MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 164 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: A couple of things. by Sarah Stock 2) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 3) Re: Shamans and Priests (was Re: Storm Warning (God question)) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 4) Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans by "David K. Storrs" 5) Re: Lots of things. by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 6) Re: Holderkin (was Lots of Things) by "Helen M. Wilfehrt" 7) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 8) RE: Tylendal by Joanna Hilken 9) Re: A couple of things. by Ina Faye-Lund 10) Huff by Vivian Choh 11) Re: Lifebonds by "Tarja Rainio" 12) Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 13) Re: Lifebonds by Ina Faye-Lund 14) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by Catherine Osborne 15) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by "Thomas, Daria" 16) Re: Choosing Kero by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 17) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) 18) Holderkin by "Croaker" 19) RE: Lifebonds by Amy Mason 20) Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans by EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com 21) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 22) RE: Lifebonds by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 23) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 24) Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 25) RE: Lifebonds (SPOILER (?) for Mage-winds/storms) by "Sanna Koulu" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:38:55 +1200 From: Sarah Stock To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A couple of things. Message-ID: <199510012051.JAA15718-+AT+-ftp.paradigm.co.nz> > , about Gala repudiating Tylendel; _if_ what Tylendel did was > >unforgivable, why would Cymry continue supporting Skif after what he > >did? The story mentioned in Winds of Change, about Skif going in and > >killing the one who tricked him while he was working as a border > >guide. The one he killed the way his friends were killed, you know > >the story? > > > >So, the conclusion is, Companions _are_ reincarnated Heralds, and Gala > >was the one who did a mistake > >IFL I was thinking the other day about Gala's decision. I wonder if maybe Gala thought the repudiating 'Lendel was the best of two evils. IE She knew that she would have to try to take on the wrysa, and that she wouldn't survive. So, 'Lendel either gets repudiated or feels Gala die. Myabe Gala decided that the repudiation had a chance of shocking 'Lendel out of his madness, whereas feeling her death at the hands of his own creatures, could only push him further in. So, while Gala made lots of mistakes before, repudiating 'Lendel may not have been such a mistake as a choice forced upon her. What do you guys think? Sarah ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 19:55:57 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: <199510012355.TAA09724-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> William Jones wrote: >Arrows Fall) Astera=star=star-eyed... Kero's goddess had three >aspects, a wild one, a maiden, and an old lady (which was incidently ^^^^^^^^^^^ Agnoma was a crone. "Old lady" is just a *little* disrespectful...:-) >designated by the snowflake, and the Star-Eyed's crone is of the north >wind...) The Christian archangel associated with Death is also the one associated with the North. Does this mean that Misty stole from Christian mysticism? Hell no, it means that we're all in the northern hemispheres of our worlds and associate "north" with "cold" and "dark" and "frozen" and "not moving" and "death". > and Need refers to a male and female twian.. *Twins*, plural. Need's deities are a pair of male twins and a pair of female twins. >... I'm >pretty much conviced that there are only two dieties in Velgarth.. *Mage Storms Spoiler Alert* If there are only two, and Vkandis and the Star-Eyed are on the same side (and there's pretty hard evidence of it), why would someone as knowledgeable as Ulrich think that there might be a deity on the Empire's side who would go head-to-head with Vkandis if Vkandis started throwing ligtening bolts around? -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 20:10:23 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Shamans and Priests (was Re: Storm Warning (God question)) Message-ID: <199510020010.UAA09730-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Gyrfalcon wrote: >Well while on the subject of the Star-Eyed's priests, shamans and mages. >The Kal'enedral are priests of the Goddess, as are the shamans. A The Kal'enedral have a Goddess-bond, as do the shamans, but that doesn't automatically make them priests. See my other posting for what I think makes a priest and why the Kal'enedral don't qualify. >Shin'a'in with mage gift who wishes to stay on the plains follows the >path of the shaman, goes out to the Hawkbrothers, or has his or her gift >burned out. The Kal'enedral are priests, but without the mage gift to >draw on. All of their mystical energy comes from an outside spiritual >force. I think it's pretty conclusively stated that not all shamans are also mages, even though all Shin'a'in mages who stay with the tribes and don't choose to have their Gift burned out are shamans. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares, and like that. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 17:38:33 -0400 From: "David K. Storrs" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans Message-ID: <199509302138.RAA19061-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> [Not sure who wrote this, so I'm including both names] >The Diana Tregard books are a lot like the Tanya Huff books, although I >like Diana better. In fact, Children of The Night and Blood Price are >VERY similar. I read them quite close together and got confused. For >instance, in Children Diana is the romance novelist, not the vampire. I >think you'd like them. They're not really any more "horror" than Misty's >Serrated Edge books. > > >Colette > > >gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com > > Vas is das "Tanya Huff" books?! Misty books a la Di Tregarde, und I am not knowing uff dem? Plees, to rectify dis situvation soonest! I.e., what are they and where can I get 'em? Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 19:48:16 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lots of things. Message-ID: <199510012348.TAA09721-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: >Thanks, Stephanie! I had forgotten Talia's "choice" of marriage or >Temple-service. Perhaps the Holderkin split at the time of the goddess' >"disappearance" - maybe the vows of silence, etc. reflect the growing >repression and eventual removal of Vkandis' consort from the State >religion. Wouldn't that make some interesting stories - set them in >Karse, from a Karsite perspective....oh Misty!!! The Holderkin fled into Valdemar "a couple generation ago", while Vkandis's Consort had gone missing "hundreds of years back". My guess is that the Holderkin religion is their very own brand and not a derivative of Vkandis's worship. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 06:46:14 -0500 From: "Helen M. Wilfehrt" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Holderkin (was Lots of Things) Message-ID: <199510012343.AA114881022-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> >In a message dated 95-09-29 17:55:35 EDT, Ina writes: > >>I was wondering...has anybody else noticed, while the Holderkin has >>certain strict rules about women, the one who represents them in the >>Council when Taila becomes a Herald, is female. Anybody got any >>thoughts? > >When I read that, I assumed that the council rep (sorry, her name escapes me >at the moment) represented a geographical area which just happened to contain >the Holderkin. If the council members are elected, the Holderkin may not >have a large enough voter base to control the direction of elections. > However, I do not think they are elected, I believe that they are appointed, >and since the Holderkin want to have very little to do with outsiders, it >would be difficult if not impossible to find one willing to leave the Holds >and represent the district as a whole. Just my humble opinion. > >Kathy > > They are selected by the other members of the council. Remember after Ancar was beaten, Talia and Elspeth were meeting with the Council back in Haven, one or two of the members, Orthallen's allies, declined being tested for their loyalty under the Truth Spell and therefore were forced to resign. The remaining Council members then selected their replacements. Similarly, when Vanyel forced his father to return with him to Haven in order to provide him with better protection, his father was given the Council seat for that region. Helen h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 20:06:40 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: <199510020006.UAA09727-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Adrienne York wrote: >On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Jennifer S. Broekman wrote: >> people and performing rituals and so on. Kal'enedral have a stronger >> link to a particular aspect of the Star-Eyed than the average >> Shin'a'in, but they aren't priests in any other sense. >Tell that to Tarma. Check out book 1 of V&H. When Tarma is talking to >a priest just before she encounters Thalkarsh (sp?), the demon, again, >and Misty says something to the effect of: Kethry was enjoying watching >this often-hidden side of Tarma, for most people didn't know that as well >as being a fully trained warrior, she was also a priest. I don't have >the book, so I can't look up the exact quote. But I definitely remember >that. IMO, there are two main bits to being a priest. One is having a link to a deity, which can be as strong as