MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 172 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by "Cecile S. Ueltschey" 2) Enough! I'm sorry, already! by "Aphrael" 3) RE: Another Companion Thought by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 4) RE: Older Chosen by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 5) Re: Tylendal by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 6) Re: Lifebonds by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 7) Re: Misty's Music by BreIvane-+AT+-aol.com 8) Re: Choosing Kero by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 9) RE: Kal'enedral by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 10) Re:Misty's Music by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 11) RE: Catholic Bashing and All That Jazz by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 12) Re: Enough! I'm sorry, already! by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 13) _Jinx High_ by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 14) Re: Star-eyed aspects by ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) 15) LONG!!: Maps for planet... by Vivian Choh 16) Re: _Jinx High_ by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) 17) RE: Kal'enedral by h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) 18) Vrondi etc. by mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) 19) RE: Kal'enedral by RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com 20) Re: _Jinx High_ by "Kristine E. Johnston" 21) Re: Storm Warning (God question) by dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:28:35 -0500 (CDT) From: "Cecile S. Ueltschey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Oct 1995, Jeanne Hedge wrote: > > "The Oathbound", the scene where the priest is trying to restore Tarma's > bond with the Star-eyed, Kethry is told to "tell the Warrior that the bond > has been broken and needs to be restored..." So Kethry is begging the Lady > to hear her, and then Star-eyed replies (on pg 296): > "I am nothing but another face of your own Lady Windborn -- how could I not > know you?" > Guess I forgot about that one - thanks, Jeanne! I stand corrected. However, that's not the quote I was thinking of - I know there's a spot earlier than that, maybe before they even get to Mornedelth?? Oh memory, where hast thou gone????? Age is a terrible thing - sometimes. Cecile ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:12:37 EST From: "Aphrael" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Enough! I'm sorry, already! Message-ID: Is it safe to come out yet? I just want to say that I did NOT in any way, shape, or form mean to start that religion thread going. My thanks to those who came to my defense and said (a whole heck of a lot more eloquently) what I was trying to. Oh well. I *thought* I was just whining to a bunch of friends, which I assumed this relatively close-knit list to be. I'm sorry. Again, I'm sorry for any inconvenience my post may have spawned. Lyn Belzer Lyn Belzer * P.O. Box 234 St. Bonaventure, NY 14778 * 716/379-3034 ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* For as to the stage, love is ever a matter of comedies, and now and then of tragedies: but in life it doth much mischief; sometimes like a siren, sometimes like a fury. -from "Of Love" by Sir Francis Bacon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:15:15 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Another Companion Thought Message-ID: <951009141515.21a38115-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> >> Another thought along these lines--what happens to lifebonded Heralds? If >> they come back as Companions, wouldn't they have to kind of stick together? >> Assuming that they'd both reincarnate at about the same time, which I think >> is reasonable. >Could it be that each half comes back as a Herald-Companion set? I mean, >we have see that heralds also come back as humans, as well as companions, >so it doesn't seem unreasonable that if one would be reborn into a human, >the other would choose him/her. Note the word, lifebonded. Not eternity bonded. Maybe that's just convenient but I choose to think it's significant. The two individuals are bonded for life. That doesn't mean that their feelings disappear when they "move on", but they are moving on. One could be reborn as a Companion, whilst the other stays in the Havens (isn't that the Valdemaren name for the spiritual plane?). Or both could move into the spirit world together. Or both reborn as Companions. After all, we don't have any information on the lifebonding or non-lifebonding or Companions. In addition, when Vanyel "died" the first time, he was given more choices than average. I think that each Herald chooses whether to return to Valdemar or move on in the spiritual plane. Yet another reason I don't believe all Companions are ex-Heralds. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:20:11 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Older Chosen Message-ID: <951009142011.21a38115-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> >Jeanne Hedge said: >> If people are older than "kids" when Chosen, do they have to go thru the >> whole Herald-Trainee, Gray-wearing, Collegium business? The books seem to >> contradict themselves on this.> >> In "Arrows of the Queen", Sherril tells Talia that Elcarth wasn't Chosen >> until he was 20 and didn't get his Whites until 3 years later. But in "By >> the Sword" Kero is Chosen on the battlefield, and apparently very shortly >> thereafter is standing around on the roof of the palace musing about what to >> do with her Company and the "special classes" the Heralds wanted her to take >> - but she's wearing *Whites* while all this is going on (she's also >> complaining about having to wear an "oh shoot me now" uniform). Teren was >> Chosen after he was married and had kids - does anybody remember if the >> books say anything about how long it took him to go thru the Collegium, or >> if he even had to? >> Jennie replies: >The way I look at it is that if you are choosen as an adult you have to go >through classes, but I think that the classes that you have to take are only >ones that you have no experience in. Like Kero would not have to take classes >on warfare or stratagy. They would be redunant. The classes that the 'older' >choosen would have to take would be ones that they had no experience in. So the >amount of time that it would take to get your whites would depend on the type >of experience you have. Sorry don't know anything about Teren's studies. How about this: when the average person graduates from high school they have (theoretically anyway) a certain level of education, call it hs. If they continue on to College they now have hs+C knowledge. Grad school adds hs+C+G. Life experience is a seperate type of knowledge. So just like in many professional jobs, life experience may count for up to 2 years of college education, for example. In other words, an older chosen has hs + C but not G. He/She may need some grad school to be the equivalent of another person in the same job. Similarly that older chosen, with the type of experiences Kero has had may need a religion class, and a language class, but meanwhile be teaching weapons and strategy. A "grad school" student, teaching while still learning. This may not make nearly as much sense as I'd hoped, but I hope you guys will figure out what I mean. StarWolf (who can't even get her usename right in some posts today :( ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:25:46 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendal Message-ID: <951009142546.21a38115-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> >> >> The other object of interest that I wanted to comment on was the >> relationship between Tylendal and Gala. Tylendal specifically states >> that the relationship between him and Gala was one of inferior to >> superior. Does this strike anyone as unusual? I certainly do! I >> have to wander if his bond to Gala was not as strong as everyone >> thought. The simple fact that he could hide the full extent of the >> bond between him and Staven I think effectively points this out. >> >Hey, David! I agree with you on this one! First, a relationship which >is based on that sort of disparity seems to me to be bound for serious >trouble. I see the Herald/Companion bond to be closer than most >marriages and the sheer number of successful, long-term Herald/Companion >bonds is an indication that they are usually on an equal level. >As for your second point: not only is the fact that he could hide his >bond with his brother points out the weakness of his bond with Gala, but >that he even wanted to in the first place! One example from real life >that illustrates this is if you were in a serious relationship with >your SO, and you also had a very good friend of the opposite sex, would >you try to hide this relationship from your SO? Wouldn't trying to hide >this show that you possibly aren't as committed to your SO as you >thought? It's funny but I see this stuff really differently. I look at Tylendel as a young man, with many difficulties - his choosing didn't happen as soon as it should have, his brother is beleaguered by the Leshara, he is Shaych, which is barely tolerated at court, and he now has a new lover who is completely dependent on him. So he's been chosen. That doesn't automatically make him a mature adult. He's adolescent. He hasn't even gotten his whites yet. And his relationship with Gala reflects this. Instead of pretending he is strong, doesn't care for other's opinions, etc he can just let down with her. And being immature, rather than just being himself, he allows himself to be dependent in their relationship. I think that if Tylendel had lived, he and Gala would eventually have developed a partnership. I'm not saying every companion-bond is this way. Just that in Lendel's case, he let Gala take the dominant position, to mother him in some ways, because he NEEDED her to be that way. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:28:31 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lifebonds Message-ID: <951009142831.21a38115-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> >> Perhaps Ratha was boosting Eldan's Mindspeech ability? He approved >> of Kero and understood why she had to leave Eldan, but perhaps he >> recognized the Herald potential in her and in some strange Companion >> Foresight recognized that she would be needed in the future. Kero's >> relationship with Eldan created a link through which Kero got to >> Valdemar (simplifying a bit) and helped i the war effort and got >> finally Chosen. >What about this: They wouldn't be able to mindspeak over that >distance, usually. But remember, mostly, Kero was asleep when she >"spoke" with Eldan. Trance enhances the Gifts, doesn't it? So, if >Eldan entered a trance while Kero was asleep, he might be able to >reach her. I don't think they would have been able to communicate >with ordinary Mindspeak, otherwise. Hoo Boy. I realize I'm contradicting the AUTHOR here, but it just doesn't wash with me. Yes, Kero and Eldan were both unconscious (asleep) when they "connected". Basically they were in a trance. But I just don't see anything but a lifebond reaching that far. Oh well. She's the author. I guess we'll have to believe that a "really strong love" will allow this sort of reach for their mindbond. StarWolf (who isn't gonna buy into this. Kero and Eldan are lifebonded, maybe Misty just doesn't know it yet ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 17:33:14 -0400 From: BreIvane-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty's Music Message-ID: <951009173314_72400294-+AT+-mail04.mail.aol.com> Firebird Arts and Music.....the have an online catolog on the internet....the address is: http://www.usa.net/firebird/ thats there homepage....just look there...if you want an adress you'll have to wait...got to find it... :::grin::: Bre Ivane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:32:10 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Choosing Kero Message-ID: <951009143210.21a38115-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> >> Beautifully put, Helen. That is exactly what I was getting at, but >> couldn't put into words. It was her experiences in being Captain that >> tipped the balance as it were. I also think the timing in the war with >> Hardorn was critical, from the Valdemaran perspective. By the time Talia >> and Dirk showed up in Rethwellan, they were ready to try ANYTHING, >> including mercenaries - which means they were pretty desperate, given the >> bad feelings left from the Tedrel Wars. Kero's Choosing cemented that >> aspect of the alliance (i.e. - if the Captain is a Herald, then the >> company can't be so bad, right?) >> >Just to make sure I understand Cecile and Helen...You both think that had Kero >gone to Valdemar with Eldan (ten years prior), Kero would not have been >chosen, yes? OK. I'll buy that! >So what do y'all think that Ratha was hemming and hawing about? I'm assuming >that Ratha was saying "if she got to Valdemar then--- " at THAT particular >point in time (and not in the distant future, as it happened)... I think you were right the first time. I think Ratha was hemming and hawing about "if she got to Valdemar then--- maybe she'll be chosen". Ratha wasn't sure, because Kero hadn't shown that she could care about Valdemar yet. But I think that if Kero had reached Valdemar at that point, it would have been to the long-term detriment of Valdemar. Valdemar needed Kero to be there when Talia and Dirk visited the king's court in Rethwellen. Valdemar needed Kero WITH the Skybolts. Valdemar needed Daren. So while I strongly think Kero would have been chosen had she ventured to Valdemar before, she wasn't fully ready, and she hadn't become all that she could have. StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:38:59 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Kal'enedral Message-ID: <951009143859.21a38115-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> >I just re-read Oathbreakers last night, and I came across some relevant >quotations regarding recent discussions. >As to the reincarnation of Heralds as Companions, but from the Star-Eyed's >perspective as Tarma had called upon her to help her decide whether to trust >those planning Stefansen's gaining the throne- >* And you, My gentle Child - * She continued, caressing the white horse's >shining neck [Roald's Companion] *-are leshya'e Kal'enedral of another sort, >hmmm? Like My Hands, and unlike....." >and as the leshya'e Kal'enedral are incarnations of former Kal'enedral like >the Firecats are reincarnations of former Vkandis Prophets, it does provide >earlier "proof" that the Companions are reincarnated Heralds. Proves that Roald's Companion is a reincarnated Herald, perhaps. Or does it? Proves that the companion is a spirit creature, for sure. But that was never in doubt (not since Quentin met one anyway). But I think you are jumping a bit to assume that ALL companions are reincarnated Heralds because of this comment. In addition the Star-Eyed says