MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 168 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Lifebonding Contradictions by Mat Timmerman 2) Re: Storm Warning(God Question) by WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com (MR DAVID W BAHRKE) 3) RE: Lifebonds (SPOILER (?) for Mage-winds/storms) by Amy Mason 4) Re: Misty's Music by Rich Crawford 5) RE: Lifebonds (SPOILER (?) for Mage-winds/storms) by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 6) Universe name (Velgarth) by Vivian Choh 7) Re: aspects of the Star-Eyed by Mat Timmerman 8) Re: aspects of the Star-Eyed by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) 9) Re: Lifebonding Contradictions by wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) 10) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 162 by Adrienne York 11) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 162 by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 12) Re:Misty's Music by QJBE50F-+AT+-prodigy.com (MR JOHN T HELQUIST) 13) Re: I'm confused! by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 14) Re: Storm Warning(God Question) by Adrienne York 15) Re: I'm confused! by "Sanna Koulu" 16) RE: Lifebonds (SPOILER (?) for Mage-winds/storms) by "Sanna Koulu" 17) Re: I'm confused! by jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) 18) RE: Lifebonds (SPOILER (?) for Mage-winds/storms) by "Sanna Koulu" 19) Re: I'm confused! by Ned 20) many things (inc. Di, Empire religions, music.) by Catherine Osborne 21) I wanna move to Valdemar! by "Aphrael" 22) Re: Star-eyed aspects by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) 23) Re: I wanna move to Valdemar! by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 24) Re: many things (inc. Di, Empire religions, music.) by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 16:07:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Lifebonding Contradictions Message-ID: <01HW34XTEJPE8ZGIWV-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> You know, there seem to be some contradictions between when lifebonds are formed in LHM and Arrows. In Arrows, it's said that if you don't lifebond the first time that you see someone, you never will. But in LHM, it's stated that Van and 'Lendel bonded during 'Lendel's case of backlash after Staven's death. If it happend before this, wouldn't 'Lendel have sensed it. During his convalescence (sp?), he says something to Vanyel like, "We seem to be linking a little. I think that it happened sometime between when I went into my fit and when I came out of the backlash." This means that during most of their time together, they weren't bonded. Now, I guess that they _were_ bonded the whole time, but didn't acknowledge it. Still, they didn't suffer the problems of an un-acknowledged lifebond after they got together. This could indicate that it's not the bond that has to be acknowledged, but the couple's love for one another. Whew, got a bit long winded there :) Actually, this post turned out to go kind of far afield from contradictions between LHM and Arrows. Oh well, nobody's perfect. :) Mat T. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Mat Timmerman "They want to stop the ones who want | | accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu prosthetic foreheads on their heads. But | | mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on | | their real heads." -- TMBG | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 15:22:59 EDT From: WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com (MR DAVID W BAHRKE) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning(God Question) Message-ID: <013.02420111.WXAV85D-+AT+-prodigy.com> Two things: 1) I thought that the empire had 40 "little" gods that were worshiped as well. These 40 were the actual deities of the empire. I assumed it was similar to the pre-christian Roman empire where the emperor was worshiped as a god, but they still had their "real" deities. 2) I thought that it was the ordinary clansmen that could only go to the moonpaths at night and sometimes only on a full moon. It seems pretty silly to me to say that a Kal'enedral is supposed to have a more direct contact to the Star-eyed, and then turn around and say "If you were a shaman you could come and see me any time, but since you are a Kal'enedral you can only come at night." Zhai'helleva, David WXAV85D-+AT+-PRODIGY.COM PROUD TO BE ME! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:05:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy Mason To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lifebonds (SPOILER (?) for Mage-winds/storms) Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, Sanna Koulu wrote: > After writing the original posting, I did some thinking (Me! would > you believe it? ). So: maybe if a person who could turn to evil > (Firesong?) gets lifebonded, they'll stay sane and nice. And if > somebody evil and powerful got lifebonded, the other person would > probably suffer too much for the lifebond to be any good overall. > I still think it might be good for the evil mage, though... like > Firesong comments about Ma'ar, in the beginning he made excuses for > himself and so on. So maybe if he had been 'steadied' at that point, > he wouldn't have become Leareth/Mornelithe/etc. That's a good question. An'desha remarks that our of all of Mornelithe's prior "lives." The most human of them