MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 146 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 144 by Elise M Packee 2) Re: Well Since I lost the MOC Battle..... by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 3) Re: Well Since I lost the MOC Battle..... by "Edward B. Adams" 4) Re: Monarch's Own by "Edward B. Adams" 5) Question that has been bugging me. by GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU 6) Re: Question that has been bugging me. by "Kristin A. Ruhle" 7) Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by Hank Cannon 8) Re: Alright I surrender by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 9) Re: I Have A Question... by WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com (MR DAVID W BAHRKE) 10) Re: unsubscribing by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 11) Re: Lots of things. by Ina Faye-Lund 12) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by Ina Faye-Lund 13) Re: Alright I surrender by Ina Faye-Lund 14) Re: LHM(SPOILER) by Ina Faye-Lund 15) Re: Alright I surrender by Ian MacDonald 16) Re: In defence of Elspeth by Ina Faye-Lund 17) SPOILER STORM RISING by Ian MacDonald 18) Re: Question that has been bugging me. by Catherine Osborne 19) Di by "Aphrael" 20) Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by Adrienne York 21) Re: Lots of things. by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 22) Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by SilverFire 23) Re: Alright I surrender by Mat Timmerman 24) Re: LHM(SPOILER) by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 18:32:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Elise M Packee To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 144 Message-ID: okay, going to stick my nose in on this. _Arrows Fall_ Dirk and Elspeth are having a conversation about Companions and gifts on the way to the border of Hardorn. I seem to recall that there was a brief tangent on Grove-Born companions. Also, that tangent I believe mentioned Yfandes somehow. My books are in storage in Oregon, And I am in Montana. So if someone could look up that passage, maybe that will help in the discussion whether grove-born or not... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 95 11:43:39 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Well Since I lost the MOC Battle..... Message-ID: <9509190143.AA04526-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> David wrote: > I feel like I have to defend Elspeth, since no one else seems to want > to. Yes, she can be cold and professional. HOWEVER, there have been > occasions where I believe she is really starting to show show some > warmth. Like the time she ran after An'Desha(sp?) when she saw the > look of despair on his face. As for the charge that she is wrapped > up in her gift, look at what they are facing right now! Of course > she has she is working almost nonstop 24 hours a day trying to solve > the problems of the Mage-Storms. Granted she may not be the perfect > person right now, but in the hopefully long time until Talia meets > the mysterious Valdamaren deity I think that she will have developed > more than enough to become MOC. I agree with you about Elspeth becoming warmer - what she did for Ande'sha was warm-hearted of her and shows her growing inter-personal skills, tact and confidence in herself. The things other people mentioned here (Gwena's not Roland, rumours about Elspeth manipulating the heir, Elspeth not having Empathy or Mindhealing) are probably far more likely to stop her becoming MO. Besides, she's pretty much got enough on her plate with everything else going on and probably will have for quite some time to come. Every herald is supposed to have that caring side, even if some have difficulty showing it.. Elspeth doesn't have anything particularly to recommend her for the position above any other herald. (If I were a Monarch, while I'd appreciate Elspeth's knowledge of what it means to be a monarch, I'd rather not have that knowledge standing at my right hand all the time. If I need it, I can seek her out and ask. It can't do that much for your confidence if the person who abdicated in favour of you is standing beside you (and you know that they're better qualified to do your job than you are). If that makes sense. :) Anyway.. just my 0.02 Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com Wandering by lonely-sea breakers and sitting by desolate streams. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:46:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward B. Adams" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Well Since I lost the MOC Battle..... Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, MR DAVID W BAHRKE wrote: > the problems of the Mage-Storms. Granted she may not be the perfect > person right now, but in the hopefully long time until Talia meets > the mysterious Valdamaren deity I think that she will have developed > more than enough to become MOC. > OK, possibly in time she could develop enough to become MOH (I'm presuming that MOC is a misprint, unless you were refering to her reincarnating as the MOC, which is a whole different arguement (Sorry, no offense meant)) but I can easily see her in the same situation that Van is in in Magic's Price. As the most powerful/best trained Herald-Mage Adept, she is just too valuable doing what she is right now. Even once those two other Herald-Mage Adepts reach their full training, I doubt that she could be spared from being on the "front lines", since I sincerely doubt that the Eastern Empire and Valdemar are going to become best friends. Besides, I don't see Gwena stepping aside for Rolan or whoever follows him... Zhai'helleva Ned (BTW: I'm not intentionally automatically taking the opposite view from you on every issue: I'm just finding this debate to be a lot of fun ) Ned Adams aka S. Baldrick Do not meddle in the affairs of cats For they are subtle and will piss on your (540) 890-0212 computer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:50:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward B. Adams" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Monarch's Own Message-ID: On Mon, 18 Sep 1995, Thomas, Daria wrote: > > Actually, normal inbreeding problems wouldn't occur with Companions-- > no bad recessives to begin with! > -Daria > And the personal oversight of whatever diety takes care of Valdemar would catch any mutations that happen to slip in.... Zhai'helleva Ned (Who is hoping that this thread doesn't shift to horsebreeding, although there is a wealth of material to talk about in the Shin'a'in breeding progams... Ned Adams aka S. Baldrick Do not meddle in the affairs of cats For they are subtle and will piss on your (540) 890-0212 computer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:13:41 -0400 (EDT) From: GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Question that has been bugging me. Message-ID: <950918231341.202103a9-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU> I have a question that I am sure all of you can answer! Who is Ghost? I know he is a companion, but I am not sure who he is. Is he in Storm Warning? I am at college and my books are at home and I am going to have to wait until Thanksgiving to see them so I hope someone will answer this question for me. Okay, now my two cents about Elspeth. I rember somewhere in the Winds series it being mentioned that one of the twins was going to the MO. (I think once again I wish my books were here.) I think that Elspeth would make a great MO. She has changed a lot from the headstrong girl that decided to seek her own path and reject the one the companions had choosen from her. As Joanna said (I hope I spelled that right!) she did run after An'desha when he ran away after almost killing Vanyel. I think that Elspeth would be a great MO in the changing times of Valdamer. The MO has to be someone who is not afraid of change because in the coming time there is going to be a lot of change. Well, anyway I think I have rattled on enough here. I hope that someone can make sense of this. I just got back from play rehersal and my brain is dead. A nervous first time poster (see Joanna you are not alone.) :) Jennie 8-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:21:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Question that has been bugging me. Message-ID: <199509190621.AA16121-+AT+-bolero.rahul.net> > > I have a question that I am sure all of you can answer! Who is Ghost? I know > he is a companion, but I am not sure who he is. Is he in Storm Warning? > I am at college and my books are at home and I am going to have to wait until > Thanksgiving to see them so I hope someone will answer this question for me. Re-read LHM....Ghost appears in Magic's Promise; he Chooses Tashir. We never learn his "real" name if he has one. Everybody seems content to call him Ghost. I rather doubt he's gonna turn up in the Storm trilogy since this is a completly different historical period. Ghost was a rather special companion who was needed for an unusual situation; he was a mindhealer and as Yfandes said, "it happens when it is needed." > Okay, now my two cents about Elspeth. I rember somewhere in the Winds > series it being mentioned that one of the twins was going to the MO. (I think > once again I wish my books were here.) I think that Elspeth would make a great > MO. She has changed a lot from the headstrong girl that decided to seek her > own path and reject the one the companions had choosen from her. As Joanna > said (I hope I spelled that right!) she did run after An'desha when he ran > away after almost killing Vanyel. I think that Elspeth would be a great MO in > the changing times of Valdamer. The MO has to be someone who is not afraid of > change because in the coming time there is going to be a lot of change. Well, > anyway I think I have rattled on enough here. I hope that someone can make > sense of this. I just got back from play rehersal and my brain is dead. > A nervous first time poster (see Joanna you are not alone.) :) Elspeth certainly was changed by her experiences in the Winds trilogy, but I think a certain amount of headstrong nature is *essential* to her personality. She's assertive and has a strong sense of duty as when she knows she can serve Valdemar best by abdicating as Heir. However, I don't think she could be MO - totally different personalities are called for in a Monarch and in an MO. As Vanyel tells Randale and Shavri in Magic's Promise when he's tested Jisa for gifts, the qualities that make a *good* Monarch's Own are weakness in a Monarch. For instance an Empath can't be monarch because they would be too suseptible to being influenced by others. Could not the reverse also be true: what makes a good Monarch is weakness in a Monarch's Own? The MO must be sensitive to *others* immeditely around him/her first, and primariy to the