MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 148 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: LHM(SPOILER) by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 2) Re: Lots of things. by Adrienne York 3) RE: I'm back! by GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU 4) Re: Things by "Sarah Stock" 5) MOH - Jisa, the twins; Vanyel being Chosen by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 6) Re: Question that has been bugging me. by Adrienne York 7) Re: Lots of things. by Adrienne York 8) Re: Lots of things. by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 9) Re:Talia's gift thread by Julie Vaux 10) Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Norma Gjuka) 11) RE: I'm back! by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Norma Gjuka) 12) Re: Question that has been bugging me. by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Norma Gjuka) 13) RE: LHM(SPOILER) by "Scarlett E. Blizzard" 14) Re: Alright I surrender by Ian MacDonald 15) Re: Alright I surrender by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 16) Re: MOH - Jisa, the twins; Vanyel being Chosen by Ian MacDonald 17) ADMIN: many and various by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 18) Re: In defence of Elspeth by Joanna Hilken 19) Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... by Ina Faye-Lund 20) Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... by Ina Faye-Lund 21) Re: LHM(SPOILER) by Ina Faye-Lund 22) Re: I'm back! by Ina Faye-Lund 23) Re: MOH - Jisa, the twins; Vanyel being Chosen by "Jennifer S. Broekman" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 11:42:12 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509200142.AA18374-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > > And as for why Van wasn't Chosen upon arrival at the Collegium, I > > think has more to do with his dependent-personality rather than lack > > of active gifts or arrogance or other faults. > > Or maybe that the Companions weren't ready for him? I think perhaps > he had to learn about love from another human, not a Companion. Also, > I don't know if it would have been possible to mistrust a Companion, > but the way Vanyel was when he came, would he have trusted a Companion > at that point? > And, even if he had trusted her, would he _ever_ have been able to > trust another human if he first gave his love to Yfandes? Yes! The best reason I've read yet. If Van bonded with Yfandes on arrival, it might have been a *long* time before he could let his mask / walls of ice down with another human, if ever. He'd have had a partial solution to his desperate loneliness and may not have had the impetus to reach out to another human. It wasn't a fault of Van's making him ineligable necessarily, but rather that being Chosen at that stage could have been very bad for his development. Sorry, I know I'm more or less restating you Ina, but it's such a good point. :) Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com "I never thought there could be anything worse than being all alone in the night." "But there is. Being all alone in a crowd." --Sheridan and Delenn, B5 TAtHL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 21:55:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: I too, am using the delete function with a vengeance. On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > > Like Starwolf, I am snipping a lot of stuff here. > > On Tue, 19 Sep 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: > > > > >I think Valdemar is probably the most > > >sophisticated country in this recognizing the various gods & goddesses as > > >ASPECTS of the same single pair, as well as several astute individuals. > > > > I disagree. Valdemar does not consider the various gods/godesses as > > aspects. The rule is that "there is no one true way". As in, each > > religion is to be allowed and unmolested as long as it doesn't try > > to interfere with other religions or people's rights. I don't recall > > anywhere the idea that Valdemarans believe all gods/godesses to be simply > > aspects. If you know of such a quote, please list here! I'd be > > very interested. Let's face it, I've missed important "clues" before > > > > Since I'm at work, I don't have an exact quote, but I think its in > Arrow's Fall, when Talia and Kris are going on her training circuit. > He's telling her something about the people up there, and says to the > effect that "They worship the Lady as Astera and the (Lord?) as Kernos" > which implied to me that - at least in Valdemar - there is a central > God/Goddess pair called by different names by Valdemarans. Valdemar I have to give a different interpretation from Cecile, agreeing with ?StarWolf?. I think that reference to the Lady as Astera and the Lord as Kernos simply recognizes that quite a few of the Valdemaran religions are similar in structure, which one would hope they had realized by now if they're studying religions! However, I know ?Mero? the cook, is a worshipper of the One, Kero and the Prince Consort have both introduced the Rethwellan state religion with its triple Goddess, although I don't know how pious they are, and the priests of Vkandis are practically monotheistic, having forgotten Kalanel almost completely. I really don't think they believe the only structure of beliefs is the Sacred Couple. > seems