MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 147 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Monarch's Own Gifts (WAS Re: Alright I surrender) by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 2) I'm back! by Liz Peel 3) Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by "Edward B. Adams" 4) Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Norma Gjuka) 5) Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by "Aphrael" 6) Re: Di by Hank Cannon 7) Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 8) Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 9) Re: LHM (SPOILER) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 10) Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by BRIAN DAVISON 11) Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by Mat Timmerman 12) Re: Lots of things. by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 13) Re: Alright I surrender by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 14) Things by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 15) Yfandes by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 16) Re: Alright I surrender by Gyrfalcon 17) Re: LHM(SPOILER) by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 18) Re: I Have A Question... by "Edward B. Adams" 19) Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 20) Re: Lots of things. by Mat Timmerman 21) Re: Di by Adrienne York 22) Re: Things by "Edward B. Adams" 23) Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com 24) Fire Rose by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 25) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by Adrienne York ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:05:49 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Monarch's Own Gifts (WAS Re: Alright I surrender) Message-ID: (BTW, I thought I'd change the name of this thread) On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Ian MacDonald wrote: > > > It's certainly useful for the MO, but not required - I thought one of the > > reasons Talia had problems was that there hadn't been an Empath around for > > a while, so there wasn't a standard training process? (and I'm pretty sure > > that Talia's predecessor wasn't an Empath). > > > I think that it is a requiment for MO, the problem with Talia was that > she has a very strong gift, instead of having it as a secondary or minor > gift. I think it would be very important to have empathy as a gift since > you have to be able to detect stress etc in the monarc. > It probably was a minor gift in previous MOs, including Talamir. Maybe training differs if a gift is minor or major. Or in the TOTAL absence of it in ANY herald, perhaps there were secondary characteristics that were present (don't ask me what, I'm not a Companion! ;-D). I can't remember now if Shavri actually had the Heraldic Gift of Empathy, or if it was the necessity of the Healing Gift for Randale that led to her being Chosen. Healers have a form of Empathy, but I don't think its the same as the Heraldic Gift that Talia has. > > I suspect it depends on the needs of the monarch - Empathy is always going > > to be handy, but sometimes other things may be more important; That is the key, IMHO, "the needs of the monarch". Randale needed a healer, Selenay needed someone who she could confide in AND handle "the Brat", as well as serve as Envoy on "sensitive" missions (e.g. Hardorn and Karse). Talamir's Gifts were probably whatever Selenay's father needed during the Tedrel wars, but were of little help to Selenay (especially personally). Cecil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:54:52 -0500 From: Liz Peel To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: I'm back! Message-ID: <199509191654.LAA00215-+AT+-four.htsd.k12.pa.us> Hi, everybody, this is Liz again. I have a theory on why Vanyel's Bardic gift was never mentioned after Magic's Pawn. Maybe Moonsong, or whatever his name was closed it off to keep vanyel from being overloaded while he was healing him and didn't open it up again because he would have been too tempted to forget magic and become a Bard. Sounds kind of sneaky and manipulative for a Hawkbrother, though. Maybe the Bardic Gift was dormant in his family and so diluted that it wasn't recognized even in the people who had it active and it just closed off by itself since he was too busy to train it. Something like that happened in By the Sword, when Kerowyn realized she could resist Need because she wasn't using her much in the crucial few weeks after they became bonded. This might be the reason why theree aren't too many mind-gifted people outside of Valdemar- nobody has a clue what mind-gifts are and less of a clue of how to train them, so in most cases, they just fade away unnoticed. -Liz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:22:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward B. Adams" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Adrienne York wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Hank Cannon wrote: > > > Has anyone else read the Diana Tregarde novels? > > If so, let's discuss them. > > > > I read Children of the Night, Burning Water, and Jinx High, but I've > never even seen any of the others. Is there a reason they're difficult > to find? The last two (Triangle Park and Arcanium 101) have never been actually written. The contract with Tor for those two was shifted to cover Sacred Ground and shifted again for Firebird (due out in '96, '97). Basically, unless they sell a lot more Di books (since they haven't been selling well, 'though I can't understand why) those two will not be written. That's the bad news > I would have liked to have seen more of Andre in the last two. I'm > intrigued by vampires, but all he did was