MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 159 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Older Chosen by Mat Timmerman 2) Re: Deities & Free will. Was: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM threa... by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 3) RE: Another Companion Thought by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 4) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU 5) Re: Inherited gifts (spoiler for Winds books) by Gyrfalcon 6) RE: LHM(SPOILER) by Anne Cross 7) Re: Vrondi/Web (was: RE: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory) by Adrienne York 8) Re: Di Tregarde bookx: info from Tor by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 9) Re: A couple of things. by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 10) Re: Older Chosen by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 11) Re: Older Chosen by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 12) Re: Lifebonds by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 13) Re: A couple of things. by Adrienne York 14) Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans by Jean Morrill 15) Re: nyara's fertility by Julie Vaux 16) Re: Older Chosen by "Kristin A. Ruhle" 17) Re: Lifebonds...& An'desha and Firesong. by "U SANNA KOULU" 18) Re: TLAs by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 19) Re: Vrondi/Web (was: RE: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory) by Catherine Osborne 20) RE: Another Companion Thought by Alan Fleming 21) what does IIRC mean by Ian MacDonald 22) RE: LHM(SPOILER) by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) 23) RE: Another Companion Thought by Ian MacDonald 24) RE: LHM(SPOILER) by "Aphrael" 25) Re: Older Chosen by Gyrfalcon 26) Re: A couple of things. by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 27) Re: Inherited gifts by "Aphrael" 28) Re: Inherited gifts (spoiler for Winds books) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 12:25:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Older Chosen Message-ID: <01HVRQZPLXDK8ZFC9X-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" > Adrienne York wrote: > >On Sat, 23 Sep 1995, Jeanne Hedge wrote: > >>If people are older than "kids" when Chosen, do they have to go thru the > >>whole Herald-Trainee, Gray-wearing, Collegium business? The books seem to > >>contradict themselves on this. > >>In "Arrows of the Queen", Sherril tells Talia that Elcarth wasn't Chosen > >>until he was 20 and didn't get his Whites until 3 years later. But in "By > > It was Teren, wasn't it? No, in this case, it referred to Elcarth. I got the impression that the reason that he got his Whites in _only_ three years, was that he was so smart. This implies that he had to go through the trainee stage, but he got skipped a "grade". I think that Teren underwent the trainee stuff too, but at the moment, I can't think of why I do. > >situation. My guess is, people are given as much training as they > >*need*, and if they pretty much know all they need to know, they're given > >a few supplemental classes. > > This sounds right to me. In Kero's case, they would've been almost > entirely in the history and laws of Valdemar. Geography, the > political situation, and courtly graces she already had down pat.:-) > Also, Kero might've been given Whites purely for expedience: her > expertise was needed immediately, and Selenay wouldn't've wanted > nitpickers to harp on her not having her Whites yet as a reason why > she shouldn't be listened to. I agree. Elcarth and Teren were ordinary people, with no special training when they were Chosen. Kero was not. They needed to learn all of the things that Kero already knew. Mat T. -------------------------------- | Mat Timmerman | | accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu | | mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu | -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:25:54 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Deities & Free will. Was: Re: Yfandes (WAS)Re: SR tied into the LHM threa... Message-ID: Nobody has mentioned Ulrich's little "sermonette" on free will being given by the gods. The deities may direct that circumstances occur so that the solutions to problems can be designed, implemented, etc but the HUMANS involved can IGNORE the signals. Elspeth could have chosen to remain in Haven, rather than look for a mage. She could have acquiesed to the original plan in Council, that is, a STATE VISIT to Rethwellan, etc. etc. The fact that the Companions TRIED to tie her to a SPECIFIC path and "choice" indicates their fallibility; they failed to take into account the human free will AND the fact that there may be several paths to a solution. I think the deities would take that into account and ensure that several paths are open and that there are alternatives, even tho the humans might not see them. Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:32:17 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Another Companion Thought Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Adrienne York wrote: (other stuff on lifebonded reincarnation snipped) (I have giant magic scissors too Adrienne!)