MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 150 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 2) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) 3) Another Companion Thought by Mat Timmerman 4) Re: Inherited gifts (spoiler for Winds books) by "Aphrael" 5) Re: Inherited gifts (spoiler for Winds books) by "Angela M." 6) Re: Elspeth and manipulation by Fred Ives 7) re: Grove-Born tangent by Hollie Virgin 8) Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by Hank Cannon 9) Re: Vanyel by Anise K Strong 10) Re: LHM(SPOILER) by Anise K Strong 11) re: Grove-Born tangent by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 12) Re: Lots of things. by GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU 13) Re: LHM(SPOILER) by "Sarah Stock" 14) SERRAted Edge series... by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 15) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 16) RE: Elspeth and manipulation by GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU 17) RE: LHM(SPOILER) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 18) Re: Gods, Goddesses, etc. (WAS Re: Lots of things.) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 19) Re: Inherited gifts (spoiler for Winds books) by EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com 20) Re: MOH - Jisa, the twins; Vanyel being Chosen by diamond-+AT+-wizvax.net (Jill Wilber) 21) Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com 22) Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... by EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com 23) Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 24) Re: Vanyel by Jennifer 25) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by Ina Faye-Lund 26) RE: I'm back! by Rosario Holsen-Baker 27) Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:14:51 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Helen M. Wilfehrt wrote: > [snip] > > My understanding of the Web as formed under Vanyel was that the Vrondi were > part of the Web in a manner - in part the Web was how the Vrondi understood > who were Heralds and who weren't. > Hmmmm. I'll have to look that up. I thought the Web-restructuring and the Vrondi-spell were two separate things. But my memory isn't what it used to be!!! cecile (who is feeling very humble at the moment) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 16:04:11 -0400 From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: <199509202004.QAA06100-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> > I don't think that the vrondi >have anything to do with the Web; they just "watch" for non-Herald >mages/magic. > >Cecile On this subject, I have a question -- shortly after linking the Vrondi into the Web, Vanyel goes home for some R&R. While there, he tried casting a spell (shortly before being attacked by the guy who later turned out to have the leech blade). Anyway, in the process of casting this spell, he is startled by a Vrondi "tapping him on the shoulder." This is the only reference to this in any of the books, and Vanyel was startled that it happened. But, according to my understanding of how the Web Mk II was established, the Vrondi should immediately have realized that Van was a Herald and not tapped him. What's the deal? Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:26:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Another Companion Thought Message-ID: <01HVIBIGLNCI8ZEQHC-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> With all the talk about Herald/Companion reincarnation, I began to wonder about something. When a Herald or Companion is reincarnated, what happens to their previous bond? I mean, we've seen that it can last after death with Van & Yfandes. Maybe the two are always reborn around the same time, and that's what causes the bonds between the Companions? Thoughts on the matter, anyone, Mat T. -------------------------------- | Mat Timmerman | | accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu | | mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu | -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:34:41 EST From: "Aphrael" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Inherited gifts (spoiler for Winds books) Message-ID: >One major example: Falconsbane. His neat little trick was keyed to the >use of a gift (firestarting?) in his descendants. Actually, his descendants needed to have the mage-gift, and then attempt the fire-starting spell.... >I *think* there may be some mention somewhere of people inheriting gifts >from their parents, but I can't come up with an obvious example :-). How about when Van mentions visiting his various children, checking to see if they'd inherited any of his gifts? I believe Jisa had empathy and mage-gift-potential, his child with Lissa's retired guards was completely null, and of the half-Hawkbrother twins, the boy (sorry, forget his name) had all the gifts, while the girl had none. I think. I really hope I remembered everything OK. :) Later all-- Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Tell me why then is the hand slow, and the dog bites. Well I don't know. But the sky will fall and heads will roll, and it's all that we can do to wait for the healing, for to carry on, for to stand when all is said and done in the shadow of the rising sun, longing, waiting for the healing... from _Wait for the Healing_, Amy Grant ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:34:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Angela M." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Inherited gifts (spoiler for Winds books) Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Jerry Cullingford wrote: > One major example: Falconsbane. His neat little trick was keyed to the > use of a gift (firestarting?) in his descendants. Actually, Falconsbanes trick wasn't based on the gift of firestarting, it was based on the mage gift. It was just keyed to the very simple first spell of firestarting :) *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Angela M. Murray |"Darkness has a hunger that's Nazareth College of Rochester, NY |insatiable, and lightness has a call Art Education * (ammurray-+AT+-orion.naz.edu)|that's hard to hear..." -I. Girls *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ___ ___ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:41:09 -0700 From: Fred Ives To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elspeth and manipulation Message-ID: <199509202241.PAA13233-+AT+-atlas.earthlink.net> At 05:11 PM 9/20/95 +0100, you wrote: > > I've noticed that Elspeth has an almost violent reaction to being >manipulated. Do any of you think that she may be extra sensitive to >manipulative forces because of her childhood experiences, when she was >being influenced by Hulda to act horribly (and therefore almost lost the >chance at being chosen)? > > ooo..Sorry, bit of a run-on sentence there, eh? > > >Vivian Choh bi189-+AT+-torfree.net v.choh-+AT+-utoronto.ca > >"I am all that I claim to be. I simply have not claimed all that I am." > - M. Lackey, "Oathbreakers" > You know I think you've hit the nail on the head. I didn't think about it at the time I enjoy reading Misty's books for enjoyment never tried to annalize them. But after reading all these posts about reincarnated heralds etc. I have been rereading them and I think that you are correct about Elspeth Once bitten twice shy as they say. Jezzerey smurf-+AT+-earthlink.net What's life without a little magic! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:43:53 -0400 From: Hollie Virgin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Grove-Born tangent Message-ID: <199509202243.SAA04873-+AT+-service1.uky.edu> >From: Elise M Packee >okay, going to stick my nose in on this. _Arrows Fall_ Dirk and Elspeth >are having a conversation about Companions and gifts on the way to the >border of Hardorn. > > I seem to recall that there was a brief tangent on Grove-Born >companions. Also, that tangent I believe mentioned Yfandes somehow. >My books are in storage in Oregon, And I am in Montana. So if someone >could look up that passage, maybe that will help in the discussion >whether grove-born or not... > I noticed this when I was rereading the Arrows series too..._Arrow's Fall,_ p. 213 "Don't they _ever_ interfere?" she (Elspeth) asked, finally. "Not in living memory. In some of the old chronicles, though...Some Companions, very rarely, have intervened. But only when the situation was hopeless, and only when there was no other way out of it except by their aid. They were always Grove-born, though..." (Dirk) Certainly _sounds_ like he's referring to Yfandes. But I agree that she's not Grove-born, mostly because Van sees her as a woman. Question - does Gwena glow brightly to Elspeth's MageSight, like she did to...ah...I forget what mage it was...Quenten, maybe? And if not, does she mask herself, or does Elspeth just not see it, because she's not expecting it? Hollie Virgin ehvirg00-+AT+-pop.uky.edu "She will remember your heart when men are fairytales in books written by rabbits." -The Last Unicorn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:10:19 -0600 (CST) From: Hank Cannon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: Is there a way for the fans of the Diana Tregarde books to get a hold of the other manuscripts. I really like those novels,and I would like to continue reading about Di's trevails. Wind to Thy Wings Hank Cannon aka Phoenixfire Nscan2659-+AT+-alpha.nsula.edu May your life be interesting. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:12:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Anise K Strong To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel Message-ID: esOn Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Liz Peel wrote: > If that big mess with Tylendel hadn't happened, Van's gifts would > probably have been opened anyway. Didn't they open a little before he > died, when 'lendel summoned the demons or whatever? here's my > scenario- Vanyel is in Haven, waiting for 'Lendel to come back from > the border or something, 'Lendel gets in big trouble and accidentally > draws on Vanyel's Mage-Gift. BOOM!!!! Vanyel's channels get blasted > open and he gets chosen. > > -Liz > That implies that Vanyel wouldn't have been chosen if he didn't develop Mage-Gift, which seems odd, given that even then a large majority of the Heralds weren't Mages. I thought he was chosen more as an effort to save and in some way partially comfort him. -Anise ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:18:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Anise K Strong To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: How can the MOC choose someone who is "already a Herald, or just about to receive his whites" as mentioned in previous messages? Would the previous bond between that Herald and his/her Companion be broken? Seems a rather complicated situation. And in that case, how come Jisa had