something to the effect = should I see if a few of my Kal'enedral would become such as you, sable to your white? And the companion looks offended. And of course the comment that the herald Roald is just as Tarma, i.e. they serve similar functions to their Gods. But she says something like "child of my other self". And comments to the effect that "both of you fight to drive back the true darkness". All of this says to me that the Star-Eyed feels great kinship with the deity that created the companions. That they are as brother and sister, or sister and sister (since we don't know the deity's sex). NOT that the Star-Eyed is claiming to be the companions creator. >I never happened to take this comment literally before, but reading it again >last night, it just struck me on how it could be taken literally, as opposed >to figuratively as I had previously considered it. >As to Kal'enedral as priest- >This takes place after Kethry was lethally struck down after the Duel Arcane >with Char's Mage and Tarma calls upon the Warrior- >"Thrusting a blood-drenched fist at the sky, she summoned all the power that >was hers as Kal'enedral, as priestess, as Swordsworn warrior- power she had >never taken, never used. She flung back her head, and screamed a name into >the uncaring, gray sky, a name that tore her throat even as her heart was >torn......" Thanks. I was about to type this in. It clearly states she is priestess. >So Tarma just isn't a good example of Kal'enedral as priestess since she never >truly identifies herself with that aspect of her role as Swordsworn except in >extreme moments. She doesn't identify with that aspect, but she does claim it. StarWolf (having a great deal of fun with this ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:50:33 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Misty's Music Message-ID: <951009145033.21a38115-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> Cool a new topic! I have "Herald's, Harpers and Havoc", "ShadowStalker", "By The Sword" (listening to it even as I type), "Lovers, Lore and Loss" from Misty's stuff. I also picked up Wanderlust from Heather Alexander, and 2 Tempest - "Serrated Edge" and "Surfing to Mecca". In other words, Misty's introduced me to a whole nother genre of music. I'm spending every spare dime on CDs these days. I picked up 3 of these at a recent Con here in Phoenix. Anyway, I love Heather Alexander's voice and music, and have decided that "Wanderlust" is my favorite of all these. Of the direct Misty stuff, "ShadowStalker" is absolutely awesome, "By the Sword" is really good, though I prefer Heather to Meg Davis' voice. I haven't been able to really get into "Lovers, Lore and Loss" on which Misty sings a lot. Frankly, while she writes some really awesome music, her voice just isn't as good as some of these other folk. Plus, since Vanyel and Kero are my two favorites, obviously I like "their" music best. Although you've just got to hear "Threes" on "Heralds, Harpers and Havoc." And let's not forget "Dark and Stormy Night", the funniest song I've ever heard. And then there's "The Face Within", basically Alberich's song. Possibly my favorite. Unfortunately, there's a bunch of songs on this one that I don't like, otherwise HH&H would be my favorite. I use this stuff as background music to my workday a lot, and HH&H has some very grating songs, like the two Sun & Shadow songs. BTW, I can't thank all of you enough for telling me about Firebird Music, and introducing me to the music of Tempest. I never knew Celtic Rock existed, and I'm now totally hooked. Just bought a double-CD of Steeleye Span that I hope to have a chance to listen to soon. Any other suggestions about music from groups similar to Tempest are eagerly solicited. And again, as my put on this, Heather Alexander's Wanderlust is an easy, fun, tremendously enjoyable set of music that I love dearly. If anyone didn't like it, let me know! I'd be very curious why! StarWolf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 18:14:32 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Catholic Bashing and All That Jazz Message-ID: <199510092214.SAA15987-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Katherine M. Brielmaier wrote: >As regards the recent comments on Catholicism, Christianity, and religions >in general, I would like to make a few comments. >Uh, hey guys? There is no one, true way, remember? I remember. That does not prevent me from speaking up when someone who is a member of the dominant religion on this planet complains about having her freedom of religion taken away because someone voiced derogatory opinions of that religion. Especially when said religion seems to have no qualms about voicing derogatory opinions of other religions. It's not that I have objections to anyone being a member of said religion. It's that claiming to be losing one's freedom of religion because someone dared to vocally express dissatisfaction with the actions of the religion when people of other religions are being legally denied the right to practice their