all was Ma'ar. But didn't Ma'ar stay in the void between gates for a long time before he found one of this descendents. I don't think that anybody could've gotten cloes enough to Ma'ar during Urtho's age to lifebond to him. What do you think? Crysanthia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 14:31:45 -0700 From: Rich Crawford To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty's Music Message-ID: <199510052131.OAA16021-+AT+-franc.ucdavis.edu> >You can get Misty's music from Firebird Arts and Music > P.o. Box 14785 > Portland Or 97214 >They also have an on line catolog, don't remember the address. I'd sugest >her albums for the vanyel series and also for By the Sword. Oh, and the >Tempest album Serrated Edge is good too. > > >gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com > > Their website address is http://www.usa.net/firebird/index.htm Enjoy! Tempest is cool... ............................................................................ ................................ "I belong / In the service of the Queen..." -Counting Crows ............................................................................ ................................ Zhai'helleva Rich ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:59:12 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lifebonds (SPOILER (?) for Mage-winds/storms) Message-ID: <199510052159.RAA13818-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Amy Mason wrote: >That's a good question. An'desha remarks that our of all of Mornelithe's >prior "lives." The most human of them all was Ma'ar. But didn't Ma'ar >stay in the void between gates for a long time before he found one of >this descendents. I don't think that anybody could've gotten cloes >enough to Ma'ar during Urtho's age to lifebond to him. What do you think? I think that lifebonding requires that both partners give something of themselves at the soul-deep level. I don't think that evil people (remember Dirk's explanation of evil in _Arrow's Fall_?) are capable of this giving. Therefore, I don't think evil people lifebond. Even when Ma'ar was a young upstart, he was still a fanatic, and probably unable to give anything of himself to anything besides his Cause. Firesong is, IMO, in desperate need of stabilization, but that doesn't necessarily have to come from a lifebond. (Like someone else has already said, though, I'd *really* like to see a central shaych character have a *happy* lifebonding/love life.) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 16:27:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Vivian Choh To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Universe name (Velgarth) Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Oct 1995, Jerry Cullingford wrote: > Yes - Velgarth is the name of the world the Herald books are set in, > Valdemar is one of the countries. I've always wondered..how did you lot find out the name of the universe? Where is that information contained? Prior to joining this list, I'd not known that there WAS name for the universe (Velgarth) and I'd read all the books except for the (then) recently released ones. Is it written in fine print somewhere in one of the books, and I just missed it? Vivian Choh bi189-+AT+-torfree.net v.choh-+AT+-utoronto.ca "I am all that I claim to be. I simply have not claimed all that I am." - M. Lackey, "Oathbreakers" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 18:50:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: aspects of the Star-Eyed Message-ID: <01HW3AOWOTYQ8ZGRZR-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> From: William Jones stuff snipped.. > > The Kal'endral are sworn to Kal'enel, the warrior... The shaman are > sworn to all the goddess' aspects... There is a sect (for lack of a > better word) of Kal'endral that are mentioned in both SW and W1 that > are sworn to both Warrior and Crone, these where Navy instead of > black... No, the shaman are _not_ sworn to all four aspects. There _is_ a mention of such a thing IIRC in either WoFury or Storms 1 or 2 by An'desha, but it's not a shaman. The shaman are sworn only to the Crone. Mat T. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Mat Timmerman "They want to stop the ones who want | | accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu prosthetic foreheads on their heads. But | | mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on | | their real heads." -- TMBG | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 17:58:16 -0400 From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: aspects of the Star-Eyed Message-ID: <199510052158.RAA24636-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> > - Shadow-Lover > >A sociopath with no restraints can become anything... Amorality frees >her to be universally perfect, a charming chamelion with a scorpion's >tail... -Color of Night > (Totally off the topic of anything related to Misty...) When I first read your sig, I thought it was an interesting quote...then I thought about it a bit more, and it started to bother me...then I realized how disturbing it really is. Great sig! Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:35:45 -0700 From: wdjpej-+AT+-ix.netcom.com (William Jones ) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonding Contradictions Message-ID: <199510060135.SAA04550-+AT+-ix5.ix.netcom.com> You wrote: > >You know, there seem to be some contradictions between when lifebonds are >formed in LHM and Arrows. In Arrows, it's said that if you don't lifebond >the first time that you see someone, you never will. But in LHM, it's >stated that Van and 'Lendel bonded during 'Lendel's case of backlash after >Staven's death. If it happend before this, wouldn't 'Lendel have sensed >it. During his convalescence (sp?), he says something to Vanyel like, >"We seem to be linking a little. I think that it happened sometime >between when I went into my fit and when I came out of the backlash." >This means that during most of their time together, they weren't bonded. >Now, I guess that they _were_ bonded the whole time, but didn't acknowledge >it. Still, they didn't suffer the problems of an un-acknowledged lifebond >after they got together. This could indicate that it's not the bond that >has to be acknowledged, but the couple's love for one another. > >Whew, got a bit long winded there :) Actually, this post turned out to >go kind of far afield from contradictions between LHM and Arrows. Oh well, >nobody's perfect. :) > >Mat T. > I think it can be said that one can never judge anything by Lendel/Stefen and Vanyel... Everything in those books seems to be inconsistant at best, downright contradicting at worst... Possibly 700 years without magic has changed a few things in Valdemar! :) Most likely, the lifebond betwixt Lendel and Van existed from the beginning, it was just weak until strenuous circumstances made them link... I dunno... - Shadow-Lover A sociopath with no restraints can become anything... Amorality frees her to be universally perfect, a charming chameleon with a scorpions tail... -Color of Night ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 22:50:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 162 Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, David K. Storrs wrote: (snip of discussion of country names) > > I don't believe that the Dhorisa Plains and the Pelagirs belonged to > anything so organized as a country -- there was no real government, just a > lot of unused land (mostly unsafe for humans), and the occasional farmer or > small farm town. > > Dave > IIRC, that's the same attitude Withen had toward the Pelagirs on Van's last trip to Forst Reach. How anyone could say the Dhorisha Plains, which were protected by the Shin'a'in, had no real government, is beyond me. And it's borders were just as stable, if not more so, than the borders of any modern nation. As far as the Pelagirs, they are protected by the Tayledras and their Lady as much as Valdemar is by the Heralds. The Tayledras have certainly formed a nation as much as the Amerindian nations which were in the Americas before they had been completely colonized. Those are countries. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:50:35 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 162 Message-ID: <199510060350.XAA14128-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Adrienne York wrote: >IIRC, that's the same attitude Withen had toward the Pelagirs on Van's >last trip to Forst Reach. How anyone could say the Dhorisha Plains, >which were protected by the Shin'a'in, had no real government, is beyond >me. And it's borders were just as stable, if not more so, than the >borders of any modern nation. As far as the Pelagirs, they are protected >by the Tayledras and their Lady as much as Valdemar is by the Heralds. >The Tayledras have certainly formed a nation as much as the Amerindian >nations which were in the Americas before they had been completely >colonized. Those are countries. Well, the Europeans didn't consider the Native American tribes to be real nations, much the way non-Kal'ed'ain don't seem to consider them a real nation. (Proof that the European settlers didn't consider the Native American tribes to be 'real' nations can be seen by looking at the difference in the way they honored treaties made with European ('real') nations and the way they honored treaties made with the tribes.) As for the Tayledras protecting the Pelagirs, yes, but *only* the particular section they're in the process of taming. They don't go out of their areas, so there are always large regions of the Pelagirs that are completely unpatrolled by humans, much less by the Tayledras (the UnCleansed Lands). (The section that Tarma and Kethry go into to summon Warrl is one of these.) So it's difficult to say that the Tayledras are equivalent to the Heralds for the Pelagirs as a whole, even in the sense of protecting the area. Also, before the Mage Winds books, we never hear of the Tayledras as a whole negotiating with outside nations or even having much of any contact with outside nations, even those on the border of the Pelagirs, like Valdemar and Rethwellan. Since government-types depend on the negociation, they don't see groups that don't engage in it as real countries. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 00:29:49 EDT From: QJBE50F-+AT+-prodigy.com (MR JOHN T HELQUIST) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Misty's Music Message-ID: <013.02456350.QJBE50F-+AT+-prodigy.com> A few minutes ago David K. Storrs wrote (and this is heavily edited) >There is a bunch of other stuff on the site as well--take a look! >(I _Strongly_recommend the "Magic, Moondust, and Melancholy"album) While we are on the topic of recommendations can I mention a few? I really liked the "ShadowStalker-Songs From Vanyels Time" album. The woman who sings is named Heather Alexander and she is _Wonderful_. She also does the "Oathbound" and "Oathbreakers" album with Leslie Fish which are amazing. In fact anything by Heather is good. Random Factors sells all of her stuff. I think she was the one who did the above mentioned "Magic, Moondust, and Melancholy" album too. "Heralds, Harpers, and Havoc" is a fun one also. What all do you all like when it comes to music? Some of my favorites are Enya (New album out next month!), Erasure, ABBA, Clannad, Capercallie, Altan, and most musicals. The list goes on and on. John Helquist at QJBE50F-+AT+-prodigy.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 16:04:56 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I'm confused! Message-ID: <9510060604.AA20121-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Chelle wrote: > Okay, I'm confused, maybe someone can help me. I was rereading > the Diana Tregarde books the other night. In Children of the Night, it > appears that the story is set in the early seventies. She mentions > Watergate and IIRC that happened in 73 or so. Please excuse my knowledge > or lack thereof of American history and/or politics. Anyways, assuming > this is true, I am now massivly confused. I then assume that the book Jinx > High takes place sometimes after that. IO also assume, that it isn't > THAT many years later. so that would put it sometime in the seventies, > right? Okay, now here's what I'm confused about - How the heck did Lenny > get AIDS?! It wasn't even around at that time, and even if it was, it > definatly wasn't diagnosed. So, now I'm confused (which I have mentioned > before). I would greatly appreciate it if someone could explain this to > me, because no one on this end can. Thanks in advance. I got the distinct impression from how Deke was carrying on, that Di was in her late 30's / mid 40's by Jinx High (and IIRC Burning Waters is set soon after Jinx). Di & Larry (Deke's father) were in college together circa age 20 (in the 70's definitely) and Deke is now 18'ish (ok, so I'm fudging ages from memory, but the general ballpark's right). So Jinx High is set in the late 80's early 90's.. No problem. :) -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com "To give light to them that sit in darkness, and in the shadow of death: and to guide our feet into the way of peace." (The Last Hero) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 02:06:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Adrienne York To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning(God Question) Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, MR DAVID W BAHRKE wrote: > Two things: > > 1) > I thought that the empire had 40 "little" gods that were worshiped as > well. These 40 were the actual deities of the empire. I assumed it > was similar to the pre-christian Roman empire where the emperor was > worshiped as a god, but they still had their "real" deities. For some reason, and no I don't remember anything even remotely specific to back this up, I thought the 40 little gods were previous Emperors, the current Emperor was the head god, and people also worshipped whatever the hell they felt like, so long as it didn't cause them to break the laws of the empire. > 2) > I thought that it was the ordinary clansmen that could only go to the > moonpaths at night and sometimes only on a full moon. It seems > pretty silly to me to say that a Kal'enedral is supposed to have a > more direct contact to the Star-eyed, and then turn around and say > "If you were a shaman you could come and see me any time, but since > you are a Kal'enedral you can only come at night." Ordinary clansmen can only go during a full moon. Kal'enedral can only go at night. Shaman can go at any time. I suspect it is because the shaman experience more in the way of religious duties than the Kal'enedral. A shaman seems to always be on the job, but a Kal'enedral can just hang out if nothing in particular is happening. Or at least, that's what I thought. It's sort of like the difference between a monk and a lay minister. ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ;] Adrienne York-Minor ;] ;] "There is no 'One, True Way'" Valdemaran Law Codes ;] ;] ayork-+AT+-simons-rock.edu ;] ;];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];];] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:52:12 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I'm confused! Message-ID: <193ED5B4DA6-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> > Date sent: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:12:51 +0100 > Send reply to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk > From: Michelle > To: skoulu-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi > Subject: I'm confused! > Okay, I'm confused, maybe someone can help me. I was rereading > the Diana Tregarde books the other night. In Children of the Night, it > appears that the story is set in the early seventies. She mentions > Watergate and IIRC that happened in 73 or so. Please excuse my knowledge > or lack thereof of American history and/or politics. Anyways, assuming > this is true, I am now massivly confused. I then assume that the book Jinx > High takes place sometimes after that. IO also assume, that it isn't > THAT many years later. so that would put it sometime in the seventies, > right? Okay, now