Tarma's or as weak as Karal thinks his is. The other part, which doesn't require the first, is to *function* as a priest in one's everyday life. Participating as Priest in the OathBreaking ceremony doesn't count and neither does having an expansive knowledge of theological literature (which is what Tarma is displaying in the scene you're referring to). The former is evidence of the link, since the ritual requires the energy from magical and deific sources, while the latter is merely scholasticism. Being able to claim the rank of Priest is also not evidence of being one. Again, it's evidence of the link, and the respect given to those who have one. Outside the Shin'a'in, it may be that all those who have such a link are, indeed, priests, but inside the Shin'a'in, this isn't the case. Being a priest is ministering to people, performing the everyday rituals that keep a people in contact with their deity, and generally acting as the contact between the deity and the people. Kal'enedral do not do this. Shaman do this. Kal'endral are the militant monks of the Shin'a'in, *not* the priests. (It wasn't the Kal'enedral of the tribes that went into trance to find out how the Star-Eyed wanted them to answer the challenge of the glassy Plains, remember.) They may be able to function as a priest under special circumstances, but it's not what they are. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:29:27 +0100 (BST) From: Joanna Hilken To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Tylendal Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Sep 1995 c2mxpeas-+AT+-fre.fsu.umd.edu wrote: -snip- > I just thought that upon seeing how Talia was protected by Rolan, it's possible > that the Companions are just as fiercely loyal to their Chosen, willing to > protect all their secrets for them... > Brenda Ramirez Interesting point. Perhaps companions are something like each herald's personal MO in that respect. Talia, especially during that phase, needed to be able to trust Rolan *absolutely*. She'd need an extra large amount of emotional support, since that's where her gift lies. (These days of course, she's so wise, mature and suchlike, that she'd breeze a 'betrayal' for her own or the common good. ;-} ) Joanna ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:48:25 +0100 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A couple of things. Message-ID: <199510020948.21237.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:12:48 +0100, Sarah Stock said: > I was thinking the other day about Gala's decision. I wonder if > maybe Gala thought the repudiating 'Lendel was the best of two evils. > IE She knew that she would have to try to take on the wrysa, and > that she wouldn't survive. So, 'Lendel either gets repudiated or > feels Gala die. Myabe Gala decided that the repudiation had a chance > of shocking 'Lendel out of his madness, whereas feeling her death at > the hands of his own creatures, could only push him further in. So, > while Gala made lots of mistakes before, repudiating 'Lendel may not > have been such a mistake as a choice forced upon her. I don't agree. As it happened, Tylendel didn't feel her die, but he had the feeling of being betrayed by the one who loved him. The way a Herald-to-Be feels when he or she is chosen, that the Companion will forgive anything, that he or she loves without conditions, I actually think _that_ would hurt more than loosing her in another way. Both ways, he lost her, but if she had just gotten killed, at least he wouldn't feel betrayed. JMHO, IFL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 07:02:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Vivian Choh To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list Subject: Huff Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, David K. Storrs wrote: > Vas is das "Tanya Huff" books?! Misty books a la Di Tregarde, und I > am not knowing uff dem? Plees, to rectify dis situvation soonest! > > I.e., what are they and where can I get 'em? Hi David, The Huff books that the list is referring to are the Blood Series, which like Misty's books, feature a vampire who is living in our times and universe. We seem to be divided on which of the books we like better. Mel and Colette appear to like Misty's stuff better, while I and someone else (Sorry I've forgotten who) prefer Huff's series. (Dunno about Jenneke; Jenneke? You've posted previously that you're a Huff-fan, but does that mean that necessarily you like the Blood Series better?) The first books of both series ARE very, very similar, however, I find Huff's series more humourous and more light-hearted than Misty's. (Then again, I'm VERY biased, seeing as how I live in Toronto and pass by the streets that are mentioned in the books almost every day....and the conversations are very Canadian (or at least Torontonian -- Everybody I know swears like Vicky :) )). I also like the Blood series better because the protagonist is not special in the supernatural/mystical sense (unlike Diana, who has special witchly(?) powers) and relies on her personality (stubborn-as-hell) to get by. The books are: Blood Price Blood Trail Blood (uh-oh - drawing a blank, lent it out. Somebody help me out!) and Blood Pact Sorry about the third title. Hopefully someone else will post the correct title? As for where to get them...I got my set from the local sci-fi/fantasy bookstore, but I THINK that they are pretty easy to find...