religion and, in fact, losing jobs and children because of their religion, is HYPOCRITICAL. >Don't blame religions, though I will admit that they are the cause of most >of the pain and suffering in the world. Religion will always be with us. >Why not work to solve the problem, instead if wasting time arguing about >who or what caused it? I do. But, IMO, part of the problem is people who think that being *forced* to listen to opinions derogatory to their religion (by having said opinions voiced on a mailing list) is having their freedoms and rights taken away from them. Sorry, but it just ain't so. Stacy Hunt Duvall wrote: > But I think >that what Aphael was trying to say is that she felt that this was a list >that had some tolerance, that would accept the beliefs of a person, even if >they don't agree. Such a condemnation of what may be her faith is a bit >harsh, IMHO. I have perfect tolerance for her religious beliefs. I have no tolerance for her claim that voicing opinions which are not complimentary to her religion is equivalent in any way to denying her her freedom of religion or even affecting it in any way. Even in Valdemar, I don't think she would escape people having and voicing derogatory opinions about her religion. The distinction is that, in Valdemar, she wouldn't have to worry, as the non-Christians in the US do, that the majority will vote that not establishing an official Church means that they can establish an official religion and require everyone to be a part of that religion and just choose their own sect (part of the Religious Right has been trying for years to convince people that the word Church in the Bill of Rights refers to sect of Christianity, not religion). It also means that she wouldn't have to worry about the government declaring a substance she uses in her rituals to be harmful and banned for all purposes (peyote is an integral part of certain Southwestern Native American religious rituals, but the use of it for these rituals (or any other purpose) is banned, and people have lost jobs over it). Even on Earth, as a member of the dominant religion, the most she has to worry about is having to listen to people ranting against her religion, which isn't even harassment unless it's her boss doing the ranting. THIS IS NOT BEING DENIED HER FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Period. -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 18:21:44 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Enough! I'm sorry, already! Message-ID: <199510092221.SAA16001-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Aphrael wrote: >Is it safe to come out yet? Of course. >I *thought* I was just whining to a bunch of friends, which I assumed >this relatively close-knit list to be. I'm sorry. You were. But if one's friends won't tell one when one is being a hypocrite, who will? (That there's any chance of one listening to, that is.) -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 18:33:20 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: _Jinx High_ Message-ID: <199510092233.SAA16005-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> OKay, so, following the recommendations of this crowd, I went out and bought and read _Jinx High_ (as being the Di Tregarde book with characters I sort of know from the SERRAted Edge books). Now, I have a few questions... First, is it just me or does it seem odd that the kid of a pair of not-particularly-well-off cattle farmers would be going to Jenks High? >From the descriptions of the county, one wouldn't think that there was a cattle farm within 30 miles of the place. Also, I don't remember the Drake farm being in Jenks County in _Chrome Circle_... Second, why didn't Fay Parker go after Tannim? He was a handsome, powerful, Sighted guy with relatively easily gotten rid of parents and no siblings or other close relatives. Third, does it seem entirely crazy that the woman Di knows who "talks to God" when she ingests caffeine is an elf who hasn't seen fit to inform Di yet? Fourth, it doesn't seem like Deke and Tannim are as close in _JH_ as Tannim remembers them being in _CC_. Is their buddy-dom solely from senior year? That would mean that Deke adjusted *real* fast to being Gifted, since Tannim reminisces about doing road jobs with Deke during high school at the beginning of _CC_. Thoughts on a first reading, -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 95 17:35 CDT From: ristuben-+AT+-webstar.net (erik ristuben) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Star-eyed aspects Message-ID: >On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, David K. Storrs wrote (among other things not quoted here) > >> -- Not to start a new thread or anything, but does anyone else out there >> have/enjoy Misty's music/filk in general? Yes, yes and double yes. Anyone else out there moved to tears by the entire cd "Shadowstalker" ? Although almost a year late in the production, Firebird Arts & Music delivered the promised release into my sweaty little hands and it's been love ever since! The song "Shadowlover" and "Windrider Unchained" are two of the most hauntingly beautiful songs I've ever had the pleasure of hearing. Misty and crew....Bravissimo! Firefly ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 21:57:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Vivian Choh To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list Subject: LONG!!: Maps for planet... Message-ID: Hi all, First off, I was wondering if there maps of the planet are available (I guess that those who patronise the stores carrying Misty filk would know best?)