to have grown by immigration to a certain extent and perhaps > developed this enveloping philosophy to create harmony among disparate > but similar beliefs. I agree that they (at least in Haven, among the > Council and Heralds, Healers and Bards) believe "there is no one true > way"; partly for expediency - that is, Heralds, Healers, and Bards have > to be accepted wherever they go, be trusted to be impartial and not let > personal beliefs cloud their judgment, or that of the people they are > serving. I realize that this makes it sound cold and calculated, rather > than true belief, but perhaps that's how it started. Sort of like our > "separation of Church and State" in its original spirit - to prevent > persecution of minority beliefs or the rise of a theocratic state, etc. Given what we know of Baron Valdemar's personality, that's probably true. > > > On Ghost and Tashir: > > This is off-track from other conversations about Ghost, but I've been > wondering....The whole episode in LHM about the fault and the Heartstone > and Tashir/Ghost seemed to me pretty significant. I can't help but think > that there will be ramifications seen in the Storms books (have gotten > about half-way through Warning). But why didn't Vanyel mention it when > Elspeth and co. were in Sorrows? > Anyone care to speculate on _this_ thread?? Ooooooh, scary thoughts, scary thoughts!!!! I wonder how far along that fault line's gotten in mending? I realize six hundred years have gone by, but didn't Van say something about centuries to heal? As for why Van didn't mention it, he's still basically a human being. He forgot. OR he didn't think of it himself. OR nothing is going to happen because nothing happened when the first mage-storms went through. OR Misty forgot. Well, that's enough from me. TTFN, ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:14:57 -0400 (EDT) From: GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: I'm back! Message-ID: <950919231457.2020f2bd-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU> > Hi, everybody, this is Liz again. I have a theory on why Vanyel's Bardic gift > was never mentioned after Magic's Pawn. Maybe Moonsong, or whatever his name > was closed it off to keep vanyel from being overloaded while he was healing > him and didn't open it up again because he would have been too tempted > to forget magic and become a Bard. Sounds kind of sneaky and manipulative > for a Hawkbrother, though. No, it is not Liz again. Now it is Jennie. Well, I agree that would be a little sneakey for a Hawkbrother. Vanyel's gift wasn't suppressed though! When he went back to where Tashir was from, the name is missing from my memory and I don't have my book, he went as a bard. There was an old man there that befriended him and told him that he had talent. So maybe he still had the Bardic Gift, but felt that he would have a better impact on the world as a Herald. Just my own little theory. :) Jennie. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:20:42 +1200 From: "Sarah Stock" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Things Message-ID: <199509200338.PAA26690-+AT+-ftp.paradigm.co.nz> sbaldric-+AT+-roanoke.infi.net wrote: > I agree with you on most of your post, but I do have a correction for > this. In M1, Lancir is a Herald-Mage as shown on p.202, where Jaysen > says, "And you'll get home how?.... You aren't up to Gating by yourself > these days", which shows that not only is he a H-M, he is also an adept, > albeit a weakened one. Also, As I recall, before Shavri, it was customary > for the MOH to be a Herald-Mage, since I am sure that there is a comment > that states in M2 that the Mage of the North in the Web is traditionally > the MOH. > Yes, I remember that reference as well. Shavri couldn't be one of the Guardians of the Web because she didn't have the Mage-Gift and her other gifts wouldn't subsitute. I guess when having Herald-Mages around is no big deal, then you would expect the MOH to be one. They are charged with protecting the Monarch after all, and a Herald-Mage has more to fight with. Up until the time Vanyel called the vrondi, the Monarch was definitely at risk from magic attack. As for Elspeth making a good MOH, no way. She would have to risk her life often for her country. Besides, she's not that much younger than Talia. With almost all the countries around Valdamar (sp?) either at war (or a state of uneasiness) or at peace, I can't see Talia being in too much danger(i.e. not too many more diplomatic death missions). So, when she dies, Elspeth will probably be too old to change career path. Just my .5 NZ cents (which is about .2 cents US) Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 10:43:56 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: MOH - Jisa, the twins; Vanyel being Chosen Message-ID: <199509200343.AA201238580-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> >Point taken. But I have a question: how did the Heralds (at least those >in the Circle) know that Jisa would be Chosen AND as MOH? For that >matter, given all the speculation about Elspeth's Choosing, how do they >know a) that the twins will be Chosen AND b) that one will be Monarch and >one MOH?? It was based upon, largely, Vanyel's discussions and Consultations with Yfandes. At one point, it was mentioned that Jisa had been very upset when she reached