MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 176 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: lifebonds by Mat Timmerman 2) Re: _Jinx High_ by Mat Timmerman 3) RE: Kal'enedral(+ SPOILER) by PTJ-+AT+-badger.demon.co.uk (Philip Johnson) 4) Reincarnations (was RE: Kal'enedral) by Mat Timmerman 5) Re: _Jinx High_ by carmel-+AT+-glen-net.ca (Carmel Vivier) 6) Re: Mage Storms Questions (SPOILERS) (was RE: Kal'enedral) by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 7) Re: Misty's Music by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 8) Re: Book blurbs by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 9) Re: sorry, I forgot by gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) 10) Re: sorry, I forgot by "Jennifer S. Broekman" 11) Re: physical science in Valdemar by John Oliver 12) Re: Book blurbs by "Jennifer S. Broekman" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 15:43:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: lifebonds Message-ID: <01HWE9L5H8TU8ZHQ8Y-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> >From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com > >>> Perhaps Ratha was boosting Eldan's Mindspeech ability? He approved >>> of Kero and understood why she had to leave Eldan, but perhaps he >>> recognized the Herald potential in her and in some strange Companion >>> Foresight recognized that she would be needed in the future. Kero's >>> relationship with Eldan created a link through which Kero got to >>> Valdemar (simplifying a bit) and helped i the war effort and got >>> finally Chosen. > >>What about this: They wouldn't be able to mindspeak over that >>distance, usually. But remember, mostly, Kero was asleep when she >>"spoke" with Eldan. Trance enhances the Gifts, doesn't it? So, if >>Eldan entered a trance while Kero was asleep, he might be able to >>reach her. I don't think they would have been able to communicate >>with ordinary Mindspeak, otherwise. > > >Hoo Boy. I realize I'm contradicting the AUTHOR here, but it just >doesn't wash with me. Yes, Kero and Eldan were both unconscious (asleep) >when they "connected". Basically they were in a trance. But I >just don't see anything but a lifebond reaching that far. Oh well. >She's the author. I guess we'll have to believe that a "really strong >love" will allow this sort of reach for their mindbond. > >StarWolf (who isn't gonna buy into this. Kero and Eldan are lifebonded, >maybe Misty just doesn't know it yet ) Why do we all assume that a lifebond could give them (or anyone) the extra power to communicate? Lifebonds seem to be a soul/heart-connection, not a mental one. The "communications" we've seen through lifebonds are always feelings, not thoughts. IMO, a bond (if they had one, which I don't believe, esp. after Misty's QO comments) could let the pair feel each other, but not speak. A better explanation seems to be the DreamTime. Mat T. P.S. This message is a few days late b/c I accidently got unsubscribed. I don't know how it happened, but when I got no mail for around three days, I guessed that the list wasn't just really quiet. So I checked and, sure enough, I wasn't on the list. Any idea what happened Mel? I only got this message by looking through the archives (which are a _good_ thing :) ). -- Mat Timmerman "They want to stop the ones who want accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu prosthetic foreheads on their heads. But mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on their real heads." -- They Might Be Giants ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 15:57:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: _Jinx High_ Message-ID: <01HWEATMZCKO8ZHQ8Y-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> >From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" a bunch of stuff snipped... > >Fourth, it doesn't seem like Deke and Tannim are as close in _JH_ as >Tannim remembers them being in _CC_. Is their buddy-dom solely from >senior year? That would mean that Deke adjusted *real* fast to being >Gifted, since Tannim reminisces about doing road jobs with Deke during >high school at the beginning of _CC_. It seems like they became friends after the events of Jinx High. I don't remember if Tannim actually said that their "jobs" were during HS. I got the impression that they happened some time later. > >Thoughts on a first reading, >-jenneke Mat T. -- Mat Timmerman "They want to stop the ones who want accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu prosthetic foreheads on their heads. But mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on their real heads." -- They Might Be Giants ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 22:12:36 GMT From: PTJ-+AT+-badger.demon.co.uk (Philip Johnson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Kal'enedral(+ SPOILER) Message-ID: <36509-+AT+-badger.demon.co.uk> In message <199510111910.PAA05067-+AT+-prague.crossover.com> mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk writes: > > > > > > Here's a question for you; a Herald dies, and is given the choice > to come back as a Companion. He does, serves for a while, and then dies as > a Companion. What happens next? > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = In Storm Rising the Florian says something to Karel to the effect (I can't lay my habds on my copy at the moment, and senility is a terrible thing) that a Companion's perspective on various issues varies with "how many times they've been around". Apparently some of them are gluttions for punishment :-) Philip -- Philip Johnson 'Never do for yourself what you can con an expert into doing for you' Naismith: 'On War' 'A rational government wouldn't allow him possession of a pocket-knife, let alone a space fleet.' Cordelia, Countess Vorkosigan: 'On Naismith' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 18:28:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Mat Timmerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Reincarnations (was RE: Kal'enedral) Message-ID: <01HWEG8JP7C68ZHZHK-+AT+-vaxc.hofstra.edu> >From: RUNDLE-+AT+-wilma.bcasd.az.honeywell.com > >I don't have the quote on me, and won't have time to look it up >for a few days, so if someone else would, I'd appreciate it. >I think what Ulrich said/implied was that companions appear >to be reincarnated heralds, just as firecats are reincarnated >Sons of the Sun. However, he said this based on his meeting >with what, 1 or two companions? This in and of itself does >not refute my statement that not all non-grove-born (NGB) >companions are ex-heralds. In fact, I don't think Ulrich >is even that definite. But we'd need the exact quote to >deal with it further. >StarWolf I think that he said something about how Firecats are reincarnated Sons of the Son, just like Companions are reincarnated Heralds. While Natoli's father (blanked on the name here) looks shell shocked at the idea, Karal, I think says something about the reason that there are so many more Companions than Firecats is that there are a _lot_ more dead Heralds than dead Sons. > >------------------------------ > >From: "Sanna Koulu" > > Stacy Hunt DuVall wrote: > (liberally snipped, about Companions as reincarnated Heralds) (even more reincarnation stuff snipped) > >> Has there ever been anything from the books to suggest some one besides a >> former Herald becoming a Companion (besides Grove Born, of course)? I can't >> remember from the top of my head. Perhaps others who have been dedicated in >> the service of Valdemar are offered the option (Bards, Healers, Guards, ect.) >... > >I think it seems a bit unlikely, since Bards, for example, haven't >experienced the Companion-bond. OTOH there's no reason they couldn't - >though maybe they need Gifts to be Companions: the bond does require >some Gift at least on the Herald side. > There's one character that could be _really_ streching the whole reincarnation thing. I don't really even believe it myself, but it's kind of amusing. Based only on name similarities (as opposed to personality), could Treven (Randale's Heir & Jisa's husband) be reincarnated as Treyvan, the Gryphon???? :) Mat T. -- Mat Timmerman "They want to stop the ones who want accmjt-+AT+-hofstra.edu prosthetic foreheads on their heads. But mtimmerman1-+AT+-hofstra.edu everybody wants prosthetic foreheads on their real heads." -- They Might Be Giants ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 19:39:15 -0400 From: carmel-+AT+-glen-net.ca (Carmel Vivier) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: _Jinx High_ Message-ID: <199510132339.TAA28632-+AT+-sparc1.glen-net.ca> >>From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" > >a bunch of stuff snipped... > >> >>Fourth, it doesn't seem like Deke and Tannim are as close in _JH_ as >>Tannim remembers them being in _CC_. Is their buddy-dom solely from >>senior year? That would mean that Deke adjusted *real* fast to being >>Gifted, since Tannim reminisces about doing road jobs with Deke during >>high school at the beginning of _CC_. > >It seems like they became friends after the events of Jinx High. I don't >remember if Tannim actually said that their "jobs" were during HS. I >got the impression that they happened some time later. > >> >>Thoughts on a first reading, >>-jenneke > > >Mat T. I'm new to the list (I've just started reading ML books, Children of the Night and Burning Water) and don't know what book you are referring to when you use _CC_. Could someone enlighten me. I'm still waiting for Jinx High to come into the book store, looks like I've read these books out of order (Burning Water and Children of the Night and waiting to read Jinx High). Carmel Vivier *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- Sender: Carmel Vivier Saw-Whet Communications 975 Brookdale Ave., P.O.Box 22006 Cornwall, ON K6J 5M9 Tel: (613) 938-0968 Fax: (613)938-1481 e-mail: carmel-+AT+-saw-whet.ca *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 17:05:58 