answer the phone at Diana's > apartment. Oh well. > Now for the good news. Since vampires right now ARE a big commercial item, there is talk of an Andre novel set in 1930 currently refered to as "Andre vs. the Nazis" Now, if it wasn't for her coming out with 4-5 books a year (maybe 6 this year if they can squeeze in Tempest Fugit: does anyone know anything about that?) I would be sorely tempted to say "write faster, write faster" , but as it is, I can wait for Storm Breaking as long as I know that The Silver Gryphon and another Serra book, and a couple of collaborations are on their way Zhai'helleva Ned Ned Adams aka S. Baldrick Do not meddle in the affairs of cats sbaldric-+AT+-roanoke.infi.net For they are subtle and will piss on your (540) 890-0212 computer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:25:05 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Norma Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... Message-ID: <9509191619.AA03193-+AT+-baker> ok. (excuse the punctuation, i write all in lower case letters out of habit. if it gets too annoying, let me know please.) i always asumed that yfandes was not grove born but was born ahead of time to mature and ready herself to be his companion. i'm not saying that she neccisarly knew about vanyel, just that she must have known she'd be chosen eventually. and that after she chose him, she knew what being his companion would entail. She says as much just before the final battle with learth (can't remember spelling.) i don't think she's grove born for many of the earlier reasons, including the one about her appearing as a woman to vanyels sight and the neccessity for her to have human experience. vanyel is a very troubled and often depressed human who is tested again and again to the limit. He needs her experience and support just to survive when he is first chosen and later he is still often a bit unbalanced and prone to self pity. as for Elspeth, she shouldn't be mo. she has too many gifts that will call her away from the monarch's side in times of need. i've noticed that the mo usually has few gifts besides empathy with empathy usually being the strongest one. (shavri was an exception, being a healer.) it seems that they need to be able to focus on being mo without any other obligations or distractions. elspeth can not do that being one of the few herald mages in a time of war. she will always be needed for other things. my personal opinion is also that her spontanious nature and tendancy to act on impulse make her a good warrior and mage, but a poor mo. i've used "'elen sila lu'menn omentilmo" for several years to end letters. nice to see someone else using it, not many do. wonder if maybe we found it in seperate parts of the series and if that would explain spelling diffrences? enough for now- colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:36:37 EST From: "Aphrael" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: >I read Children of the Night, Burning Water, and Jinx High, but I've >never even seen any of the others. Is there a reason they're difficult >to find? Extremely so, seeings how they kind of don't exist yet. :) There have been rumors for years that TOR is about to release (or have Misty finish) two other Di Tregarde books, _Triangle Park_ and _Arcanum 101_. But, according to the publishing grapevine, they have been pushed back indefinately. I've also heard that the Di Tregarde books were not very popular with the general public (as opposed to people who already knew Misty's work) and that that was the reason TP and A101 were put on indefinate hold. Anybody else have any input? Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Tell me why then is the hand slow, and the dog bites. Well I don't know. But the sky will fall and heads will roll, and it's all that we can do to wait for the healing, for to carry on, for to stand when all is said and done in the shadow of the rising sun, longing, waiting for the healing... from _Wait for the Healing_, Amy Grant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:41:35 -0600 (CST) From: Hank Cannon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di Message-ID: Well, both of them were under a lot of pressure. Because of Mark's Catholic upbringing his view of anything non-Catholic was (if you excuse the phrase) not-Kosher. He kept pressuring Di about what was happening because she was supposed to be the specialist on "Pagan" things. Di spazzed because she was being confronted with an Avatar of an Aztec diety who, along with his handmaidens, had her out magicked and out matched. You get into that situation and then have someone question the beliefs upon which her life has been based. Beliefs, unlike Marks comfortable Catholicism, (sorry all you Catholics out there. If you have any direct supernatural manefestation stories let me know), Diana's beliefs have been a physical part of her life, and the people she saved, for years. Wind to Thy Wings Hank Cannon aka Phoenixfire Nscan2659-+AT+-alpha.nsula.edu May your life be interesting. