MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 144 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Alright I surrender by MR DAVID W BAHRKE 2) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by "Angela M." 3) Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... by Ina Faye-Lund 4) RE: LHM(SPOILER) by Ina Faye-Lund 5) Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... by Ina Faye-Lund 6) RE: Lots of things. by Ina Faye-Lund 7) Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... by Ina Faye-Lund 8) Re: While on the subject of Yfandes, or late night ramblings. by Ina Faye-Lund 9) Re: Talia, Rolan, and mindspeaking by Ina Faye-Lund 10) Re: Several Things by Ina Faye-Lund 11) Re: Talia, Rolan, and mindspeaking by Ina Faye-Lund 12) Re: About Talia by Ina Faye-Lund 13) Choosing the Monarch's Own Herald by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 14) Re: Talia, Rolan, and mindspeaking by Ina Faye-Lund 15) Re: LHM(SPOILER) by Jennifer 16) Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... by Jennifer 17) Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... by "Edward B. Adams" 18) Re: About Talia by Mat Timmerman 19) Re:Yfandes by duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) 20) Re: Alright I surrender by Adrienne York 21) Re: Alright I surrender by Gyrfalcon 22) Re: Alright I surrender by Wendy Howell 23) RE: LHM(SPOILER) by Adrienne York 24) RE: Lots of things. by Adrienne York 25) Re: Lots of things. by diamond-+AT+-wizvax.net (Jill Wilber) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 20:00:46 EDT From: MR DAVID W BAHRKE To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Alright I surrender Message-ID: <013.01410764.WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com> Ok, I guess I will have to capitulate and admit that MOC has to be a stallion, but I still don't like it. In response to an earlier statement I think that Elspeth could make a very good MO. I think that she has matured a lot over the years. David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 22:59:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Angela M." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, Sunfalcon wrote: > Also, does anyone else find it strange that the Heralds (who know > that Companions can Mindspeak with even the non-Gifted) haven't made more > of an issue of that than they have? I don't think I'd be too comfortable > if I knew that my Companion was holding out on me in that fashion. Then > again, who would he/she tell? I don't think that most Heralds really realize that thier Companions can mindspeak to others. Most examples of communication from Herald to Herald goes through one Companion to the other Herald's Companion. NOT from Companion to another Herald which would be the easier means of communicating in an emergency. While most Companions have the ability to mindspeak to others, I think the very vast majority do not excercise that ability, leading the Heralds to be unaware. Also, I don't think that most Heralds are quite as obstinate and contrary as Elspeth can be. Not too many of the other Heralds have been put into a situations where their Companions have been 'forced' into guiding them into choices and situations, either... *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Angela M. Murray |"Darkness has a hunger that's Nazareth College of Rochester, NY |insatiable, and lightness has a call Art Education * (ammurray-+AT+-orion.naz.edu)|that's hard to hear..." -I. Girls *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ___ ___ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:22:24 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... Message-ID: <199509171322.22873.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:21:05 +0100, "Cecile S. Ueltschey" said: > Why couldn't Yfandes have been grove-born 10 years or more prior > to Vanyel's arrival?? That argument and the "she bore two foals" > argument don't hold water IMHO. We don't KNOW that much about the > grove-born Companions to say whether or not they could bear offspring. I expect that grove-born Companions can bear foals, yes. :=) > Doesn't Talia tease Skif when Cymry and Rolan go off to themselves > at the Waystation when he meets her and Kris? About the increased > fertility of a grove-born stallion?? So, why couldn't ANY > grove-born mare (Yfandes included) bear foals? Perhaps Yfandes was > "called" too early, or couldn't get to Van to choose him for some > reason? Now, Van was only 16 when he was Chosen. If she came to Choose him when she was born, or "born", he would only be 6 years old, and that would be too early to say anything about what he was going to be. But, what if Yfandes, or some other Companion, _knew_ that in about 10 years, there would come one who needed an _adult_ Companion, a grown Companion who would not make a mistake? > There's no reference to her NOT having Chosen before (just > that she hasn't Chosen IN ten years), as well, maybe there WERE > other Companions that Chose again after the loss of their Herald - > at least back then, and probably still would be rare. I think that if Yfandes had Chosen before, we would know. But I agree that she might have been Grove-Born. -- IFL Elen sla lmenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:23:38 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509171323.22892.