MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 163 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by "Sanna Koulu" 2) Re: Fantasy by "Sanna Koulu" 3) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by Ned 4) Choosing Kero by Vivian Choh 5) Holderkin (was Lots of Things) by KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU 7) Re: Lifebonds by Gjuka 8) Re: Tylendal by Gjuka 9) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by PTJ-+AT+-badger.demon.co.uk (Philip Johnson) 10) Re: Grove-Born tangent by "Helen M. Wilfehrt" 11) Re: Lots of things. by Gyrfalcon 12) Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans by Gjuka 13) Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory by Gjuka 14) Re: Joe's Abilities (was RE: I'm back!) by Gjuka 15) Re: Lifebonds by Gjuka 16) RE: Lifebonds by Gjuka 17) Shamans and Priests (was Re: Storm Warning (God question)) by Gyrfalcon 18) Re: Older Chosen by Adrienne York 19) Re: Lots of things. by Adrienne York 20) Re: Tylendal by Adrienne York 21) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by Adrienne York 22) RE: Lifebonds by Sanna Koulu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:23:48 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: <1076FD63C8D-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, Helen M. Wilfehrt wrote: > >On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Jennifer S. Broekman wrote: > > > >> people and performing rituals and so on. Kal'enedral have a stronger > >> link to a particular aspect of the Star-Eyed than the average > >> Shin'a'in, but they aren't priests in any other sense. > > > >Tell that to Tarma. Check out book 1 of V&H. When Tarma is talking to > >a priest just before she encounters Thalkarsh (sp?), the demon, again, > >and Misty says something to the effect of: Kethry was enjoying watching > >this often-hidden side of Tarma, for most people didn't know that as well > >as being a fully trained warrior, she was also a priest. I don't have > >the book, so I can't look up the exact quote. But I definitely remember > >that. > > > Another reference to this is when Tarma calls upon the Star-Eyed to heal > Kethry. It was her right as a priest to call upon the Star-Eyed asking for > a life. Since most of what we see of the Kal'enedral is Tarma, and it's > directly sayed that Tarma doesn't take advantage of the benefits of the > priest aspects of being Sword-Sworn, it's hard to classify the entire group > based upon one individual. Also when Leslac gets jailed for 30 days, for 'mocking Tarma's religion', Tarma says something like:"...hell, if I cared to claim the priestly aspects of the goddess-bond, I'd be [the Sunhawks' Healer- priest's] technical equal". (can't remember the exact quote). It seems like the Kal'enedral are also _socially_ seen as priests (in addition to their closeness to the Goddess), though Tarma doesn't care for that side of it. On the other hand, when the Star-Eyed speaks to Tarma and Roald, She definitely equates the Heralds with the Sword-Sworn. They serve the same functions (?), and the Heralds aren't any kind of priests. Would this mean that though the Sword-Sworn are a kind of a priesthood, they concentrate more on the 'Heraldic' side of the job (guarding the borders, keeping the peace between clans etc.) ? -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:40:30 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fantasy Message-ID: <107B7976ACE-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> I can't remember any really suitable stuff, but some maybe-useful books include _Don't Tell the Grown-ups_ by Alison Lurie (it's about children's literature, but also includes Tolkien and T. H. White among others) and LeGuin's _Language of the Night_, though that is mostly about her own writing (= SF&F). Hope this helps... -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 08:50:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Ned To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Sep 1995 GERKEJ-+AT+-minnie.hollins.edu wrote: > Sorry, have that book on hand and found this quote from the scene you are > talking about: > "...yet she[Tarma] had been quoting fully as many learned tomes as the > priest-to his evident delight and Kethry's mild surprise. It would appear > that service as a Sworn One did not exclude knowleade as a possible area of > combat. Kethry had long known that Tarma was literate, and in more then one > language, but she had never before guessed that her partner was so erudite." > In case you are wondering erudite means "learned or scholarly." I think this > pretty much clears up the idea of Tarma as a priest, I would think that if she > was Kethry would have known by this time. > Jennie(Who also does not have a cool signoff, tried to make one, but the codes > didn't work. :() Yes, but the whole thing is resolved in Oathbreakers. Remember that the ceremony to declare someone an oathbreaker requires a Mage, a Priest, and an Honest Man of the people, each who has been harmed by the broken oaths. This trio was Kethry, for the mage; Jadrek, for the honest man; and Tarma, for the priest. Zhai'helleva Ned > Ned Adams aka S. Baldrick Sometimes it