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:37:05 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... Message-ID: <199509191737.NAA12805-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Ina Faye-Lund wrote: >"Helen M. Wilfehrt" said: >> Ten years anticipating the arrival of a certain individual is a bit >> much to expect. >Why? Ghost was a Mind-Healer, and he was needed. The Companions >tended to have the Gifts that their Chosen would need. Just like the >Heralds often are born with powers that will be needed in close >future, why shouldn't the Companions be likewise? Ghost wasn't Grove-born. IMO, Companion talents pop up the same way that Heralds' Gifts pop up, ie. the talent will be needed, but that doesn't mean that an individual is specially crafted and predestined by being given that talent. >Second; Vanyel's death was needed. The border had to be guarded, and >that could only happen through his death. If there had been another way to dispose of Leareth (other than a Final Strike) once he got to the pass, I'm sure another way would've been found to guard the border. Vanyel died because that was the only way to stop Leareth at that point, period. >Third; A greater good came from it. Remember Moondance's words? What greater good? His bond with Stefen? That, after all, is the analogy to what Moondance was talking about... >Fourth; That the deities would not do this to the people, how can you >know? The way Death is pictured, I cannot see why dying should be so >bad? It will give the Heralds a chance to rest, or perhaps get a life >where they don't have to give all they have for Valdemar. The fact that Death is pictured as a Lover doesn't mean that the deities have detailed plans for who dies when in order to advance their own master plan, like a chess player might sacrifice a pawn for board position... -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:43:38 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... Message-ID: <199509191743.NAA12812-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > "Cecile S. Ueltschey" said: >> Why couldn't Yfandes have been grove-born 10 years or more prior >> to Vanyel's arrival?? That argument and the "she bore two foals" >> argument don't hold water IMHO. We don't KNOW that much about the >> grove-born Companions to say whether or not they could bear offspring. 10 years isn't enough to give any meaningful worldly experience, so why would the deity drop a grove-born 10 years early? Since all born Companions are reicarnated Heralds, the argument of her having to bear those two foals doesn't hold any water, since any Companion mare could've done the same. >But, what if Yfandes, or some other Companion, _knew_ that in about 10 >years, there would come one who needed an _adult_ Companion, a grown >Companion who would not make a mistake? The Grove-born Companions are *born* *adult*. She wouldn't need 10 years to grow up if she was Grove-born. (Besides which, I got the feeling that Yfandes was at least 14 when she Chose Vanyel, since no one would've expected her to choose earlier than 8-10...) IMO, there is no point or reason to suspect that Yfandes was Grove-born, other than the impulse to give Vanyel a 'special' Companion, which is silly, since all Companions are special and suited to their Herald. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:46:14 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM (SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509191746.NAA12815-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Helen M. Wilfehrt wrote: >That brings up something else - remember Vanyel finding out that Leareth had >been repeatedly dwindling the ranks of Mages in Valdemar - partly by causing >the "accidental" death of newly awakened individuals with the Mage-Gift. >What if Leareth subtly encouraged Tylendel's somewhat irrational need for >revenge as a means to rid Valdemar of another Mage???? IIRC, in _Magic's Price_, there's a short bit when Vanyel finds out that Leareth has been killing Herald-Mages and potential Herald-Mages, in which he thinks (or says to Yfandes) that Leareth was responsible for instigating the situation which got Tylendel killed, and that the backlash was supposed to have killed him (Vanyel). -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:23:16 -0700 (PDT) From: BRIAN DAVISON To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: <950919112316.9d75-+AT+-cnc.bc.ca> I have found an outlet that carries, to the best of my knowledge, all of the Mercedes Lackey novels. It is a mail-order service on the Internet called Amazon Books. you can reach them at http://www.amazon.com, or through Yahoo. Brian Davison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:29:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: <01HVGOZCJK1E8ZEHTP-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Adrienne York <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Hank Cannon wrote: > Has anyone else read the Diana Tregarde novels? > If so, let's discuss them. > I read Children of the Night, Burning Water, and Jinx High, but I've never even seen any of the others. Is there a reason they're difficult to find? I would have liked to have seen more of Andre in the last two. I'm intrigued by vampires, but all he did was answer the phone at Diana's apartment. Oh well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Umm, Adrienne? There's a very good reason that you've only been able to find those three; there only *are* three Di Tregarde books! Misty was supposed to write two more (Arcanum 101 and Triangle Park, IIRC), but the demand for them isn't high enough, so the publisher doesn't wan't them. This came straight from Misty on the recent Genie Chat, so we know it's true :( She _did_ say, however, that an all Andre book was possible :) (and, no that's not a joke smiley, it's a happy smiley) Mat T. -------------------------------- | Mat Timmerman | | accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu | | mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu | -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 13:55:17 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: Like Starwolf, I am snipping a lot of stuff here. On Tue, 19 Sep 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: > This is a long post, consolidating a few posts I wanted to comment on. > I tried to snip as much as possible. > > From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" > > >I