here's what I'm confused about - How the heck did Lenny > get AIDS?! It wasn't even around at that time, and even if it was, it > definatly wasn't diagnosed. So, now I'm confused (which I have mentioned > before). I would greatly appreciate it if someone could explain this to > me, because no one on this end can. Thanks in advance. > > Chelle > > Whatever you can do, > or dream you can, > begin it. > Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. -Goethe I thought that in CotN, Di was in her twenties or something like that... I think there's a mention about her looking like a student. In Jinx High, the kid (Kestrel?) thinks that since she is middle- aged, she'll be plump and matronly. I think there's a long time - maybe 15 years? - between the books. Burning Water, though, also mentions a friend of Di's (probably Lenny) having AIDS. Would that book be set somewhere in the 80's? My knowledge of history is not the greatest though, so I probably missed a lot of the clues in the books... -Seanna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:21:20 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lifebonds (SPOILER (?) for Mage-winds/storms) Message-ID: <19469F359B5-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> > Date sent: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:10:02 +0100 > Send reply to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk > From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" > To: skoulu-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi > Subject: RE: Lifebonds (SPOILER (?) for Mage-winds/storms) > Amy Mason wrote: > >That's a good question. An'desha remarks that our of all of Mornelithe's > >prior "lives." The most human of them all was Ma'ar. But didn't Ma'ar > >stay in the void between gates for a long time before he found one of > >this descendents. I don't think that anybody could've gotten cloes > >enough to Ma'ar during Urtho's age to lifebond to him. What do > >you think? I can't remember anything of Ma'ar's life or not-death...but wasn't it enough for a lifebonding for the couple to see each other -like Talia and Dirk? > I think that lifebonding requires that both partners give something of > themselves at the soul-deep level. I don't think that evil people > (remember Dirk's explanation of evil in _Arrow's Fall_?) are capable > of this giving. Therefore, I don't think evil people lifebond. Even > when Ma'ar was a young upstart, he was still a fanatic, and probably > unable to give anything of himself to anything besides his Cause. > Firesong is, IMO, in desperate need of stabilization, but that doesn't > necessarily have to come from a lifebond. (Like someone else has > already said, though, I'd *really* like to see a central shaych > character have a *happy* lifebonding/love life.) > > -jenneke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 03:51:30 -0400 From: jhedge-+AT+-waterw.com (Jeanne Hedge) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I'm confused! Message-ID: <9510060751.AA06243-+AT+-water.waterw.com> > Okay, I'm confused, maybe someone can help me. I was rereading >the Diana Tregarde books the other night. In Children of the Night, it >appears that the story is set in the early seventies. She mentions >Watergate and IIRC that happened in 73 or so. Please excuse my knowledge >or lack thereof of American history and/or politics. Anyways, assuming >this is true, I am now massivly confused. I then assume that the book Jinx >High takes place sometimes after that. IO also assume, that it isn't >THAT many years later. so that would put it sometime in the seventies, >right? Okay, now here's what I'm confused about - How the heck did Lenny >get AIDS?! It wasn't even around at that time, and even if it was, it >definatly wasn't diagnosed. So, now I'm confused (which I have mentioned >before). I would greatly appreciate it if someone could explain this to >me, because no one on this end can. Thanks in advance. OK - here's my take. "Burning Water", the 1st DT book published is in contemporary times. "Children of the Night", the 2nd book published is a pre-quel. You are right in thinking that it happens in the early '70s, shortly after Di graduates from college as a matter of fact. Then "Jinx High" is back in contemporary times again, about a year after "Burning Water" takes place. So in published order the books are "Burning Water", "Children...", and "Jinx High". However, story order is "Children..." (around '73 or so), "Burning Water" (contemporary times - close to 20 years later, based on Deke's age in JH), and then "Jinx High" (about a year after BW, based on Di's comments to Mark Valdez). Hope this helps. Jeanne Hedge jhedge-+AT+-water.waterw.com 75512.1214-+AT+-compuserve.com ================================================================ "Water, water everywhere, nor any drop to drink..." --Samuel Taylor Coleridge, 'The Rime of the Ancient Mariner' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:36:46 EET From: "Sanna Koulu" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Lifebonds (SPOILER (?) for Mage-winds/storms) Message-ID: <195ABD86B82-+AT+-otdk.helsinki.fi> I can't make this damn retarded computer work! It just dropped off half of my message! So here's it again... > Amy Mason wrote: > >That's a good question. An'desha remarks that our of all of Mornelithe's > >prior "lives." The most human of them all was