the age those normally chosen trainees but still hadn't been Chosen. Vanyel talked with Yfandes; Vanyel found out that she hadn't been Chosen because her Companion would be Shavri's Companion upon Shavri's death. Jisa was told this, I believe This was brought up as a recollection by Vanyel. I thought she even started going through the classes at the Collegium based upon this speculation. As to Selenay's twins, in WOF (Ch. 10, paperback p.221), Elspeth in her abdication speech says " I have been reliably informed by the Companions that both will be Chosen, and thus both are equally suited to the position of Heir to the Throne of Valdemar - as I am not.". Selenay later delares in the Council meeting (p.229) "I am naming Kris and Lyra joint Heir-presumptives......." As to one being MOH, I can't recall exactly where it came up, but I believe it was in passing. [snip] >> > And as for why Van wasn't Chosen upon arrival at the Collegium, I >> > think has more to do with his dependent-personality rather than lack >> > of active gifts or arrogance or other faults. >> >> Or maybe that the Companions weren't ready for him? I think perhaps >> he had to learn about love from another human, not a Companion. Also, >> I don't know if it would have been possible to mistrust a Companion, >> but the way Vanyel was when he came, would he have trusted a Companion >> at that point? >> And, even if he had trusted her, would he _ever_ have been able to >> trust another human if he first gave his love to Yfandes? > >That could be a big part of it too. Vanyel NEEDED love and approval SO >MUCH, maybe it was too much for the Companions, that he might become >dependent on whoever Chose him and THAT would not have been "right" either. > >Thank you, Ina! > >Cecile I still don't think Vanyel would have ever been Chosen even if Tylendel hadn't died. Yes, he grew somewhat upon entering the relationship with Tyldendel, but he still didn't exhibit that one main quality of Heralds - compassion for those whom he doesn't know, remember this was one reason he didn't want to inherit his Father's keep - he really disliked dealing with those beholdened to his father. His lack of Gifts would have still been the most preventing reason. Yfandes Chose him because he NEEDED her - his Gifts were out of control - she might have seen that he had the potential of developing the Compassion needed in a Herald, which I concede was largely because of Tylendel. His Gifts were also out of control - as they mentioned, even severely drugged Vanyel had the Collegium in tears with his mourning of Tylendel not to mention that he had the ability to level Haven. It wasn't until he was with the Tayledras and began to Heal somewhat and then helped those people with the Cold-Drake did he begin to learn about showing compassion to others. Helen h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 00:08:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Question that has been bugging me. Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Catherine Osborne wrote: > On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Kristin A. Ruhle wrote: > > > Re-read LHM....Ghost appears in Magic's Promise; he Chooses Tashir. We > > never learn his "real" name if he has one. Everybody seems content to > > His real name is Lesh'ya, Shin'a'in for "spirit". This is only mentioned > once in LHM, and I have no clue where, since my books are on loan. I don't think so. The Shin'a'in call all the Companions Lesh'ya. And Ghost was never near a Shin'a'in. The closest was that awful horse. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 00:14:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 1995 RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com wrote: > From: Catherine Osborne > >On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Kristin A. Ruhle wrote: > >> Re-read LHM....Ghost appears in Magic's Promise; he Chooses Tashir. We > >> never learn his "real" name if he has one. Everybody seems content to > > >His real name is Lesh'ya, Shin'a'in for "spirit". This is only mentioned > >once in LHM, and I have no clue where, since my books are on loan. > > > Nope, I don't think so. Lesh'ya simply means Ghost in this case. Sometimes > one is used to refer to this Companion, sometimes the other. As far as we > know, either Ghost gave his name to Tashir, or Tashir (or Vanyel) named him > that, sort of a nickname. I doubt that Ghost could have given his name to > Tashir, neither was very coherent early in the bonding. Remember that not > all Companions give their name to their Heralds. Some let the Herald choose > a name (again according to the lecture in Talia's oh-so-informative > Orientation class). We had some speculation last year that if Heralds can > come back as Companions, which is sort of an accepted fact around here, and > if they are somewhat close to their own time-period, or simply too well-known > in the history of Valdemar, then they may let their Herald choose a name > purely for the purpose of hiding their identity. In addition, if a Herald > doesn't have mind-speaking, perhaps they have to name their Companion, since > they wouldn't know their name? Hmmm. If StarWolf is right, I wonder if Ghost might be Lancir? He'd died remember, he was a MindHealer, and it was too soon for people not to wonder. Just a