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Thu, 14 Sep 1995 18:49:16 +0100, Eugene said: > True, but does Savil not state that she is dissapointed that none of > Treesa and Withen's children share her gifts. Vanyel remembers her > saying this after she tests him for Gifts and he comes up with > "potential only". Surely Savil would have said something at this > point like "well if he gets chosen he'll develop gifts", or something > similiar, if this were possible. Did Savil know what criterias the Companions Chose after? I mean, Vanyel might have had active Gifts, but that wouldn't mean he got Chosen? -- IFL Elen sla lmenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:31:23 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... Message-ID: <199509171331.23087.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Fri, 15 Sep 1995 01:33:29 +0100, "Helen M. Wilfehrt" said: > Ten years anticipating the arrival of a certain individual is a bit > much to expect. Why? Ghost was a Mind-Healer, and he was needed. The Companions tended to have the Gifts that their Chosen would need. Just like the Heralds often are born with powers that will be needed in close future, why shouldn't the Companions be likewise? > Nor could the Companions prevent Kris's death nor Tylendel's taking > revenge. Too many events had to come together in order for Vanyel's > Gifts to be awakened and for him to become Heraldic material for the > Companions to really anticipate him coming. Nor could they prevent Vanyel's death. I am not so sure. What I mean is, they might be a part of a greater picture. The Companions know what is given them to know, and the deity or deities that protects Valdemar knows more. Why shouldn't they let Vanyel die where he did? First, there were people suffering other places too, and the gods did not do anything about it. Don't see why the Heralds should be different? Second; Vanyel's death was needed. The border had to be guarded, and that could only happen through his death. Third; A greater good came from it. Remember Moondance's words? Fourth; That the deities would not do this to the people, how can you know? The way Death is pictured, I cannot see why dying should be so bad? It will give the Heralds a chance to rest, or perhaps get a life where they don't have to give all they have for Valdemar. -- IFL Elen sla lmenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:38:09 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lots of things. Message-ID: <199509171338.23245.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Fri, 15 Sep 1995 03:01:36 +0100, Kerry Mealing said: > I wonder if it's possible that the Monarch's Companion and one other > (a companion specially suited to mages?) are also grove-born.. Not > necessarily the same individual all the time, but grove-born > nonetheless? Well, Roland is Grove-Born, and so is Gwena. In the beginning, all the Companions were Grove-Born. > I think that Van's gifts were being roused slowly by continued > proximity to companions and more particularly by his life-bond with > a practicing mage. I think Van would have been chosen by Yfandes > eventually anyway - he was heading in the right direction and that > Tylendel's death just precipated events. (ie, I agree with Aphrael, > Catherine, Cecilia and co). Now, _that_ is a theory I could agree with. -- IFL Elen sla lmenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:43:18 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... Message-ID: <199509171343.23357.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Fri, 15 Sep 1995 01:13:17 +0100, "Edward B. Adams" said: > Yes, it is possible, but I got the distinct impression that Grove-born > Companions are there for a reason. In Arrow's Flight, the arrival of a > Grove-born was a fairly major undertaking. I would guess that the diety > that controls when Grove-born show up would plan things a bit better than > to go through all the trouble to bring out a Grove-born, then just have > her sit around for the next 10 years Unless there was a _reason_ for her to arrive early... > My argument for two foals == not grove born was to show that she couldn't > have been called the night of 'Lendel's suicide and then played around > with everyone's memories to think that she had been around all along. > The arguement that Grove-born are MORE fertile than average actually > argues AGAINST Yfandes being Grove-born: she didn't have any foals in > the 20-25 years that she and Van were together, and there is plenty of > evidence that she was NOT shy about approaching Companion stallions > (Magic's Promise at the Halfway Inn when she sidles up to the coriour > with the perfectly lovely, errr..., nose) Again, she might have arrived early for some reason. And another thing...Why should she _have_ to get in-foal? Maybe she could choose that herself? Another thing... Someone had started killing off mages and potential Herald-Mages. What if Yfandes was intended as someone else's Companion, who got killed before she could Choose him? And then Vanyel comes along, and....well.... -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:44:22 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: While on the subject of Yfandes, or late night ramblings. Message-ID: <199509171344.23369.