to sit around waiting to be chosen until Shavri died? Theoretically, she could have had a "temporary" Companion and completed her Herald training early. -Anise ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:53:29 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: re: Grove-Born tangent Message-ID: <199509202353.TAA01401-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Hollie Virgin wrote: >I noticed this when I was rereading the Arrows series too..._Arrow's Fall,_ >p. 213 > "Don't they _ever_ interfere?" she (Elspeth) asked, finally. > "Not in living memory. In some of the old chronicles, though...Some >Companions, very rarely, have intervened. But only when the situation was >hopeless, and only when there was no other way out of it except by their >aid. They were always Grove-born, though..." (Dirk) >Certainly _sounds_ like he's referring to Yfandes. But I agree that she's Why does it sound like she's interfering? She never poked her nose into Van's personal affairs, to my recollection. I mean, she could have told Van point-blank that Stef had lifebonded to him, but she waited while he ran around trying to avoid the issue for months and resolved it on his own to offer comments. I can't think of a single instance in which Yfandes offered comments when Van didn't ask her opinion, much less anything stronger. The interfering that Elspeth and Dirk are talking about is more on the order of Rolan or Ahrodie banging Dirk and Talia upside the head and forcing them to resolve their problems or Gwena directing Elspeth's Grand Fate than on the order of carrying Stefen to the Guard Post (which Van told her or asked her to do). >not Grove-born, mostly because Van sees her as a woman. Question - does >Gwena glow brightly to Elspeth's MageSight, like she did to...ah...I forget >what mage it was...Quenten, maybe? And if not, does she mask herself, or >does Elspeth just not see it, because she's not expecting it? My guess is that something in the Companion bond inhibits the Companions' glow to MageSight, since otherwise Herald-Mages would have difficulty Seeing anything because of the glow from the Companions, sort of like trying to see into the shadows with a floodlight next to you, but one that doesn't cast any light on the surroundings, just blinds you. Another possibility is that Companions are normally dim to MageSight and were deliberately showing themselves to Quenten and Darkwind, which would explain why Herald-Mages could be stationed on the Karsite border during the war... -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 19:16:10 -0400 (EDT) From: GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: <950920191610.20210be4-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU> > [Summary of several snipped bits from Adrienne York's mail:] > >>> > > [ Validemar is probably the most sophisticated country in... > recognizing the various gods & goddesses as ASPECTS of the same single pair, > >>> > [I disagree. Valdemar does not consider the various gods/godesses as >>> > aspects. The rule is that "there is no one true way". ] >>> >>> [Since I'm at work, I don't have an exact quote, but I think its in >>> Arrow's Fall, when Talia and Kris are going on her training circuit. >>> He says to the effect "They worship the Lady as Astera and the (Lord?) as > Kernos" which implied to me that - at least in Valdemar - there is a central >>> God/Goddess pair called by different names by Valdemarans. > >> [lots of other Valdemaran religions are non-dualistic. I really > don't think they believe the only structure of beliefs is the Sacred Couple. ] > > > > As I recall from one of the Vows and Honor books...Oathbreakers, I > believe...the Star-Eyed appeared to Tarma at one point and made some comment > to either Keth or the herald they were with...Prince Whatshisname...saying > "I am another aspect of your Lady Windborn" Well, that is one of the books that I have here. What the star-lady said to the Herald Rolan and his compainion was: "Do we not all serve to drive back the Dark, each in his own fashion? So I cry -- well meet, Children of My Other Self!" This leads me to believe that the Star-lady and the diety that is part of Valdemar are related, but that the way that they are manefested is diffrent for each country. So maybe the diety in Karse is also the Star lady, but in a diffrent form. I am not sure, but it is an interesting idea. Jennie :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 12:36:15 +1200 From: "Sarah Stock" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509202356.LAA01881-+AT+-ftp.paradigm.co.nz> > and from Selenay's explanations to Talia upon her arrival " It's a rather > odd thing, but for various reasons anyone who is of the proper material to > be a Herald finds his or her way to the city, the Court, or the Collegium > more often than not. Sometimes, though, the Companions have to go seeking > their Heralds themselves. There's one Companion that always does this; tell > me, in the tales you read, did you ever come across the title 'the Monarch's > Own Herald' ?...