? BTW, what the heck is the planet called? I know that Velgarth is supposed to be the universe, so what's the planet name? There's a quote in BTS where Kero makes a mental map of all the countries that she knows (to check out the Valdemar/Hardorn situation): "mental map...as far north as the mountains above Valdemar, and as far south as the Bitter Sea; west to the Pelagirs and the Plains, east to the High Kingdom of Brendan." Now on our maps, the farthest east that we get to "see" are the countries Hardorn and Ruvan. Is the High Kingdom of Brendan the "official" name for the Eastern Empire, or is it a country that we've not yet been introduced to? Can I assume the former since the Eastern Empire is supposed to be humongous? Next related topic: In all of our maps, there is a dashed line that seems to me, indicates the Shina'in and Tayledras (sp?) (herein defined as "Kaledin" so that I don't have to type out the two names each time I want to refer to them) territories. This line seems to intersect quite a few countries (Jkatha, Rethwellen and Valdemar). (BTW, best example of this is in Winds of Change (Winds II), first map; all the maps are slightly different and the dashed line doesn't appear too well in the other books). I think we discussed this before, but I've forgotten, or we never did come to a consensus (or I just missed it..)...How does governing work in the Kaledin territories, esp. when one takes into consideration that Kaledin territory is part of three separate countries? Finally, did Misty make a mistake when referring to the origin of Geyr's dogs (or have I misinterpreted again?). Kero is musing "We were coming up through Ruvan, along the Pelagiris Forest; we met with a couple of the cousins...etc (stuff about Kra'heera)". Seeing as how, according to the maps, the Pelagiris Forest's eastern edge lies in Jkatha, did Kero/Misty mean to say "coming up through Jkatha"? Ruvan is entirely east of Jkatha and does not appear to intersect any of the Kaledin territories... Sorry, just full of questions today...You can probably blame the people who started the questions re: what the different countries are. It made me look at the maps and from there I just had to figure out the paths that Kero took (from the flight into Valdemar, then out, to the final scene of the Hardorn/Valdemar conflict....Next up, the infiltration of Elspeth and co. into Hardorn....:) ) Vivian Choh bi189-+AT+-torfree.net v.choh-+AT+-utoronto.ca "I am all that I claim to be. I simply have not claimed all that I am." - M. Lackey, "Oathbreakers" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 12:53:39 EST From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: _Jinx High_ Message-ID: <9510100253.AA16259-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com> Jenneke wrote: > OKay, so, following the recommendations of this crowd, I went out and > bought and read _Jinx High_ (as being the Di Tregarde book with > characters I sort of know from the SERRAted Edge books). Now, I have > a few questions... Hmmm. I hadn't even thought of half of your questions.. :) Well, I can make up answers.. whether or not they're correct, now that's another story. :) > First, is it just me or does it seem odd that the kid of a pair of > not-particularly-well-off cattle farmers would be going to Jenks High? Actually not from my perspective. I grew up in the country in Australia and it's not unusual for cattle farmers to send their kids to the best school they can - often some distance away, sometimes as boarders (though I don't think Tannim was boarding). The not-particularly-well-off is a relative term too - people with that background don't tend to have the living/entertainment/lifestyle expenses that the 'rich' living in cities do. Of course, I have no idea whether that holds for the US or the county where Jinx High was set. > >From the descriptions of the county, one wouldn't think that there was > a cattle farm within 30 miles of the place. Also, I don't remember > the Drake farm being in Jenks County in _Chrome Circle_... > Second, why didn't Fay Parker go after Tannim? He was a handsome, > powerful, Sighted guy with relatively easily gotten rid of parents and > no siblings or other close relatives. Possible answers/factors - Faye doesn't have mage-sight & she moved in different crowds, she may simply not have spotted Tannim as a target in the arcane sense. Secondly Tannim had Fox & Cthliss (sp?) who probably gave him at least some training in an informal manner.. and I get the impression