MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 160 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Lifebonds by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 2) RE: LHM(SPOILER) by Gyrfalcon 3) RE: LHM(SPOILER) by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 4) Re: Older Chosen by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 5) Re: nyara's fertility by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 6) Re: Older Chosen by jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) 7) RE: LHM(SPOILER) by steph-+AT+-escher.mbi.ucla.edu (Stephanie Wukovitz) 8) Re: Inherited gifts (spoiler for Winds books) by Adrienne York 9) Orthographic note by Adrienne York 10) Names by Adrienne York 11) Re: Joe's Abilities (was RE: I'm back!) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 12) Re: Grove-Born tangent by "Sandy Haas" 13) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by Sunfalcon 14) Re: Vrondi/Web ( was RE: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory) by Debra Fran Baker 15) Re: Orthographic note by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 16) Re: Older Chosen by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 17) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by Amy Mason 18) Re: Older Chosen by Ina Faye-Lund 19) Re: Older Chosen by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 20) Re: Lifebonds by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 21) Re: LHM(SPOILER) by BreIvane-+AT+-aol.com 22) Re: Vrondi/Web ( was RE: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory) by BreIvane-+AT+-aol.com 23) Re: Lifebonds by RLGilb-+AT+-aol.com 24) Re: A couple of things. by Gjuka 25) RE: LHM(SPOILER) by Gjuka 26) Re: Joe's Abilities (was RE: I'm back!) by s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu 27) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 28) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu 29) Re: LHM(SPOILER) by "Helen M. Wilfehrt" 30) Re: Gods, Goddesses, etc. (WAS Re: Lots of things.) by Gjuka ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 10:07:23 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds Message-ID: <199509281407.KAA06273-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Kristin A. Ruhle wrote: >Adrienne York wrote: >>bear.) also, i remember misty saying that lifebonded could never decide to >>leave each other nor could they ever decide to be unforgiving about an >>argument or situation. if i can find this letter i will try to remember to >>post the approprate quotes. >Lifebonded also never can stay angry with one another for more than a few >hours - if the grievance isn't COMPLETELY forgiven in that time, it's not >a lifebond. One assumes that all of this applies only after the bond is acknowledged and accepted, however, since otherwise one would be forced to conclude that Talia/Dirk aren't lifebonded. (Talia left Dirk to go on the diplomatic mission to Hardorn, without resolving the misunderstandings and hard feelings between them.) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 10:16:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: > Oh my stars...can we say who's on first? I give up... Who? --Gyrfalcon Oh, I just love this game! =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:33:26 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509281433.AA064458806-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> >On Fri, 22 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > >> > And didn't Savil say something about that when Andre asked her to check >> > out Vanyel's brand new powers in Magic's Promise? > >Sorry if I'm being dense, but who the hell is Andre in connection with >Vanyel? Isn't Andre in *other* books? > >I\/ Catherine Osborne "I will not go down to >I\/ Sundancer posterity talking bad >I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu grammar." >I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ --Disraeli There is a Healer whose name is similar to Andre - but I can't remember his correct name. He was once Savil's lover long ago but now is one of her best friends. He occasionally was referred to as Andy. Helen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:46:27 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Older Chosen Message-ID: <199509281446.AA092249587-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> [snipping previous comments on Heralds Chosen later on in life - eg. Elcarth, Teren > >Well, Teren had to've been older than the average trainee, if he'd >been married, had two kids, and worked on the fishing boats before he >was Chosen... > >-jenneke That Herald who accompanied the Karsite priests from the border to Haven in SR also was Chosen late - he had been married and had a daughter (the engineering student). Remember he was Chosen after his wife had died in childbirth along with his second child. I can't seem to remember any character's name today.... But as to Heralds getting their Whites, the process does seem to vary with each individual as it probably should. Being a Herald would require a certain degree of maturity, knowledge, ability and experience. Younger Chosen would need more time to grow up & mature than Older Chosen. But they would probably also differ in how much schooling each requires - eg. Kris who had a lot of tutoring from early on while Sherrill could barely read and do