(Anyone out there actually have problems getting them?) Vivian Choh bi189-+AT+-torfree.net v.choh-+AT+-utoronto.ca "I am all that I claim to be. I simply have not claimed all that I am." - M. Lackey, "Oathbreakers" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:20:00 EET DST From: "Tarja Rainio" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds Message-ID: <1BBA666EE-+AT+-katk.helsinki.fi> Mat Timmerman wrote: >Hey, this quote means that our speculation was wrong! Kero and Eldan >*aren't* lifebonded! How they could Mindspeak over suck a distance >without it, I don't know. I don't know that "very strong love" would >be able to do that. Well, it's straight from Misty's mouth (through >QO and Colette first of course, though :) ), so it has to be fact. Perhaps Ratha was boosting Eldan's Mindspeech ability? He approved of Kero and understood why she had to leave Eldan, but perhaps he recognized the Herald potential in her and in some strange Companion Foresight recognized that she would be needed in the future. Kero's relationship with Eldan created a link through which Kero got to Valdemar (simplifying a bit) and helped i the war effort and got finally Chosen. Tarja ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:33:37 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans Message-ID: <199510021333.JAA09864-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> David K. Storrs wrote: > Vas is das "Tanya Huff" books?! Misty books a la Di Tregarde, und I >am not knowing uff dem? Plees, to rectify dis situvation soonest! > I.e., what are they and where can I get 'em? Tanya Huff is a Canadian (Torontonian) author. She writes both modern gothic fiction (ie. vampires, werewolves, and mummies, but it's not really horror) and high fantasy. You should be able to get her books at your favorite bookstore, either off the shelf or by special order. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 16:09:05 +0100 From: Ina Faye-Lund To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds Message-ID: <199510021509.15773.gjalp.ifi.uio.no-+AT+-ifi.uio.no> On Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:28:24 +0100, Tarja Rainio said: > Perhaps Ratha was boosting Eldan's Mindspeech ability? He approved > of Kero and understood why she had to leave Eldan, but perhaps he > recognized the Herald potential in her and in some strange Companion > Foresight recognized that she would be needed in the future. Kero's > relationship with Eldan created a link through which Kero got to > Valdemar (simplifying a bit) and helped i the war effort and got > finally Chosen. What about this: They wouldn't be able to mindspeak over that distance, usually. But remember, mostly, Kero was asleep when she "spoke" with Eldan. Trance enhances the Gifts, doesn't it? So, if Eldan entered a trance while Kero was asleep, he might be able to reach her. I don't think they would have been able to communicate with ordinary Mindspeak, otherwise. -- IFL Elen síla lümenn' omentielvo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:32:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Jennifer S. Broekman wrote: > do not do this. Shaman do this. Kal'endral are the militant monks of > the Shin'a'in, *not* the priests. (It wasn't the Kal'enedral of the > tribes that went into trance to find out how the Star-Eyed wanted them > to answer the challenge of the glassy Plains, remember.) They may be > able to function as a priest under special circumstances, but it's not > what they are. I was under the impression that the Swordsworn in midnight blue (the ones who work at the temple in Kata'shin'a'in, Querna, etc.) were the particularly "priestly" arm of the Kal'endral, but all Swordsworn were priest(esse)s by virtue of their direct and strong spirit-bond with the Star-Eyed... I\/ Catherine Osborne "I will not go down to I\/ Sundancer posterity talking bad I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu grammar." I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ --Disraeli ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 11:33:00 cdt From: "Thomas, Daria" To: 'mercedes-lackey' Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: <30701478-+AT+-mailsrvr.bussvc.wisc.edu> >Being a priest is ministering to people, performing the everyday >rituals that keep a people in contact with their deity, and generally >acting as the contact between the deity and the people. Kal'enedral >do not do this. Shaman do this. Kal'endral are the militant monks of >the Shin'a'in, *not* the priests. (It wasn't