had been killed, too, Solaris would've come up to take that > post. A Companion would probably be recognized, but the Herald would > have to be recognized, too, in order for them to pass through, and no > Herald would be recognized. The feeling I got was that the border > guardian recognized True Priests of whatever deity, and no Valdemaran > is a True Priest, because the deities haven't acted in Valdemar in > centuries. If there had been a magegifted shaman present, she/he > might easily have been sent instead of Karal, IMO... > > -jenneke I had the very definite impression that it was specifically worshippers of the Sunlord who had free passage. Remember, in a very tight pinch Talia might have done as a substitute, and while she's a very nice person, I wouldn't necessarily call her a True Priestess, more touched by the Sunlord. It would help a lot if we had that story! > PS Would people *please* remove the signatures of those they're > quoting? There's absolutely no need to keep two or three sets of > sig's tagged onto messages... > Sorry about that. Will do better in the future. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-plato.simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 19:47:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Translations (was Re: Firecats) Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Edward B. Adams wrote: > On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Gyrfalcon wrote: > > > > > > > > Anyone care to speculate on the translation for 'kestrachern'?:-) > > > > How about: > > One who is a healer of the heart. > > > > It seems to me that the 'chern' sylable has a non-physical "heart" > > meaning, With leanings on emotions, etc. > > > > --Gyrfalcon > > YES! I like this interpretation, because it advoids the term "lover" in > the title Kestrachern. Remember how upset Amberdrake got when the > apprentace healers assumed that they were army-sanctioned prostitutes. As > he made quite clear on many occasions, sex was only a part of what they > did: a very important part in certain circumstances, but by now means > the entirety, or even the majority of the profession > Thank You, Ned and Thank You Gyrfalcon. I seriously think that the use of chern to denote lover came about as a slang cannibalization. And besides, there *were* prostitutes in the camp, ?perchi? or something. That explanation I think makes the most sense. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-plato.simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 19:58:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wish list Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Angela M. wrote: > I found it very interesting that Kerowyn's Companion is named Savil. > *Reeeaal* close to Sayvil. Has there been a discussion on the > relationship between Companions and past Heralds? It seems to me that it > makes some sense that Companions souls are essentially the reincarnated > souls of Heralds. I could be full of s**t, but it's a thought that I've > been mulling over for quite awhile. > > Any other thoughts on this.... > I have one! I have one! Didn't Ulrich say something about Firecats being reincarnated Sons of the Sun, and Karsites thinking Firecats and Companions to be *very* similar. Suspicious, isn't it? ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-plato.simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 20:46:15 -0400 From: KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia in Karse Message-ID: <950914204614_99780019-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 95-09-14 01:02:01 EDT, you write: >On Tue, 12 Sep 1995, Helen M. Wilfehrt wrote: > >> Talia going to Karse happened in the Winds books. This was one of the >> messages passed on via Gwena's contacting Rolan, mentioned in the 2nd Winds >> book. In the last Winds book, Kero gives a sketch of how Karse first made >> contact with Alberich, who initiated the dealings with Karse. Talia ended >> up going to Karse as Selenay's representative to make the Treaty with them. >> She ended up being made a Sun Priestess of Karse - why is described in >Storm >> Warning. Some more details are described in Storm Warning - more from the >> Karsite perspective- but they aren't all that much of a Spoiler. >> >> It does sound like good material for its own story but as far as a know it >> hasn't been told in anything other than as second hand stories told by >other >> characters in ML's books. Maybe it will come out in some anthologies like >> those tales of how Tarma and Kethry met. > >I remember it being mentioned in the Winds books, but even then it was >another one of those situations where I felt like I'd missed something... I felt the same way. The way it read in the Winds books was as if it was a story the readers were assumed to be familiar with. I guess ML likes to keep some plot lines sort of mythical without fleshing them out. Kathy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 20:46:45 -0400 From: KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Just finished Magic's Price. Message-ID: <950914204644_99780474-+AT+-mail06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 95-09-14 08:54:06 EDT, you write: >On Sun, 10 Sep 1995 23:11:57 +0100, "Jennifer S. Broekman" > said: > >> Well, then we'll have to agree to disagree, because