MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 154 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory (fwd) by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 2) Re: SERRAted Edge series... by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) 3) Re: LHM(SPOILER) by Mat Timmerman 4) Re: Lots of things. by Mat Timmerman 5) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by Adrienne York 6) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) 7) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory (fwd) by Adrienne York 8) Re: I'm back! by RLGilb-+AT+-aol.com 9) Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 10) Re: Di by WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com (MR DAVID W BAHRKE) 11) Re: Lifebonds by Anne Cross 12) Re: LHM(SPOILER) by RLGilb-+AT+-aol.com 13) Digests by Rhonda Rodriguez 14) Older Chosen by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 15) Re: Older Chosen by Adrienne York ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:37:44 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory (fwd) Message-ID: <199509221837.AA228465064-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> >On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > >> I agree with Adrienne. There would have to be a bond with a Companion >> for someone to be linked into the Web. I don't think that the vrondi >> have anything to do with the Web; they just "watch" for non-Herald >> mages/magic. >> >> Cecile >> > I thought that part of the "deal" Vanyel and Savil made with the >Vrondi was that, in return for tapping on the shoulder of anyone using >magic inside Valdemar's borders, they could feed off of the energy of the >Haven heartstone (and thus the energy of the web). I distinctly remember >Vanyel offering the massed elementals some sort of power line, then >pulling it back until they agreed to play guards. > I also recall something about the Vrondi notifying the nearest >Herald mage if they found anyone who didn't have the right "password". >Woulnd't they have to be tied into the web to find a native mage who >wasn't using power right at that moment? > I always pictured the whole Vrondi spell as a kind of network >overlaying the Web; powered by it, but still only a peripheral aspect. > > Clear skies, > > The Wordsmith of Irymar I would agree. Remember when Vanyel decided that he was going to take down that part of the spell which had been protecting Valdemar from outside Mages and had told Elspeth et al, he mentioned that he wanted to take down that part of the spell so that the Vrondi wouldn't be hurt by outside Mages forcefully breaking down the shield which would suggest that, as you mentioned, the Vrondi aspect was an addition to the general Web spell to give further protection to Valdemar. Helen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:28:08 -0400 From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: SERRAted Edge series... Message-ID: <199509221728.NAA08884-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> >I'm really confused about which books you're talking about. To my >recollection, the SERRAted Edge series consists of _Born to Run_, >_Wheels of Fire_, _When the Bough Breaks_, and _Chrome Circle_. >_Wheels of Fire_ features the militia cult, led by Joe's father the >preacher. _Chrome Circle_ features Tannim's opposite, who's, ah, >different, but not precisely evil, being a half-kitsune, and who isn't >Tannim's twin by any stretch of the imagination, and Joe. I don't >remember that line about the evil twin episode from any of the >books... > The line was in _Chrome Circle_, I promise. (I've read that one recently) -- I don't have the book with me, so I can't give you a page number. Also, it was not an exact quote -- I email from the office, so I never have my books to hand. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:32:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <01HVKY2VJ25E8ZEUII-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: Ina Faye-Lund > [Mat Timmerman] Oooo, me ! :) > > > I think that I have an idea of what Teren meant about the MOC always > > searching. If you look at the "normal" Caompanions, many of them > > seem to sit around the Field, waiting for their Chosen to show up in > > Haven. Like, for example, Kris' Companion Tantris. Kris wanted to > > be a Herald, but it wasn't until he went to Court with his parents > > that he was Chosen. IIRC, something like that happened to Dirk too. > > So, I think the difference between MOC Choosing is that other C's > > can go looking for a Chosen, or sit around and wait for him/her. > > The MOC, OTOH, must Choose someone right away. > > > Or, rather, that the MOC doesn't really Choose. The others Choose, > but the MOC knows who he should "Choose", and so, he has to go out to > find this person? Is that a possibility? > I think that it's more that regular C's can either hang around waiting for their Chosen, or go look for him/her, but the MOC has _no_ choice (no, that's not meant to be Choice). He still Chooses who the MOH will be, but he isn't allowed to wait for him/her to come to Haven if he/she isn't there. > > > Remember that Shavri and Jisa being in Haven and Chosen as MOH is > > the norm. Talia's was the more abnormal Choosing. Didn't someone > > say that it had been a long time since the MOC left Haven for the > > MOH? The thing about searching for a new MOH just means that the > > MOC can't just sit around on his duff like other C's can, waiting > > for the new MOH to show up. > > > Don't remember, but wasn't that about Rolan having gone out to search > three weeks ago, and people thinking that was a long time? > IIRC, it was two months. People worried b/c, in th past, when the MOH died, there was a new one in a day or two. This time, though, they hadn't heard anything of Rolan in 2 months. Wouldn't you get a little worried about what was going on? Mat T. -------------------------------- | Mat Timmerman | | accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu | | mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu | -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:38:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: <01HVKYCI81CS8ZEUII-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" Snippity, snip, snip. > I just had a thought that ties into the "Talia in Karse" thread as well. > Does anyone know what the religion of the Holderkin is/was? Since they > left/were expelled from Karse, I take it that its NOT Vkandis-worship?? > Or is it a "heretical" version of that? Perhaps that has something to do > with Talia being made a Sun-Priest, since she was Holderkin-bred? > > Cecile > IIRC (I seem to be using that expresion a lot lately :) ), the Holderkin follow a domineering god and a submissive goddess. I think that it's mentioned somewhere in Arrows. Therefore, it's, once again, the Sacred Couple(tm). So, no, i doubt that that's the reason for Talia's Priestess-ness. Mat T. -------------------------------- | Mat Timmerman | | accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu | | mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu | -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:27:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 1995, Melanie Dymond Harper wrote: > > Vrondi pick up on the fact that someone is a mage, rather than a Herald-Mage; > if I remember rightly, there is some kind of recognition signal that one is > supposed to give them if one is an "authorised" mage (which, in this case, means > a Herald-Mage). Presumably Herald-Mages would be taught it during training. > > This, of course, doesn't explain why Elspeth didn't get consistently pestered, > except if it picked up only on the use of those powers rather than their mere > presence. I tend to think that the vrondi just got bored, with no mages to > pester ... :) Uh, didn't Van *say* he was taking down the vrondi-watching spell right before Elspeth & Co. gated into Valdemar? Before that, Elspeth wouldn't have been bothered for the same reason Hulda wasn't. She never used magic. What I want to know is why the vrondi never came near the Companions, if they were using mage energy so much they were bleached white at birth? ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:28:58 -0700 From: wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: <199509222028.NAA20836-+AT+-ix3.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > >Did anyone notice in Storm Warning that the Karsites had a Goddess that >disappeared and the song part of Oathbreaker mention is made of a Shin'a'in God >who somehow disappeared also. I forget the Karsite envoy's name but he and the >Shin'a'in Envoy (both Priests) went off to have a hush hush discussion the >subject of which we are not told. Could it be about theology and the other >half that supposedly disappeared? (Wild speculation) However both deities >seem to participate actively in the lives of their people(s). Is it possible >that the Star-eyed and the Sunlord are the deities that disappeared in the >Karsite and the Shin'a'in religions? Sorry this a little incoherent. > Has anyone noted the parallels between the Shin'a'in Star-Eyed and the Karsite Sunlord? They are equal and opposite _pairs_ (sun=day star=night).... Both have their own priesthood, and a distiction between the mages and the priests of the clergy (Kal'endral= Priest; Shaman= Mage).. I think this is a lil too convenient to overlook, hmm? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:38:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory (fwd) Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 20:57:26 -0400 (EDT) > From: Sunfalcon > To: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" > Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory > > > > On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > > > I agree with Adrienne. There would have to be a bond with a Companion > > for someone to be linked into the Web. I don't think that the vrondi > > have anything to do with the Web; they just "watch" for non-Herald > > mages/magic. > > > > Cecile > > > I thought that part of the "deal" Vanyel and Savil made with the > Vrondi was that, in return for tapping on the shoulder of anyone using > magic inside Valdemar's borders, they could feed off of the energy of the > Haven heartstone (and thus the energy of the web). I distinctly remember > Vanyel offering the massed elementals some sort of power line, then > pulling it back until they agreed to play guards. > I also recall something about the Vrondi notifying the nearest > Herald mage if they found anyone who didn't have the right "password". > Woulnd't they have to be tied into the web to find a native mage who > wasn't using power right at that moment? IIRC, the vrondi *are* fed from the Web, BUT Van never did figure out how to make them react with alarm to strangers. They just kept watching whoever it was. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:13:31 -0400 From: RLGilb-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I'm back! Message-ID: <950922191330_26651294-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 95-09-20 14:24:45 EDT, you write: >Why is everyone so sure that gifts are herditary(left my self checker at >home!) >I thought they were gifts from the gods rather than somthing that could >be passed from parent to child We know they are hereditary because of Firesong's quote in Wind's of Change when he tells Elspeth of her relationship to Vanyel. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:15:51 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans Message-ID: <199509230015.UAA03193-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Marina S Y Chong wrote: >IMO part of the problem is that the books tend to find themselves in >the Horror sections of bookshops instead of Fantasy, and ML is not >known as a writer of horror tales. Also, I'm sure I'm not the only ML fan who is most definitely not a horror fan. I haven't read any of the Di Tregarde books for this reason. (I've only ever read one book which I consider horror, and that was only because the first few in the series were really good and *not* horror (Tanya Huff's Blood series).) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 22:10:58 EDT From: WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com (MR DAVID W BAHRKE) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di Message-ID: <013.01740857.WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com> Well, since everyone seems to be talking about Children of the Night. I would like to say that I enjoyed Jinx High very much. I thought that it was very amusing. On a different note, after reading the postings on the Serrated Edge, which I had no clue that they even existed, I had to run out and search the bookstores until I could find one. Now that I have one I am looking forward to reading it. I would like to say that I think that Vanyel is getting a bad rap. I don't think that he was nearly as spoiled and self-centered when he got to Haven as everyone keeps pointing out. I think that after he was trampled over his entire life that was the only way for him to survive, and that is why he acted like he did for survival. If you don't agree with that, look at it this way, how many people do you know that can do a 180 degree turn around in their personality. Zhai'Helleva, David Bahrke WXAV85D-+AT+-PRODIGY.COM ----------------------------------------- \ / \ / \ PROUD / \ TO / \ BE / \ ME / \ / \ / \ / \ / \/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 00:23:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Anne Cross To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds Message-ID: > Firesong and An'desha are not actually a lifebonded pair. Other pairs > for your consideration: Selenay/Daren, Kerowyn/Eldan, Kethry/Jadrek, Kethry and Jadrek weren't lifebonded. They were just madly in love. Remember, Jadrek's been dead for some time before Kero was born, but Kethry's still around, and there's no indication she went mad with grief the way Keren did when Ysla died. Anne juniper-+AT+-fledge.watson.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 04:35:59 -0400 From: RLGilb-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <950923043557_106668477-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> Testing for gifts allows the tester to see which gifts are active and which gifts are only in potential. Van tested Jissa and told Shavri which gifts she would have. Isn't it interesting that Shavri was able to do it although it was "a major task for her" and not for Vank, and now no one can. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:34:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Rhonda Rodriguez To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Digests Message-ID: Hello, sorry to clog up the list with this, as I am not a newbie but I did misplace my copy of the FAQ. :( I was wondering how to reset my mail to digest form. I am so busy that I can only check my mail once a week and when I opened my mailbox this morning to find 338 messages I almost had a nervous breakdown! Thanks - Rhonda ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:17:38 -0400 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Older Chosen Message-ID: <9509231817.AA24988-+AT+-water.waterw.com> A thought - If people are older than "kids" when Chosen, do they have to go thru the whole Herald-Trainee, Gray-wearing, Collegium business? The books seem to contradict themselves on this. In "Arrows of the Queen", Sherril tells Talia that Elcarth wasn't Chosen until he was 20 and didn't get his Whites until 3 years later. But in "By the Sword" Kero is Chosen on the battlefield, and apparently very shortly thereafter is standing around on the roof of the palace musing about what to do with her Company and the "special classes" the Heralds wanted her to take - but she's wearing *Whites* while all this is going on (she's also complaining about having to wear an "oh shoot me now" uniform). Teren was Chosen after he was married and had kids - does anybody remember if the books say anything about how long it took him to go thru the Collegium, or if he even had to? Jeanne Hedge jhedge-+AT+-water.waterw.com 75512.1214-+AT+-compuserve.com ================================================================ "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink..." --Samuel Taylor Coleridge, 'The Rime of the Ancient Mariner' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 15:41:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Older Chosen Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Sep 1995, Jeanne Hedge wrote: > If people are older than "kids" when Chosen, do they have to go thru the > whole Herald-Trainee, Gray-wearing, Collegium business? The books seem to > contradict themselves on this. > > In "Arrows of the Queen", Sherril tells Talia that Elcarth wasn't Chosen > until he was 20 and didn't get his Whites until 3 years later. But in "By > the Sword" Kero is Chosen on the battlefield, and apparently very shortly > thereafter is standing around on the roof of the palace musing about what to > do with her Company and the "special classes" the Heralds wanted her to take > - but she's wearing *Whites* while all this is going on (she's also > complaining about having to wear an "oh shoot me now" uniform). (end snip) Those are two very different situations, I think. Wasn't Elcarth a fisherman? Not much of fisherman training would apply to what Herald's have to do. But Kero, as a merc captain, would have extensive knowledge of how to deal with people of different cultures, how to use a little to make a lot, and dealt with a very strict code. She'd also know how to deal with both servants and nobility from her childhood. And she'd know about strategy, tactics, and weapons, which are useful in a war situation. My guess is, people are given as much training as they *need*, and if they pretty much know all they need to know, they're given a few supplemental classes. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "May your life be interesting" potent Shin'a'in curse ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 154 *********************************