the Kal'enedral of the >tribes that went into trance to find out how the Star-Eyed wanted them >to answer the challenge of the glassy Plains, remember.) They may be >able to function as a priest under special circumstances, but it's not >what they are. > >-jenneke Well, that's *your* definition of a priest. But may I point out that there *were* no Kal'enedral when the Shamans went into trance? IIRC, the senior Shaman mentioned that the woman who had created that memory-rug had also created the first sword-sworn. I guess my vote goes with the Kal'enedral being Priests, even though they don't have congregations as such, since they serve the Goddess more directly. -Daria ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 16:32:09 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Choosing Kero Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, Vivian Choh wrote: > On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Cecile S. Ueltschey wrote: > > [somebody else's quote snipped re: Kero's skills] > {much of my quote snipped} > > > > Heralds are Chosen where and when they are needed. Remember the tag > > Hmmm...I always thought that it was more Kero's morals/ethics that got her > chosen because of the hemming and hawing of Eldan's companion Ratha(?). > It was when Ratha was trying to discourage Eldan from falling in love? > with Kero (actually what WAS Ratha trying to accomplish? Did he really > expect Eldan to de/un-fall in love with Kero?). Eldan had said that he > wanted to get her up to Valdemar, and Ratha said something like, if he got > her up there, she just might -- (then cut off the thought). I thought > that the cut off thought was that Kero would be chosen. If it's not, > what do you think the cut-off thought was? > Perhaps, it was too soon for Kero to show up in Valdemar. She was not yet the leader of the Skybolts, the 'Bolts were in disarray at the end of the Menmellith (or whatever) campaign, and she was missing-presumed-dead. Granted, a number of her SKILLS were there but she was not yet a LEADER. The Skybolts would not have followed her at this point in time, and I feel that THEY were part of the reason that she was Chosen AT THE TIME that she was. And perhaps, her Companion was not ready???? Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 18:53:06 -0700 From: wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: <199510030153.SAA23511-+AT+-ix5.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > >William Jones wrote: >>Arrows Fall) Astera=star=star-eyed... Kero's goddess had three >>aspects, a wild one, a maiden, and an old lady (which was incidently > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Agnoma was a crone. "Old lady" is just a *little* disrespectful...:-) *Shadow-Lover bows* My apologies to you m'lady... Twas just a slip of the type, no offense intended... >>designated by the snowflake, and the Star-Eyed's crone is of the north >>wind...) > >The Christian archangel associated with Death is also the one >associated with the North. Does this mean that Misty stole from >Christian mysticism? Hell no, it means that we're all in the northern >hemispheres of our worlds and associate "north" with "cold" and "dark" >and "frozen" and "not moving" and "death". This is true... I was only remarking on the similarities between the two religions in an attempt to argue my case... While it is true that the analogy may be universal, it could, in all possibility, be another form of the same diety.. Who's to say? >> and Need refers to a male and female twian.. > >*Twins*, plural. Need's deities are a pair of male twins and a pair >of female twins. *Shadow-Lover smacks the typo demon* that was supposed to read "Need refers to a male and female _twain_ > >>... I'm >>pretty much conviced that there are only two dieties in Velgarth.. > >*Mage Storms Spoiler Alert* > > >If there are only two, and Vkandis and the Star-Eyed are on the same >side (and there's pretty hard evidence of it), why would someone as >knowledgeable as Ulrich think that there might be a deity on the >Empire's side who would go head-to-head with Vkandis if Vkandis >started throwing ligtening bolts around? > >-jenneke > While Ulrich was very wise in the ways of religion, in the passage you are refering to he is merely speculating the possibility of another diety... He, not being a diety himself, was fallable in his mortality... He doesn't know about the Star-Eyed's remarks to Kethry and Roald's companion... Nor does he subscribe (for lack of a better word) to a religion that is very tolerant of the idea of there being any other true religion... He is not in a real good position to know about relations between Vkandis and the god(s)/goddess(es) of other lands OR their relation to his own god... - Shadow-Lover ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 21:59:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Croaker" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Holderkin Message-ID: <9510030200.AA00519-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> Someone (lost the post, so can't quote) mentioned that the Holderkin had only come over a couple of generations ago, as a counter to someone else's post that maybe the oppressive regime of those Holderkin sworn to the Goddess is an artifact of the repression of Kalenel's cult... Just a point to make: They were still Holderkin, still hyper-insular, etc, in Vanyel's time. He mentions them when he's coming off the Karsite border in the second book, I think. -- =============================================================================== | croaker-+AT+-cyber1.servtech.com | "I *HEARD* That!!!" | | Known to Reality as | -- Warrick Morgannen, | | Chris Nasipak |_________________ Archmage of Pittsburgh. | | http://www.servtech.com/public/croaker/index.html | | =============================================================================== GAT/CS: d? s+:++ a? C++ U*+ P+ L+.5 E W++ N++ K- w--- O+ M-- V- PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X++ R+ tv+ b+++ DI- D+ G e+.5 h! r- z? =============================================================================== Copyright 1995, Chris Nasipak. Microsoft Network is prohibited from redistributing this work in any form, in whole or in part. Distribution liscense for this work is available to Microsoft for US$10,000. Distribution constitutes an agreement to these terms. Permission is granted for all other distribution of this complete work. =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:35:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy Mason To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lifebonds Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Sanna Koulu wrote: > Just a thought: are there any powerful, evil mages who are lifebonded? > It seems like they are definitely in need of someone sane to lean on. > Does lifebonding have anything to do with being a _good_ person? > It is stated that Heralds are more often bonded than normal people - > is that _just_ because they're Gifted? I don't believe that there were any mentioning of lifebonded evil mages. There are mentions of evil mages courting, but never lifebonding. With what we believe lifebonding is, to steady someone, how could anyone ever "steady" an evil mage? Just IMHO. Also, with Heralds being bonded more often than normal people - Heralds have a lot of instability in their lives, I believe that they would need more help than normal people would, considering what they deal with. Crysanthia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:58:19 -0400 From: EDooley489-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans Message-ID: <951002235808_35048770-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> There are four books by Tanya Huff. They are Blood Price, Blood Trail, Blood Lines, and Blood Pact. That is the order they come in. They deal with a male vampire novelist and an ex-cop private investigator. They are definitely similar to Misty's books and they are totally awesome. I got them in a regular book store so you shouldn't have too many problems!:) Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:18:21 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: <199510030418.AAA10729-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> William Jones wrote: >[jenneke] wrote: >>*Twins*, plural. Need's deities are a pair of male twins and a pair >>of female twins. >*Shadow-Lover smacks the typo demon* that was supposed to read "Need >refers to a male and female _twain_ I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by that. >>*Mage Storms Spoiler Alert* >> >> >>If there are only two, and Vkandis and the Star-Eyed are on the same >>side (and there's pretty hard evidence of it), why would someone as >>knowledgeable as Ulrich think that there might be a deity on the >>Empire's side who would go head-to-head with Vkandis if Vkandis >>started throwing ligtening bolts around? >While Ulrich was very wise in the ways of religion, in the passage you >are refering to he is merely speculating the possibility of another >diety... He, not being a diety himself, was fallable in his >mortality... He doesn't know about the Star-Eyed's remarks to Kethry >and Roald's companion... Nor does he subscribe (for lack of a better >word) to a religion that is very tolerant of the idea of there being >any other true religion... He is not in a real good position to know >about relations between Vkandis and the god(s)/goddess(es) of other >lands OR their relation to his own god... The fact that the Karsite religion holds that there is no other real deity but Vkandis would tend to argue that Ulrich *shouldn't* believe in other deities, not that he should be wary of the possibility, which, in the abovementioned scene, he is. Given how much research he's done into time periods when Vkandis-worship was not only not as narrow as it 'currently' is but wasn't even the only religion tolerated in Karse, I think he has as good as chance as any God-touched mortal to have the relevant clues. (He does, after all, have a FireCat to ask questions of...) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 21:23:06 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lifebonds Message-ID: <9510030413.AA22656-+AT+-baker> >Just a thought: are there any powerful, evil mages who are lifebonded? >It seems like they are definitely in need of someone sane to lean on. >Does lifebonding have anything to do with being a _good_ person? >It is stated that Heralds are more often bonded than normal people - >is that _just_ because they're Gifted? > > -Seanna I'm not sure that they'd be willing to accept the bond. It seems that they wouldn't be able to trust another person enough to allow it. I think it's actually possible that they'd kill the person first rather than submit. But since it's been sugested that the deities are involved, it would be interesting to see if it could be used to rehabilitate someone on a dark path, Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 21:26:46 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: <9510030417.AA22698-+AT+-baker> >*Mage Storms Spoiler Alert* > > >If there are only two, and Vkandis and the Star-Eyed are on the same >side (and there's pretty hard evidence of it), why would someone as >knowledgeable as Ulrich think that there might be a deity on the >Empire's side who would go head-to-head with Vkandis if Vkandis >started throwing ligtening bolts around? > >-jenneke > And what about Iftel? There are all kinds of referances to their deity taking an active role in the defence of the country. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 21:36:04 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bad News for Diana Tregarde fans Message-ID: <9510030426.AA22837-+AT+-baker> >[Not sure who wrote this, so I'm including both names] > >>The Diana Tregard books are a lot like the Tanya Huff books, although I >>like Diana better. In fact, Children of The Night and Blood Price are >>VERY similar. I read them quite close together and got confused. For >>instance, in Children Diana is the romance novelist, not the vampire. I >>think you'd like them. They're not really any more "horror" than Misty's >>Serrated Edge books. >> >> >>Colette >> >> >>gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com >> >> > > > Vas is das "Tanya Huff" books?! Misty books a la Di Tregarde, und I >am not knowing uff dem? Plees, to rectify dis situvation soonest! > > I.e., what are they and where can I get 'em? > > Dave I was replying to a person who was saying that they hadn't read the Tregard books because they didn't like horror, but said they liked Tanya Huff. So I explained that they were very similar. Books by her should be in most book stores and have no connection to Mercedes Lackey except that the stories are similar. Blood Price and Children of the Night have a lot of parallels. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 08:24:52 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lifebonds (SPOILER (?) for Mage-winds/storms) Message-ID: <14B76EE45D3-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> > Date sent: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 05:09:08 +0100 > Send reply to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk > From: Amy Mason > To: skoulu-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi > Subject: RE: Lifebonds > > > On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Sanna Koulu wrote: > > > Just a thought: are there any powerful, evil mages who are lifebonded? > > It seems like they are definitely in need of someone sane to lean on. > > Does lifebonding have anything to do with being a _good_ person? > > It is stated that Heralds are more often bonded than normal people - > > is that _just_ because they're Gifted? > > I don't believe that there were any mentioning of lifebonded evil mages. > There are mentions of evil mages courting, but never lifebonding. With > what we believe lifebonding is, to steady someone, how could anyone ever > "steady" an evil mage? Just IMHO. Also, with Heralds being bonded more > often than normal people - Heralds have a lot of instability in their > lives, I believe that they would need more help than normal people would, > considering what they deal with. > Crysanthia > After writing the original posting, I did some thinking (Me! would you believe it? ). So: maybe if a person who could turn to evil (Firesong?) gets lifebonded, they'll stay sane and nice. And if somebody evil and powerful got lifebonded, the other person would probably suffer too much for the lifebond to be any good overall. I still think it might be good for the evil mage, though... like Firesong comments about Ma'ar, in the beginning he made excuses for himself and so on. So maybe if he had been 'steadied' at that point, he wouldn't have become Leareth/Mornelithe/etc. -Seanna ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 164 *********************************