that at least to some extent strong psi's can get by on instinct. ie, they learn to shield instinctively and keep a low profile etc. Also it's possible that the shields Tannim recalls setting (in Chrome Circle) were set before he met Di.. ie he was practicing magic in some forms even if he had no external proof it existed. (How many of us have imagined auras and all of that sort of stuff as kids, pretending it was real..) [Slight tangent: I'm not going to comment, nor am I going to indicate one way or the other on the list as a whole, my opinion as to whether said 'stuff' is real or not.. No flame wars. :) ] Oh lord.. d'y'know.. I'd always wondered idly who the spirit in the guitar was.. it just occurred to me that it was probably Fox (FX). Another question.. is Tannim psi? What's his gift? Hmmm, it occurs to me belatedly that Di must have been picking up on his Mage-gift (or the Di world equivalent).. and also that Faye is one of the trained-will sorceresses - she doesn't have a natural gift. > Third, does it seem entirely crazy that the woman Di knows who "talks > to God" when she ingests caffeine is an elf who hasn't seen fit to > inform Di yet? I am definitely going to have to read JH again.. missed that too. No, it doesn't seem crazy.. it seems likely in fact. (I can't remember, does Tannim say in Chrome Circle whether the elves know about Guardians? I know he does, but can't remember if that was because Di told him..) It's possible [barely] that Di *does* know about elves by JH as well, but it simply isn't mentioned - no elves in the area, no likelihood of them being involved or being able to help. (After all, she knows of vampires too, but doesn't mention them.. except by their first name..) :) > Fourth, it doesn't seem like Deke and Tannim are as close in _JH_ as > Tannim remembers them being in _CC_. Is their buddy-dom solely from > senior year? That would mean that Deke adjusted *real* fast to being > Gifted, since Tannim reminisces about doing road jobs with Deke during > high school at the beginning of _CC_. Hmmm. No idea.. Friendships can form fast, especially with such a common base.. (when is the prom in the year in the US - over here, it's *after* graduation - basically the last time you'll see a lot of people again). > Thoughts on a first reading, > -jenneke Struggling to answer. :) Kerry. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- Kerry J Mealing mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com "Curse the darkness? Hell, no! Where's that flamethrower?" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Oct 1995 11:45:55 -0500 From: h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu (Helen M. Wilfehrt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Kal'enedral Message-ID: <199510100442.AA023720137-+AT+-casbah.acns.nwu.edu> ***** indicates new paragraphs...... >>I just re-read Oathbreakers last night, and I came across some relevant >>quotations regarding recent discussions. > >>As to the reincarnation of Heralds as Companions, but from the Star-Eyed's >>perspective as Tarma had called upon her to help her decide whether to trust >>those planning Stefansen's gaining the throne- >>* And you, My gentle Child - * She continued, caressing the white horse's >>shining neck [Roald's Companion] *-are leshya'e Kal'enedral of another sort, >>hmmm? Like My Hands, and unlike....." >>and as the leshya'e Kal'enedral are incarnations of former Kal'enedral like >>the Firecats are reincarnations of former Vkandis Prophets, it does provide >>earlier "proof" that the Companions are reincarnated Heralds. > >Proves that Roald's Companion is a reincarnated Herald, perhaps. Or does it? >Proves that the companion is a spirit creature, for sure. But that was never >in doubt (not since Quentin met one anyway). But I think you are jumping >a bit to assume that ALL companions are reincarnated Heralds because of this >comment. ****Well, not ALL are - Grove-Born do seem to be new spirits to that world. I don't claim this based upon this comment alone - other references in other books later on in the storyline do provide more concrete clues to this. I only point this out since with 20-20 hindsight I realized how this section might be interpreted to support this concept. >In addition the Star-Eyed says something to the effect = should I see >if a few of my Kal'enedral would become such as you, sable to your white? >And the companion looks offended. And of course the comment that the >herald Roald is just as Tarma, i.e. they serve similar functions to their >Gods. But she says something like "child of my other self". And comments >to the effect that "both of you fight to drive back the true darkness". >All of this says to me that the Star-Eyed feels great kinship with the >deity that created the companions. That they are as brother and sister, >or sister and sister (since we don't know the deity's sex). NOT that >the Star-Eyed is claiming to be the companions creator. > >>I never happened to take this comment literally before, but reading it again >>last night, it just