thought. Adrienne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 14:46:54 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: <9509200446.AA20260-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Mat T wrote: >> From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >> On Ghost and Tashir: >> >> This is off-track from other conversations about Ghost, but I've been >> wondering....The whole episode in LHM about the fault and the Heartstone >> and Tashir/Ghost seemed to me pretty significant. I can't help but think >> that there will be ramifications seen in the Storms books (have gotten >> about half-way through Warning). But why didn't Vanyel mention it when >> Elspeth and co. were in Sorrows? >> Anyone care to speculate on _this_ thread?? >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > I've been wondering about that too. Remember how the mages had to tightly > shield the Have Heartsone from the Mage storms? Well, think of what the > storms would do to the unprotected Hearstone in Baires (or is it Lineas - > it's been too long since I read MPromise) ? Or did that 'Stone have > protections on it that I can't remember? How come almost everything I've > written is a question? :) Maybe the heartstone has served it's purpose by now and the fault is stable / been cured. The K'Treva adepts may have moved the heartstone onwards.. Or perhaps whichever Tayledras clan was repsponsible for its creation. (Yes, I know Hawk-brothers would be unusual in Lineas/Baires, but in a more-or-less magic-less place I think Tayledras Adepts could manage not to be noticed). :) After all, one of the 5 heartstone-creating Tayledras clans left the heartstone there in the first place. It's unlikely that they'd just forget about it. The alternative is that it's close enough to Vanyel for him to have done something about it, either shielding it, or moving the node to Sorrows and shielding it. I don't think even the greatest mortal adept could move a heartstone (not from scratch) by himself if he was any distance from it, but Van has certain advantages in that regard as well as access to extra power. Or as Cecilia suggests, maybe it's just shielded enough already. I kinda doubt this one - the heartstone at Haven was mega-shielded (tm) too as it was in the herald-mage workroom, covered in [albeit old] protections put up by countless herald-mages.. I find it a little incredulous that Vanyel might have forgotten about the heartstone in Lineas completely - even if it had slipped his mind, all the talk about heartstones would surely have brought it back. My money's on the Tayledras or Vanyel taking care of it. Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com "To give light to them that sit in darkness." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:46:29 +1000 (EST) From: Julie Vaux To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Talia's gift thread Message-ID: <199509200546.PAA31558-+AT+-metz.une.edu.au> Its been a while since I've posted anything! Some thoughts on Talia's gifts .I get the impression Talia's primary gift is Mind(soul)Healing combined with Empathy. She also has a high I>Q> verbal aptitude that makes her a good therapist/diplomat/counsellor. I think the reason most Heralds presume the Monarch's Own gift is a form of empathy is that it would be beneficial for the Monarch's Own Herald to have it know their empathy is that strong. Talia has been accused of manipulating people and Sharvi's daughter by Vanyel had the gift so strongly that Van commented she would probably be able to control entire crowds or mobs even. The combination of Mindhealing/Empathy also allows Talia to boost other Healers - perhaps by making it easier for them to reach Healers' Trance state or blocking attempts by semi-conscious or delirious patients , particularly Heralds with Mind Gifts (and suicidal tendencies) to stop healers from bonding with them? On a different subject does anyone know if there are any plans to reprint the Tregarde books? Julie Vaux - Majissa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:56:41 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Norma Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: <9509200551.AA15795-+AT+-baker> >Has anyone else read the Diana Tregarde novels? >If so, let's discuss them. > >Wind to thy wings. >Hank hello hank. yes, i've read the diana tregard novels and greatly enjoyed them. would also like to talk about them. i must admit that i like jinx high least of the three, not sure why. Probibly for the same reason i don't like misty's newer books as much as her older ones. my impression has been that as she gets more popular and her output goes up, the quality goes down. don't get me wrong, i'm still a big fan and i still buy in hardback when i can (at least for the "major" novels), but i think she's lost her place as my favorite author to charles de lint. oh well. as for diana, well i like the concept for the books and the charecter. i must admit being the typical sucker for andre and children of the night is my favorite of the three. (damn sexy!) i like the variety of mythology/occult and find the ideas facinating. (has anyone else seen the japanamation series vampire princess miya? i recomend it highly. it also combines vampires and occult investigation.) but i'd hate to be andre here. all the libraries have lots of windows, no subways, and movie