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mage Storms Questions (SPOILERS) (was RE: Kal'enedral) Message-ID: <9510132356.AA28687-+AT+-baker> >Sunfalcon wrote: >> Okay, here we go. . . >> Did anyone else find the whole reaction to Florian's announcement >>a bit odd? Here we have a Companion calmly saying that he can function >>as a Master-level Mage, and, aside from Elspeth's jaw dropping, NO ONE >>SEEMS TO REALLY CARE. > >In universe, I tend to think that this sort of means that the bypass >the Companions put in around the whole idea of magic hasn't fully >disappeared yet, in spite of everything. > >>I find this very disturbing, especially the fact >>that since magic has only recently "returned" to Valdemar, Florian (a >>Mage-Gifted Companion) was born before the prohibition was lifted. >>Either the Powers That Be were able to see far enough into the future >>that they knew a Companion of these skills would be useful (ten or more >>years down the line seems like awfully powerful Foresight, though), or >>else (presumably) Mage-Gifted Companions have been running around ever >>since Vanyel died. Did Valdemar endure the loss of magic for nothing, >>since properly gifted Companions should have been able to train the >>appropriate Heralds? > >Well, a couple of things. One, Florian was young enough that it >didn't surprrise anyone that he hadn't Chosen yet, so he may be as >young as 5 or as old as 9, which, I think, would mean that he was born >when or after it became clear to Vanyel (and probably others) that the >barrier was going to come down in the face of the attacks on it from >outside. At that point, it should have been clear that MageGifted >Companions would be useful, at least to the Deity In Charge (tm). >Two, what makes you think that a Companion with the MageGift could've >trained MageGifted Heralds? IMO, we have no evidence that Companions >can or will teach their Chosen anything. Even when Rolan and Tantris >helped Kris teach Talia, they only helped, they didn't teach. This, >of course, only means that they won't, not that they wouldn't be able >to, but think of the only instance we've seen in which there's the >kind of relationship between Companion and Herald that rersembles >teacher-student: Tylendel. It's probably a bad idea to set up that >kind of imbalance in any Companion-Herald relationship... > We know there were gifted Companions as least as far back as Vanyel because Ghost was a mindhealer acording to Yfandes, who otherwise didn't say much about it other than it happened when it was needed. Vanyel was surprised, but didn't press. I took it to mean that all Companions had gifts, but tried not to let the heralds know about it. After all, Yfandes used a form of fetching to get Stefan to the gaurdpost and then somehow gave Vanyel enough extra power for a final strike. It seems to me that Companions are the guides and Helpers for the Heralds, but that Heralds have to do most of the work. Companions only interfear if they have to. If the Heralds knew about the gifts, or what the Companions knew, they'd stop depending on themselves and start asking the Companions to solve all their problems for them. So rather than the Companions playing puppetmaster, they are merly guides and "companions" for a rather difficult and typically short life. Perhaps some "deity" knew how hard it was going to be to keep Valdemar safe, what the human cost would be, and sent the Companions to make the burdan a little easier. Look how hard it is even with the Companions (and some even have more help from their lifebonded!) Colette ps- as an example of how the heralds would grow dependant on companions if they knew about their gifts, look how dependent valdemar go on herald mages and what happened to them after they disapeared. gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 17:16:46 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty's Music Message-ID: <9510140006.AA28862-+AT+-baker> >> >I haven't been able to really get into "Lovers, Lore and >> > Loss" on which Misty sings a lot. Frankly, while she writes >> > some really awesome music, her voice just isn't as good >> > as some of these other folk. Plus, since Vanyel and >> > Kero are my two favorites, obviously I like "their" music >> > best. Yah, I agree about Misty not singing that well. I can appreciate her on Heralds Harpers and Havoc because she is playing Queen Selanay and the voice seems appropriate, but it can make the songs less enjoyable to listen to. > >Actually, I think the bit about Tarma in Oathbreakers having a voice like >a long time chain smoker is a sort of in joke aimed at a particular >person! > One of the songs for Tarma on Oathbrakers wasn't sung by Fish, and doesn't have the harsh voice. This is because before her clan was slain she was supposed to have a beautiful singing voice. Afterwards it was broken. I think Fish's voice is wonderful (though harsh) once you get used to it, and its amazing on Winds Four Quarters. gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 