is better to light a sbaldric-+AT+-roanoke.infi.net flamethrower than to curse the darkness (540) 890-0212 (T. Pratchett) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 20:20:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Vivian Choh To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Choosing Kero Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: [somebody else's quote snipped re: Kero's skills] > All of which point, at least to me, to the reason Kero was Chosen where > and when she was. Her skills were somewhat unique in Valdemar, also > she's the one who reminded Rethwellan of their obligation to Valdemar, > plus the fact that she brought an entire troop of trained fighters > (and eventually, mages) with her. She also had the mindspeaking Gift, > so she "qualified" as a Herald. > > Heralds are Chosen where and when they are needed. Remember the tag Hmmm...I always thought that it was more Kero's morals/ethics that got her chosen because of the hemming and hawing of Eldan's companion Ratha(?). It was when Ratha was trying to discourage Eldan from falling in love? with Kero (actually what WAS Ratha trying to accomplish? Did he really expect Eldan to de/un-fall in love with Kero?). Eldan had said that he wanted to get her up to Valdemar, and Ratha said something like, if he got her up there, she just might -- (then cut off the thought). I thought that the cut off thought was that Kero would be chosen. If it's not, what do you think the cut-off thought was? Vivian Choh bi189-+AT+-torfree.net v.choh-+AT+-utoronto.ca "I am all that I claim to be. I simply have not claimed all that I am." - M. Lackey, "Oathbreakers" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 10:54:43 -0400 From: KJohn20849-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Holderkin (was Lots of Things) Message-ID: <950930105442_113081182-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 95-09-29 17:55:35 EDT, Ina writes: >I was wondering...has anybody else noticed, while the Holderkin has >certain strict rules about women, the one who represents them in the >Council when Taila becomes a Herald, is female. Anybody got any >thoughts? When I read that, I assumed that the council rep (sorry, her name escapes me at the moment) represented a geographical area which just happened to contain the Holderkin. If the council members are elected, the Holderkin may not have a large enough voter base to control the direction of elections. However, I do not think they are elected, I believe that they are appointed, and since the Holderkin want to have very little to do with outsiders, it would be difficult if not impossible to find one willing to leave the Holds and represent the district as a whole. Just my humble opinion. Kathy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:22:14 -0400 (EDT) From: GERKEJ-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: <950930122215.20209468-+AT+-MINNIE.HOLLINS.EDU> > Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 14:02:39 +0100 > Message-Id: > Errors-To: lackey-owner-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk > Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk > Originator: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk > Sender: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk > Precedence: bulk > From: Ned > To: gerkej-+AT+-minnie.hollins.edu > Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) > X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > X-Comment: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List > > On Sat, 30 Sep 1995 GERKEJ-+AT+-minnie.hollins.edu wrote: > >> Sorry, have that book on hand and found this quote from the scene you are >> talking about: >> "...yet she[Tarma] had been quoting fully as many learned tomes as the >> priest-to his evident delight and Kethry's mild surprise. It would appear >> that service as a Sworn One did not exclude knowleade as a possible area of >> combat. Kethry had long known that Tarma was literate, and in more then one >> language, but she had never before guessed that her partner was so erudite." >> In case you are wondering erudite means "learned or scholarly." I think this >> pretty much clears up the idea of Tarma as a priest, I would think that if she >> was Kethry would have known by this time. >> Jennie(Who also does not have a cool signoff, tried to make one, but the codes >> didn't work. :() Ned said: > Yes, but the whole thing is resolved in Oathbreakers. Remember that the > ceremony to declare someone an oathbreaker requires a Mage, a Priest, and > an Honest Man of the people, each who has been harmed by the broken > oaths. This trio was Kethry, for the mage; Jadrek, for the honest man; > and Tarma, for the priest. > > Zhai'helleva Okay, okay, you are right. :) I guess I didn't think about that, I just think it is unusual that Tarma didn't tell Kethrey about the other side of the Sword Sworn. Jennie :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 23:21:58 -0800 From: Gjuka To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds Message-ID: <9509290612.AA21251-+AT+-baker> >> Firesong and An'desha are not actually a lifebonded pair. Other pairs >> for your consideration: Selenay/Daren, Kerowyn/Eldan, Kethry/Jadrek, > >Kethry and Jadrek weren't lifebonded. They were just madly in love. >Remember, Jadrek's been dead for some time before Kero was born, but >Kethry's still around, and there's no indication she went mad with grief >the way Keren did when Ysla died. Misty said that Kero and Elden wern't lifebonded in a newsletter somewhere (I really do have to find these things so I can give direct quotes), but she also said that Selenay and Daren were lifebonded. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 00:26:00 -0800 From: Gjuka To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendal Message-ID: <9509290716.AA21871-+AT+-baker> >Has anyone else noticed that Tylendal states on page 143 in Magic's >Pawn that he had all his channels blasted open and that is the reason >for his extraordinary number of gifts? I find this fact pretty >interesting when you take into account what happened to Vanyel. I >think that the reason Vanyel's channels got blasted open was that he >had to take 'Lendal's place in the structure of things. >David A lot of the things that happened to Vanyel and Tylendel also happen to Vanyel and Stephen. Like the hand massage for cramped fingers, or the talk about Heraldic duty. Its great fun to try to find them all. It's as if it's all being replayed, only in reverse. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 15:04:02 GMT From: PTJ-+AT+-badger.demon.co.uk (Philip Johnson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: <35304-+AT+-badger.demon.co.uk> In message <199509290248.WAA08070-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk writes: > > > I don't think all Shaman are mages, even if all MageGifted Shin'a'in > are shaman. Also, note that the Star-Eyed is also the Goddess of the > Tayledras, and the Kaled'a'in, and they don't make the distinction > you're pointing to. Also, Kal'endral aren't really priests in the > usual sense. Shaman perform all of the tasks of ministering to the > people and performing rituals and so on. Kal'enedral have a stronger > link to a particular aspect of the Star-Eyed than the average > Shin'a'in, but they aren't priests in any other sense. > I beg to differ onnthat last point. In Oath breakers, just before Tarma and Kethry go off to look for Idra, Tarma is telling Kethry about Leacey (singer of *that* song) being thrown in the local jail for blasphemy and sacreligious mockery. It was another priestess who had blown the whistle on Leslac, and Tarma says:- "[Tresti] knows what Kal'enedral means. Hellfire. we're technically equals, if I wanted to claim the priestly aspects that go with the Goddess-bond". I take this to mean that Kal'enadral *can* function as priests, that it may be that some of them routinely do so, but that in practice the one with whom we are most familioar, does not. Philip -- Philip Johnson 'Never do for yourself what you can con an expert into doing for you' Naismith: 'On War' 'A rational government wouldn't allow him possession of a pocket-knife, let alone a space fleet.' Cordelia, Countess Vorkosigan: 'On Naismith' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 10:02:34 -0500 From: "Helen M. Wilfehrt" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Grove-Born tangent Message-ID: <199509290300.AA177313626-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> >> It may be that Quenten can see Gwena shining b/c he knows what a Guardian >> Spirit is. It's always seemed to me that the Valdemaran mages are >> pretty weak on other-planar creatures, except the Vrondi, which >> someone mentions were discovered by a contemporary of Vanyel's (was it >> Savil? It's been a long time since I've read MPromise - I really need >> to buy it. Well, if the Heralds _could_ see the shine, I think that we'd >> have heard it mentioned. It's likely that the C's would hide that though. >> >> Mat T. > >I think that the Heralds REALLY DON"T "get" what those Companions >REALLY ARE. It seems like there are plenty of instances where the >companions are taken for granted, discounted, I'm searching here for >the right phrase. But to spiritual people OUTSIDE of Valdamar, they >are almost revered, certainly more respected. I am thinking of the >way the Hawkbrothers treated them. They would never even TALK about >them without their presence, vs. some of the more careless way the >Heralds treat them. >i'm ducking cause i think i'm going to get flamed....does anyone ever >get iced?? its awful warm for almost october!! > >Sandy Haas--yea, the one without a cool sign off--maybe I should run >a contest for the best idea :} > In SW when Ulrich mentioned the possibility that Companions were reincarnated Heralds to Rubrik, Rubrik acted like that was a major revelation. I have a feeling that the Companions discouraged consideration of this possibility by Heralds just like they did about magic before Elspeth. I wonder how long Rubrik actually remembered this possibility or did his Companion foster forgetfulness of this new revelation too. But people outside of Valdemar don't have this restriction so of course some see the "Guardian Spirit" beneath their appearances. It seemed that sometimes the Companions in question - like Gwena with Quentin - find the situation somewhat amusing considering the comments directed to Quentin from Gwena (?). Helen h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 13:34:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > > I was wondering...has anybody else noticed, while the Holderkin has > certain strict rules about women, the one who represents them in the > Council when Taila becomes a Herald, is female. Anybody got any > thoughts? > > IFL > The council member from the Karsite border area was a female. But she didn't just represent the Holderkin, just the area. Including the "Normal" villages and towns around there. --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 23:08:45 -0800 From: Gjuka To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans Message-ID: <9509290559.AA21100-+AT+-baker> > >Also, I'm sure I'm not the only ML fan who is most definitely not a >horror fan. I haven't read any of the Di Tregarde books for this >reason. (I've only ever read one book which I consider horror, and >that was only because the first few in the series were really good and >*not* horror (Tanya Huff's Blood series).) > >-jenneke > > The Diana Tregard books are a lot like the Tanya Huff books, although I like Diana better. In fact, Children of The Night and Blood Price are VERY similar. I read them quite close together and got confused. For instance, in Children Diana is the romance novelist, not the vampire. I think you'd like them. They're not really any more "horror" than Misty's Serrated Edge books. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 23:37:35 -0800 From: Gjuka To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Wacky Monarch's Own Theory Message-ID: <9509290628.AA21372-+AT+-baker> >> >> Wasn't Hulda consistently using illusion to maintain a changed >>appearance? They never specifically SAY that the disguise is magical, so it >>could have been physical...or it might be that MAINTAINING magic that was >>cast outside Valdemar won't attract vrondi (i.e., it is the ritual of >>starting a spell that they notice, not the flow of magic). >> >> Dave > >Why would Hulda need a disguise if no one knew what she was supposed to >look like? Remember, the one person who would have known what she looked >like, Selenay's husband -whose name escapes me at the moment, was already >dead when she showed up. > >-Helen I think Dave might have been refering to the fact that when we meet Hulda again years later her appearance has changed dramatically (young, beautiful, ext...). However, if magic were used to alter her appearance outside of Valdemar, the Vrondi wouldn't bother her. It is obvious that she can change her appearance because it isn't possible for her to be as young as she was with Ancor. Like Falcon's Bane or Leareth perhaps? Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 23:42:52 -0800 From: Gjuka To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Joe's Abilities (was RE: I'm back!) Message-ID: <9509290633.AA21398-+AT+-baker> > >But Di already does tie in.:-) Aside from the reference in _Chrome >Circle_ to the author he met, I have the feeling that the witch whose >fight with a sorceress introduced Tannim to the world of magic could >easily be Di or one of her friends. And I picked up a reference to >Guardians in _Born to Run_ today... > >-jenneke > Tannim is the georgous guy with green eyes at the high school dance in Jinx High. He sorta gets caught in the crossfire and the incident is mentioned in one of the Serrated Edge books as a memory. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 23:27:44 -0800 From: Gjuka To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds Message-ID: <9509290618.AA21305-+AT+-baker> I also forget >Talia's situation, by wasn't there something funny with her and Dirk when >she first met him, too? > > >Vivian Choh bi189-+AT+-torfree.net Dirk was the first herald that Talia ever saw on her way to Haven. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 00:01:00 -0800 From: Gjuka To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lifebonds Message-ID: <9509290651.AA21657-+AT+-baker> > >> >if they did this it might put strain on the relationship if it wasnt one >of equals but if the more "stable" dominant partner came back as a >companion and the weaker as the herald it would make sense....outside of >tylendel tho i dont remember any bonded coming back but vanyel was still >alive then so he had reason to come back Where did we get the idea that there was a "weaker" or a "stronger" partner in a lifebonded pair? I was given the idea that lifebonds happened when two peaple needed each other to be stable. Give and take rather than parisite. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 13:43:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Gyrfalcon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Shamans and Priests (was Re: Storm Warning (God question)) Message-ID: Well while on the subject of the Star-Eyed's priests, shamans and mages. The Kal'enedral are priests of the Goddess, as are the shamans. A Shin'a'in with mage gift who wishes to stay on the plains follows the path of the shaman, goes out to the Hawkbrothers, or has his or her gift burned out. The Kal'enedral are priests, but without the mage gift to draw on. All of their mystical energy comes from an outside spiritual force. --Gyrfalcon =======================msowers-+AT+-menger.eecs.stevens-tech.edu=================== Magic still exists. We have only to reach out and touch it, it is a part of the very fabric of the world. When our belief of magic completely dies this universe shall die. Because that magic; Hope, Dreams, Love, Beauty, Wonder, Belief, and Discovery are what make us a people. They are all part of a great Art whose workings are still a mystery but whose applications can be seen every day. If we ever lose the Art mankind shall not last the day. Let the magic that is in us roam free in our work, play, in each other, and most of all in ourselves. Let it roam free or it will die. ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 15:05:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Older Chosen Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: (snip Ina's comments and some of Cecile's) > Heralds are Chosen where and when they are needed. Remember the tag > about the Gifts "showing up just before they are needed"? Maybe the > "older Chosen" are selected because their SKILLs are needed as much or > more than their Gift? I think that Cecile's point would certainly hold true in Shavri's case. In fact, it was undoubtedly the *only* reason she was chosen. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 15:09:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Ina Faye-Lund wrote: > > I was wondering...has anybody else noticed, while the Holderkin has > certain strict rules about women, the one who represents them in the > Council when Taila becomes a Herald, is female. Anybody got any > thoughts? > > IFL IIRC, the woman in question represented an entire district, of which the Holderkin were only in the section closest to Karse. Frankly, I would think the Holderkin wouldn't participate at all in their national government, unless and until it intrudes on their way of life. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 15:21:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendal Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, Ned wrote: (snip of a long discussion between Ned and Dave, which was much more on topic than my next comment) > that he even wanted to in the first place! One example from real life > that illustrates this is if you were in a serious relationship with your > SO, and you also had a very good friend of the opposite sex, would you > try to hide this relationship from your SO? Wouldn't trying to hide this > show that you possibly aren't as committed to your SO as you thought? > Point 1: Tylendel would never once have thought of hiding any close friends from the opposite sex. I realize you were just trying to provide an example, but I wanted to point out that it wouldn't necessarily apply to everyone, not even the people you are discussing. Point 2: An'desha (sp?) kept his friendship with Karl a secret from Firesong for a while in SW, and while people have told me they have problems in SR (which I don't want to hear more about), my point is, that at the time, An'desha was quite close to Firesong. And he felt that he didn't need to bring this up, as they were in the middle of the national emergency, he was recovering from being taken over the past several decades, he was learning magery, and he really didn't need something else to fight with Firesong about. So there are instances when you might want to hide things from the people you love. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 15:31:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, Sanna Koulu wrote: (snip of a long discussion where people are agreeing with me that Tarma is a priest) > On the other hand, when the Star-Eyed speaks to Tarma and Roald, She > definitely equates the Heralds with the Sword-Sworn. They serve the > same functions (?), and the Heralds aren't any kind of priests. Would > this mean that though the Sword-Sworn are a kind of a priesthood, > they concentrate more on the 'Heraldic' side of the job (guarding the > borders, keeping the peace between clans etc.) ? > > > -Seanna > I think you could make an argument that the Heralds are, at least, Gods-chosen. Remember how King Valdemar created them? I also think that the "Heraldic" duties are in no way incompatible with the duties of a priest. Think of the various orders of the Catholic church, there are teaching orders, healing orders, judicial orders, etc. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:06:35 EET From: Sanna Koulu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lifebonds Message-ID: <134284D2FB6-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> Just a thought: are there any powerful, evil mages who are lifebonded? It seems like they are definitely in need of someone sane to lean on. Does lifebonding have anything to do with being a _good_ person? It is stated that Heralds are more often bonded than normal people - is that _just_ because they're Gifted? -Seanna ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 163 *********************************