(she goes on and describes a MO's duties) ...When that > Herald dies, the Companion leaves the Collegium to search the Kingdom for a > successor. In the past reigns that hasn't taken more than a day or two, and > quite often he Chooses someone who is already a Herald or nearly ready to be > made one. This time, though, it was different. When Herald Talamir died, > his Companion was gone for nearly two months, something that hasn't happened > in a very long time....Well, we think it has something to do with the > current situation (she goes on & describes the deal with the Brat)." > I think I see a discrepancy here. How does the MOC leave the Collegium to search for his herald, if he often chooses someone already a herald, or in training? I don't have my books with me, so I'm not sure how accurate the quote above is, but it reads as what I remember. What, the herald he wants is automatically on holiday? This doesn't make any sense. What do you think, another bug :-) Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:02:40 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: SERRAted Edge series... Message-ID: <199509210002.UAA01425-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> David K. Storrs wrote: > BTW -- there was one of the Serrated Edge books that I'm sure I read, >but I can't remember it, and it's really bothering me. There were two books >with Joe, the son of the paramilitary cultist/preacher guy, in them. One >was Burning Chrome, where we meet Tannim's 'evil twin' (I liked the light >touches of humor in that one... "Oh my god, an 'evil twin' epsidoe," though >Tannim. "If this were the late movie, I'd turn it off." [[Not an exact >quote, since I'm at work, but close]]. > Anyway, the OTHER book is the one that I'm trying to remember...it >features a young girl, in the game of the preacher, and that's about all I >remember. Can anyone help me out? I'm really confused about which books you're talking about. To my recollection, the SERRAted Edge series consists of _Born to Run_, _Wheels of Fire_, _When the Bough Breaks_, and _Chrome Circle_. _Wheels of Fire_ features the militia cult, led by Joe's father the preacher. _Chrome Circle_ features Tannim's opposite, who's, ah, different, but not precisely evil, being a half-kitsune, and who isn't Tannim's twin by any stretch of the imagination, and Joe. I don't remember that line about the evil twin episode from any of the books... (_Born to Run_ is about teen runaways and prostitution. _When the Bough Breaks_ is about child sexual abuse. No, the topics *aren't* pretty...) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:05:16 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: <199509210005.UAA01438-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > I don't think that the vrondi >have anything to do with the Web; they just "watch" for non-Herald >mages/magic. The 'captive' vrondi are tied to the Web. See _Magic's Price_, when Van is extending the Web to fully link all Heralds through their Companions... -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:02:34 -0400 (EDT) From: GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Elspeth and manipulation Message-ID: <950920200234.20210be4-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU> Vivian said: > I've noticed that Elspeth has an almost violent reaction to being > manipulated. Do any of you think that she may be extra sensitive to > manipulative forces because of her childhood experiences, when she was > being influenced by Hulda to act horribly (and therefore almost lost the > chance at being chosen)? Wow! I never would have thought of that, but that makes perfect sense to me! So you are saying she notices that she is being manipulated more due to this? That would explain why she was suprised rather then thankful when she had so little trouble getting the compainions to help her go get a mage. Interesting, very interesting. Sounds plossible to me! Jennie :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:14:16 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509210014.UAA01449-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: >> Can you honestly imagine *Savil* being intimidated by *Withen*? A >> goddess maybe, but not Withen. And since the Companions had chosen such >> illustrious individuals as thieves and pickpockets, I don't think a >> little mask would pose that great a problem. A person can be a thief or a pickpocket and still be closer to Heraldic material than Vanyel was as a spoiled, self-centered, completely falsified brat. >Question: It appears that we've all interepreted "the testing" that is >referred to is a testing of who is Herald material and might be Chosen. >But maybe it is only a testing of Mage-gift? So that the Heralds could >make sure that Mage-Talented people got *good*, ethical training rather >that be taken in by a Blood-path mage?? I certainly didn't think Savil was testing Treesa and Withen's kids for Heraldic potential, just Gifts. She makes some remark about having hoped that at least one of them would have inherited her Gifts and being disappointed that *none* of their many children had any Gifts worth bothering with. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:24:53 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gods, Goddesses, etc. (WAS Re: Lots of things.) Message-ID: <199509210024.UAA01454-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: >On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, jennek wrote: >>Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: >>>effect that "They worship the Lady as Astera and the (Lord?) as Kernos" >>>which implied to me that - at least in Valdemar - there is a central >>>God/Goddess pair called by different names by Valdemarans. >>To me, it implied that the northerners had a God/Goddess pair, not >>that the entire country did. >But why emphasize the differing names/titles? (e.g. the Lady AS Astera, >implying that _their name_ for the Herald's "Bright Lady" was "Astera", >etc. Same Goddess, different name or aspect.) I don't think the emphasis is on the names, so much as the fact of the pair. Had they been going to the area where the People of the One live, I imagine Kris would've said something to the effect of that they worship the God as The One. Had they been going to an area which worshipped the Triple Goddess, I imagine he would've said something to the effect of that they worship the Lady as Agnira, Agnetha, and Agnoma. He was putting their religion into a framework that Talia would've understood, probably because it's a convenient way to teach the Religions class. >perhaps the worship of "the One" was a "newer" belief system realtive to >the "Sacred Couple" (thanks to whomever coined that!), like when Abraham >and his people left Ur at the directions of "the Lord God" - the >founding, if you will, of the Judeo-Christian-Islam monotheism. We really >little strange (including Heralds). OR, like Vkandis' consort, one of >them got "lost"??? (I admit, that's a stretch in this case!) >Interesting that only two monotheistic religions are mentioned at all, >and Vkandis' seems to have changed from a dual theology to a monotheistic >one (hopefully we'll find out more about that in the other Storms books!) Just as an aside, from what I've heard, Jehovah had a consort who got "lost", too, while the Jews were struggling to keep themselves separate from the neighboring tribes, many of whom worshipped a Goddess. >>Actually, it's stated that the policy has been in place since the >>Founding, when everyone had very homogeneous beliefs. It isn't >>something that only grew up when serious immigration started. >Touche, jenneke! I must have missed that along the line. >Although... SPOILER ALERT for >those who haven't read Storm Warning yet (and I'm only 2/3rds through it) In that case, you haven't missed it yet. It's somewhere in _SR_, I think.:-) It's said that Baron Valdemar put that 'law' in place before the problem came up, so that people would be used to the idea when it arose. Sort of the way separation of Church and State was put into the US Constitution before the US really had more than two religions, but applied more purely, since the Heralds are more ethical than the Congress. (Does that qualify for Understatement of the Year?) >Tremane keeps refering to "the forty little gods" and that the worship of >the Emporer and his ancestors was put into place ALONGSIDE whatever >belief/worship/deity systems existed in the areas that they conquered. He also refers to the hundred gods, in places. My feeling is that his religion is something between the pure worship of the Emperor and his predecessors and animism. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:18:32 -0400 From: EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Inherited gifts (spoiler for Winds books) Message-ID: <950921001829_104806484-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> My understanding of just about anything is that it all comes from you genes which you inherit from your parents and relatives. This should apply to gifts as well. Look and Firesong and Elspeth; both are desendents of Vanyel and are very powerful mages. It doesn't seem to be coincidence that these things are carried on through the genes and its just that some generations are more true than others. Some directly inherit blond hair and some just carry it and give it to their children for example. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:02:24 -0400 (EDT) From: diamond-+AT+-wizvax.net (Jill Wilber) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MOH - Jisa, the twins; Vanyel being Chosen Message-ID: > > Don't know about any else but How did I miss all the details that people > are flinging about about Selenays twins!! > > Arrggg I will have to read them two or 3 times, I still haven't noticed the > the savyil err savil bit by Yfades. Even after some one telling me exactly where > > I guess I just get to caught up in the storries to notice these sort of things! > > ian > Smile...I'm the same way. I read the story just to enjoy and then I read here about all the stuff thats between the lines. :) Diamond ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:55:30 -0400 From: EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: <950921001810_104806286-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> Re: Colette's message The bottom line on seeing more of Di or Andre at this point is whether the books make enough money or not. Misty's keeping herself really busy keeping up with all her series. Obviously she is going to work harder to finish the ones that make the most money for her and the publishers. Several people have commented on noticing her work dropping off a bit in quality. Don't get me wrong I really enjoyed the storm books but I do think the gryphon books are not some of her best work to date and they lack in character development. That has always been what attracted me to her books the depth of development into a characters mind that she does. Whether major or somewhat less important. I really enjoy the books in the elf series; especially the ones with Kory, Eric Banyon and Beth. However its been awhile since one came out. Yet the Valdemar ones are most regular. On another subject I really enjoy the music from Tempest and the tape involved with serrated edge. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:16:30 -0400 From: EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM thread... Message-ID: <950921001410_104806432-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> Okay this message was talking about deities and death and the relationships going on. Now I am reading Belgarath the Sorcerer now; which has nothing to do with Misty except the fact that the gods there have a purpose and people don't have free will with them. They will sacrific someones happiness to further their plans. After all the ultimate destiny is what is important not one "human's" happiness. Granted the deities of Misty seem to care more about the individual but that doesn't stop bad things from happening. I am sure that there was some sort of plan of what was going to happen through most of the stories. If someone had to suffer or die to get to the next point of greater good for everyone then that is what has to happen. Vanyel was a very important and major character in the history of Valdemar do you honestly think it was just chance all the things that happened in his life. All the circumstances that happened; most falling neatly into place one after another. What about the general feeling of all heralds about helping out everyone. To coin a phrase "the good of the many, outway the good of the one". If I was a god and something needed to happen that was to the good of the planet I sure would not hesitate to do what I had to to get it done. Finally who says death is so bad? Do you have personal experiences you want to share about anything? I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion of it. But it seems to me to be something that most of the characters in Misty's books don't fear as some awful ending. Its just a change to something else. Anyhow enough theological debates for one message! Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 95 16:42:41 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: <9509210642.AA05491-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> So far everyone's liked Children of the Night best out of the Diana Tregarde books.. Add me to the list.. Anyone want to plug for one of the others? Ok.. this may be the equivalent of standing in a thunderstorm on a bare hilltop in copper armour screaming blasphemies against the lightning gods [1] but here goes. It's interesting to me that the Misty books I consider my favourites - the LHM series, Children of the Night, Chrome Steel etc all have rather dark endings. The good guys may triumph, but at a high cost. They don't seem to have the sweetness & light endings that some (not all) of the other books seem to have (where bad things happen early, then the hero/ heroine comes along fights the good fight, wins, and all the main characters ride off into the sunset none the worse for wear). I'm not saying that the latter is bad, to me at least it just doesn't make for a book or series that goes onto my "touch under pain of pain" shelf. I guess this is more a complaint against the Winds of Change/Fury/Ummm series - they more or less remind me of a mystery novel where the main interest (apart from wonderful characterizations & writing - this is a plot complaint) is seeing exactly how everything wraps up to get the ending that you know is coming. Anyone else find this or am I wandering off into shadows? [1] Terry Pratchett anyone? Collete wrote: > anyone want to discuss the nature of misty's vampires? wonder what would > happen if diana knew there were elves? anyone want to bet she will? now > there is an intrest of mine, the eric banyon series. anyone else hear the > tempest music that goes with serrated edge? any opinions? Wow.. questions.. :) Hmmm, if Diana ever got to know elves personally, she'd probably get proper sorcerous training and look-out bad guys. :) After all, she did hold off 4 hand-maidens of a God's avatar all by her little lonesome.. Hmmm, interesting in retrospect that she picked up on Tannim's mage-talent as being psi.. also she wasn't overawed at his magic ability so I'd guess she's at least as good and probably quite a bit better in terms of natural ability. I'd guess Diana's running mainly on intuition and partial training when it comes to magic. Well, that's enough from me. Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing aka the Saint mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com To give light to them that sit in darkness. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:38:07 +0100 From: Jennifer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel Message-ID: <9509210032.aa19332-+AT+-buffnet1.buffnet.net> >If that big mess with Tylendel hadn't happened, Van's gifts would >probably have been opened anyway. Didn't they open a little before he >died, when 'lendel summoned the demons or whatever? here's my >scenario- Vanyel is in Haven, waiting for 'Lendel to come back from >the border or something, 'Lendel gets in big trouble and accidentally >draws on Vanyel's Mage-Gift. BOOM!!!! Vanyel's channels get blasted >open and he gets chosen. > >-L Actually, I think that Van's gifts opened a bit even before that. Remember the first night that he and Tylendel spent together. It started when Tylendel comforted him during his nightmare. The dream started out as the ice dream but at one point (p.114 I think) it shifted to resemble the foresight dreams he had later in the book. Granted, it was a very primitive version of his later dreams but it was filtered through his limited experiences. I suspect that Van's gifts would probably have opened on their own although I doubt that it would have been quite as dramatic had it happened in the normal way. Peace to all Jennifer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------- I made the choice to become a Herald, and if I knew I was going to die tomorrow, I still wouldn't choose otherwise. -Talia (Arrows of the Queen) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:35:21 +0200 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: <199509210935.5860.