> > > I would think it had something to do with the strength of the bond. And > whether there was any unfinished business between them. And anyway, as > Tylendel proved, they could come back as people, rather than as > Companions. Then, would there be that big a problem? > Correct me if I'm misremembering, but Tylendel was not a full Herald at the time of his death, was he? I thought he was just about to get his Whites, which is another reason that it was surprising that the Death Bell rang. If I remember correctly the Collegia allowed him to be buried in full Whites _because_ the Bell had rung. So maybe he didn't have the same "choice" offered to full Heralds, and was reincarnated as a person rather than a Companion. Just a thought. Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 12:30:43 -0400 (EDT) From: GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: <950927123043.2021633a-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU> >>Remember, Hulda didn't use magic when she was in Valdemar, so that the >>Vrondi wouldn't catch her. But Quenten and Kethry did and both of them >>got very uncomfortable. Kethry mentions it later. >> >> Anne Cross > > Wasn't Hulda consistently using illusion to maintain a changed > appearance? They never specifically SAY that the disguise is magical, so it > could have been physical...or it might be that MAINTAINING magic that was > cast outside Valdemar won't attract vrondi (i.e., it is the ritual of > starting a spell that they notice, not the flow of magic). > > Dave I remember in _Oathbreakers_ that Kethry mentions that as an adapt there is a way to create and illusion and make it look to anyone looking for magic as though no magic was being used. Kethrey said that this was a spell that only adepts could use, but wasn't Hulda an adept. This could explain why the vrondi didn't tap her on the shoulder. Just a thought. Jennie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 15:03:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Inherited gifts (spoiler for Winds books) Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 1995 AnneR123-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Just wondering: > Where did Talia get her Empathy? I'm pretty sure none of the books ever > mention her having gifted relatives. > Yes, but the books also don't go into much detail about Talia's relatives either. I wouldn't be suprised if she did have a Herald in the family tree somewhere. A rouge aunt or uncle that nobody ever talks about anymore because they're improper or a "bad influcence". --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 16:52:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Anne Cross To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: > wasnt that heakers name Andrel??? Yes. > and what the heck is MOC????? Monarch's Own Companion. (Oh, I miss my books...500 miles away is a long distance to try to remember things from...) Anne Cross juniper-+AT+-fledge.watson.org http://fledge.watson.org/~juniper/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:25:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vrondi/Web (was: RE: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory) Message-ID: Maybe it's a one time works forever recognition thing, getting bothered by the Vrondi. Or maybe at the time of Van's death the vrondi hadn't realized how far into the Northern borders Valdemar reached. That's why we don't hear about Van getting bothered. Or maybe Misty just thought that would be too boring to read. As to why we never hear about any other mages being bothered, what other mages do we see work magic after Van sets the spell? Leareth and his lackeys, yes, but they could have driven off the vrondi with a lot of negative energy and lying. Or they might have captured and killed them all, I don't know. And besides, we never know what's going on with Leareth and his mages aside from what Van and Stef see and hear. So when would we have had the opportunity to see vrondi bothering people? > Second, Van is _never_ again bothered by the vrondi, nor is any > other herald mage...you'd think there would have been some mention, if they > were all going batty with curious vrondi peeking over their shoulders every > time they did magic. > > Dave > ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 18:25:04 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di Tregarde bookx: info from Tor Message-ID: <199509272225.SAA05607-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Sandy Haas wrote: >OK--I am admitting failure. Every time I try to access "alt. >books.m-lackey" I get a "host unknown" message. Am I doing something >wrong?? Yes: alt.books.m-lackey is a newsgroup, not a machine. Ask your sysadmin about newsreaders.... -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 18:37:58 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A couple of things. Message-ID: <199509272237.SAA05610-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Ina