theatres are closed most of the day. where would he hide? anyone want to discuss the nature of misty's vampires? wonder what would happen if diana knew there were elves? anyone want to bet she will? now there is an intrest of mine, the eric banyon series. anyone else hear the tempest music that goes with serrated edge? any opinions? colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:32:11 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Norma Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: I'm back! Message-ID: <9509200626.AA16298-+AT+-baker> jennie said- Well, I agree that would be a >little sneakey for a Hawkbrother. Vanyel's gift wasn't suppressed though! >When he went back to where Tashir was from, the name is missing from my >memory and I don't have my book, he went as a bard. There was an old man there >that befriended him and told him that he had talent. So maybe he still had the >Bardic Gift, but felt that he would have a better impact on the world as a >Herald. Just my own little theory. :) >Jennie. when vanyel went undercover, he went as a minstrel. he told medren that a bard would be too flashy and attract too much attention, that's why he borrowed medren's old lute instead of taking his own. as for the old man, i'm not sure if he was recognising vanyel's bardic gift or just recognising that vanyel was a better than average musician (after all, even without the bardic gift he was good enough that, had he not been withren's heir, he would have been accepted into bardic.) just me being nit picky. good point though. i assume that vanyel would have to have the bardic gift in order to consider pretending to be a bard, but then again... perhaps it was too painfull for him to develop more fully. not to mention time and the fact that he had more vital things to learn. now, how about those elves?! colette (nimune oceanwalker) gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:42:47 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Norma Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Question that has been bugging me. Message-ID: <9509200637.AA16434-+AT+-baker> > >> His real name is Lesh'ya, Shin'a'in for "spirit". This is only mentioned >> once in LHM, and I have no clue where, since my books are on loan. > >I don't think so. The Shin'a'in call all the Companions Lesh'ya. And >Ghost was never near a Shin'a'in. The closest was that awful horse. > many shin'a'in and tay'ledras words are similar- is it possible that moondance or starwind could have called him that? or, conversely, that perhaps ghost might be a reincarnated shin'a'in? i suppose that last isn't too likely considering the protectiveness of their goddess and shin'a'in loyalty to her. bye again- colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 8:39:57 CDT (0639Z) From: "Scarlett E. Blizzard" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509200646.AA15443-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > On Thu, 14 Sep 1995 18:49:16 +0100, Eugene said: > > > > True, but does Savil not state that she is dissapointed that none of > > Treesa and Withen's children share her gifts. Vanyel remembers her > > saying this after she tests him for Gifts and he comes up with > > "potential only". Surely Savil would have said something at this > > point like "well if he gets chosen he'll develop gifts", or something > > similiar, if this were possible. >snip>>snip>> I always got the feeling that at the time of the testing, Savil was seeing the Vanyelthat was wearing a *mask*, and as I recall she wasn't too impressed with him as a person. And since her brother Withren (sp?) frowned upon her being a Herald, maybe she didn't want to stir up any trouble and decided not to say anything, since she had absolutely no control over him getting *chosen* any way. Seeya!! *************************************************************************** * Scarlett (blizzard-+AT+-wurbpmo.wuerzburg.army.mil * * " An old crest on a new wave " * * If I can be serial for a nanosecond, enough of the handshaking, * *let's jack in and process this system! -Enzio (reboot cartoon charecter) * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:11:54 +0100 (BST) From: Ian MacDonald To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright I surrender Message-ID: > > < all of a sudden a whisper of sound occurs then the sound of a body > > hitting a keyboard. "Good thing we had darts", one of the white coated > > men said to the other as they dragged ian's body from the terminal.> > > Hmmmm... This sounds familliar... > > --Gyrfalcon > What is it "copying is the greatest form of flatery"? I did ask *GRIN* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 08:24:52 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Alright I surrender Message-ID: <9509200824.AA26800-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > Farsight isn;t important in a MO since since other people can infrom the MO > of the problem, but since the MO is advisor and basic body gard of the M > It would seem that empathy would be a good thing, if not esential for > the stability of the M. Er.. that was Foresight, not Farsight :-), as in "Agreeing to that bit of the treaty wouldn't be a good idea", or "don't send them there" - the idea being that that would be very handy to know *before* issuing the orders - but I'll certainly agree