Ma'ar. But didn't Ma'ar > >stay in the void between gates for a long time before he found one of > >this descendents. I don't think that anybody could've gotten cloes > >enough to Ma'ar during Urtho's age to lifebond to him. What do > >you think? I can't remember anything of Ma'ar's life or not-death...but wasn't it enough for a lifebonding for the couple to see each other -like Talia and Dirk? > I think that lifebonding requires that both partners give something of > themselves at the soul-deep level. I don't think that evil people > (remember Dirk's explanation of evil in _Arrow's Fall_?) are capable > of this giving. Therefore, I don't think evil people lifebond. Even > when Ma'ar was a young upstart, he was still a fanatic, and probably > unable to give anything of himself to anything besides his Cause. > Firesong is, IMO, in desperate need of stabilization, but that doesn't > necessarily have to come from a lifebond. (Like someone else has > already said, though, I'd *really* like to see a central shaych > character have a *happy* lifebonding/love life.) > > -jenneke Maybe I've been reading too much Elfquest, but IMO, not only is lifebonding _not_ love, it doesn't necessarily require you to be ready to give. After all, an unacknowledged lifebond isn't really pleasant, and would be rather distracting for a mage... so it's definitely in the _self-interest_ of the 'bonded to make the other one happy. The hypothetical evil mage would _have_ to think of someone else (shock treatment! ) And if we agree that a lifebonding is also meant for the good of the other people near them, as someone (or several someones) either here or in the newsgroup has suggested, it would make sense for to-be-evil mages to 'bond. BTW, can anybody remember what Mornelithe was talking of in Winds of Fate (?) when he referred to some other bond, as deep as a lifebond - something fairly sick, IIRC? I agree, Firesong doesn't really _need_ a lifebond. In fact, considering how obsessed he is with them, it might be bad for him. We definitely would need some happy shaych characters! Vanyel was such a glorious, tragic, noble character that there isn't room for very many others. Firesong seems too much alike as it is. Speaking of Vanyel, _he_ was a fanatic, too! Even if for a good cause... -Seanna (hoping the computer won't eat this message, too. It had better not, or else..) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:20:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Ned To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I'm confused! Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, Michelle wrote: > Okay, I'm confused, maybe someone can help me. I was rereading > the Diana Tregarde books the other night. In Children of the Night, it > appears that the story is set in the early seventies. She mentions > Watergate and IIRC that happened in 73 or so. Please excuse my knowledge > or lack thereof of American history and/or politics. Anyways, assuming > this is true, I am now massivly confused. I then assume that the book Jinx > High takes place sometimes after that. IO also assume, that it isn't > THAT many years later. so that would put it sometime in the seventies, Actually, it IS that many years later. Remember that Deke's dad had to go from being a hippie college student to being a very successful archetect: something which takes a long time. Wait a minute, an even more telling example is that Deke's parents got married after they graduated (there is a comment that the last time Deke's father (whose name I can't rememebr, and my books are in NY with my girlfriend) last saw Di at the wedding. Since Deke is now a senior in high school, Jinx High must be about 18 years or so later. So, guesstimate timeline: graduation '71-72 Children of the Night '73 Jinx High '89 It's very approximate, but even if you disregard the internal clues (AIDS, "bored rich kid mentality", etc..), Jinx High would still have to take place in the late 80's Zhai'helleva Ned > Ned Adams aka S. Baldrick Sometimes it is better to light a sbaldric-+AT+-roanoke.infi.net flamethrower than to curse the darkness (540) 890-0212 (T. Pratchett) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:58:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine Osborne To: mercedes lackey list Subject: many things (inc. Di, Empire religions, music.) Message-ID: 1) CotN takes place in 1973, because of the "new Watergate" discussions. Internal evidence (like an actual date!) says 1986 for either Jinx High or Burning Water (which is *before* Jinx High). I forget which, and I dont' have my damn books with me! ;) Also, I think Di says no-one really understands what is up with AIDS somewhere, which would place it somewhere in mid-80s, before the massive education-prevention efforts of the late 80s and the present. 2) (this is not a spoiler) In Storm Rising, Tremane keeps calling on the *Hundred* Little Gods, not the forty. 