Faye-Lund wrote: >Second, about Gala repudiating Tylendel; _if_ what Tylendel did was >unforgivable, why would Cymry continue supporting Skif after what he >did? The story mentioned in Winds of Change, about Skif going in and >killing the one who tricked him while he was working as a border >guide. The one he killed the way his friends were killed, you know >the story? Well, Tylendel had other ways of bringing the Leshara to justice, like coming out of his own cocoon and telling Savil what they'd done, instead of assuming that Heraldic intelligence was as good as what he got directly from his brother. There really wasn't any way for Skif to bring that traitor to justice other than to go out and administer it himself, and I don't know that Cymry entirely approved of his methods, once they caught him. Also, Skif was targetting the single person who was responsible for the criminal act he was avenging, but Tylendel was targetting not only the Leshara family, but all their guests and servants as well. If he'd only gone after the one Leshara who hired the mage who killed Staven, Gala might not have repudiated him, but he abandoned all consideration for the innocents who were going to be hurt by his revenge. >So, the conclusion is, Companions _are_ reincarnated Heralds, and Gala >was the one who did a mistake. Gala undoubtedly made mistakes, but I'm not sure that repudiating Tylendel was one, at that point in time, regardless of the Fate argument. She shouldn't have trusted that distance dimmed the link between Tylendel and Staven. She should have noticed that Tylendel was keeping that part of his mind associated with the link hidden from her. She should have noticed that he thought of her as a shelter and teacher, not as a partner. She should have noticed that his real recovery was much faster than it ought to have been, even if Savil was deceived by his act. She should have noticed his monomaniacal obsession with revenge before it came to a head. But once she hadn't done any of that, even if Tylendel regained his sanity, he couldn't have been a Herald, because nobody in the entire country would have been able to trust him after he released wyrsa in the pursuit of personal revenge. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 18:43:01 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Older Chosen Message-ID: <199509272243.SAA05613-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Jeanne Hedge wrote: [jenneke wrote:] >>Adrienne York wrote: >>>On Sat, 23 Sep 1995, Jeanne Hedge wrote: >>>Those are two very different situations, I think. Wasn't Elcarth a >>>fisherman? Not much of fisherman training would apply to what Herald's >>Teren, like Keren and Sherill, was from the lake district. I haven't >>the foggiest idea where Elcarth came from. >Later in the same book, Keren tells Talia that Talia seems like a little >sister to her (and, among other things): "As close, maybe, as my twin - >which is damned odd, considering that I've got a niece and nephew nearly >your age." In another book (?) there's something about him having been >married and working on the fishing boats when he was Chosen. But I don't >remember anything about how old he was or how long it took him to get thru >the Collegium. Well, Teren had to've been older than the average trainee, if he'd been married, had two kids, and worked on the fishing boats before he was Chosen... -jenneke PS. Please remember to include attributions... I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 19:03:29 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Older Chosen Message-ID: <199509272303.TAA05621-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: >Seriously, tho...what happens when someone older gets Chosen? Not much >is said about their dependents? Is there some kind of "Herald's Village" >where the families move to, or perhaps the Herald's are assigned to >circuits that pass near their homes? (No, that doesn't make sense when I >think about Talia's training, hmmmm) Or do Companions choose adults that >_can_ leave those other responsibilities? In _SW_, we find out that dependents who cannot be left with relatives (the way Teren's children were) can be taken to Haven and cared for/given work there. Remember, though, that very few Heralds have such dependents, since most of them are Chosen around the age of 13-15... >Would you be willing to leave >your wife/husband/lover/children just because some white "horse" >whispered into your mind?? Well, according to Keren, when a Companion Chooses you, you find that ties other than a lifebond just aren't as important as you'd thought they were. (_Arrows of the Queen_, re: Teren) >What about Heralds that marry after they are >Heralds (other than life-bonded or Herald-Herald relationships)? Can you name any? Heralds that marry after they're Heralds who don't marry another Herald or their lifebonded. Monarchs don't count. Personally, I don't think such relationships exist, and there are comments in _Arrows of the Queen_ about how Heralds who aren't lifebonded seem to be quite happy with the casual comradeship of the Circle and the occasional (or frequent) daliance without commitment. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 19:15:10 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds Message-ID: <199509272315.TAA05625-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Vivian Choh wrote: > I know that Selenay and Daren and supposed to be lifebonded, and >that one of the pair is supposed to be emotionally unstable, but I'm not >sure that the S/D pair should really apply....I tend to see the S/D Well, the bit about one of the pair being unstable is really a theory, not a law. IIRC, Stefen says that stable-unstable pairs are more likely, but he doesn't say that they're the only ones possible. >Do any of you really see either of them as emotionally unstable? Well, one could argue that the Monarch is inherently unstable... > Re: Kero/Eldan pairing...Is this really a lifebonded pair? I >thought I read the FAQs somewhere (maybe on the Web pages somewhere?) that >K/E were NOT). I don't know about the FAQs, but I'd be really disappointed if they weren't, since they fit the given descriptions pretty damn well. They fell in love a damned sight faster than ordinary mortals do (a matter of days or weeks, not months or years), they missed each other terribly while they were apart (or they wouldn't have been able to MindSpeak each other over that distance, even in trance, since neither of them was that strong a MindSpeaker to anyone else), and they were totally devoted to each other once they acknowledged the bond. > I know this is wrong, but I always saw the lifebonded pair as a >love-at-first-sight kinda thing. It is a love-at-first-sight kinda thing, at least according to Keren. But the definition of 'first sight' isn't 'the first time photons which had reflected off x entered y's eyes'. Remember, Kris's remark about Talia/Dirk was that it must be a very strong bond to have shown up the first time they literally saw each other, instead of the first time they had extended contact with each other, the way it happened for Keren and Ylsa. Kero didn't have the kicked-in-the-chest feeling when she first laid eyes on Eldan, but she did have an unusually strong reaction to him afterwards. The fact that she wrote it off as a reaction to near-death doesn't mean that was all there was to it. After all, she'd been near death before and hadn't had any similar reaction. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 23:26:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A couple of things. Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Ina Faye-Lund wrote: (snip, snippety, snip, snip) > Second, about Gala repudiating Tylendel; _if_ what Tylendel did was > unforgivable, why would Cymry continue supporting Skif after what he > did? The story mentioned in Winds of Change, about Skif going in and > killing the one who tricked him while he was working as a border > guide. The one he killed the way his friends were killed, you know > the story? > > So, the conclusion is, Companions _are_ reincarnated Heralds, and Gala > was the one who did a mistake. Those were, I think, two different situations. One, Skif was in the middle of a national war. 'Lendel was dealing with a Holding dispute he'd already been warned to stay out of. Two, Skif went in with the intent of killing one person. 'Lendel wanted to destroy all of the Leshara. Three, Skif had Cymry's help from the beginning. 'Lendel was hiding what he wanted to do. Four, Skif was sane. 'Lendel was not. They weren't the same thing, and while I'm not sure Gala was right, Cymry wasn't faced with the same choices. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 21:16:03 -0700 From: Jean Morrill To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans Message-ID: <199509280416.VAA18779-+AT+-flood.hwr.arizona.edu> > I also don't read a lot of mystery novels > because of my very bad habit of reading the last few pages first:} You can add me to the non-horror fan list, too. Some of the torture stuff in Simon Hawke's "Wizard of ___" series is pretty gross too, along the line of the Burning Water stuff. His bad guys have some similarities to the blood-path mages. My mystery tendencies vary. Usually I read about half the book, can't stand the suspense, read the ending to find out who is still alive at the end of the book, and then decide whether or not I really feel like reading the rest of the book once I know the ending. Catch 22 or something. I like to read the last pages of books sometimes, especially in the store, to decide if I want to buy the book. Jean p.s. to keep this post sort of on track, my favorite Diana Tregarde novel is CotN. JH was ok, but I found the ending dissatisfying, especially if the sequel may not come out... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 14:35:45 +1000 (EST) From: Julie Vaux To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: nyara's fertility Message-ID: <199509280435.OAA16909-+AT+-metz.une.edu.au> Regarding Nyara's fertility - in addition to the points already made. One) she may have been sterile with Falconsbane for genetic reasons. His body was that of a modified human whereas Nyara is a combination of Changechild and Human. I am presuming judging from Nyara's appearance pre and post healing /change by need and the goddess and from what we've been told that Nyara is not first generation changechild and probably has a mixed ancestry for several generations. Given Falconsbane's "delightful"habits she could be his granddaughter as well as his daughter! Two) Falconsbane is no Healer or physician of any sort . He may have been wrong ! Nyara may have reached puberty but not be ovulating and also she may have been malnourished which would inhibit fertility. Three) frankly I think they were all speculating or making educated guesses and we'll just have to wait and see if she and Skif decide to have children. Julie Magissa Vaux ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 22:20:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Kristin A. Ruhle" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Older Chosen Message-ID: <199509280520.AA26370-+AT+-foxtrot.rahul.net> > > > And what about Rubrick??? > (There, that's all I'll say so this isn't a SW spoiler!) > > Seriously, tho...what happens when someone older gets Chosen? Not much > is said about their dependents? Is there some kind of "Herald's Village" > where the families move to, or perhaps the Herald's are assigned to > circuits that pass near their homes? (No, that doesn't make sense when I > think about Talia's training, hmmmm) Or do Companions choose adults that > _can_ leave those other responsibilities? Would you be willing to leave > your wife/husband/lover/children just because some white "horse" > whispered into your mind?? What about Heralds that marry after they are > Heralds (other than life-bonded or Herald-Herald relationships)? > Well the ultimate example of an older Chosen with dependents would have to be Kerowyn. Even though she didn't have a family at that time (she wasn't *married* to Eldan, but they were still in love) her Company was her family, and her responsibility. She became a Herald while staying in charge of them - the Queen deeded an entire border town to the Skybolts. Actually, I think most Chosen with dependents *have* to come to some kind of accommodation; their Herald duties come first and I think their families, if they have any, would understand this. They could move to Haven to be near the Herald in question. Of course there is always the issue that the Herald in question might get killed. Most older Heralds we learn of in the series, however, are not "Ordinary" front line Field Heralds but people in some position of authority at the Collegium, which might mean they were in battle less. perhaps the Field-Heralds are the ones who are chosen at age 13-15, and tend to avoid making life commitments unless it is a lifebond since they KNOW they must dance with death every day. Kristin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:46:14 EET From: "U SANNA KOULU" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds...& An'desha and Firesong. Message-ID: [I apologize if this is a bit confused and such. I'm as green as they come... but not for too long, I hope. :) ] I agree, obviously An'desha and Firesong can't be lifebonded, or they would go mad with frustration. And An'Desha would definitely have noticed Firesong's bitterness -and cared about it. On SR: I think Firesong's character fluctuates too much. In WoC, he is VERY confident (-seeming?), flirtatious, and is seen as someone brilliant, beautiful and supremely gifted. In Winds of Fury, he becomes a true Healing Adept - feels the pain of others and learns compassion. (That's such a wonderful scene!) Those traits hardly fit the picture of him in SR: bitter, depressed, frustrated about his lover drifting away. I think the character changes aren't well enough described - Firesong seems schizophrenic. This is not to say he shouldn't change! It seems interesting, the way he turns to darker magics. It gives a vivid contrast to the others, who are so goody-goody, but seem malicious in small things. (Does anybody else think so? Or is it just the American way of talking that disagrees with my Finnish palate?) Oh well. I didn't really like SR - OK reading, but nowhere as good as The Black Gyphon or the Winds trilogy (Or LHM!) There was too much happening too fast, it doesn't seem realistic. Where were the artificers all the time? (I'm not sure if they've been mentioned in any of the previous books? My memory not being exactly good...) If there is to be a book about them, it shouldn't tie to the timeline of AotQ, it feels like. The difference between the settings is too drastic. (And why is poor Firesong in the wrong? I really feel sorry for him. What's the problem with intuitive magic? Even somebody in SR noted that intuition is only reasoning gone bone-deep.) I really liked Tremaine, though. Great characterization, and the plot there is lovely. And I liked the interaction between Firesong and An'desha. Yummy. It should be interesting