think Valdemar is probably the most > >sophisticated country in this recognizing the various gods & goddesses as > >ASPECTS of the same single pair, as well as several astute individuals. > > I disagree. Valdemar does not consider the various gods/godesses as > aspects. The rule is that "there is no one true way". As in, each > religion is to be allowed and unmolested as long as it doesn't try > to interfere with other religions or people's rights. I don't recall > anywhere the idea that Valdemarans believe all gods/godesses to be simply > aspects. If you know of such a quote, please list here! I'd be > very interested. Let's face it, I've missed important "clues" before > Since I'm at work, I don't have an exact quote, but I think its in Arrow's Fall, when Talia and Kris are going on her training circuit. He's telling her something about the people up there, and says to the effect that "They worship the Lady as Astera and the (Lord?) as Kernos" which implied to me that - at least in Valdemar - there is a central God/Goddess pair called by different names by Valdemarans. Valdemar seems to have grown by immigration to a certain extent and perhaps developed this enveloping philosophy to create harmony among disparate but similar beliefs. I agree that they (at least in Haven, among the Council and Heralds, Healers and Bards) believe "there is no one true way"; partly for expediency - that is, Heralds, Healers, and Bards have to be accepted wherever they go, be trusted to be impartial and not let personal beliefs cloud their judgment, or that of the people they are serving. I realize that this makes it sound cold and calculated, rather than true belief, but perhaps that's how it started. Sort of like our "separation of Church and State" in its original spirit - to prevent persecution of minority beliefs or the rise of a theocratic state, etc. > > not an MO personality. She is much to dominant. The MO is a consultant > type, someone the Monarch turns to in times of trouble. Yes, the > MO has authority, but always secondary to the Monarch. Elspeth > has become a good leader, but she works best on her own. She might > have made a good Monarch, but definitely isn't MO material, IMHO. > I agree with you wholeheartedly there. > On Ghost and Tashir: This is off-track from other conversations about Ghost, but I've been wondering....The whole episode in LHM about the fault and the Heartstone and Tashir/Ghost seemed to me pretty significant. I can't help but think that there will be ramifications seen in the Storms books (have gotten about half-way through Warning). But why didn't Vanyel mention it when Elspeth and co. were in Sorrows? Anyone care to speculate on _this_ thread?? Cecile. P.S. Starwolf is right, this group has taken off. I'm getting 40-60 messages almost every day! What fun! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:16:56 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright I surrender Message-ID: <199509191916.PAA12888-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Jerry Cullingford wrote: >It's certainly useful for the MO, but not required - I thought one of the >reasons Talia had problems was that there hadn't been an Empath around for >a while, so there wasn't a standard training process? (and I'm pretty sure >that Talia's predecessor wasn't an Empath). Talia's predecessor didn't have Empathy as a primary Gift, but that doesn't mean he didn't have it. The problem with training Talia was that there hadn't been anyone with, essentially, *only* Empathy in a long time, so they didn't have a procedure for teaching the basics to someone with primary Empathy. IMO, the 'required' or distinguishing Gift for the MO is a touch of MindHealing, to allow her/him to minister most effectively to Monarch and Circle. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:11:42 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Things Message-ID: <199509191911.AA189387901-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> Various people have brought up the possibility of Elspeth being the next MOH (MO Herald) because Gwena is Grove born like other MOC (MO Companion, defined for clarity) - I would suggest that the same reasons why Vanyel wouldn't have become MOH (duty, mage gift needed more in the field than around Haven) explain why Elspeth wouldn't be MOH either (she is the first Herald-Mage and is more necessary in the field than at Haven proper). Plus, Gwena is obviously not a stallion, one of the qualifying features for the MOC. Plus, have we actually seen a Herald-Mage who is a MOH?? The only other MOH mentioned but not characterized is Elspeth the Peacemaker's (Randale's Mother, I think she was the Peacemaker) MOH..... Herald-Mages, in general, likely would not be needed not as MOH but rather they would need to be available to be sent anywhere as different critical situations required When Elspeth abdicated from the role of Heir, she mentioned something of the fact that she was informed that the twins would be Chosen and that they would likely be Monarch and MOH. As to the competition among the Companions for being Chosen to the twins - the competition might be mainly for the twin who will be Monarch - and at this point they may not know which will be Monarch and which MOH. As to inbreeding among the Companions, that's only a problem if the individuals' genomes (DNA) have recessive inherited mutations which would be detrimental, eg. hemophilia etc. I would agree that it is unlikely that the Companions would have mutations as someone else has mentioned, although the extreme fertility of the MOC might lend itself to keep the Gifts strong among the naturally born Companions. As to Talia's Empathy and other MOH's gifts, the deal with Talia was that her