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:43:32 +0100, dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com said: > This is the only reference to this in any of the books, and > Vanyel was startled that it happened. But, according to my > understanding of how the Web Mk II was established, the Vrondi > should immediately have realized that Van was a Herald and not > tapped him. What's the deal? How do the vrondi recognize the Heralds? Clothing or the Companion, probably. At least, that would be my guess. Ok, now, Vanyel is at home, he is supposed to rest, and so, he wears _not_ his usual, white uniform, but civilian clothes. Right? And, he wanted to think something through, and so, he took another horse, _not_ Yfandes. So, what do we have? A mage. There is nothing for the vrondi to tell that he is a Herald-Mage. Does this sound reasonable? -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 07:41:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Rosario Holsen-Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: I'm back! Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, David K. Storrs wrote: > >Colette (nimune oceanwalker) wrote: > > > >***************snippety*****snip********snip*****major snips ************ > >now, how about those elves?! > > > >I'm answering your comment about elves because I want to know if anyone > >has the same reaction to the _Serrated_Edge (I think I did that right?) > >series, that I do..... which is: I get extremely depressed after reading > >them. I don't see how Misty could write about such horrid things > >happening to children as much as she does. I think it's great that she > >champions children and writes about abuses, but I can't bring myself to > >read the books more than once. Don't get me wrong --I like the books, but > >I personally can not handle them, --They make me feel helpless in away.... > > > > True, she writes about horrible abuses to children, but notice that > the story always ends up positively...think of it as catharsis. > > BTW -- there was one of the Serrated Edge books that I'm sure I read, > but I can't remember it, and it's really bothering me. There were two books > with Joe, the son of the paramilitary cultist/preacher guy, in them. One > was Burning Chrome, where we meet Tannim's 'evil twin' (I liked the light > touches of humor in that one... "Oh my god, an 'evil twin' epsidoe," though > Tannim. "If this were the late movie, I'd turn it off." [[Not an exact > quote, since I'm at work, but close]]. > Anyway, the OTHER book is the one that I'm trying to remember...it > features a young girl, in the game of the preacher, and that's about all I > remember. Can anyone help me out? > > Dave It was the...oh, crap, blanking out..._Wheels of Fire_, that's it. It also had this elemental fire creature called (appropriatly enough) the Salamander that stirred up violent emotions in people. Hey, here's a question for you. Joe had to have been made to see at least a few of the meetings. How come the Salamander didn't decide he was a juicy target and try to exploit the boy's powers or something? --Jaguar-- "You may be older and have all manner of magic behind you, but I bet I'm a lot more stubborn than you are" --Mercedes Lackey-- Yes, yes, I'm going to look that up as soon as I get home. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:10:09 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Mercedes Lackey Novels Message-ID: <9509211210.AA22951-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> > So far everyone's liked Children of the Night best out of the Diana > Tregarde books.. Add me to the list.. > Anyone want to plug for one of the others? > No, I'll stick with Children of the Night. See, once upon a time, I found one of the Arrows books in my local library, and thought it was good, but could never find any of the others, in shops or libraries. Then I was shopping for books to read on my honeymoon [1] and bought the Last Herald-Mage trilogy. Having devoured those in not-very-long-at-all, we happened to be pottering around a second-hand bookshop in Vancouver, and I found a battered copy of "Children of the Night" for 50c. I haven't looked back since. I will be really disappointed if we don't see any more Di books. (Hm, I may even write to the publisher saying so. I may also add a footnote that having them published in the UK would be kind of nice.) > [1] Terry Pratchett anyone? > In spades. (I only lack a few of the full collection of first editions. Anyone wishing to sell same of "The Light Fantastic", "Colour of Magic", "Carpet People" original edition, or "Strata", do tell.) Cheers Mel. [1] Anyone who thinks that one might not have time to read on one's honeymoon severely underestimates the level of my attachment to books. :) (And/or my reading speed.) ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 150 *********************************