to see what happens next. Wonder what way Storms and the Gryphon trilogy will connect? -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 08:21:46 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: TLAs Message-ID: <9509280821.AA10717-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > First off, I'm sure this is a FAQ, but please bear with me, as I > figured out all the other abbreviations on my own: what the devil is "IIRC"? "If I Remember Correctly" :-). Others include AFAIK "As far as I know", IMHO "In my humble/honest opinion", YMMV "Your mileage may vary", OTOH "On the other hand" and so on. Usually you can puzzle them out from context eventually - at least most of the time :-). -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 07:38:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vrondi/Web (was: RE: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory) Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > > IIRC, somewhere, Vanyel says that he never finished the Vrondi spell. He > > *wanted* to make them inform Herald-mages of other mages, but he never got to > > do that part. He only had time to make them detect and bug _every_ mage > > in Valdemar. The part about recognition of Herald-mages was never competed. Hmmm. I've just reread the Vanyel part of WoF. He says he did ask them to inform Herald-Mages and was intending, later, to make the mage in question light up so everyone could see him, just in case there wasn't a Herald-Mage in the vicinity (a serious problem after his death ;) And what *does* IIRC mean? ;) I\/ Catherine Osborne "I will not go down to I\/ Sundancer posterity talking bad I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu grammar." I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ --Disraeli ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:38:42 +0000 From: Alan Fleming To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Another Companion Thought Message-ID: <9509281258.aa19986-+AT+-relay-3.mail.demon.net> Cecile wrote: > misremembering, but Tylendel was not a full Herald at the time of > his death, was he? I thought he was just about to get his Whites, > which is another reason that it was surprising that the Death Bell > rang. If I remember correctly the Collegia allowed him to be buried > in full Whites _because_ the Bell had rung. So maybe he didn't have > the same "choice" offered to full Heralds, and was reincarnated as a > person rather than a Companion. I think it was for another reason. If the Death Bell runbg for Tylendel, he was being accorded the honours of a Herald. I personally feel those would extend to the afterlife as well as the Death Bell. He returned (everyone assumes there was no "Choice" in this - how do we know that? It's not stated anywhere!!!) because as Starwind said, there was unfinished business to complete. Not, IMHO, because he wasn't enough of a herald to be reincardnated as a Companion. Perhaps the Shadow-Lover gave him a three-way choice before Vanyel got a similar choice? It's not impossible. Alan. -- ______ \ __/___ Alan Fleming. \ \ / Work: Open to Offers :-) \/\ / Home: etrigan-+AT+-rhyme.demon.co.uk \/ and: etrigan-+AT+-cix.compulink.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:33:48 +0100 From: Ian MacDonald To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk, ism-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk Subject: what does IIRC mean Message-ID: <3067.199509281233-+AT+-k9.tardis.ed.ac.uk> I just worked it out "If I Remember correctly", I know this has been bugging for ages, so I thought I would explain it to everyone else since I have seen a few queries about what it means!!! ian < all of a sudden a whisper of sound occurs then the sound of a body hitting a keyboard. "Good thing we had darts", one of the white coated men said to the other as they dragged ian's body from the terminal.> < ism-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 07:35:41 -0400 From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509281135.HAA15913-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> >i > >On Tue, 26 Sep 1995, Melanie Dymond Harper wrote: >and what the heck is MOC????? Monarch's Own Companion -- the Companion of the MOH (Monarch's Own Herald). :> Dave (finally figured out that IIRC is "If I Recall Correctly"!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:59:11 +0100 From: Ian MacDonald To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Another Companion Thought Message-ID: <3289.199509281259-+AT+-k9.tardis.ed.ac.uk> testing please ignore (my mailer is doing something very strange and I can't work out why!) < all of a sudden a whisper of sound occurs then the sound of a body hitting a keyboard. "Good thing we had darts", one of the white coated men said to the other as they dragged ian's body from the terminal.