I cannot believe >> that Talia would 'improve' a story she didn't know the ending to, >> while she was reading it for the first time. You (well, I, at least) >> don't have to invent a new character in order to escape into a book. >> I'm perfectly capable of identifying with a character I didn't invent, >> *even* a male, and I don't think Talia's non-Gift empathy was so >> lacking that she couldn't do the same. In short, I don't think >> there's a shred of evidence or motivation for thinking that Talia >> invented the character of the female Herald and plenty of reason to >> think that the in-world novelist who wrote the story did, and no >> amount of saying that adding characters to a story one doesn't know at >> all 'improves' it is going to change my mind. > > >Just to quarrel: ;) > >"Herald Vanyel was alone, surrounded by the Servants of Darkness, and >no one knew his peril but _his Companion_and_Bard_Stefen_." That >proves it as far as I am concerned. _If_ there had been another >Herald in that book, the one who Talia saw herself as, wouldn't she >too have been mentioned? > > I always interpreted the presense of the female character in that story as a certain amount of "literary license" by the author. In this case, the story would have been considered historical fiction rather than fact. Considering what a legend Vanyel was, I'm sure lot's of stories were written about him that were not neccessarily fact. Kathy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 10:46:36 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lots of things. Message-ID: <9509150046.AA06448-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> On Savil Grooming Van: Jenneke wrote: > Also, it would be > highly out of character for any Herald to specifically groom anyone to > become a Herald except, under extraordinary circumstances, the Heir. Do you really think that'd stop Savil if she thought there was a chance of coaxing Van into becoming a Herald-mage (especially at a time where they needed all the herald-mages they could get).. I agree with what you wrote earlier - Savil simply must have believed that there was no chance of awakening Van's gifts (whether by Companion-bond or some other method). On Windrider Unchained: Thanks Starwolf and co for refreshing my memory, but my original question still stands. Apparently they became heralds, but I was speculating on the reason for the Tayledras style names - (Windrider, Sunsinger, Shadowdancer). I was wondering whether S & S were Tayledras before being chosen, or whether the names were from a common heritage. I doubt the latter because these type of names seem to be unique to the Tayledras - not even their close cousins the Shin'a'nain use that naming style. On MOC: Jenneke asked: > Why do people assume that there is more than one MOC? > Differing names are not a reason, since the MOC gives his name to his > Herald, always, and I dare anyone to state (with a straight face) that > a high-order Guardian Spirit is incapable of picking himself a new > name and remembering to answer to it. Good question! They/He could easily be reborn as a foal and take a new name. And they/he'd have all that previous experience to draw on. I wonder whether the Heralds are present at the grove when the new grove-born appears (since they are aware that the MOC is always grove-born). Remember though, there were *3* original grove-born companions.. Interesting how the Herald's believe that there's only one grove-born that continued on to future generations.. I wonder if it's possible that the Monarch's Companion and one other (a companion specially suited to mages?) are also grove-born.. Not necessarily the same individual all the time, but grove-born nonetheless? On Deity's: I bow before Jenneke's larger body of knowledge. :) (And marvel at her ability to remember that many names). :) Asking then, is it possible that Astera aka "Lady Bright" is Valdemaar's deity and Kernos is Iftel's? (see, I got the right name that time) :) While I can't remember it enough to say, is it possible that the "Wind Lords" (Iftel) reference are to different faces of the same god (eg Kernos)? On Van being a descendant of Ma'ar: Elizabeth wrote: > Concerning Van as a descendant of Ma'ar--rememeber that Van does use his > Firestarting: in Magic's Price Van uses his Firestarting to light the > candles whenever he enters a darkened room. More specifically, I think I > remember him doing this in an inn while he and Stefen are trying to track > down Leareth--but I could be recalling that incorrectly. Yeup, that was my point - if Van was a descendant of Ma'ar, Ma'ar couldn't have possessed him, because it's likely that Van never used the fire-starting *spell* (which was the trigger Ma'ar used), but rather used his mind-magic fire-starting gift. Of course, I think Ma'ar would have got a nasty shock if he tried to possess a fully bonded herald when the companion jumped in to lend a hand. On Yfandes being grove-born: I nearly changed my mind to think she was human, :) after all the discussion here about it, then I re-read Magic's Pawn where she first turns up. Listen to what she says and how she says it - it doesn't come across as the way an adult human of the same culture would speak. She sounds awesome (in its proper english sense of inspiring awe and reverence) - breathtakingly