3) I have not heard any lackey filk, mostly because I keep forgetting to call for the catalogue ;) I have, however, written a vocal arrangement for "Shadow-Lover" (no actual music, cause I don't play anything) which I'm rather fond of. ;) In other music, my tastes are very catholic, even if nothing else about me is ;) I like most things except rap and country, but am particularly partial to classical (Bach), jazz, blues, the Beatles, and alternative rock (esp. Catherine Wheel, Nirvana, and more "melodic" bands.) ok, signing off... I\/ Catherine Osborne "I will not go down to I\/ Sundancer posterity talking bad I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu grammar." I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ --Disraeli ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:35:48 EST From: "Aphrael" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: I wanna move to Valdemar! Message-ID: I just logged into my other list, and one of the members took the Pope's visit as an opportunity to smear Roman Catholicism. :( Lyn is NOT a happy camper. I wanna move to Valdemar! We take our religious freedom for granted until someone takes it away. Hope no one minds the off-topic babbling, but given the "No 'one true way,'" thing, I kind of thought you'd understand. Lyn Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* For as to the stage, love is ever a matter of comedies, and now and then of tragedies: but in life it doth much mischief; sometimes like a siren, sometimes like a fury. -from "Of Love" by Sir Francis Bacon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:10:04 -0400 From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Star-eyed aspects Message-ID: <199510061410.KAA25605-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> >> There is also a song called "Wind's 4 Quarters", >>from Firebird Arts and Music; I think Misty wrote it/sang it, but I'm not >>certain. >>I'm blanking on some of the words or I would quote a few stanzas, but it is >>a VERY good song...I strongly recommend it. >> >> Dave > >In the back of Oathbreakers called Shin'a'in Song of the Seasons describing >both the four-aspected male and female deities of the Shin'a'in . Since I >don't have time to transcribe the song in full, here is a summary - > >East Wind (Spring) > Male-Rover > Female-Maiden > >South Wind (Summer) > Male-Guardian > Female-Warrior > >West Wind (Fall) > Male-Hunter > Female-Mother > >North Wind (Winter) > Male- Guide > Female-Crone > >Helen >h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu > > This isn't the song I was thinking of, actually; Winds 4 Quarters makes no mention of the male god. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:01:54 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I wanna move to Valdemar! Message-ID: <199510061701.NAA14678-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Aphrael wrote: >I just logged into my other list, and one of the members took the >Pope's visit as an opportunity to smear Roman Catholicism. :( >Lyn is NOT a happy camper. >I wanna move to Valdemar! >We take our religious freedom for granted until someone takes it away. >Hope no one minds the off-topic babbling, but given the "No 'one true >way,'" thing, I kind of thought you'd understand. Me, too. I want to move away from a world where world-religious leaders think that the dictates of their religion gives them the right to try to insist that the 'world government' classify women as incubators once they become pregnant and the right to slam women's rights' conferences for disagreeing with their positions on the relationship between physical intimacy, reproduction, and evil. I want to move away from a world where the dominant religion has a long history of solving problems of heresy by killing the heretics, even if they aren't really heretics because they're not members of the religion. I want to move away from a world in which world-religious leaders seem to treat the murder of people they disagree with as a necessary evil. Sorry for the rant, but I really don't think that Roman Catholicism and the Pope are innocent victims of intolerance, or that those who dislike, slam, or hate Roman Catholicism are just out to make your life miserable. Most of the people I know who really dislike Roman Catholicism do so because of the ways in which organized Roman Catholicism tries to *prevent* society from accepting that there is no one, true way. And you haven't had your freedom of religion taken away until someone bans the intoxicant your religion uses in its rituals or someone uses their religion as an excuse to get books on your religion banned or someone insists on school prayer being drawn from their religion or... There's a big difference between having to listen to someone rant against your religion and having someone try or succeed in taking your religious freedom away. Frankly, I don't think Christians of any flavor are in danger of the latter. -jenneke PS. Yes, this is a hot button. I'm truly sick of listening to American Christians complain that people disagree with their doctrines and their tactics, given what's been done in the past and is being done in the present to suppress other religions in the name of Christianity. I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:56:12 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: many things (inc. Di, Empire religions, music.) Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Catherine Osborne wrote: > > 2) (this is not a spoiler) In Storm Rising, Tremane keeps calling on the > *Hundred* Little Gods, not the forty. Most of the time in Storm Warning it is something like "in the name of the forty little gods" and a few times "hundred" is mentioned. Maybe when you're more desperate you call on more gods??? Cecile ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 168 *********************************