primary gift was Empathy that her Empathy was so strong - as strong as or stronger than many Healers - and strong enough to be used as a weapon. In the Arrows books, the possibility that Empathy in a Herald, might be the qualifying factor for other MOH's, no matter how strong or obvious it is in that particular MOH. It might be likely that the MOH might be Chosen on the basis of how much Empathy that Herald has relative to other Heralds and other people have at the time and how crucial it might be to the functioning of that Monarch - eg. the choosing of Shavri, a Healer, because Randale was ill and the choosing of Talia because of the situation with Elspeth the Brat. Anyway that's my 0.02 cents and a bit more.... -Helen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 12:45:00 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Yfandes Message-ID: <950919124500.21a295af-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> Hang on here. Yfandes had not *chosen* in the ten years since she was ready! So says Savil when Van first gets chosen. And somewhere else it's noted that a companion is at least [???] I can't remember the number, I think 5 or 10 years old, before they choose. Anyone remember where this is said? Maybe in the orientation class again? Anyway, that makes Yfandes at least 15 or 20. Just thought I'd throw that in. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:36:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright I surrender Message-ID: > Farsight isn;t important in a MO since since other people can infrom > the MO of the problem, but since the MO is advisor and basic body gard of > the M It would seem that empathy would be a good thing, if not esential for > the stability of the M. I agree, the MO's main concern is the basic health/stability/other of the Monarch. Including providing the M with an opinion (or the truth) that they can trust. The empathy would seem more of a requisite for the position than any other gift. In another example, Sharvi (sp) the MO during Randale's time, was a healer-herald. And empathy is a gift that most healers possess. Personally I think that the gifts of the MO are chosen according to the possible situation(s). > Just my opinion > > Ian > > < all of a sudden a whisper of sound occurs then the sound of a body > hitting a keyboard. "Good thing we had darts", one of the white coated > men said to the other as they dragged ian's body from the terminal.> Hmmmm... This sounds familliar... --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:12:11 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: Somehow my response to Ina got posted twice. I swear I only sent it once!! Sorry, folks! Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:50:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward B. Adams" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I Have A Question... Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, MR DAVID W BAHRKE wrote: > Ghost is the companion of Tashir(SP?), the heir to the throne of > Baires and as it turns out in the end Lineas as well. I beleive it > is in Magic's Price in LHM, although i could be mistaken. > > Zhai'Helleva, > David > > Go ahead Ned tell me I got the name wrong or something, > You got the name of the country wrong! No, you didn't. Let's see... Tashir is spelled correctly so that won't work I KNOW!!!! You left out a comma and you didn't capitalize the last "I" and you misspelled "believe" and, and, and,... I'm groping, aren't I? OK, I hereby announce that to the best of my knowledge, David is correct on all the facts And to everyone else, in case you didn't pick up on it, I'm joking. Sorry about the bandwidth, but it has been a long day. Zhai'helleva Ned (Now can we argue over the proper pronunciation of Zhai'helleva? Please, please?) > Ned Adams aka S. Baldrick Do not meddle in the affairs of cats sbaldric-+AT+-roanoke.infi.net For they are subtle and will piss on your (540) 890-0212 computer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:17:44 -0400 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: <9509192117.AA18087-+AT+-water.waterw.com> > >On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Hank Cannon wrote: > >> Has anyone else read the Diana Tregarde novels? >> If so, let's discuss them. >> > >I read Children of the Night, Burning Water, and Jinx High, but I've >never even seen any of the others. Is there a reason they're difficult >to find? Uh-huh. They've never been published. :) Jeanne Hedge jhedge-+AT+-water.waterw.com 75512.1214-+AT+-compuserve.com ================================================================ "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink..." --Samuel Taylor Coleridge, 'The Rime of the Ancient Mariner' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:22:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: <01HVGUY6AJKI8ZEIZC-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< On Ghost and Tashir: This is off-track from other conversations about Ghost, but I've been wondering....The whole episode in LHM about the fault and the Heartstone and Tashir/Ghost seemed to me pretty significant. I can't help but think that there will be ramifications seen in the Storms books (have gotten about half-way through Warning). But why didn't Vanyel mention it when Elspeth and co. were in Sorrows? Anyone care to speculate on _this_ thread?? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been wondering about that too. Remember how the mages had to tightly shield the Have Heartsone from the Mage storms? Well, think of what the storms would do to the unprotected Hearstone in Baires (or is it Lineas - it's been too long since I read MPromise) ? Or did that 'Stone have protections on it that I can't remember? How come almost everything I've written is a question? :) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Cecile. P.S. Starwolf is right, this group has taken off. I'm getting 40-60 messages almost every day! What fun! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah. I'm *very* glad that I just got a new account with three times the diskspace. My old one already overflowed with mail from here and another list I'm on. Mat T. -------------------------------- | Mat Timmerman | | accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu | | mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu | -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:38:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Aphrael wrote: > Cool! Here's a question that will start things off with a bang. > Did anyone get a little annoyed with Di somewhere in the middle of > _Burning Water_? She seemed to get just a little full of herself, > and for all of her protestations of tolerence, was peculiarly > *intolerant* of Mark's questions. As a Catholic myself, I'm > surprised that Mark took what he did as well as he did. You wouldn't > believe how young we can get hidebound. > > So, having said that and donned my flame-proof suit, what does > anybody think? Have you ever been an expert in something, trying to do something which could get you in a hell of a lot of trouble if you did it wrong, and some newbie keeps asking you *questions*! Questions you learned the answers to in the first three months on the job! Questions they might well find the answers to themselves if they'd just go *look it up*! I think that might have been the way Di felt. What I really wanted was to see Andre. I like reading about vampires. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:52:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Edward B. Adams" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Things Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Helen M. Wilfehrt wrote: > the MOC. Plus, have we actually seen a Herald-Mage who is a MOH?? The > only other MOH mentioned but not characterized is Elspeth the Peacemaker's > (Randale's Mother, I think she was the Peacemaker) MOH..... Herald-Mages, > in general, likely would not be needed not as MOH but rather they would > need to be available to be sent anywhere as different critical situations > required I agree with you on most of your post, but I do have a correction for this. In M1, Lancir is a Herald-Mage as shown on p.202, where Jaysen says, "And you'll get home how?.... You aren't up to Gating by yourself these days", which shows that not only is he a H-M, he is also an adept, albeit a weakened one. Also, As I recall, before Shavri, it was customary for the MOH to be a Herald-Mage, since I am sure that there is a comment that states in M2 that the Mage of the North in the Web is traditionally the MOH. Zhai'helleva Ned > > > Ned Adams aka S. Baldrick Do not meddle in the affairs of cats sbaldric-+AT+-roanoke.infi.net For they are subtle and will piss on your (540) 890-0212 computer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:58:45 -0400 From: KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: <950919195843_23797225-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 95-09-19 06:54:13 EDT, Hank writes: >Has anyone else read the Diana Tregarde novels? >If so, let's discuss them. > >Wind to thy wings. >Hank I really like those books too and they don't get talked about much. Start a thread and I definately will jump in! Kathy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 16:59:57 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Fire Rose Message-ID: <950919165957.21a28142-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> I managed to snag a copy of Fire Rose this weekend from the library. I enjoyed it tremendously. I will agree with other critics on one point, however, the ending was clearly rushed. It wasn't the type of breathless rush to the finish within the context of the story, that was acceptable, and necessary, it was the "I've got to finish this and get it in so I can satisfy these insane fans" type of quick finish. Which is unfortunate. Because until the quickie tie-up-all-the-loose-ends-in-under-five-pages ending, it was, IMNSHO, one of Misty's best books, particularly if you exclude Valdemar books (I'm less than objective on those ). The cover is slightly misleading, the inside cover blurb seems to have been written by someone who didn't read the book, but the story itself was great. If you can get it from the library (or have mucho buckaroonies to throw around) check this out. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:41:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > I think not. First, remember when Vanyel made the web, all the > Companions withdrew. They had been apart before, and so they would > remain. > > Also, to tie the web to someone who can be killed, wouldn't that be a > bit careless? Another thing; other mages could sense the vrondi, > could they too have become a part of the web, if they tried? Or what > about others with Mind-Powers? I sincerely don't think that someone could just barge into the Web. Two reasons. First, the link was made through the Companions. Van said something to the effect of, "the Companions are what made this whole link possible." Second, the power source, which might have been a way into the Web, is the node under Haven, which has to be keyed to individuals. One would hope that any mages keyed to the node had previously been evaluated for megalomaniac tendencies or anything else that would have been likely to make them try to take over the Web from there. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 147 *********************************