beautiful and powerful. Alien in the same sense an Angelic being would be alien. She tones it down later on and sounds more human (after all, she's had 10 years to learn from the other companions), but I'd say she reverted in the emotions of the moment. Whoever she is, she was an extraordinary individual. Miscellaneous bits on Van & Tylendel: Van was a channel before Tylendel took his revenge. He had what I think were foresight dreams. He saw Gala's (Tylendel's companion) true spirit form.. When Tylendel had the fit when his twin was murdered, Van saw energy fields, and Tylendel's energy field/shield included Van - I wonder whether that was Van's subconcious manipulations, or Tylendel. I think that Van's gifts were being roused slowly by continued proximity to companions and more particularly by his life-bond with a practicing mage. I think Van would have been chosen by Yfandes eventually anyway - he was heading in the right direction and that Tylendel's death just precipated events. (ie, I agree with Aphrael, Catherine, Cecilia and co). A few questions re Magic's Pawn: - Whose fetching moved the branches while Van was in the water drowning so that he could grab them - Van's or Yfandes'? - Just around the time Gala repudiates Tylendel, Van is struggling with the gate and gets a tiny influx of energy.. where did this come from? I got the impression that he was actually dying here and that energy flux came from Tylendel. Either that, or Van actually drew energy from the surroundings. - When Tylendel has the fetching/mage fit when his twin dies, Gala is surrounded by a blue glow that wards the flying debri and the lightning. Is this her own [presumably weaker] mage gift manifesting or fetching? Is it Van extending Tylendel's glow to include him, or is Tylendel doing it unconsciously? Anyway, that's my consolidated posting. :) Comments? Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com "For the song and the sword and the pipes of pan, Are birthrights sold to a usurer; But I am the last lone highwayman, And I am the last adventurer." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 11:28:25 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509150128.AA07509-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Mat T wrote: > > Hmm. I could be wrong, but it seems that they might not have been > > Heralds, given that a Companion is never mentioned in the song or > > elsewhere, wheras Windrider's Darshay is given a very prominent place. > > Shouldn't Sun and Shadow's hypothetical Companions have been helping in > > some way (or at least around?) > > Hmm, I always thought that Darshay was the Heir and Windrider was the > Companion. I mean, Windrider sounds like a Tayledras name, not one > for the Valdemaran Heir. It could be a name given to a Companion by > his/her non-Mindspeaking Herald (like Sherril's Silkswift). > > I'm probably wrong, and I know that there are lots of things that could > refute my idea (like why name the Windrider Cycle after a Companion?), > but that's the impression I got. Mmm, it seems unlikely that they'd mix the names of the Heir and the companion. Y'know, if Windrider was a Tayledras, the wing-clipped reference would make a lot more sense, especially if his bond-bird had been hurt. And there has to be some source for the Hawk-brother references that the Valdemaran people remember in Van's day. Or perhaps the song was originally a Tayledras one, at a time when the Tayledras had closer associations with Valdemaar. It would explain why the names are Tayledras, where the Hawk-brother legends come from and why the Heir in the song has a name like Windrider (ie it wasn't his normal name, but his Tayledras use-name). The song may have migrated, or been 'translated' by someone into Valdemaran. Just random thoughts. Kerry. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 18:51:00 -0800 From: lttorres-+AT+-netcom.netcom.com (Heather S.) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wish list Message-ID: <199509150143.SAA19112-+AT+-netcomsv.netcom.com> I wish we could see a story that FOCUSES on a female shay'a'chern (sp?) couple..... Heather \\\|/// -(o o)- +------------------------oOOOo--( )--oOOOo----------------------------+ "Heaven is a city much like San Francisco."-- The Angel:AIA +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 19:58:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Elise M Packee To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: HELP!!! Message-ID: Could someone PLEASE...tell me how to digest this list. I used to know, but my computer knowledge sorta went bu-bye with my sewing knowledge and vocab (long story short. Dog ran out in road, swerved to avoid dog, road collasped beneath car, rolled down about 50-60 feet. WEARING SEAT BELT!!!!!!!!!!!