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Fri, 15 Sep 1995 05:03:35 +0100, Gyrfalcon said: > Could it be that some companions have the ability to Use the gifts of > their Chosen at a magnified rate. One of Van's gifts was fetching, and > we know that 'Fandes was able to jump, Gwena can act as a "power source" > for Elspeth. Rolan can? (maybe often has) act as a stable emotion zone, > all of them can mindspeak, or so we think. Could it be that mindspeaking > Heralds are the ones who have mindspeaking Companions, we don't have any > proof otherwise. With exception of Rolan, there is no proof that > Companions of non-mindspeakers can communicate this way. After all, it's > not like they speak their mind often. So the question is, Can the normal > companions (non Grove born) only use their Chosen's particular gifts? Or > not? > Just seeing if this is a way to clear up whether Yfandes is Grove born, Rolan and Yfandes did. But remember, the Companions have Gifts as well. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:48:09 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia, Rolan, and mindspeaking Message-ID: <199509171348.23492.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Fri, 15 Sep 1995 07:31:25 +0100, Stacy Hunt DuVall said: > I was just wondering what anyone else thought of why Rolan can't > speak to Talia, if Companions _can_ speak to anyone they want to, > even if the person is not gifted with mindspeech. After all, there > have been cases where Companion have spoken to people who don't have > the gift (or at least we weren't told they had the gift :). Even if > it is against the _rules_, there are situations (I think) where > Rolan mindspeaking Talia would be completely justified. Seems to me that the Companions have rules on their own. Remember, when Vanyel makes that spell, the web? The Companions withdraws, and Vanyel thinks that they have always been somewhat outside the ordinary life. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:46:40 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Several Things Message-ID: <199509171346.23420.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Fri, 15 Sep 1995 06:51:23 +0100, MR DAVID W BAHRKE said: > First of all, where does it say that MOC has to be a stallion? I > have read most of the books and I don't seem to remember mention that > the MOC has to male. I personally find this idea to be repugnant. > When you think about how open-minded Misty's books are I find it hard > to believe that she would insert a bit of sexism like this in one of > her books. It is said in the first of the _Arrows_. Talia is told that the MOC is _always_ a stallion....and he always seeks out his Chosen on the road. Why is it sexism? Because you choose to say that I want that to be a stallion, why shouldn't that be perfectly ok? Besides, a pregnant MOC... :=) -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:49:54 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia, Rolan, and mindspeaking Message-ID: <199509171349.23540.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Fri, 15 Sep 1995 14:52:53 +0100, "Edward B. Adams" said: > Are there any other full heralds who can't mindspeak to their > Companions? I can't think of any right now, but that doesn't mean > much Lores, for instance. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:54:11 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: About Talia Message-ID: <199509171354.23608.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Fri, 15 Sep 1995 21:44:08 +0100, MR DAVID W BAHRKE said: > Here are my $0.02 about Talia mindspeaking. Well not really because I > am just raising more questions. > If Talia and Rolan can't mindspeak why can she mind-speak to other > people, as I seem to remember her doing it the Arrows Trilogy when > she worked with other people. I also know that when she first meant > Rolan, that Rolan mind-spoke to her. Well, in the Orientation Class, they are told that there is one time when the Companion _always_ speeks to his or her Chosen. That is at the time of the choosing. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 09:56:12 -0400 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Choosing the Monarch's Own Herald Message-ID: <9509171356.AA06784-+AT+-water.waterw.com> Wasn't there a little bit in one of the books (I'm thinking in Mage Winds somewhere, but it could have been in "Storm Warning") about the Companions already starting to "fight" over who gets to Choose which of Selenay and Daren's twins. What does this do to the speculation that one of them is going to be the MOH? Would the Companions "fight" over the right to be a 'temp'? (Because it says in "Arrows of the Queen" that if the Monarch's Own Companion dies a new one appears from the Grove - NOT that the next MOC is already on 'stand-by' in Companion's Field) Jeanne Hedge jhedge-+AT+-water.waterw.com 75512.1214-+AT+-compuserve.com ================================================================ "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink..." --Samuel Taylor Coleridge, 'The Rime of the Ancient Mariner' ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:57:02 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia, Rolan, and mindspeaking Message-ID: <199509171357.23667.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Fri, 15 Sep 1995 18:05:21 +0100, "Jennifer S. Broekman" said: > Edward B. Adams wrote: >> Are there any other full heralds who can't mindspeak to their >> Companions? I can't think of any right now, but that doesn't mean much > There's the brickhead (Lores?) in _Magic's Power_. I always got the > feeling that any Herald who wasn't a MindSpeaker probably didn't > chatter with his/her Companion the way that the MindSpeakers do, > especially those with generally weak Gifts. Randale wasn't a good mindspeaker either, was he? There are several examples. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:01:26 +0100 From: Jennifer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509162059.aa13249-+AT+-buffnet1.buffnet.net> >> Companions only choose people with Gifts. As Vanyel had only potential >> when he came to Haven, Yfandes wouldn't have chosen him if he'd been the >> nicest, most considerate, most practical kid on Earth. > >Hmm. They certainly don't only choose people with *active* gifts; if you look >at _Arrows of the Queen_ that seems to be the exception rather than the >rule. If I remember correctly, most peoples Gifts develop *after* they've >been chosen for a while (with a nudge from the companions, perhaps?). >Whether that's different from Van's case, I'm not sure - maybe there's a >distinction between [has potential for gift] [has gift but isn't active] >and [has active gift] :-). > >-- > _|_ > / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) > \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) >\__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternat Perhaps, during Vanel's time, only those with active gifts were chosen. However, by the time Talia was chosen, those with the potenetial to develop gifts were chosen before their gifts became active; maybe to avoid the problems that often arose when previously normal children began exhibiting what might have been viewed by their families and friends as unusual or sinister behavior. Remember the reaction that Tylendel's family had when his mage gift went active. Had he been chosen before he went active, he would probably have been spared a great deal of mental anguish. I know I'm rambling but I thought I'd add my own $0.02 worth. Peace to all Jennifer Peace to all Jennifer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- I made the choice to become a Herald, and if I knew I was going to die tomorrow, I still wouldn't choose otherwise. -Talia (Arrows of the Queen) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:01:33 +0100 From: Jennifer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... Message-ID: <9509162119.aa14119-+AT+-buffnet1.buffnet.net> > > Why couldn't Yfandes have been grove-born 10 years or more prior >to Vanyel's arrival?? That argument and the "she bore two foals" >argument don't hold water IMHO. We don't KNOW that much about the >grove-born Companions to say whether or not they could bear offspring. >Doesn't Talia tease Skif when Cymry and Rolan go off to themselves at the >Waystation when he meets her and Kris? About the increased fertility of >a grove-born stallion?? So, why couldn't ANY grove-born mare (Yfandes >included) bear foals? Perhaps Yfandes was "called" too early, or >couldn't get to Van to choose him for some reason? There's no reference >to her NOT having Chosen before (just that she hasn't Chosen IN ten >years), as well, maybe there WERE other >Companions that Chose again after the loss of their Herald - at least >back then, and probably still would be rare. > >Ceci I agree. In the Arrows series, its mentioned that there hasn't been a grove born companion other than the MO's companion for centuries. However, I can't help remembering that Rolan deliberately erased Talia's memory of Gwena's origins. It is entirely possible that this was not the first time that people "forgot" that a companion was grove born. Also, in Winds of Fury, when they meet Vanel in Sorrows, he mentioned that even though Gwena is grove born and thinks she is infallible, she lacks human experience I think that maybe Yfandes was grove born but needed the ten years before Van was chosen to prepare for the very special circumstances she would have to help him face. I think that Yfandes knew quite literally what her bond with Van would lead to and without that preparation, Van and Yfandes would not have been able to defeat Leareth. Any thoughts? Peace to all Jennifer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- I made the choice to become a Herald, and if I knew I was going to die tomorrow, I still wouldn't choose otherwise. -Talia (Arrows of the Queen) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 10:25:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward B. Adams" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > On Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:21:05 +0100, "Cecile S. Ueltschey" said: > > > argument don't hold water IMHO. We don't KNOW that much about the > > grove-born Companions to say whether or not they could bear offspring. > > > I expect that grove-born Companions can bear foals, yes. :=) Oh, I agree that Grove-born can bear offspring. The reason why I used the foals in an arguement was to give my reason why Yfandes couldn't have been Grove-born on the night of 'Lendel's death. > > Doesn't Talia tease Skif when Cymry and Rolan go off to themselves > > at the Waystation when he meets her and Kris? About the increased > > fertility of a grove-born stallion?? So, why couldn't ANY > > grove-born mare (Yfandes included) bear foals? Perhaps Yfandes was > > "called" too early, or couldn't get to Van to choose him for some > > reason? > > > Now, Van was only 16 when he was Chosen. If she came to Choose him > when she was born, or "born", he would only be 6 years old, and that > would be too early to say anything about what he was going to be. > > But, what if Yfandes, or some other Companion, _knew_ that in about 10 > years, there would come one who needed an _adult_ Companion, a grown > Companion who would not make a mistake? In that case, a Grove-born would be the last thing they would want. Remember that Gwena made all those mistakes in trying to manipulate Elspeth, and she had about 8 years of experience at the time, and all of that had been linked to Elspeth. Now, how could Yfandes get the kind of maturity and experience that she shows in only 10 years of seeing the Herald's world only second hand through other Companions? Remember, that ROLAN made some serious mistakes in handling Elspeth, and he has been around for about 20-30 years at least (I haven't read "Stolen SIlver" so I'm not sure how long before AOTQ it takes place) OK, so a Grove-born might be a more impressive guardian spirit that a so-called "normal" Companion; but (s)he lacks any true human experience: the same experience that it seems to me that Yfandes is showing all the time. Yes, she does have Gifts in excess of the normal, but so does Van. Yes, Van does need a special Companion. But he needs a Companion with the experience not to screw things up. With the entire scene with Lord Withen, a Grove-born probably would have stopped Van from knocking his father around. Without having lived as a human, how would she know that Van needed to do that and would have stopped before Withen was truely injured. All in all, she shows far more delicacy than any of the Grove-born that we are introduced to. With all due respect to the Grove-born, I don't think that they truely understand people, at least not without decades of being bonded to their chosen. Finally, when Elspeth and Skif go to visit Kero's old mage (sorry, mind blank on the name, and my books are buried right now), one of the first things that he sees is Gwena shining out as the most powerful guardian spirit that he had ever seen. Now Van spent years in the field with Yfandes, and he probably had his mage-sight active quite a bit (Remember in Winds of Change where Elspeth realized the benefits of using mage-sight). It would have taken an almost constant effort of Yfandes' part to mess with Van's head to keep him from noticing: a luxury that niether of them probably had in the middle of a war zone. Come to think of it, a Grove-born companion is probably the last one you would want on a battle line: the white uniforms are bad enough, a Grove-born would attract the attention of any mage in the area. Well, I've probably beaten the subject to death by now Zhai'helleva Ned Ned Adams AKA S.Baldric If this is a trial of my abilities, the gods have no sense of proportion sbaldric-+AT+-roanoke.infi.net (Darkwind k'Sheyna) (703) 890-0212 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 15:46:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: About Talia Message-ID: <01HVDYTCLUN68ZE7NX-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Aphrael > >If Talia and Rolan can't mindspeak why can she mind-speak to other > >people, as I seem to remember her doing it the Arrows Trilogy when > >she worked with other people. I also know that when she first meant > >Rolan, that Rolan mind-spoke to her. >But she *can't* mindspeak other people. She's an *empath*. She's >got only one, albeit very strong, Gift. Ylsa to Talia in AotQ: "I've told you that no one ever has *just* one Gifdt with no hint of the others, haven't I? You've got enough thought-sensing and Sight to possibly be useful in an emergency - maybe just a hint of Healing as well. Anyway, the difference between their Gifts and yours is that you will generally have to See things through the eyes of someone present unless there's a *lot* of emotional residuum to hold you, and then it will be very vague." So, that means that Talia _does_have Gifts other than Empathy. I also think that the little Healing that Ylsa sees is her not understanding the Gift of MindHealing. At some point, Devan says something like, "We only have one other MindHealer besides you right now.", although that's just form memory. It seems to me like the qualifications for being MO is MindHealing, and that Gift that always makes Talia say the right thing to Selenay. Mat T. -------------------------------- | Mat Timmerman | | accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu | | mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu | -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:15:37 -0400 From: duvall.23-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stacy Hunt DuVall) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Yfandes Message-ID: <199509172015.QAA12128-+AT+-postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> While everyone's speculating about Yfandes, heres my .02...:-) I really think that we would've been told if Yfandes was Grove-born. I also would like it, I think, if she wasn't Grove-born. If she was, it makes the story, well, forced. Its no fun to think that _everything_ is predetermined. Besides, why would Van "see" Yfandes as a woman if she was grove born? IMHO, Yfandes is a wonderful, strongly gifted "regular" Companion who happened to bond someone that really needed her help. Its really distasteful to think that all of the events leading to Van's choosing were planned. Stacy Hunt DuVall...beware the Chemistry Avenger! duvall.23-+AT+-osu.edu "And so may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables!"