Monarch...Empathy such as Talia's is very valuable in this position. The Monarch must make firm decisions and *hold* to them. Elspeth was Heir before the whole Winds thing happened, and before she became Herald Mage there wasn't a lot of dispute about whether she could be Queen since she'd been Chosen. (Although there were those who thought she might have inherited "bad blood" from her father.) I don't think anyone would have confused her with MO material. Just my $0.03 Kristin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 01:44:30 -0600 (CST) From: Hank Cannon To: Mercedes-Lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: Has anyone else read the Diana Tregarde novels? If so, let's discuss them. Wind to thy wings. Hank ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:32:13 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright I surrender Message-ID: <9509190732.AA13970-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > > Also, isn't Empathy one of the Gift which distinguish MO from other > Heralds? Talia has it, Jissa had it. And Elspeth does not have it > (that we know of). > It's certainly useful for the MO, but not required - I thought one of the reasons Talia had problems was that there hadn't been an Empath around for a while, so there wasn't a standard training process? (and I'm pretty sure that Talia's predecessor wasn't an Empath). I suspect it depends on the needs of the monarch - Empathy is always going to be handy, but sometimes other things may be more important; for example, I'd guess it would be very handy to have *someone* with ForeSight around if that's not one of the Monarch's Gifts - obviously, it doesn't have to be the MO, but they're the herald most likely to be around when you need them :-) -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 03:30:51 EDT From: WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com (MR DAVID W BAHRKE) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I Have A Question... Message-ID: <013.01530002.WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com> Ghost is the companion of Tashir(SP?), the heir to the throne of Baires and as it turns out in the end Lineas as well. I beleive it is in Magic's Price in LHM, although i could be mistaken. Zhai'Helleva, David Go ahead Ned tell me I got the name wrong or something, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:11:29 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: unsubscribing Message-ID: <9509190911.AA00443-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > How do I unsubscribe from the mailing list? I got on back when I didn't > have any NewsGroup access, but since I now am on the newsgroup, I'm > getting a lot of duplicate postings. Are you? You shouldn't be. The mailing list and the newsgroup are not connected in any way, shape or form, except for having some of the same people posting/ mailing to both. There is no gateway between the two. To unsubscribe, send mail to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk with a blank subject line (or as close as your system will allow; AOL/Compuserve folks should put in something like "No Subject"), and the message unsubscribe mercedes-lackey Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:25:22 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: <199509191025.16107.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:29:17 +0100, "Cecile S. Ueltschey" said: > On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, Helen M. Wilfehrt wrote: >> But mind you, Rolan was deeply involved with the manipulation of Elspeth >> into following the Companion's plan for her Great Destiny- beginning with >> bringing a new Grove Born to be her Companion. Plus he made Talia forget >> the arrival of Gwena. I wouldn't call that manipulation. Some of it, yes, but _not_ by bringing the Gwena. And about the forgetting, it _was_ the logical thing to do, all things considered. > ALL of the Companions were involved in that one. Elspeth HAD to get her > Mage-gift trained and for them the "safest" path was through Kero's > connections to the White Winds school. Remember, they didn't trust the > Shin'a'in Goddess. Although I think She may have had a hand in Elspeth's > rebellion?? Or at least in the Shin'a'in directing her to k'Shena vale. > It seems that several pieces needed to get put together to face the > coming Mage Storms, and Firesong, Darkwind and An'desha had to get to > Valdemar SOMEHOW. The Companions just didn't see The Big Picture so to > speak and tried to direct her on too narrow of a path. I don't agree. She might have had something to do with the Shin'a'in directing her, but I doubt she did anything more. Remember, interfering in that way is not her style. The rebel was there, she just gave it a way to show. Sooner or later it would have shown anyway, because that was the way Elspeth _was_. She didn't like being guided, or manipulated, and so, I think she would have gone some other way, just because the Companions tried to push her onto a path. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:31:06 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: <199509191031.16777.