17:27:30 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Book blurbs Message-ID: <9510140017.AA29124-+AT+-baker> >>Second: I just got my Vanyel books back and pounced on them. Midway >>through, I stopped to read and look at the cover of Magic's Pawn. I was >>disgusted all over again. First: the cover blurb is obviously insanely >>incorrect. Who writes these things? Second: Who is the naked woman? I'm >>assuming the man's face is Tylendel. Does anyone else have problems/wish >>to comment on the Vanyel covers? > > I love the covers, though I agree the blurbs are annoying (oh horrors, innacuracy!!). I think the ones for the first and second paperback are just divine ( the hardbound bookclub edition is pretty cool too.) I thought for a long time about the naked woman and came up with a few ideas. a) his mother b)melena c)the girl at the tavern on the way to haven not at all sure which one it was, but always leaned heavily on this ordering of the possibilities. I suppose she could be Gala, but she doesn't look right (from when Vanyel "saw" her as young woman.) Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 17:31:23 -0800 From: gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com (Gjuka) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: sorry, I forgot Message-ID: <9510140021.AA29176-+AT+-baker> >If non-pagans also mail me response to the survey so I have an idea of >how many pagans in relation to other religious groups... Thanks > >I\/ Catherine Osborne "After great pain, >I\/ Sundancer a formal feeling comes." >I cosborne-+AT+-sidwell.edu --Emily Dickinson >I http://www.sidwell.edu/~cosborne/ What survey? Did I miss something? I'd love to respond but I don't know what to. By the way, yes I'm pagan. Colette gjuka-+AT+-cnw.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 21:10:46 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: sorry, I forgot Message-ID: <199510140110.VAA20239-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> David K. Storrs wrote: > Personally, I'm a card-carrying atheist with strong >anti-organized-religion leanings... which is why I didn't say anything in >the recent Roman Catholism "debate". :> Totally off-topic, this reminded me of what one of my friends suggested jokingly a few years back: Imagine a militant, proselytizing (sp?) agnostic: Someone who goes door-to-door saying, "I don't know if there's a God, and neither do you." -jenneke, agnostic with Wiccan tendencies and anti-organized-religion leanings I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 12:49:46 +1000 From: John Oliver To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: physical science in Valdemar Message-ID: <199510140249.MAA04945-+AT+-gass.cc.uow.edu.au> From: "Scarlett E. Blizzard" >Bye the Bye, How do we know when we can stop being careful about >spoiling new books for people????? I don't know if there is any rule - one possibility is to wait until the paperback comes out. But that is often a year after the hard back. Perhaps 6 months is a reasonable period? >Stacy Hunt DuVall wrote: >snip ...snip.... >> Has anyone else wodered about the "level" of the sciences in >>Valdemar? We know that they have mathematicians, engineers, and a pretty >>good grasp of human anatomy and physiology Yes, I have wondered about this also. Difficult to tell without seeing the homewok assignments of the blues. But 17th century Europe had mathematicians and engineers even though most engineering was "rule of thumb". On the other hand, the analysis of "magic waves" sounds like 19th century physics. John ******************************************************** * _--_|\ | jdo-+AT+-uow.edu.au * * / \ | That's the University of Wollongong * * \_.--\_* <-- Wollongong is a city of 200,000 about * * v | 100 km south of Sydney, Australia * ******************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 00:43:01 -0400 From: "Jennifer S. Broekman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Book blurbs Message-ID: <199510140443.AAA20332-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu> Gjuka wrote: >I thought for a long time about the naked woman and came up with a few ideas. > a) his mother > b)melena > c)the girl at the tavern on the way to haven >not at all sure which one it was, but always leaned heavily on this >ordering of the possibilities. I suppose she could be Gala, but she >doesn't look right (from when Vanyel "saw" her as young woman.) Okay, okay... *What* naked woman? I just scrutinized the covers for all of my paperback copies of the _LHM_ series, and there isn't a naked woman on one of them... -jenneke I *am* family. How could I not have family values? Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully -- Geoff Marcy The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. -Alfred Kinsey broekman-+AT+-sparky.phast.umass.edu | http://www-astro.phast.umass.edu/gs/jenn.html ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 176 *********************************