-The Tick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:42:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright I surrender Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, MR DAVID W BAHRKE wrote: > I think that Elspeth could make a very good MO. I think > that she has matured a lot over the years. No, Elspeth would not make a good Monarch's Own. She's too vengeful, too unabashedly smart, and too forward. Besides, can you imagine Elspeth playing second fiddle to anybody else? In addition, there'd be too many people suspecting Elspeth of total manipulation of the Monarch. The most convincing argument of all, Elspeth just isn't nice enough. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-plato.simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:43:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright I surrender Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, MR DAVID W BAHRKE wrote: > In response to an earlier statement I think that Elspeth > could make a very good MO. I think that she has matured > a lot over the years. > > David Actually Elspeth probally would be one of the worst people to fill the MO's position. She is very professional and cold. Doesn't tolerate imperfection, and is very very caught up in her mage work. Almost the opposite of Talia, who understands people, and is very good with almost anyone. My .02, --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:50:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Wendy Howell To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright I surrender Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, MR DAVID W BAHRKE wrote: > Ok, I guess I will have to capitulate and admit that MOC has to be a > stallion, but I still don't like it. In response to an earlier > statement I think that Elspeth could make a very good MO. I think > that she has matured a lot over the years. > > David > i really don't think elspeth would make a good MO. she has matured a lot, but i don't think she really has the personality. for one thing, she's just too damn blunt with people (she doesn't seem to be able to or to want to sugarcoat things). for another, she would be too close to the monarch (her mother or sibling) to step back and look at things objectively, which is necessary for giving good advice. -winterhart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 16:53:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > On Thu, 14 Sep 1995 18:49:16 +0100, Eugene said: > > > > True, but does Savil not state that she is dissapointed that none of > > Treesa and Withen's children share her gifts. Vanyel remembers her > > saying this after she tests him for Gifts and he comes up with > > "potential only". Surely Savil would have said something at this > > point like "well if he gets chosen he'll develop gifts", or something > > similiar, if this were possible. > > > Did Savil know what criterias the Companions Chose after? I mean, > Vanyel might have had active Gifts, but that wouldn't mean he got > Chosen? > No, nobody knows what personality type criteria the Companions base their Choosing on, but she did know that Companions only choose those with Gifts. And Savil was second to none in detecting Gifts, Van says so in the beginning of Magic's Promise. BTW, what does that saying mean in the end of your sig, Ina ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-plato.simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:02:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lots of things. Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Sep 1995, Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > On Fri, 15 Sep 1995 03:01:36 +0100, Kerry Mealing said: > (snip) > > I think that Van's gifts were being roused slowly by continued > > proximity to companions and more particularly by his life-bond with > > a practicing mage. I think Van would have been chosen by Yfandes > > eventually anyway - he was heading in the right direction and that > > Tylendel's death just precipated events. (ie, I agree with Aphrael, > > Catherine, Cecilia and co). > > > Now, _that_ is a theory I could agree with. > I could almost agree with that theory, except Tylendel's death didn't cause much except Van's attempt at suicide. What tore open's Van's channels was the release of Gate energy through him when Savil and ?Jaysen? couldn't ground it properly. But I will admit Van did seem to be developing Foresight and maybe a little empathy. And he was developing into a decent human being and a wonderful actor. Adrienne, who accidentally deleted her sig. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 18:46:09 -0400 (EDT) From: diamond-+AT+-wizvax.net (Jill Wilber) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: > >> I admit, however, that if I ended up with a Companion, I'd rather have > >> one like Yfandes or Cymry or Tantris or Sayvil than a Grove Born > >> Companion. The ones who were Heralds seem to be far more partners with > >> their Heralds than the Grove Born ones are. I don't like being manipulated. > >> > >I think Gwena is the only one like that. I consider Rolan to be a -perfect- > >partner for Talia. > > > > But mind you, Rolan was deeply involved with the manipulation of Elspeth > into following the Companion's plan for her Great Destiny- beginning with > bringing a new Grove Born to be her Companion. Plus he made Talia forget > the arrival of Gwena. > If I where Talia, I sure wouldn't have wanted to know that Gwena was grove born. It would have made her wonder -why- instead of doing her job to the full extent. Diamond ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 144 *********************************