mathematics. But can you imagine being a 20 y.o. Elcarth in the Orientation class with a bunch of 13-14 y.o. Chosen? Helen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 10:24:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: nyara's fertility Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Julie Vaux wrote: > Regarding Nyara's fertility - in addition to the points already made. > > One) she may have been sterile with Falconsbane for genetic reasons. > > His body was that of a modified human whereas Nyara is a > combination of Changechild and Human. I am presuming judging from > Nyara's appearance pre and post healing /change by need and the > goddess and from what we've been told that Nyara is not first generation > changechild and probably has a mixed ancestry for several generations. > Given Falconsbane's "delightful"habits she could be his granddaughter as > well as his daughter! Oh, wow, this could get really convoluted! > > Two) Falconsbane is no Healer or physician of any sort . > He may have been wrong ! Nyara may have reached puberty > but not be ovulating and also she may have been malnourished > which would inhibit fertility. > Falconsbane wrong? (sarcastic grin) We-ell, maybe just a little (ha-ha!)! I hadn't thought about the malnourishment/reduced fertility. Its also possible that Nyara, with her small amount of mage-gift, could have subconsciously suppressed her fertility? As a Changechild, would she have only been fertile during certain periods (like the mammalian estrus cycle), even tho sexual desire was "permanently programmed" (so to speak) into her. > Three) frankly I think they were all speculating or making > educated guesses and we'll just have to wait and see > if she and Skif decide to have children. > > Julie Magissa Vaux > Excellent points, Julie. I think (IMHO, of course) that you've "hit the nail on the head"(HtNOtH?), especially on point #3. Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:32:21 +0000 (GMT) From: jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Jerry Cullingford) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Older Chosen Message-ID: <9509281532.AA14655-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk> > I'm incoherent today, so don't mind me. Birthday and all, getting old, > etc. as time goes on, fewer and fewer book characters will be easy to > identify with, and it's sort of depressing (my dad had a real problem > with that when he turned 30...I'm 27 and getting that feeling already). > Fiance is turning 30 and I think I'm picking up his mood . It's not that bad :-). I've been 21 for the last 15 years, and have no intention of changing now :-). Even if I am up to radix 17.5 :-) :-). -- _|_ / | Jerry Cullingford jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk (Work) \_|_ jc-+AT+-selune.demon.co.uk (Home) \__/ Hemel Hempstead, UK jerry-+AT+-shell.portal.com (alternate) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 09:37:17 -0700 From: steph-+AT+-escher.mbi.ucla.edu (Stephanie Wukovitz) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509281637.AA03964-+AT+-escher.mbi.ucla.edu> THat would be *Andrel* (the healer). Heh yes, very similar to Andre :) Wonder if both characters are based on different aspects of oneof Misty's friends... -Stephanie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 14:40:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Inherited gifts (spoiler for Winds books) Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 1995 AnneR123-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 95-09-22 11:02:42 EDT, you write: > > >My understanding of just about anything is that it all comes from you genes > >which you inherit from your parents and relatives. This should apply to > >gifts as well. Look and Firesong and Elspeth; both are desendents of Vanyel > >and are very powerful mages. It doesn't seem to be coincidence that these > >things are carried on through the genes and its just that some generations > >are more true than others. Some directly inherit blond hair and some just > >carry it and give it to their children for example. > >Eric > > Just wondering: > Where did Talia get her Empathy? I'm pretty sure none of the books ever > mention her having gifted relatives. > > That one's been bugging me for a while now. > > Anne R Random mutation? In my biology class two years ago, we learned that when genes were copied they didn't always copy correctly, because of poor diet, raadiation, illness, overheating, and random chance. I feel like I just asked my mother to put terrible artwork on the refrigerator, and proudly display it to all her friends.) ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 14:45:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List Subject: Orthographic note Message-ID: I know this is somewhat miniscule but it's starting to bother me. People keep supposing that Talia had a rouge aunt or uncle, which would mean the poor relative was red. You mean rogue, which would make them a maverick or renegade. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 14:57:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List Subject: Names Message-ID: I'm sorry I started the Andre/Andrel/Andrew confusion and the Elcarth/Teren confusion. I am awful, terrible, evil, pitiful with names. Any name I say on any given day, in this list or in RL, may be wrong. If it's wrong, it's not intentional, it's just me. Just ignore it. It will go away. If this is incoherent, it's because I stayed up until 6:30 this morning. I was reading my French. I have to go take a Russian test now. Good bye. Wish me luck. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:07:52 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Joe's Abilities (was RE: I'm back!) Message-ID: <199509281907.PAA06810-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Mat Timmerman wrote: >Also, don't keep us in suspense, what's the Guardian reference? :) Tannim thinks something about how there aren't any Guardians in the area when he's thinking about the help he can call up to deal with Shar's challenge and the possible threat to Joe and his parents. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:30:36 EDT From: "Sandy Haas" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Grove-Born tangent Message-ID: <2DA76508CE-+AT+-rackham.umich.edu> > It may be that Quenten can see Gwena shining b/c he knows what a Guardian > Spirit is. It's always seemed to me that the Valdemaran mages are > pretty weak on other-planar creatures, except the Vrondi, which > someone mentions were discovered by a contemporary of Vanyel's (was it > Savil? It's been a long time since I've read MPromise - I really need > to buy it. Well, if the Heralds _could_ see the shine, I think that we'd > have heard it mentioned. It's likely that the C's would hide that though. > > Mat T. I think that the Heralds REALLY DON"T "get" what those Companions REALLY ARE. It seems like there are plenty of instances where the companions are taken for granted, discounted, I'm searching here for the right phrase. But to spiritual people OUTSIDE of Valdamar, they are almost revered, certainly more respected. I am thinking of the way the Hawkbrothers treated them. They would never even TALK about them without their presence, vs. some of the more careless way the Heralds treat them. i'm ducking cause i think i'm going to get flamed....does anyone ever get iced?? its awful warm for almost october!! Sandy Haas--yea, the one without a cool sign off--maybe I should run a contest for the best idea :} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:46:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Sunfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: > > > On Tue, 26 Sep 1995, Helen M. Wilfehrt wrote: > > > >Something interesting is that only Heralds and Hawkbrothers are able to see > > >vrondi, other mages can't. > > > > I always imagined that other mages just didn't pay attention to magic > > elementals who didn't seem all that important or powerful, of course > > depending upon their respective school. For example, eventhough Kethry > > doesn't mention them, it would seem likely she could have known about them. > > > > > > The Heralds/Herald-Mages and the Hawkbrothers almost seem to more likely > > use more subtle forms of Magic while other schools are more likely to use > > less subtle magics - it's seems in keeping that they would know of Vrondi. > > Likewise I see the White Winds mages as similar in philosophy to these > > other two. > > > > My 0.02 cents... > > > > Helen > > Nevertheless, Vanyel seems to have received a pretty thorough education with regard to dealing with other-planar beings. At one point (in Magic's Price, I believe), he calls up a sandaar (fire elemental), and later, when he was dealing with Learath's construct, he notes that there doesn't seem to be any taint of the abyssal (acchh! shades of D&D =) about it. Which of course opens up the following question: If Van knew about and was used to dealing with other planar creatures how could he not know the exact nature of his Companion? Clear skies, The Wordsmith of Irymar ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 16:33:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Debra Fran Baker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Cc: dfbaker-+AT+-panix.com (Debra Fran Baker) Subject: Re: Vrondi/Web ( was RE: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory) Message-ID: <199509282033.QAA22136-+AT+-panix.com> First: Hi. I was on the list for a while, then I stopped reading it, but I seem to be back. Second: As to why the vrondi don't bother Vanyel - they were programmed to check if a mage was a Herald or not. If so, they didn't bother that person. If not, well...It was a safeguard Van put in when he realized that there weren't any more Herald Mages coming up. I'll have to check my Winds books again, but I think that once Herald Mages were needed and therefore started again, the spell was broken. That way non-Herald mages could come in. Debra -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- * For its ways are ways of pleasantness and all its paths are peace. * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Debra Fran Baker dfbaker-+AT+-panix.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:53:39 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Orthographic note Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Sep 1995, Adrienne York wrote: > I know this is somewhat miniscule but it's starting to bother me. People > keep supposing that Talia had a rouge aunt or uncle, which would mean the > poor relative was red. You mean rogue, which would make them a maverick > or renegade. > Thank you, Adrienne! I hate to be thought a snob about things like that, and I understand about typos, and thinking faster that one types, etc., but some of the typos/misspellings especially when they are perpetuated in Replies. (although, if they lived in the mountains between Karse and Valdemar, some of her relatives COULD have been red, at least in the winter [:-) - ooooo, very, very bad, ouch, ouch, sorry!!] [I am SO glad this week is almost over!] Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 17:29:38 -0400 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Older Chosen Message-ID: <9509282129.AA02588-+AT+-water.waterw.com> > >And what about Rubrick??? >(There, that's all I'll say so this isn't a SW spoiler!) > >Seriously, tho...what happens when someone older gets Chosen? Not much >is said about their dependents? Interesting question. There's mentions here and there of Older Chosen, but not much said about what happens to their families. I suspect that this is a detail that ML hasn't really worked out for herself (not that it's all *that* important in the overall scheme of things with the books) >Is there some kind of "Herald's Village" >where the families move to, or perhaps the Herald's are assigned to >circuits that pass near their homes? (No, that doesn't make sense when I >think about Talia's training, hmmmm) Or do Companions choose adults that >_can_ leave those other responsibilities? Would you be willing to leave >your wife/husband/lover/children just because some white "horse" >whispered into your mind?? Teren thought it was enough. He left with his Companion, his wife turned their children over to his family, and (I think) she's now happily married to somebody else. (Sorry, I don't remember the citation for this, but it *is* in one of the Arrows books someplace) Jeanne Hedge jhedge-+AT+-water.waterw.com 75512.1214-+AT+-compuserve.com ================================================================ "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink..." --Samuel Taylor Coleridge, 'The Rime of the Ancient Mariner' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:32:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy Mason To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: On thursday 28th, Irymar wrote: > Nevertheless, Vanyel seems to have received a pretty thorough > education with regard to dealing with other-planar beings. At one point > (in Magic's Price, I believe), he calls up a sandaar (fire elemental), > and later, when he was dealing with Learath's construct, he notes that > there doesn't seem to be any taint of the abyssal (acchh! shades of D&D > =) about it. > Which of course opens up the following question: If Van knew > about and was used to dealing with other planar creatures how could he > not know the exact nature of his Companion? Interesting question, if I'm remember correctly, didn't the Companions try to hide from the Heralds exactly who they were? Didn't the Tayledras point out to Elspeth the aura that surrounded Gwena? She mentioned something (correct me if I'm wrong) that she thought it was just because of the magic that the C's use. The Tayledras then did not metion it further because they thought it was not there place to. Just me, Crysanthia :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 00:13:21 +0100 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Older Chosen Message-ID: <199509282313.2838.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:50:15 +0100, "Cecile S. Ueltschey" said: > And what about Rubrick??? > (There, that's all I'll say so this isn't a SW spoiler!) > Seriously, tho...what happens when someone older gets Chosen? Not > much is said about their dependents? Is there some kind of > "Herald's Village" where the families move to, or perhaps the > Herald's are assigned to circuits that pass near their homes? (No, > that doesn't make sense when I think about Talia's training, hmmmm) > Or do Companions choose adults that _can_ leave those other > responsibilities? Would you be willing to leave your > wife/husband/lover/children just because some white "horse" > whispered into your mind?? What about Heralds that marry after they > are Heralds (other than life-bonded or Herald-Herald relationships)? Remember Keren? Who was married, with two children? His wife left, and his family took care of the children. He thought he loved her, but found that his Companion was more worth. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 20:19:18 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Older Chosen Message-ID: <199509290019.UAA07535-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Ina Faye-Lund wrote: >Remember Keren? Who was married, with two children? His wife left, >and his family took care of the children. He thought he loved her, >but found that his Companion was more worth. *Teren*, not Keren. Keren is his twin sister, who was Chosen at the normal age, and already lifebonded to Ylsa and in Whites before Teren was Chosen. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 20:24:27 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds Message-ID: <199509290024.UAA07551-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Catherine Osborne wrote: >Before discussing Firesong&An'desha's relationship, I *strongly* suggest >reading SR. That's *very* strongly. Evidence in there moves that >particular debate into the realm of irrelevancy. Agreed. Speaking of SR and lifebonds, in SR there's a bit that hinges on the idea that there's a lifebond out there for everyone, if only you could live long enough/meet enough people/etc. Does anyone else think this is unlikely to be true? Personally, I don't think the rarity of lifebonds comes simply from some random number generator that spits out when and where you and your lifebonded are going to be born and typically results in there being a century or a continent between you... -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 04:10:27 -0400 From: BreIvane-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <950929041025_32284118-+AT+-mail02.mail.aol.com> >There is a Healer whose name is similar to Andre - but I can't remember his >correct name. He was once Savil's lover long ago but now is one of her >best friends. He occasionally was referred to as Andy. >Helen The healer that worked on Vanyel's blasted channels was named "Andrel" Savil called him "Andy" for short. "Andre" is Diana Tregarde's Vampiric boyfriend. Bre Ivane Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 04:10:43 -0400 From: BreIvane-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vrondi/Web ( was RE: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory) Message-ID: <950929041042_32284173-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 95-09-28 17:25:03 EDT, you write: >Second: As to why the vrondi don't bother Vanyel - they were programmed >to check if a mage was a Herald or not. If so, they didn't bother that >person. If not, well...It was a safeguard Van put in when he realized >that there weren't any more Herald Mages coming up. Yes they were ASKED to check for Mages Heraldic or not....if the person did not give the confermation they were told to inform a Herald-Mage and was to keep an eye on them...which, to someone with the mage gift, would feel like they were constantly being watched...in return for providing this service they were allowed to take energy from the WEB which was connected to the Heartstone in Valdemar. >I'll have to check my Winds books again, but I think that once Herald >Mages were needed and therefore started again, the spell was broken. >That way non-Herald mages could come in. > >Debra The spell was never broken....once they (the envoy from Tayledras...including Elspeth and Skif) "tried" to get back to Valdemar...they were snatched up to the forrest of Sorrows....after which Vanyel took the Spell down...because there was no longer a need for it....If it was "broken" it probably would have had the same effect on the Heralds as when the Node dropped into place under Haven. Headaches all around.... ;-) Bre Ivane Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 04:36:19 -0400 From: RLGilb-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds Message-ID: <950929043618_32288874-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> I have to agree with you on the SR. It was very good. I read it in two days, Sorry Work and Other obligations take away any real leisure days. One thing I would like to have more of and that is better descriptions of the magic and gifts that are used. Maybe better description of settings too. Better not go much farther or I'll give it all a way. To all those who haven't read it, ENJOY. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 23:53:18 -0800 From: Gjuka To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A couple of things. Message-ID: <9509290643.AA21521-+AT+-baker> , about Gala repudiating Tylendel; _if_ what Tylendel did was >unforgivable, why would Cymry continue supporting Skif after what he >did? The story mentioned in Winds of Change, about Skif going in and >killing the one who tricked him while he was working as a border >guide. The one he killed the way his friends were killed, you know >the story? > >So, the conclusion is, Companions _are_ reincarnated Heralds, and Gala >was the one who did a mistake >IFL What Tylendel did wasn't considered "unforgivable". The death bell tolled for him even though he was only a trainee and had been repudated by Gala. That doesn't mean Gala was wrong either, just that, by his actions, Tylendel was no longer a Herald. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 00:14:56 -0800 From: Gjuka To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <9509290705.AA21783-+AT+-baker> > >There is a Healer whose name is similar to Andre - but I can't remember his >correct name. He was once Savil's lover long ago but now is one of her >best friends. He occasionally was referred to as Andy. > >Helen I believe his name is Andrel? Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 21:30:19 -0500 (EST) From: s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Joe's Abilities (was RE: I'm back!) Message-ID: you mentioned earlier gala and tylendel. i think she may have repudiated him to save his life. if she didnt do it he probably would have died anyway when she suicided. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:48:15 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: <199509290248.WAA08070-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com wrote: >Has anyone noted the parallels between the Shin'a'in Star-Eyed and the >Karsite Sunlord? They are equal and opposite _pairs_ (sun=day >star=night).... This parallel can also be drawn between the Christian Trinity and the Triple Goddess, just fyi. Such parallels don't necessarily imply an innate relationship between the deities. It could just be that human beings perceive things better this way... > Both have their own priesthood, and a distiction >between the mages and the priests of the clergy (Kal'endral= Priest; >Shaman= Mage).. I don't think all Shaman are mages, even if all MageGifted Shin'a'in are shaman. Also, note that the Star-Eyed is also the Goddess of the Tayledras, and the Kaled'a'in, and they don't make the distinction you're pointing to. Also, Kal'endral aren't really priests in the usual sense. Shaman perform all of the tasks of ministering to the people and performing rituals and so on. Kal'enedral have a stronger link to a particular aspect of the Star-Eyed than the average Shin'a'in, but they aren't priests in any other sense. >I think this is a lil too convenient to overlook, hmm? I think it's at least as likely to be caused by the fact that there are only so many ways of dividing the universe that seem to make sense to the human mind that you're bound to get overlaps than any real relationship between the deities, beyond "all the gods are one God and all the goddesses one Goddess." -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 21:32:55 -0500 (EST) From: s003yms-+AT+-desire.wright.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Sep 1995, Helen M. Wilfehrt wrote: > >Something interesting is that only Heralds and Hawkbrothers are able to see > >vrondi, other mages can't. > > I always imagined that other mages just didn't pay attention to magic > elementals who didn't seem all that important or powerful, of course > depending upon their respective school. For example, eventhough Kethry > doesn't mention them, it would seem likely she could have known about them. > > > The Heralds/Herald-Mages and the Hawkbrothers almost seem to more likely > use more subtle forms of Magic while other schools are more likely to use > less subtle magics - it's seems in keeping that they would know of Vrondi. > Likewise I see the White Winds mages as similar in philosophy to these > other two. > > My 0.02 cents... > > Helen > > the Karasites also have their "tell me true" spell it is their version ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 10:02:32 -0500 From: "Helen M. Wilfehrt" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: LHM(SPOILER) Message-ID: <199509290300.AA177163623-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> >Helen M. Wilfehrt wrote: >>his internship?? Remember how the Heralds quarters are usually rather >>empty - like Talia's tower where none of her other neighbors were in when >>she moved into her place. It would seem quite possible that the great >>majority of Heralds are out patrolling Valdemar with only a small >>percentage being always around the Collegium. > >I agree that the majority of Heralds aren't at Haven for anything >other than major celebrations like Talia's wedding and the ceremony of >crowning the Heir, but I thought Talia's tower was empty because there >were no other Heralds who lived there at all, due to the relatively >small number of Heralds and the tower's out of the way location and >lack of private facilities... > >-jenneke > I believed that she mentioned that, maybe early in Arrow's Flight, she hadn't had to share that area's bathroom yet because the other occupants hadn't been in Haven recently. But it's somewhat foggy..... Helen h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 21:12:24 -0800 From: Gjuka To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Gods, Goddesses, etc. (WAS Re: Lots of things.) Message-ID: <9509290403.AA19318-+AT+-baker> >I don't really want to get into a ("real life") religious beliefs >argument or, Havens forbid, a flame war (everyone has a right to their >own beliefs, what follows is purely in an academic vein), but in my >experience with the >literature and archeology of the Middle East, most of the "neighboring >tribes" were polytheistic and patriarchal. Abram and his father Terah >were from the _city_ of Ur of the Chaldees which had several cults of a >pantheon of gods and goddesses, with major and minor temples of the State >religion. Most of the solely goddess-centered religions that I know of >were from farther north (present day Turkey, the Caucasus, etc.). Also, >many of the references in Genesis to "other religions" were primarily to >the worship of Baal (who was male). Interestingly enough, many of the >pagan religions in the area have, as part of their creation myth, the >slaying of a monster by a hero to create the earth. Usually this >god-hero is male, and the earth-monster is female. It would be >interesting to discover what the preceeding people's religions were. But >this would definately be pre-history AND predate many of the Bible >stories by several centuries. > >Sorry to get off thread, here. I don't get much chance to discuss things >like that anymore! > >Bright the day (?) > >Cecile just couldnt resist recomending a book. It has lots of info about the overthrow of goddess religions by patriarichal ones and transformations of female dieties into male ones. it also talks about god/heros that either rape or slay female gods, who are then either subservient to the god or, obviously, dead. it's called "when god was a woman" by merlin stone. sorry to wander so far, colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 160 *********************************