struck me on how it could be taken literally, as opposed >>to figuratively as I had previously considered it. [snip] >StarWolf (having a great deal of fun with this ) ****I wouldn't have thought that the Star-Eyed was claiming to have created the Companions, rather I was just trying to point out how the different Deities do seem to utilize similar "tricks" to aid their Chosen people and that the various parallels between the attendants/servants (I use this term as a generic for Avatars, Priests, Spirits such as FireCats, Kalenedral, and Companions) of different Deities might indicate these similarities in approach. Hence, since the Star-Eyed recognizes the Valdemaran Companion as a parallel to Her own Kal'en'edral, one might interpret this as an early (storyline-wise) clue that the Companions might be reincarnated servants like how the Kalenedral are for the Star-Eyed - in a book that predates others with more concrete suggestions that many Companions are reincarnated Heralds. Helen h-wilfehrt-+AT+-nwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 12:03:33 +0100 From: mel (Melanie Dymond Harper) To: mercedes-lackey Subject: Vrondi etc. Message-ID: <9510101103.AA25302-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> This thread probably died out while I was away, but I just finished rereading the LHM books, so I thought I'd trot out a wee bit of evidence. We were discussing whether the vrondi were able to recognise that someone using magic was an "authorised" mage. I still think not; in the scene where Van has gone off into the forest at Forst Reach, just before he encounters the mage who attempts to assassinate Treesa (this is in _Magic's Price_), he works some magic and gets tapped on the shoulder (virtually speaking) by a vrondi. He then tells it the correct response and it leaves him alone, which implies that it couldn't just recognise him as a Herald (and therefore authorised). Cheers Mel. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 6:33:30 -0600 (MDT) From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Kal'enedral Message-ID: <951010063330.21a38115-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com> (I snipped so much that nothing's left ) About the discussion that Companions are reincarnated Heralds. I will restate my theory (since there's a lot of newbies to this list) and see who jumps out this time I think that there are 3 types of Companions, not 2. There are the Grove Born, who seem to be "higher" guardian spirits. There are reincarnated Heralds, this seems fairly clear from a large number of clues, and becomes more and more obvious in the later books. BUT! I think that there are extremely few Grove Born, in fact only 2 that we know of. And of the rest, I don't believe all of them are reincarnated Heralds. I think some are. But the rest are simply lower guardian spirits, benign spirits of the ethereal planes. There is, as far as I know, not one iota of proof that ALL non- Groveborn Companions are ex-Heralds. Some certainly. Like Sayvil, and a few others. But every one??? Nope, don't buy it. Anyone want to offer some more *proof*?? StarWolf (get this discussion going, why don't I?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:07:23 CST From: "Kristine E. Johnston" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: _Jinx High_ Message-ID: As far as cattle farmers sending kids to schools with a better tax base, I believe it. I live the U.S. midwest, the farm kids are the ones with the money. Also it is easily possible that the farm was inside the lines of the (cant think of the word, y'know, how school systems are divided up). Example: Davenport Iowa, on the map it looks big but I swear half the city is incorporated farmland. They have neighborhoods hidden in the middle of cornfields. You drive down a gravel road and then turn onto concrete, its really weird. I was under the impression that Oklahoma(?) was the same way. Not trying to be mean or anything but do you live in a city suburb or something? Maybe its just a farming area thing. D'accord Je t'aime, au revoir au revoir!!!! Kristy Johnston Augustana Rock Island, Illinois ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:35:33 -0400 From: dstorrs-+AT+-crossover.com (David K. Storrs) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm Warning (God question) Message-ID: <199510101435.KAA03198-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> >> >> "The Oathbound", the scene where the priest is trying to restore Tarma's >> bond with the Star-eyed, Kethry is told to "tell the Warrior that the bond >> has been broken and needs to be restored..." So Kethry is begging the Lady >> to hear her, and then Star-eyed replies (on pg 296): >> "I am nothing but another face of your own Lady Windborn -- how could I not >> know you?" >> > >Cecile > > HAH! Vindication! I _knew_ that line was out there, even if I couldn't remember the exact quote or page! HEH! :> Dave *feeling more than a bit pleased* ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 172 *********************************