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:12:30 +0100, Catherine Osborne said: > On Sat, 16 Sep 1995, Sunfalcon wrote: >> anything like this has been suggested, but here goes: Is it >> possible that the Monarch's Own lives so long because he functions >> as some sort of coordinator for the Web (and, subsequently, the >> enhancements Vanyel made to it)? I seem to recall that the reason >> all the Heralds are tied into each other (the reason someone with >> an appropriate Gift is always on hand to deal with "situations") >> was because they were all bonded to Companions. Maybe the M'sO >> serves as a nexus for them. Then again, maybe not. =) > That is an extremely interesting theory. It strikes me as possible > that in the increaseingly wartorn and desperate last days of the > Herald-Mages (and I consider Misty's war-evacuation scenes in LHM > and BG some of her best writing) someone thought that it would be > good to have the Web tied to a non-human, particularly one who lived > (almost) forever, or at least until he was killed. I think not. First, remember when Vanyel made the web, all the Companions withdrew. They had been apart before, and so they would remain. Also, to tie the web to someone who can be killed, wouldn't that be a bit careless? Another thing; other mages could sense the vrondi, could they too have become a part of the web, if they tried? Or what about others with Mind-Powers? -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:27:51 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright I surrender Message-ID: <199509191027.16423.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:35:53 +0100, Jean Morrill said: > Also, isn't Empathy one of the Gift which distinguish MO from other > Heralds? Talia has it, Jissa had it. And Elspeth does not have it > (that we know of). I don't think that Empathy is only showing in MOs. Remember, Tylendel had it, Vanyel had it, and didn't several others have it as well? I think that a MO needs Empathy, it's not a requirement, but it is a great help. Also, most other Heralds have Empathy in less strength than the MOs. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:44:18 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509191044.17699.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> [Cecile S. Ueltschey] > That's a good point Jennifer, I think we tend to forget how much > time is passing between books sometimes. After all, we can say that > something was "customary" 200 years ago but we can't say it was > "always" done. That may be something that the > Companions/reincarnated Heralds have learned. Nearly 600 years passes between Vanyel's death and _Arrows_. Things _do_ change. Just look at our own world. :=) > Too, it was said in AoQ in Talia's Orientation class (along with the > fact that the MOC is always a stallion) that the MOC always goes in > search for his Chosen - implying that other Companions do not. Not always, anyway. Remember, plenty of Heralds were Chosen outside Haven. I think that the point was that MOC _always_ searches for his Chosen. Then, there is another question; Shavri was at Haven when she was Chosen, wasn't she? And Jisa was supposed to be Taver's next choice. How, then, can Taver go searching for the MO? > So that someone has to be in Haven, unless there are intervening > circumstances (like Alberich, Ghost, and Kerowyn and Daren), to be > Chosen. And Teren says that no one really knows WHY the Companions > pick their particular Chosen. Perhaps their potentials outweigh any > character flaws, or just that the Companions are _not_ omnipotent. However, although the Heralds are special, a lot of those who are Chosen outside Haven are exceptional. MOs are MOs, but look at Tylendel. He was powerful. Not as much as Vanyel, but still a very powerful mage. Look at Alberich, he too is rather special. Kero and Daren, Tashir, all those are more colourful characters. > And as for why Van wasn't Chosen upon arrival at the Collegium, I > think has more to do with his dependent-personality rather than lack > of active gifts or arrogance or other faults. Or maybe that the Companions weren't ready for him? I think perhaps he had to learn about love from another human, not a Companion. Also, I don't know if it would have been possible to mistrust a Companion, but the way Vanyel was when he came, would he have trusted a Companion at that point? And, even if he had trusted her, would he _ever_ have been able to trust another human if he first gave his love to Yfandes? -- IFL Elen sla lmenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:56:58 +0100 From: Ian MacDonald To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright I surrender Message-ID: <11460.199509191056-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk> > It's certainly useful for the MO, but not required - I thought one of the > reasons Talia had problems was that there hadn't been an Empath around for > a while, so there wasn't a standard training process? (and I'm pretty sure > that Talia's predecessor wasn't an Empath). > I think that it is a requiment for MO, the problem with Talia was that she has a very strong gift, instead of having it as a secondary or minor gift. I think it would be very important to have empathy as a gift since you have to be able to detect stress etc in the monarc. > I suspect it depends on the needs of the monarch - Empathy is always going > to be handy, but sometimes other things may be more important; for example, > I'd guess it would be very handy to have *someone* with ForeSight around if > that's not one of the Monarch's Gifts - obviously, it doesn't have to be > the MO, but they're the herald most likely to be around when you need them :-) Farsight isn;t important in a MO since since other people can infrom the MO of the problem, but since the MO is advisor and basic body gard of the M It would seem that empathy would be a good thing, if not esential for the stability of the M. Just my opinion Ian < all of a sudden a whisper of sound occurs then the sound of a body hitting a keyboard. "Good thing we had darts", one of the white coated men said to the other as they dragged ian's body from the terminal.