that empathy is a very good thing to have, and likely to be more applicable more of the time :-). On the other hand, given 's performance with Selenay - or the little we hear about it - I'm still not convinced he had empathy in any useful ammount - what do the rest of you think? -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:35:28 +0100 From: Ian MacDonald To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk, ism-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk Subject: Re: MOH - Jisa, the twins; Vanyel being Chosen Message-ID: <20131.199509200935-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk> Don't know about any else but How did I miss all the details that people are flinging about about Selenays twins!! Arrggg I will have to read them two or 3 times, I still haven't noticed the the savyil err savil bit by Yfades. Even after some one telling me exactly where I guess I just get to caught up in the storries to notice these sort of things! ian < all of a sudden a whisper of sound occurs then the sound of a body hitting a keyboard. "Good thing we had darts", one of the white coated men said to the other as they dragged ian's body from the terminal.> < ism-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 10:53:53 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey Subject: ADMIN: many and various Message-ID: <9509200953.AA02259-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> 1) Some of you are reporting problems with receiving multiple copies of list messages. I've been aware of this for some while with regard to folks in Australia, but now I've had a report from someone in the US as well. My best guess at the moment, based on the headers I've seen, is that it is a problem at our outbound mail gateway site, rather than here, which I've reported to them. If you'd like to report more instances of this problem (please do!), could you please send me the full headers of the messages concerned -- not the whole messages, please! Thanks. 2) AOL folk: your mail system appears to be doing really weird things at the moment. If you suddenly stop receiving email, you may wish to check you're still on the list (try subscribing, and if it rejects it you're still here). 3) Absence: I'll be away from my office from pm 29th September until am 8th October. I will be skimming mail during that time, but don't expect problems to be dealt with unless they're really urgent. This absence is an exception to the usual rule of "mail me at home if you don't get a reply from here"; I'm going on holiday, but will be taking Yfandes (my laptop; paired with the main server, Vanyel) with me. Home mail won't be checked at all during that time, whereas mail sent here will (assuming Compuserve manage not to screw up my account again) 4) Thank you to all those people who are trimming stuff when replying to messages. :) Cheers Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:02:02 +0100 (BST) From: Joanna Hilken To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: In defence of Elspeth Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > But others too could advice the monarch. As an elder sister, I think > she could do that, and the monarch would pay it the attention it > deserved. Being both elder sister and MO would be a "proof" that > Elspeth was right. She did mistakes, and I think that as "only" elder > sister, she could advice her younger sister or brother. But he or she > would also have another councellor, the MO. So, he or she could judge > those against eachother, and hopefully find the right decision. Yeah, OK. I think you're right, specially about the elder sister bit. A triple influence (MO, elder sister and ex-heir) might be a bit much, even if she had nothing forceful about her personality whatsoever. Um. I suppose I wasn't thinking when I posted. And I suppose she isn't really good MO material . I like her, and I didn't want to think she might not be best at *everything*. Ooops. Back to kindergarten for me. . And now back to work before anyone notices me skiving. What a day! Joanna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:34:31 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... Message-ID: <199509201034.14048.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> [Jennifer S. Broekman] > Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > 10 years isn't enough to give any meaningful worldly experience, so > why would the deity drop a grove-born 10 years early? Since all born > Companions are reicarnated Heralds, the argument of her having to bear > those two foals doesn't hold any water, since any Companion mare > could've done the same. Where do you get that from? I mean, about all born Companions are reincarnated Heralds? Can't remember to have found anything about that. > The Grove-born Companions are *born* *adult*. She wouldn't need 10 > years to grow up if she was Grove-born. (Besides which, I got the > feeling that Yfandes was at least 14 when she Chose Vanyel, since no > one would've expected her to choose earlier than 8-10...) I was not thinking of _adult_ in the physical sense. But Yfandes _do_ seem more mature than both Gwena and Gala. Yfandes must have been at least 20, since the Companions don't Choose until they are at least 10, and Yfandes had been able to Choose for at least 10 years. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:40:20 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... Message-ID: <199509201040.14290.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> [Jennifer Broekman] > Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > Ghost wasn't Grove-born. IMO, Companion talents pop up the same way > that Heralds' Gifts pop up, ie. the talent will be needed, but that > doesn't mean that an individual is specially crafted and predestined > by being given that talent. I never said that Ghost was Grove-Born. And I agree that the talents of the Companions pop up in the same way as in the Heralds. So, it was known to _someone_ that some child would need a Companion with Mind-Healing abilities, and so, one was born. > What greater good? His bond with Stefen? That, after all, is the > analogy to what Moondance was talking about... Valdemar survived. Remember the words? "If you don't, they will come to me sooner, and in greater number, and the Valdemar you know will be no more..." I can't remember the exact words, but that was the essence of it. > The fact that Death is pictured as a Lover doesn't mean that the > deities have detailed plans for who dies when in order to advance > their own master plan, like a chess player might sacrifice a pawn for > board position... What I mean is, that perhaps whatever deity watches over Valdemar doesn't see Death as the evil some tend to see it as. Death is an end to something, and also a new beginning. So, I cannot see _why_ the deity shouldn't be able to let a Herald die if Valdemar survives. After all, remember how Lackey describes Death. To Kris, it meant happiness, to Vanyel, it meant being able to defend Valdemar in another way, to Stefen, it meant reunion with Vanyel, and remember Idra? She was at peace with herself when the Sunhawks saw her again, after her death. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 12:55:40 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509201055.14976.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> [Kerry Mealing] > Sorry, I know I'm more or less restating you Ina, but it's such a good > point. :) Don't worry, I don't mind it when people agree with me. :P -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:01:11 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I'm back! Message-ID: <199509201101.15134.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Tue, 19 Sep 1995 18:13:48 +0100, Liz Peel said: > Hi, everybody, this is Liz again. I have a theory on why Vanyel's > Bardic gift was never mentioned after Magic's Pawn. Maybe Moonsong, > or whatever his name was closed it off to keep vanyel from being > overloaded while he was healing him and didn't open it up again > because he would have been too tempted to forget magic and become a > Bard. I don't agree. The Hawkbrothers wouldn't try to manipulate him in that way, I just cannot make myself believe it. And, I think, had there been a chance that he would make that choice, he wouldn't have made a good Herald. > Maybe the Bardic Gift was dormant in his family and so diluted that > it wasn't recognized even in the people who had it active and it > just closed off by itself since he was too busy to train it. It had to be. Remember, Medren got the Bardic Gift, and he probably got it from Vanyel's brother. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 08:48:18 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MOH - Jisa, the twins; Vanyel being Chosen Message-ID: <199509201248.IAA00865-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Helen M. Wilfehrt wrote: >I still don't think Vanyel would have ever been Chosen even if Tylendel >hadn't died. Yes, he grew somewhat upon entering the relationship with >Tyldendel, but he still didn't exhibit that one main quality of Heralds - >compassion for those whom he doesn't know, remember this was one reason he >didn't want to inherit his Father's keep - he really disliked dealing with >those beholdened to his father. His lack of Gifts would have still been the >most preventing reason. Yfandes Chose him because he NEEDED her - his Gifts IMO, he exhibited the beginnings of at least one Gift before the Gate-energy was fed back through him: ForeSight. So, given a few years and the Companion-bond, he could have easily been Chosen wrt Gifts. (Remember that some Heralds don't have more than the barest touch of a Gift, according to Talia's orientation class.) As for compassion, I think that going out on circuit with Tylendel would have easily taught Van the requisite compassion, since it only took being out of pain himself and *one* exposure to the fact that Tylendel was right about there being things that only Heralds can do that need to be done for regular people to be able to live regular lives. Part of his reluctance to inherit was also the recognition that, point blank, his brother was better suited than he was, *and* the knowledge that he'd be just as alone as keep lord as he was as lonely kid. As even an ordinary Herald, he would have had the companionship of his Companion, and the companionship of the Circle, and Tylendel, if he hadn't died. With his biggest fear allayed, why shouldn't he have grown up into responsibility without having to be shredded in tiny pieces first? -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 148 *********************************