> < ism-+AT+-tardis.ed.ac.uk > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:00:29 EST From: "Aphrael" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: >> > And didn't Savil say something about that when Andre asked her to check >> > out Vanyel's brand new powers in Magic's Promise? > >Sorry if I'm being dense, but who the hell is Andre in connection with >Vanyel? Isn't Andre in *other* books? *giggle* Oh my stars...can we say who's on first?....:) Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* I feel ready for a commitment. Thank God it requires two signitures in this state. -slightly modified line from _Dave's World_, 9/20/95 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:08:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Older Chosen Message-ID: > I doubt a younger more insecure person could have handled Sayvil as > well as Kero does. Not to mention that Sayvil/Savil would run roughshod over any "green" trainee. --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 08:27:44 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A couple of things. Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Jennifer S. Broekman wrote: > Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > >Second, about Gala repudiating Tylendel; _if_ what Tylendel did was > >unforgivable, why would Cymry continue supporting Skif after what he > >did? The story mentioned in Winds of Change, about Skif going in and > >killing the one who tricked him while he was working as a border > >guide. The one he killed the way his friends were killed, you know > >the story? > > Well, Tylendel had other ways of bringing the Leshara to justice, like > coming out of his own cocoon and telling Savil what they'd done, > instead of assuming that Heraldic intelligence was as good as what he > got directly from his brother. There really wasn't any way for Skif > to bring that traitor to justice other than to go out and administer > it himself, and I don't know that Cymry entirely approved of his > methods, once they caught him. Also, Skif was targetting the single > person who was responsible for the criminal act he was avenging, but > Tylendel was targetting not only the Leshara family, but all their > guests and servants as well. If he'd only gone after the one Leshara > who hired the mage who killed Staven, Gala might not have repudiated > him, but he abandoned all consideration for the innocents who were > going to be hurt by his revenge. > Good point jenneke. Also, Skif was acting during a state of conflict in a hostile area and "traditionally" different rules usually apply. Granted that his motives were personal as well as part of the conflict, it is a slightly different case than Tylendel's. Tylendel was targetting, as jenneke points out, the entire Leshara family, retainers, etc. which included mostly innocents, but also he was acting against _Valdemarans_ - his own people, although they were political rivals. That especially would lead to the breach of trust between the people and Heralds, had be lived and been given his Whites. Perhaps, he would have been given Whites but certainly NEVER, EVER assigned to a circuit or to teaching. Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:39:14 EST From: "Aphrael" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Inherited gifts Message-ID: >Yes, but the books also don't go into much detail about Talia's relatives >either. I wouldn't be suprised if she did have a Herald in the family >tree somewhere. A rouge aunt or uncle that nobody ever talks about >anymore because they're improper or a "bad influcence". That's a thought. Or maybe, like their former countrymen the Karsites, the expelled ( or worse ) children exhibiting "witch- powers." Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* I feel ready for a commitment. Thank God it requires two signitures in this state. -slightly modified line from _Dave's World_, 9/20/95 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 10:01:06 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Inherited gifts (spoiler for Winds books) Message-ID: <199509281401.KAA06246-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Gyrfalcon wrote: >On Mon, 25 Sep 1995 AnneR123-+AT+-aol.com wrote: >>Just wondering: >> Where did Talia get her Empathy? I'm pretty sure none of the books ever >>mention her having gifted relatives. Well, there are such things as mutations in RL, so I'd think that the occasional strong Gift could crop up out of nowhere, especially when it was needed... After all, I highly doubt that Griffon's relatives were also FireStarters, so why should Talia's relative have to be Empaths? >Yes, but the books also don't go into much detail about Talia's relatives >either. I wouldn't be suprised if she did have a Herald in the family >tree somewhere. A rouge aunt or uncle that nobody ever talks about >anymore because they're improper or a "bad influcence". I highly doubt it was a rouge aunt, much less a rouge uncle, since the Collegium would have known that the Holderkin didn't tell their children about Companion's Choice if any had been Chosen before. However, Empathy is a good Gift for a real priest, too, so maybe Talia has relatives who went into the priesthood. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 159 *********************************