> < ism-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:56:55 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: In defence of Elspeth Message-ID: <199509191056.18152.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:18:30 +0100, Joanna Hilken said: > How did this start about Elspeth as MO? Surely she'd never accept > the position because it would start up all the same rumours as her > abdication was supposed to damp down, wouldn't it? And another thing; she was a Herald-Mage. Some of the reason why she didn't want to be Heir, was that she thought she was needed elsewhere. She would have to risk her life for Valdemar, but in ways that neither the MO nor the Monarch should do. So, I think the reason for refusing the throne would be the same as the reason for not becoming MO. And, of course, Elspeth wasn't _right_ for that position. She _might_ have made an ok monarch, and I guess that too would have made her unfit as MO. > But just supposing some twist of the plot forced it on her, I'm not > sure she'd be so dreadful. Talia was chosen by companions to be MO > (very young) to an experienced and highly competent Queen, and with > a view to de-bratifying Elspeth. In this context, she is obviously > first-rate and Elspeth would be awful. The MO is to suit the > monarch. I agree. The MO was chosen for a specific reason, and I think that if the monarch should have a MO who was not only her or his sister, but also an elder sister, who _should_, by right of birth and Companion, sit on the throne...That would make things complicated. > But what Elspeth would have to contribute would be her wide > experience of other countries/cultures, and personal understanding > of the position of heir/monarch through having been groomed for the > post. Could be just the thing for a very young monarch, say one of > the twins had to take the crown during a war in which Selenay and > the other twin got killed. Still, as things turned out, Valdemar got a new bond to Rethwellan, didn't they? And Karse is less a threat than it was. Also, Iftel is not a very great threat. They keep inside their borders. The only threat left is Hardon, and I think that even if Selenay got killed, Rethwellan would help, because of Daren's position. > Besides, anyone who has faced up to the things about themselves that > she has would have some good advice to give to a young monarch. But others too could advice the monarch. As an elder sister, I think she could do that, and the monarch would pay it the attention it deserved. Being both elder sister and MO would be a "proof" that Elspeth was right. She did mistakes, and I think that as "only" elder sister, she could advice her younger sister or brother. But he or she would also have another councellor, the MO. So, he or she could judge those against eachother, and hopefully find the right decision. > I hope this makes sense to someone, > Somewhat Nervous first time poster, Don't be nervous. I don't want to slap you in the face in any way...just expressing _my_ opinion. :=) -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:06:41 +0100 From: Ian MacDonald To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: SPOILER STORM RISING Message-ID: <11507.199509191106-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk> --SPOILER STORM RISING ============= Ok Ms Lackey has gone and really spilled the beens. Heralds have the choice of coming back as companions, they can even go round a few times!! It's not fare no what are we going to do for discussion!! Any way I am half way through Storm Rising so don't spoil the end, but Do you think Fire song is acting a bit daft in his search for the way to live on and on, it sort of stuggests he might have been infected by Maar. Personally I think he is being a bit selfish wanting And'est (SP) for him self in a horible clingy way. Wonder if that the way ML felt about her first husband? And a General question do you think that ML books are becoming more shallow in the character department. I don't mean the main character but the other people. Thats what I really liked about the Arrrows books, there were so many other characters that you dicovered bits about eg Mero and his book of One etc. I thought white gryphon was really bad for that you only find anything out about the 4 main characters nothing about the rest. Storm rising is slightly better but they are just slightly lacking Just wondering Ian < all of a sudden a whisper of sound occurs then the sound of a body hitting a keyboard. "Good thing we had darts", one of the white coated men said to the other as they dragged ian's body from the terminal.> < ism-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 07:51:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Question that has been bugging me. Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Kristin A. Ruhle wrote: > Re-read LHM....Ghost appears in Magic's Promise; he Chooses Tashir. We > never learn his "real" name if he has one. Everybody seems content to His real name is Lesh'ya, Shin'a'in for "spirit". This is only mentioned once in LHM, and I have no clue where, since my books are on loan. I\/ Catherine Osborne "I will not go down to I\/ Sundancer posterity talking bad I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu grammar." I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ --Disraeli ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:04:45 EST From: "Aphrael" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Di Message-ID: >Has anyone else read the Diana Tregarde novels? >If so, let's discuss them. Cool! Here's a question that will start things off with a bang. Did anyone get a little annoyed with Di somewhere in the middle of _Burning Water_? She seemed to get just a little full of herself, and for all of her protestations of tolerence, was peculiarly *intolerant* of Mark's questions. As a Catholic myself, I'm surprised that Mark took what he did as well as he did. You wouldn't believe how young we can get hidebound. So, having said that and donned my flame-proof suit, what does anybody think? Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Tell me why then is the hand slow, and the dog bites. Well I don't know. But the sky will fall and heads will roll, and it's all that we can do to wait for the healing, for to carry on, for to stand when all is said and done in the shadow of the rising sun, longing, waiting for the healing... from _Wait for the Healing_, Amy Grant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:12:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Hank Cannon wrote: > Has anyone else read the Diana Tregarde novels? > If so, let's discuss them. > I read Children of the Night, Burning Water, and Jinx High, but I've never even seen any of the others. Is there a reason they're difficult to find? I would have liked to have seen more of Andre in the last two. I'm intrigued by vampires, but all he did was answer the phone at Diana's apartment. Oh well. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 7:22:26 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: <950919072226.21a1348d-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> This is a long post, consolidating a few posts I wanted to comment on. I tried to snip as much as possible. From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" >I think Valdemar is probably the most >sophisticated country in this recognizing the various gods & goddesses as >ASPECTS of the same single pair, as well as several astute individuals. I disagree. Valdemar does not consider the various gods/godesses as aspects. The rule is that "there is no one true way". As in, each religion is to be allowed and unmolested as long as it doesn't try to interfere with other religions or people's rights. I don't recall anywhere the idea that Valdemarans believe all gods/godesses to be simply aspects. If you know of such a quote, please list here! I'd be very interested. Let's face it, I've missed important "clues" before From: MR DAVID W BAHRKE >I feel like I have to defend Elspeth, since no one else seems to want >to. Yes, she can be cold and professional. HOWEVER, there have been >occasions where I believe she is really starting to show show some >warmth. Like the time she ran after An'Desha(sp?) when she saw the >look of despair on his face. As for the charge that she is wrapped >up in her gift, look at what they are facing right now! Of course >she has she is working almost nonstop 24 hours a day trying to solve >the problems of the Mage-Storms. Granted she may not be the perfect >person right now, but in the hopefully long time until Talia meets >the mysterious Valdamaren deity I think that she will have developed >more than enough to become MOC. Elspeth certainly has changed. She is a more compassionate person. She has learned not to be quite so rash in her thoughts and actions. In other words, she's matured. And become a superb Herald. She has begun to realize the many sacrifices her Heraldship will demand of her, and she's risen to the challenge. But her personality is not an MO personality. She is much to dominant. The MO is a consultant type, someone the Monarch turns to in times of trouble. Yes, the MO has authority, but always secondary to the Monarch. Elspeth has become a good leader, but she works best on her own. She might have made a good Monarch, but definitely isn't MO material, IMHO. From: Catherine Osborne >On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Kristin A. Ruhle wrote: >> Re-read LHM....Ghost appears in Magic's Promise; he Chooses Tashir. We >> never learn his "real" name if he has one. Everybody seems content to >His real name is Lesh'ya, Shin'a'in for "spirit". This is only mentioned >once in LHM, and I have no clue where, since my books are on loan. Nope, I don't think so. Lesh'ya simply means Ghost in this case. Sometimes one is used to refer to this Companion, sometimes the other. As far as we know, either Ghost gave his name to Tashir, or Tashir (or Vanyel) named him that, sort of a nickname. I doubt that Ghost could have given his name to Tashir, neither was very coherent early in the bonding. Remember that not all Companions give their name to their Heralds. Some let the Herald choose a name (again according to the lecture in Talia's oh-so-informative Orientation class). We had some speculation last year that if Heralds can come back as Companions, which is sort of an accepted fact around here, and if they are somewhat close to their own time-period, or simply too well-known in the history of Valdemar, then they may let their Herald choose a name purely for the purpose of hiding their identity. In addition, if a Herald doesn't have mind-speaking, perhaps they have to name their Companion, since they wouldn't know their name? Hmmm. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:47:33 -0500 (EST) From: SilverFire To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: The Diana Tregarde novels were pretty good. Especially liked Children of the Night. If I remember correctly there should be a new one coming out soon. Sorry, if I'm a little incoherent right now, just got up. Wind to thy wings and may you get your heart's desire SilverFire ___________________________________________________________________ Everything I love, I destroy. Everything I destroy, I love. Lews Therin Telamon _Lord of Chaos_ by Robert Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:01:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright I surrender Message-ID: <01HVGHQE48VM8ZEGDF-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Ian MacDonald <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > It's certainly useful for the MO, but not required - I thought one of the > reasons Talia had problems was that there hadn't been an Empath around for > a while, so there wasn't a standard training process? (and I'm pretty sure > that Talia's predecessor wasn't an Empath). > I think that it is a requiment for MO, the problem with Talia was that she has a very strong gift, instead of having it as a secondary or minor gift. I think it would be very important to have empathy as a gift since you have to be able to detect stress etc in the monarc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ylsa *did* say that Empathy was almost never seen in a Herald, and that most Empaths seem to become Healers. What I think is that, like Mage-Gift, they somehow forgot how to detect/train it. Unlike Mage-Gift, though, it was probably an accident this time. IMHO, all MO's have been Empaths to some degree, but it was probably just never noticed. Likely, it was written off as part of the Gift that makes a Herald MO (like how Talia always knows what to say to Selenay). Mat T. -------------------------------- | Mat Timmerman | | accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu | | mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu | -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:44:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > Nearly 600 years passes between Vanyel's death and _Arrows_. Things > _do_ change. Just look at our own world. :=) > Ooops! Well chalk that one up to my books being at home and me at work. But what I was thinking was, for example, in our own country's history how much we DON'T know about the thoughts and motivations behind some of the events and customs of the American Revolutionary or Colonial period. We can make educated guesses, but we can't really know. > > Too, it was said in AoQ in Talia's Orientation class (along with the > > fact that the MOC is always a stallion) that the MOC always goes in > > search for his Chosen - implying that other Companions do not. > > Not always, anyway. Remember, plenty of Heralds were Chosen outside > Haven. I think that the point was that MOC _always_ searches for his > Chosen. Then, there is another question; Shavri was at Haven when > she was Chosen, wasn't she? And Jisa was supposed to be Taver's next > choice. How, then, can Taver go searching for the MO? > Point taken. But I have a question: how did the Heralds (at least those in the Circle) know that Jisa would be Chosen AND as MOH? For that matter, given all the speculation about Elspeth's Choosing, how do they know a) that the twins will be Chosen AND b) that one will be Monarch and one MOH?? > > > So that someone has to be in Haven, unless there are intervening > > circumstances (like Alberich, Ghost, and Kerowyn and Daren), to be > > Chosen. And Teren says that no one really knows WHY the Companions > > pick their particular Chosen. Perhaps their potentials outweigh any > > character flaws, or just that the Companions are _not_ omnipotent. > > However, although the Heralds are special, a lot of those who are > Chosen outside Haven are exceptional. Exactly. Their exceptional characteristics (whatever they are) were needed because of the circumstances that Valdemar was in at the time of their Choosing. Sort of like the "right" gifts appearing just before they are needed. > > > > And as for why Van wasn't Chosen upon arrival at the Collegium, I > > think has more to do with his dependent-personality rather than lack > > of active gifts or arrogance or other faults. > > Or maybe that the Companions weren't ready for him? I think perhaps > he had to learn about love from another human, not a Companion. Also, > I don't know if it would have been possible to mistrust a Companion, > but the way Vanyel was when he came, would he have trusted a Companion > at that point? > And, even if he had trusted her, would he _ever_ have been able to > trust another human if he first gave his love to Yfandes? That could be a big part of it too. Vanyel NEEDED love and approval SO MUCH, maybe it was too much for the Companions, that he might become dependent on whoever Chose him and THAT would not have been "right" either. Thank you, Ina! Cecile ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 146 *********************************