<-------saved life!!!! got major concussion, memory loss, other stuff. PLEASE WEAR YOUR SEAT BELT WHILE DRIVING!!!!!!!!) elise ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 22:17:02 -0400 From: SariKr-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: What if .... Message-ID: <950914221700_19696095-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> Mel Asks, >What would Van have been like, if Tylendel hadn't suicided? >I think Van would have wound up as one of the Blues, basically. (Of the sort who >were tormenting Talia, rather than the more useful ones who actually studied.) >I suspect that Tylendel might have become quite annoyed with him; >Tylendel >being a Herald, and Van being rather useless -- but they wouldn't >have been >able to split up because of the lifebond. Hmm. Any other thoughts? I think Van would probably had eneded up as one of the blues also, though not a part of the "evil" crowd. He loved 'Lendal selfessly and would probably had followed him to the end of the earth to keep that love. Van had never been given that unconditional love by anyone but his sister so I think that in time he would have learned to be a kinder and more open person. (yes, still destroying plot of LHM) Lill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 22:22:08 -0400 From: SariKr-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <950914222158_19701384-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> Jenneke wrote" You miss the point. By ten years after 'Lendel's death, his spirit was already quite firmly attached to Stefen's body. Visitting with Van would have required leaving Stef's body untenanted and at a distance for an extended period of time, which is *not* generally considered to be a good idea. The only time when 'Lendel/Stef could have visitted Vanyel without leaving Stef's body unensouled was directly after 'Lendel's suicide, before Stef was born/ensouled, when neither Van nor 'Lendel was really in the proper state of mind> Nope didn't miss the point just couldn't spit out what I was trying to say . I was trying to point out that by Lendal not being there to say goodby points towards him "being" Stef. Guess I didn't do a good job huh?? :) Lill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:31:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Catherine Osborne wrote: > On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Kerry Mealing wrote: [snip] > > Their names just seem more along the lines of the Tayledras than Valdemaran. > > Though there were legends in Vanyel's time of the Hawk-brothers, so perhaps > > the Tayledras once had more contact with Valdemaar and drifted apart > > (meaning that perhaps they did have Tayledras names, but were Valdemaran). > Hmm. I could be wrong, but it seems that they might not have been > Heralds, given that a Companion is never mentioned in the song or > elsewhere, wheras Windrider's Darshay is given a very prominent place. > Shouldn't Sun and Shadow's hypothetical Companions have been helping in > some way (or at least around?) IIRC Sunsinger and Shadowdancer became Heralds After the were finished with their shared curse. But as for their names, It seems likely that they could have been Tayledras at the time, and were chosen because the people needed them more than the land. There is a (future) precedent for this. i.e. Alberich. Companions can, do and will go OutKingdom to find their Chosen, so if a Karsite, why not a set of Hawkbrothers? I could easily see Darkwind being chosen, if it were possible. But since his tie to the land is stronger than anything else (except maybe his love for Elspeth and Vree's bond), it just didn't happen. --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:47:54 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lots of things. Message-ID: <199509150347.XAA10614-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Kerry Mealing wrote: >On Savil Grooming Van: >Jenneke wrote: >> Also, it would be >> highly out of character for any Herald to specifically groom anyone to >> become a Herald except, under extraordinary circumstances, the Heir. >Do you really think that'd stop Savil if she thought there was a chance >of coaxing Van into becoming a Herald-mage (especially at a time where >they needed all the herald-mages they could get).. Yes. a) The need for Herald-Mages wasn't all that crucial when Savil first looked at Treesa and Withen's children (around the time Van was 10 or 11), since the war with Karse was only heating up. b) Van's primary Gift before the blasting open seems to have been ForeSight, not MageGift. His MageGift may have been blasted farther open because it was mage energy doing the blasting or whatever, but it didn't manifest at all (in ways we haven't seen as belonging to a channel) prior to the trauma. c) 'Grooming' Van would've meant forcing someone (Van) to follow a lifepath chosen by someone else, without compelling reason (like the fact that untrained mages are damned dangerous), which is seriously counter to everything Heralds are supposed to stand for. I don't think Savil would've, even if the first two points hadn't been true. >On MOC: >Jenneke asked: >> Why do people assume that there is more than one MOC? >> Differing names are not a reason, since the MOC gives his name to his >> Herald, always, and I dare anyone to state (with a straight face) that >> a high-order Guardian Spirit is incapable of picking himself a new >> name and remembering to answer to it. >Good question! They/He could easily be reborn as a foal and take a new name. >And they/he'd have all that previous experience to draw on. MOCs aren't born as foals. They appear full-grown and ride out immediately in search of the new MO, or Choose the current MO if he/she's still around. >I wonder whether the Heralds are present at the grove when the new grove-born >appears (since they are aware that the MOC is always grove-born). Probably, given that losing a MOC is a pretty major happening... >Remember though, there were *3* original grove-born companions.. Interesting >how the Herald's believe that there's only one grove-born that continued on >to future generations.. I tend to think that not all grove-born Companions are into the ever-repeating cycle thing. The non-MOCs could have been regular worthy spirits who had to be grove-born in the beginning because there was no other way to produce them. (There were more than 3, btw, though only 3 showed up the first night.) >On Deity's: >I bow before Jenneke's larger body of knowledge. :) (And marvel at her >ability to remember that many names). :) *blush* >Asking then, is it possible that Astera aka "Lady Bright" is Valdemaar's >deity and Kernos is Iftel's? (see, I got the right name that time) :) >While I can't remember it enough to say, is it possible that the >"Wind Lords" (Iftel) reference are to different faces of the same god >(eg Kernos)? Kernos and Astera are both deities worshipped in the northern part of Valdemar. I would tend to think that they're different from the Wind Lords, simply because the Wind Lords are never given personal names, while they're almost always called by their personal names, even in swearing (Kernos' balls, etc...). More on deities: Starwolf wrote: > She's thinking about the deities of her family, possibly her region? >She notes that her father prefers the fairer aspect of the deity >(Agnira?) while Kero prefers the warrior aspect (Adara?) Anyway, the >above list of the sets of twins makes me wonder. Anyone have By the >Sword handy? Check out that part. Who are the deities mentioned? I >think we'll find that Kero's deities are the OTHER two aspects of the >deity! Unlikely, since Kero's goddesses are *3* in number: Agnetha (the 'womanly' one), Agnira (the horse-tamer), and Agnoma (the Crone). The statue in their shrine is of Agnetha, holding a lamb and surrounded by fruitful vines (or some such), with the other two represented only by their symbols stamped into the base: a horseshoe for Agnira and a snowflake for Agnoma. >On Yfandes being grove-born: >I nearly changed my mind to think she was human, :) after all the >discussion here about it, then I re-read Magic's Pawn where she first >turns up. Listen to what she says and how she says it - it doesn't come >across as the way an adult human of the same culture would speak. She >sounds awesome (in its proper english sense of inspiring awe and >reverence) - breathtakingly beautiful and powerful. Alien in the same sense >an Angelic being would be alien. >She tones it down later on and sounds more human (after all, she's had 10 >years to learn from the other companions), but I'd say she reverted in the >emotions of the moment. > Whoever she is, she was an extraordinary individual. Some of us go into literary mode under stress without even ever having been English majors, much less Major Guardian Spirits.:-) I think she was trying to sound somewhat impressive and literary to get through Van's skull. She may have even been trying to sound deific to grab Van back from willing himself to death. I'll agree on her being an incredible individual, though. One wonders where her spirit was when Gwena was incarnated, Elspeth could've used Yfandes' good sense.:-) >A few questions re Magic's Pawn: >- Whose fetching moved the branches while Van was in the water drowning > so that he could grab them - Van's or Yfandes'? IMO, Van's. His channels had just been blasted open, so they were functional, and his animal survival instinct got the better of his desire to die by trying to Fetch the bushes in the same way that his arms pushed his head out of the water so he could breathe. >- When Tylendel has the fetching/mage fit when his twin dies, Gala is > surrounded by a blue glow that wards the flying debri and the lightning. > Is this her own [presumably weaker] mage gift manifesting or fetching? > Is it Van extending Tylendel's glow to include him, or is Tylendel > doing it unconsciously? I think it's the generic Companion ability to use node energy when in need, more than anything else. With a strong Gift for magery or Fetching, I think Gala would've been able to stay closer to Tylendel. I also think that Tylendel unconsciously protected Van, because of the link between them, which wasn't strained by keeping secrets the way 'Lendel's link with Gala was. (Gala didn't know that the twin bond wasn't weakened by the physical distance between 'Lendel and his twin.) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:41:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: While on the subject of Yfandes, or late night ramblings. Message-ID: Could it be that some companions have the ability to Use the gifts of their Chosen at a magnified rate. One of Van's gifts was fetching, and we know that 'Fandes was able to jump, Gwena can act as a "power source" for Elspeth. Rolan can? (maybe often has) act as a stable emotion zone, all of them can mindspeak, or so we think. Could it be that mindspeaking Heralds are the ones who have mindspeaking Companions, we don't have any proof otherwise. With exception of Rolan, there is no proof that Companions of non-mindspeakers can communicate this way. After all, it's not like they speak their mind often. So the question is, Can the normal companions (non Grove born) only use their Chosen's particular gifts? Or not? Just seeing if this is a way to clear up whether Yfandes is Grove born, --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 20:39:27 -0700 From: steph-+AT+-escher.mbi.ucla.edu (Stephanie Wukovitz) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: FWD: Error Condition Re: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509150339.AA12404-+AT+-escher.mbi.ucla.edu> Hey, I don't remember who was talking about Sunsinger and Shadowdancer being possibly Taleydras, but I offer the following from Arrow's Flight to suggest that they're not Hawkbrothers: "'Sun and Shadow' told of the meeting of two of the earliest Heralds, Rothas Sunsinger and Lythe Shadowdancer long before they were ever Chosen..." So those are probably their *last names* and therefore the two probably weren't Talayedras. Oh yeah reference is from page 58. Have fun! :) -Stephanie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:46:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Translations (was Re: Firecats) Message-ID: > Thank You, Ned and Thank You Gyrfalcon. I seriously think that the use > of chern to denote lover came about as a slang cannibalization. And > besides, there *were* prostitutes in the camp, ?perchi? or something. > That explanation I think makes the most sense. You're welcome. and yes, Perchi did serve that particular function in camp. And as is likely that the Chern/Cheorn (sp) sylable has probally changed in the three thousand years since the Mage Wars. --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 15:07:44 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: FWD: Error Condition Re: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509150507.AA09422-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Heya Stephanie! > Hey, I don't remember who was talking about Sunsinger and Shadowdancer > being possibly Taleydras, but I offer the following from Arrow's Flight > to suggest that they're not Hawkbrothers: > > "'Sun and Shadow' told of the meeting of two of the earliest Heralds, > Rothas Sunsinger and Lythe Shadowdancer long before they were ever > Chosen..." > > So those are probably their *last names* and therefore the two > probably weren't Talayedras. Oh yeah reference is from page 58. Was me.. but I still think that they're not Valdemaran surnames (consider Orthallen, Ashkevron etc guess who can't remember any more surnames). Think of them more as use-names (the ones that the Tayledras take to describe themselves, not the ones they're born with). So Rothas would have been Sunsinger's birthname etc.. :) Cheers! Kerry. > Have fun! :) > > -Stephanie > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 15:09:38 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: FWD: Error Condition Re: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509150509.AA09560-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Sorry, just realised I sent that last to the list again - I meant to send it just to Stephanie. Kerry. > Hey, I don't remember who was talking about Sunsinger and Shadowdancer > being possibly Taleydras, but I offer the following from Arrow's Flight > to suggest that they're not Hawkbrothers: > > "'Sun and Shadow' told of the meeting of two of the earliest Heralds, > Rothas Sunsinger and Lythe Shadowdancer long before they were ever > Chosen..." > > So those are probably their *last names* and therefore the two > probably weren't Talayedras. Oh yeah reference is from page 58. > > Have fun! :) > > -Stephanie > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 01:20:16 EDT From: WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com (MR DAVID W BAHRKE) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Several Things Message-ID: <013.01334158.WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com> First of all, where does it say that MOC has to be a stallion? I have read most of the books and I don't seem to remember mention that the MOC has to male. I personally find this idea to be repugnant. When you think about how open-minded Misty's books are I find it hard to believe that she would insert a bit of sexism like this in one of her books. The comment about Vkandis not being active in Valdamar, what about the sun-priest enclaves left in Valdamar? David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 02:01:12 -0400 From: duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Talia, Rolan, and mindspeaking Message-ID: <199509150601.CAA27518-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> I was just wondering what anyone else thought of why Rolan can't speak to Talia, if Companions _can_ speak to anyone they want to, even if the person is not gifted with mindspeech. After all, there have been cases where Companion have spoken to people who don't have the gift (or at least we weren't told they had the gift :). Even if it is against the _rules_, there are situations (I think) where Rolan mindspeaking Talia would be completely justified. Comments? Stacy Hunt DuVall...beware the Chemistry Avenger duvall.23-+AT+-osu.edu "Oh what a goofy work is man!"-The Tick's mind, waxing philosophic ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 141 *********************************